Fairly aggressive street alignment

[upSLIDEdown]

Ok, so I'm getting ready to put my car back together and I'll need an alignment when I do. I want this to be fairly aggressive, but I don't wanna be killing tires either. This is for an S13 Fastback. It will mainly be spirited street driving for the time being. Just want something that will give me good all around performance. Here are the specs:

Apex N1 coilovers w/camber plates(F)
Tein HA coilovers (R)
NISMO Front LCAs
SPL TC Rods
JIC RUCAs
Power Trix Toe Rods
stock traction rods/R LCAs
Whiteline rear sway bar
Urethane bushings everywhere in the rear
Subframe spacers

18x8.5+25 (F)
18x9.5 +25 (R)

I'm planning on going pretty low. At least an inch lower than my AGX/Sportlines got me, if not more. Basically as low as I can stand it and still be able to drive the car around (will have Origin aero too :drool: )

I'm pretty sure I want 0 toe all around, I'm more curious what you guys reccomend for caster and camber. I was thinking somewhere around the -2-2.5 (F) and -1.5-2 (R) mark on camber, but I dunno. Gimme some input.

Bryan

[lilredstiffy]

I don't think that would be bad, but if you wanted to you could run slightly more camber in the front. I have -3.2 on my car, tire wear is almost even..

caster somewhere around 7

[upSLIDEdown]

Really? -3.2? Hmm... What are you running in the rear? I will also probably need some camber to fit these wheels too, I know that. I will roll the fronts, but don't really want to mess with trying to pull them since they're so flimsy. I don't mind rolling and pulling the rears if I need to, I kinda like the pulled look anyway. A friend of mine has an Eastwood roller I can use.

[Dousan_PG]

i run -3 daily front, -1.3 rear

i would do -2 -1.5 f/r should be ok.
caster tad over stock
toe 0

thats not bad.

fender rollers are stupid and for pussies
use a hammer.

i have a fender roller, rarely ever use it now. had more luck and fun w/ ahmmers and propane torches. save your time and money.

ALWAYS roll your fenders. kids stuff and takes less then an hour to do all 4
no fender lining too.

[Grandpa]

No fender lining is stupid and for pussies.
just modify it. kids stuff and takes less than an hour to do

[upSLIDEdown]

HAHA. I'm planning on rolling my fenders, just don't know yet if I'll have to do any pulling. Planning on cutting the top of the liners out, but that's it. I still want to keep water, dirt, and grime to a minimum. What's stock caster on an S13, anyone know? I've heard anywhere from 5-8...

[MakotoS13]

positive caster is your friend. i'd run anywhere from +8-10 degrees if i were you especially if stock is 5-8. if stock is 8 i'm running 10. it increases striaght line stability while increasing negative camber when the wheels are turned (more gripping patch).

[Dousan_PG]

sorry i dont worry too much about my show car engine bay
fender lining only rubs with various wheel and offsets and a very lowered car.

as far as keeping dirt and water out, ive never ever ever had a problem over 3 years w/ lining on s13 and s14s

[upSLIDEdown]

sorry i dont worry too much about my show car engine bay
fender lining only rubs with various wheel and offsets and a very lowered car.

as far as keeping dirt and water out, ive never ever ever had a problem over 3 years w/ lining on s13 and s14s

I'm not worried about that. I'm more worried about throwing wet road grime up into the fender/door area and rust starting to form.

[JaeTea]

I'm pretty sure I want 0 toe all around, I'm more curious what you guys reccomend for caster and camber. I was thinking somewhere around the -2-2.5 (F) and -1.5-2 (R) mark on camber, but I dunno. Gimme some input.

Bryan

0' toe

caster ~8 or higher. Mine is at ~7.5-8. Straight line driving run 8 or higher.

Run 2' or higher camber in the rear it will give you more grip. Then run about a degree or so more in front.

Since you live in VA try to keep the fender lining in..or just don't drive in the rain or snow. :p

[upSLIDEdown]

Yeah, I'm trying to keep as much fender liner as possible, but after the car is done (paint/motor) the car won't get driven in really nasty weather. I have a 4x4 to drive in the winter. Prolly won't drive it in the rain if possible ;).

[lilredstiffy]

Really? -3.2? Hmm... What are you running in the rear? I will also probably need some camber to fit these wheels too, I know that. I will roll the fronts, but don't really want to mess with trying to pull them since they're so flimsy. I don't mind rolling and pulling the rears if I need to, I kinda like the pulled look anyway. A friend of mine has an Eastwood roller I can use.

