The effort for E85

[BigVinnie]

Technically all of us across the United states are in a state of emergency. Gas prices are becoming rediculous. Just recently I paid $41.32 at the pump for 15 gallons of fuel, this means I paid $3.09 for 9/10 of a gallon.
The war in the middle east is a scam, and politics are still tainted with dirty blood money by the trillion dollar petroleum industry"OPEC".This war just let them steal oil from the middle eastern countries to only profit more.
The industry has lied to us for years telling us that we need EGR equipment on our vehicles in order to have a cleaner air enviornment. This is done in order to keep the tree huggers happy. At the same time it's a leech on engines that only depleats fuel faster, and gives you lower miles per gallon. So what this means is that we consume more fossil fuel than needed and we depleat the earth of it's natural resources.
We live in an era of lies and conspiracy, only to keep our own general public ignorant of the truth that would make all of our lives much easier to live by. OPEC provides these lies by paying off people in the government to provide more of there product to us the consumer.
In an effort to stop the over consumption of fuel and to have a cleaner air enviornment the state of Minnesota has made a clean air program using e85 fuel which is found here. http://www.cleanairchoice.org/outdoor/E85background.asp
Now this boggles me, I'm a Californian, I thought enviornmentalist in my state would of been the first to hop on a program like this one. My last sentence was sarcasim if you couldn't tell. OPEC pays the eviornmentalist, and the government to keep this information from you. They want every dollar you have.
Now imagine a world on e85 where hydrocarbons, and NOX emissions levels are so low that you no longer need EGR equipment or a catylitic converter, "basically the removal of all smog equipment". Imagine a world that will supply millions of jobs for the manufacturing of e85. Imagine a world, where we would all use synthetic oil at a fraction of the cost of your regular petro oil. Imagine a new economy where we would pay 85 cents a gallon at the pump, instead of my typical $3.09. Imagine a world with no more smog fee's and hasle to register your car.
The truth is out there. It is up to us to write letters to our state reps demanding the concern for cheaper alternative fuels. It is up to us to educate our parents, Friends, and family members. It is up to us to make a cleaner enviornment for our future and generations to come.
I see it like this if we don't take a stand at some point in time our future as tuners will look BLEEK. If we don't take action many of the luxuries that we take for granted will no longer exist.
I hope that this message gets through to you guy's, if you persist to do nothing about it, stop your bitching and wining why gas prices are so freakin expensive. I think I brought my point across.
I'm asking for everyone to join the National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition, there address is found here http://www.e85fuel.com/index.php .
Together we can tell our government, and OPEC to [email protected] OFF!!

Please distribute this thread outside of the 240 forums let all tuners know that there are other possibilities to our madness.

[TheSquidd]

Edit* Nvm...

[stu8319]

Great idea but what about us that can't afford a newer car that runs on that?

[Yoshi]

hence biodiesel man.
Stock in VW must be doing well :) LOL

[BigVinnie]

Great idea but what about us that can't afford a newer car that runs on that?

My understanding is that the 240 would run just fine on the E85. It is recomended for cars that run on 91 octane and higher.

[420sx]

hmm i wander whats the octane number??

[BigVinnie]

hmm i wander whats the octane number??

Well you live in Texas right? I checked the E85 web site there is a fueling station at this location if you have the chance to check it out.....
CleanFuel USA
4023 Interstate 35 North
San Antonio, TX 78219

[i8yourfwd]

hmm i wander whats the octane number??
Directly from their site:
"It has the highest oxygen content of any fuel available today, allowing it to burn more completely (cleaner) than conventional gasoline. E85 contains 80% less gum-forming compounds, like the olefins found in gasoline."

So I guess, it should be better than anything we can pump into our cars as of now.


EDIT:It's right on their site

Regarding E85 Usage in Gas Cars:
http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/faqs/misfueling.php

Cars that can Use E85:
http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/flexfuelvehicles.php

According to them it's 105 Octane.