I'm running about -2.1 in the rear, its ok- closer to -1.5-1.75 would probably be optimal for daily

only thing about a lot of camber up front does compromise your braking so be careful driving around at first

also everyone saying 'more caster'- those wheels..on s13...and low? you are going to have to super mega beat the fuck out of your fender wells. i like stockish caster, makes the car feel lighter/more tossable

oh, and fender liners=not gonna happen unless you are 4x4

[upSLIDEdown]

Yeah, I'm planning on having to pound the seams flat up front. I remember seeing a pic of what areas needed to be beat on up front, does anyone know where that pic can be found. Just trying to get a good idea. I'm hoping to at least be able to keep the backs and maybe the fronts of the fender liners, just to keep water out of the nooks/crannies. I probably won't be driving the car a lot in the rain anyway, if at all. So I guess the general consensus on camber is maybe -2 or maybe -2.5 up front and -1.5 in the rear will be good and stockish caster, maybe +1 or 2. Caster is measured in degrees, right?

Bryan

[MakotoS13]

only thing about a lot of camber up front does compromise your braking so be careful driving around at first

how do you figure? it isn't reducing contact patch and actually increases contact patch in corners. if anything it'd make slowing in corners dramatically better my increasing negative camber while turning.

also everyone saying 'more caster'- those wheels..on s13...and low? you are going to have to super mega beat the fuck out of your fender wells. i like stockish caster, makes the car feel lighter/more tossable

his wheels dont mean jack to me. i'm running more caster due to the fact that i dont like how tossable the car is. its TOO tossable for my tastes, not enough resistance especially when going really fast (which i tend to do often). i plan on running tons of caster with slight rear toe in and at least one degree negative camber all around.

[lilredstiffy]

The more camber the more the car's weight is resting on the inside of the cars contact patch. Corners yes, better, but straight line traffic type brake slamming is not as effective and its pretty easy to lock up the fronts.

Here is the problem with more caster, for example I am running a 18x9 wheel with effective +7 offset, 7* caster and 225/40, and my fender well had to be pounded to the red line to clear completely for balls out driving. More caster/bigger tires/lower offset or wider wheels/ would need you to resort to the optional gold lines. I'm not saying its a bad idea at all to run more caster, just be aware of what is necessary.
http://members.cox.net/walton90/caster.jpg

pic courtesy of doriftoslut? i believe

[upSLIDEdown]

I am running a 18x9 wheel with effective +7 offset, 7* caster and 225/40, and my fender well had to be pounded to the red line to clear completely for balls out driving. More caster/bigger tires/lower offset or wider wheels/ would need you to resort to the optional gold lines. I'm not saying its a bad idea at all to run more caster, just be aware of what is necessary.


I won't be that aggressive. I'm gonna be running an 18x8.5 +25 with a 225/40 on it up front. Still planning on having to pound fenders though, so thanks for the pic. I'll probably run 7-9* caster, assuming 7* is stock.

[JaeTea]

FYI,

See that big wire harness in the pic...make sure you're not rubbing it.

Don't ask how I know. :ugh:

[upSLIDEdown]

FYI,

See that big wire harness in the pic...make sure you're not rubbing it.

Don't ask how I know. :ugh:

Yeah, I know, I gotta ziptie it up out of the way like that pic

[kazuo]

Perhaps the user(s) should mention whether their primary usage of the car is drift, grip, straight-line or a "compromise" setup.

Then these numbers would make more sense, esp. for the original poster.

[DoriftoSlut]

That was my car pre-fender modification. Like mylilredstiffy said, I beat the front weel well out till almost that red line... I have more to go still. It will rub on my 17s cause my car is LOW. if you rock 4x4 then you'll be ok. But even the original poster, wanting to run 225/40/18 is going to have a way taller tire than me with a 235/40/17. So you'll hav to bang more or not be as low.

In addition, I actually need to bang the REAR of the wheel well with my 17x9 -6 (20mm more than what i have now). Because I'm not running enough caster. Stock S-Chassis caster is right about 6.5 deg. I am running maybe 7.5-8ish right now. I think another 1/2 degree or 1 degree will get me clear of the rear, but I'll need ot bang the fronts more.