Why it won't help the Zilvians:
http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/faqs/conversion.php

[Yoshi]

kudos on the well written pro-E85 :)

After reading over again, I felt compelled to play devil's advocate... not because I'm a dick (ok, so SOMETIMES i'm a dick...), but because some of that site's info conflicts with a study I read a few months ago... I screen cap'd the powerpoint slides on the negative sides since the positives have already been discussed.

There's NO such thing as a perfect replacement, and this is no exception, fortunately a decent percentage of the issues are economy based, and would (idealy) work themselves out over time.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not opposed to alternative fuels, far from it! I'm all about biodiesel and fuel cells, I just don't think E85 is the right choice for an en-mass conversion. Anyone who's ever worked on a long term project should know that it's worth the research and testing to do everything right the first time thru, rather than push boldly forward, consequences be damned.

Again, i'm not bashing E85, I think it has a good chance, but it'd be foolish to think there are no downsides; and it'd be a typical act of hubris for mankind to think he can forsee any issues that might arise.

(note that this is a 3rd party study done by a canadian university, unbiased as it's not the pro-OPEC groups bashing alternative fuels, nor is it sponsored by the alternative fuel movement)
http://www.360realms.com/E85/E85-0.jpg
http://www.360realms.com/E85/E85-1.jpg
http://www.360realms.com/E85/E85-2.jpg
http://www.360realms.com/E85/E85-3.jpg
http://www.360realms.com/E85/E85-4.jpg
http://www.360realms.com/E85/E85-5.jpg
http://www.360realms.com/E85/E85-6.jpg

[Var]

EGR valves save gas wanker

[i8yourfwd]

So gas still owns.. poo... still gonna be paying more at the pump than for insurance.

[BigVinnie]

The only point I was trying to bring accross is that with other fuels available, there won't be the greatest demand for fossil fuel. This will also allow for other research and developement to find other fuel resources that may be more abundant. But if we as consumers don't allow other fuel sources, the Petroleum industry will inevitably run a monopoly, and still keep fuel prices high. Why because they can and we let them, especially when we don't allow other fuel sources come into the market place.
Besides why not just make an E50. E 85 isn't that refined to run in every vehicle.

[Yoshi]

The only point I was trying to bring accross is that with other fuels available, there won't be the greatest demand for fossil fuel. This will also allow for other research and developement to find other fuel resources that may be more abundant. But if we as consumers don't allow other fuel sources, the Petroleum industry will inevitably run a monopoly, and still keep fuel prices high. Why because they can and we let them, especially when we don't allow other fuel sources come into the market place.

I couldn't agree more there, unfortunately :(

[BigVinnie]

EGR valves save gas wanker

You decrease combustion and HP with NOX gases that pass through the intake system. I don't find it saving fuel at all.

[420sx]

^ decreasing the toxin's number coming out of the exhaust

[BigVinnie]

Another epiphany I had was to get more diesels on grease, that way there would be a larger abundance of unleaded fuel on the market also decreasing the cost of petro fuels... I think I might just do this on a datsun sd22 project. Used vegetable oil comes FREE.
http://www.greasecar.com/

[Yoshi]

Another epiphany I had was to get more diesels on grease, that way there would be a larger abundance of unleaded fuel on the market also decreasing the cost of petro fuels... I think I might just do this on a datsun sd22 project. Used vegetable oil comes FREE.
http://www.greasecar.com/

That's what I was sayin man, BioDiesel is getting a following here in the PacNW (duh, of course it is... LOL!)

[KarateBoy]

Hey BigVinnie, nice to see you on Zilvia.

Also, thanks for the write up on E85 as I just found out about it 2 weeks ago. Here in Chicago I can buy 100 octane for 2.25 or so. That would be nice but sadly the 240 isn't made to run it.

Since you schooled me little bit on header I wanted to give you my insight on oil.

if we as consumers don't allow other fuel sources, the Petroleum industry will inevitably run a monopoly, and still keep fuel prices high. Why because they can and we let them, especially when we don't allow other fuel sources come into the market place.
Besides why not just make an E50. E 85 isn't that refined to run in every vehicle.

To put it bluntly, you're looking at this to simplistically. The price of gasoline is directly related to the price of crude oil. This is controlled by the market (commodity traders and so forth) through simple economics: supply and demand.

We don't have a shortage, but oil is scarce and we will one day run out of. I don't want to mention when that 1 day is as this will throw the entire point of my post off topic. Anyway, this shortage of oil has been attracting investor to the market for over a year now. As more and more investors say oil as a "safe" investment the more strength the movement, or momentum if you will, gained. For every dollar crude oil goes up, gas on the street goes up from 3 to 5 cents. There were many day where oil went up because it could. To add to this, it is difficult for many companies to just "GET" oil because of numerous enviromental reasons i.e Alaska. Many companies have to result to shipping oil from other countires, this costs money, then they had to get it refined ( there are very few refineries in the U.S), and the Uncle Sam steps in with tariffs. All this adds up. Then of course, demand always goes up in the summer.

We can't think of this as simply as, tanking up really hurts now. Imagine how badly it is cutting into other companies profit margin such as the airlines, tire companies, even coca cola.

As for the few countries that pay like $0.12/ gallon, I don't know how they pull it off :rl: but I'm sure it helps being an oil rich country unlike the U.S is.

Enough of my rabbling.

[ranisron]

there are only 4 E85 gas station here in Indiana... I live too far from the closet E85 station. :(

[CHARLIE2020]

Sorry to break it to you but cilivian's hardly know anything about team work especially the type of team work it would take, like on a global scale, highly doubt nasty civilain's could even comprehend this type of team work, we could do anything we want if we could only all work together as 1 PERIOD.

WE NEED TO BE PIMPIN OUR GOVERNMENT NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

[Tenchuu]

well I already know people that run bio diesel,and have been for years. it costs about 40-70cents a gallon to make, so is a great invstment if you have your own contracting firm where you have diesel vehicles that haul other diesel vehicles. imagine the savening when constructing a homesite that is 70 miles away, traves, landscapeing, everything just costs cents to run it. sadly I think all it takes is knowing the idea and makeing it happen. I've seen 13year old kids make this stuff in the 100s of gallon range so I'm suprised more companies don't do it. too bad it doesn't help me and my car any.

[TougeRacing]

I was getting excited too! until yoshi posted his info...damn gas is expensive.

[S14DB]

E85 burns about 20% less efficiently than gas. Any savings in cost is eaten up by MPG. You need a new fuel tank, bigger fuel pump(cause you burn more fuel), SS fuel lines and larger injectors to run Ethanol. It would cost you a lot to do the conversion and still wouldn't be any better off.

I have always wanted to get a 2.5L turbo diesel out of a UK/AU spec Pathfinder and run biodiesel.

[TheSquidd]

The answer:

ELECTRIC!

Yay for 0-60 in 4 seconds and 9 cents per mile (in CA, other states as low as 1 cent per mile)

http://www.commutercars.com/

Of course, it costs over 100,000$. Sorry, there's no alternative (price wise) to good ol' gasoline.

[S14DB]

The answer:

ELECTRIC!

Yay for 0-60 in 4 seconds and 9 cents per mile (in CA, other states as low as 1 cent per mile)

http://www.commutercars.com/

Of course, it costs over 100,000$. Sorry, there's no alternative (price wise) to good ol' gasoline.
Most of the US gets their power from coal. So, this is the most polluting car on the road.

[bgindn]

BigVinne: kudos on a good informative post.

Yoshi: "(note that this is a 3rd party study done by a canadian university, unbiased as it's not the pro-OPEC groups bashing alternative fuels, nor is it sponsored by the alternative fuel movement)" = There is NO such thing as unbiased. Someones paying for something. always.

[HYPERION-X]

E85 burns about 20% less efficiently than gas. Any savings in cost is eaten up by MPG. You need a new fuel tank, bigger fuel pump(cause you burn more fuel), SS fuel lines and larger injectors to run Ethanol. It would cost you a lot to do the conversion and still wouldn't be any better off.

I have always wanted to get a 2.5L turbo diesel out of a UK/AU spec Pathfinder and run biodiesel.