When I ran 215/40 on my 17x9 +10s I had about +9.5-10 degrees caster... WHOA. It was nice and stable but at full lock i was just about scraping my wheel lip on the GROUND!


I suggest the same alignment as Dousan said. Its good for a mostly street car. On my personal car, i have all sorts of toe preference and camber and shiite.

[Replicant_S14]

how do you figure? it isn't reducing contact patch and actually increases contact patch in corners. if anything it'd make slowing in corners dramatically better my increasing negative camber while turning.


You should be done braking before you heel the thing over into a corner anyway.

I'm pretty sure I want 0 toe all around. I was thinking somewhere around the -2-2.5 (F) and -1.5-2 (R) mark on camber, but I dunno. Gimme some input.

That's what I run. It isn't quite enough camber to even out temps on a track day (for me) but it's close enough for something that's still livable as a commuter.

[Var]

0º toe is stupid and is for pussies

[black s13]

ive driven my car in VA for 2 years with no fender liners, all it does is get the doors a little wet... oh darn. im running pretty much exactly what dousan said, except for more rear camber (due to wheels, not by choice)

as a side note, where in virginia are you?

[upSLIDEdown]

Lynchburg, VA

[240trainee]

Rockin the VA, lol. When I pull off the fenders this weekend or next to install the new coils and move harness/ pound out seams, I'm gonna check the paint between car and fender, and treat with por-15 or whatever the stuff is called, to be safe. I pulled the fender liners last fall, we'll see how the car likes snow/ excessive rain. It was fun on the old car because with a smic, when you go through a puddle, the water steams up, creating a small cloud, and people think you blew something, lol.

[upSLIDEdown]

Yeah, I'll probably coat everything under the fenders with either spray undercoating or Herculiner Bedliner (I have some leftover from where I covered my Sidekick in it). I still want to leave the back section of liner if possible though. But back on topic...

-2.5 (F) and -1.5 (R)
or
-2 (F) and -1.5 (R)

The whole braking issue makes sense (in a straight line) and I'll have 30mm Alum. Z brakes on all four corners with a Z MC so braking will be quick and to the point as it is. I don't want to exxagerate that with too much camber, but I also want good grip in the turns. I don't know if -2.5 up front will be too much or not.

[MakotoS13]

You should be done braking before you heel the thing over into a corner anyway.

oh, you've never braked during a corner? oh, well in that case feel free to educate us as to how you avoid all unplanne obstacles without braking ever while making a turn.

The more camber the more the car's weight is resting on the inside of the cars contact patch. Corners yes, better, but straight line traffic type brake slamming is not as effective and its pretty easy to lock up the fronts.

camber is not caster dude. positive caster has like no negative effects unless you dial way too much in.

[axiomatik]

camber is not caster dude. positive caster has like no negative effects unless you dial way too much in.

Very insightful: camber is not caster. Perhaps you should look back to post #14 and you will see that he was talking about camber in the first place. You were the one who mistook it for caster.

[lilredstiffy]

yea makoto learn to read and stop all the hatin'!

[Ian]

i'm running more rear camber then front...perhaps this is why i have front grip problems at high speed...and i know how to use weight transfer...i'm talking about after i'm sideways, the front starts to tear loose in 3rd gear

[DoriftoSlut]

Sounds more like driving style/front tires. Possibly camber settings up front. Have any pictures of your drifting? Your camber and caster should be set together with your tire size so that you have full contact patch on your loaded tire at full lock. You can also check your tire wear. Where is i most worn?

[alkemyst]

From Whiteline:

Touring:
Front:
Camber: -1.5 deg
Caster: L+7.5/R+7.0 deg
Toe: 0.0mm
Rear:
Camber: -1.0 deg
Caster: n/a
Toe: 1mm in

Sport:
Front:
Camber: -2.0 deg
Caster: L+7.5/R+7.0 deg
Toe: 0.0mm
Rear:
Camber: -1.25 deg
Caster: n/a
Toe: 0.5mm in

Factory:
Front:
Camber: -1.50 to 0.0 deg (-0.75 deg nominal)
Caster: 6.00 - 7.50 deg (6.75 deg nominal)
Toe: 1.5 - 3.5 mm in, (2.5 mm in nominal)
Rear:
Camber: -1.67 to -0.67 deg (-1.17 deg nominal)
Caster: not adjustable
Toe: 0.0 - 5.0 mm in, (2.5 mm in nominal)