Many of you need to do some reading about E85. Go ahead and try running it in your car and see what happens. There are many reason why it won't work like the ECU not being programmed for it, etc. It's all on the site.

[Yoshi]

BigVinne: kudos on a good informative post.

Yoshi: "(note that this is a 3rd party study done by a canadian university, unbiased as it's not the pro-OPEC groups bashing alternative fuels, nor is it sponsored by the alternative fuel movement)" = There is NO such thing as unbiased. Someones paying for something. always.

wtf. Read more carefully. You even quoted me.
I defined in what way I meant "unbiased". I never said it was completely w/o opinion, i said it was not in either the alternative fuel, nor the Pro-OPEC camps...

There is NO such thing as unbiased.
Perhaps I was expecting too much of Zilvians. I expect that most people who have at least finish jr.high, are intelligent enough to realize that EVERYTHING is biased to some degree. It's a given; hence why I defined what was meant by my statement.... but thanks for the condescending tone anyhow Captain Obvious.

[North240]

Bio diesel needs to catch on in New England, i dream of a day where irs cheaper to run a f250 diesel to work everyday, rather than my 240.

[BigVinnie]

I see it like this. The only reason why ethanol isn't highly produced is only because people are scared that we will run out of a food source. I say bull crap. Hydroponics and genetic altering says otherwise. Take alaska for example, no one really lives there. There is plenty of room for agriculture. It stays sunny all summer long 24/7, the wierdest and hugest mutated crops come out of Alaska.
People say you cant run a 240 on E85, if you advance your timing to the distributor the full 8degress it will defenitely run. It would defenitely work for me I'm upgrading my internals to 11.1:1 anyways it would be great for me. Cmon guys use your imagination a little. You still won't get the best gas mileage, but if they can get it to a $1.00 a gallon, I'm sold.

[S14DB]

Good luck when all the Aluminum corrodes and the rubber seals decinigrate.

[BigVinnie]

Good luck when all the Aluminum corrodes and the rubber seals decinigrate.

There are non corrosive agents, I use them all the time in my Aluminum airless spray gun.

[BigVinnie]

Marijauna makes more fuel energy than corn......
http://www.rense.com/general67/FORD.HTM

[S14DB]

There are non corrosive agents, I use them all the time in my Aluminum airless spray gun.
This is your car not some spray gun. I don't know why you are comparing the two.

[WideS13]

Go get bicycles you bums.. Our gas price is still way cheaper that almost every other developed country. I'm sure alot of the military folks on here can tell you that. Sure, you can get $0.14 gas in somewhere places like Kuwait or almost anwhere else that you wouldn't want to be. The government is not trying to conspire against you and take your money. Alot of other countrys have huge vehicle taxes and fines depending what kind of vehicle/displacment you have. Just be gald that you can drive a 240 on a budget that would get you a shitcan in other countrys and that you can drive down the highways without having to pay to just be on the road.

[Var]

You decrease combustion and HP with NOX gases that pass through the intake system. I don't find it saving fuel at all.


EGR systems dont work all the time, only when the engine isn't under major load. Current EGR systems can recirc 30 or more %. EGR gasses are inert, therefore they just take up space in the combustion chamber. If there is 30% less flammable air, the engine needs 30% less gas at that moment.

[thepest]

So gas still owns.. poo... still gonna be paying more at the pump than for insurance.

LOL Top fuel drags use E85. I belive there are some people that have already converted their sr20 swaps to use E85. I am looking into how to do it. I belive you need to run bigger injectors, an emanage system, and a few other things. Cost you in parts but in the long run I can see it saving you money.

[McRussellPants]

Technically all of us across the United states are in a state of emergency.


lol, propaganda city, population retard hippy with weak mind.

E85 is totally worthless for saving the enviroment.
Its also completely unsustanible,

lol Top Fuel Drag cars use E85.

hahahahahahahahahahaha

you guys are stupid fuckers, worry about the gigantic oil/coal plant powering your house, not your shitty car sipping corn.

[kouki_s14]

year and a half old

[wootwoot]

and I still want e85.

[The Riot Hero]

HAHAHA, ignorance like whoa!!!!! E85 for a daily driver... meh, E85 for a performance car, fuck yeah! you need very little fuel system modification on newer cars (1990 and up) and it turbo cars LOVE the shit. E85 stations have increased by 5 times since this post was started. do some more research guys! consider it cheap race gas. it is roughly 20 cents cheaper than 87 octane here in the detroit area, i will be using it in my race car this season.

[wootwoot]

Shit. I'll just swap the motor out in my car for a turbo busa motor so that way I can actually take use of the gas mileage increase while off throttle

[20 til 3]

god SD sucks...every gas station i go to i can get e-85...sum bitch


i'm planning on gettin me some 720cc injectors so i can run e85 though in my sr20 this summer....nothing like higher octane at a cheaper price

[chmercer]

who bumped this donk

corngas blows

[wootwoot]

Why though?.....

[The Riot Hero]

acctually corngas rocks, colder intake temp, you can run way more timing, way more boost and higher compression. and its cheaper than 87 octane, if you compare it to running 93 octane i bet the cost would be roughly the same. burns cooler so EGts and coolant temps are lower, next to no emissions, and burns way cleaner, no carbon build up in the motor.

think whatever youd like, but in states with easy access to E85 it IS the way to go.

[Jonnie Fraz]

Ok some bad news...CARB has not approved any kit to convert your vehicle over to E85. So even if you did it you could be puffing pure O2 and drinking water out the tail pipe and you would still fail smog. Nice Huh! Alternative fuels have been a back burner project of mine for like 15 years.
Here is some food for thought...What would happen to all the smog check stations if all cars in California suddenly stopped producing smog, Not that e85 is perfect mind you. Think about all the people that make emissions equipment. Please don't get me wrong, I have a five year old daughter and I would like her to be able to breath clean air. I truly believe that Oil executives would sell their childrens eyes if they could get the right price.
Here is some more... I had a 1962 GMC pickup that weighed like twice as much as my 2000 silverado. The GMC got like 16 miles to the gallon, my Silverado gets like 16mpg...so in 38 years we still cant get a truck to get better milage...BS
Oil has the word by the short and curlies, and I don't see them letting go any time soon.

[DJ_Sunrise]

this threads sorta old :D

-Bart

[S13Zilvia_fan]

I dont see how we are complaining about 3.09 a gallon prices when people ALL over the world have been paying almost DOUBLE (In places like europe for example), people in Catalina Island have been paying 3.00 plus for YEARS now, its no big deal, but thats just my 2 cents. And the whole "OPEC is a conspiracy" theory just weakens your argument

[KA-T_240]

E85 is Ok, but it take alot to change over, and tune for it. I friend has a flex fuel vehilce, made a trip one way on 87 regular gas got 21mpg, on the way back ran e85 and got 15mpg.

For performance vehicles its awomse. there is a local guy making over 900whp on his mustang with E85.

Research this stuff before you try it. If anyone does try to put e85 in there stock 240, or even sr'd car with no mods, I want to see what happens.

[chmercer]

if you are using it for a daily its stupid because you get terrible mileage

if you are using it for performance wow wee you think they just discovered ethanol has a high octane rating? run toluene or methanol or something if you are going to dick with redoing all your fuel shit

[wootwoot]

Well it isnt to terrible for a daily. We just need to make it cost a little bit less and succumb to small turbo motors. If you're car had persay a turbo 1.5 liter 4 it'd be good. Pushin like 30pounds of boost and some trick ass turbo setup for as little lag as possible. It'd only be really bad to use in the engines we have now because they are much larger. Using e85 would allow small ass turbo motors so that way you could take care of the gas mileage.

Its more of a pro environment fuck you to the oil companies too. Those bastards can lick my ass.

[Tenchuu]

just bumping this as an example not to make outragous chlaims that then end up being false in the long run.

e10 mandated ethanol= erode every thing, turns into get, and gets on average 20-30% worse fuel mileage while reducing fuel costs $0.00 cents per gallon. it's so bad that Oregon that just mandated the stuff about a year ago is now getting rid of it due to customer outrage.