Complete brake fluid/system changeover

[upSLIDEdown]

Ok guys,

I searched and also found the Brake FAQ posted my Meph... Still haven't found the answer I'm looking for. Right now I have a completely stock braking system. I'm getting ready to switch over to Z Brakes front and rear (30mm Alum.), Z Master cylinder, Stainless Lines, Brembo slotted rotors, Metal Master Pads, new fluid. My brake fluid has never been changed since I've owned the car (due to my laziness...haha, and the fact that they work great). I want to get all the fluid out of the system and use ATE Super Blue.

Someone that has actually done it, how did you go about doing this?

Since I'm changing all 4 lines/calipers and the master cylinder, should I..

A) Bleed ALL the fluid out first, then change everything over and fill it up/bleed air out.

B) Something else... lol

I really need input here from some of you experienced guys out there on this one...

Thanks guys!
Bryan

**Edit** I'm also probably gonna add Speed Bleeders too **Edit**

[Nostradamus]

Just change everything out first. Then when you start bleeding start with the caliper furthest from the MC till you see blue. Then continue around the whole car. You don't need speed bleeders it takes 15 minutes to do it regular, all you need is two people.

[upSLIDEdown]

I know I don't neeeeed speed bleeders, but they make things a lot easier and faster. And 9/10 times I don't have another person to help bleed them, so I'll getting speed bleeders to make it easy.

That was my other option, to go ahead and change all the lines/calipers/MC...then install the new MC with Ate Super Blue and bleed till I get blue. My only concern was making a huge mess changing calipers/lines with fluid still in there.

Keep the input coming guys!
Bryan

[kandyflip445]

Dump everything you can out of the lines. Change everything. Then bleed as per other instructions.

[upSLIDEdown]

Dump everything you can out of the lines. Change everything. Then bleed as per other instructions.

Meaning bleed till the MC and lines are all dry???

[kandyflip445]

Bleed? No.

Open the calipers and hook a hose up that drains into a container. Pump all the fluid you can out. Then replace the parts you want and refill the system. Then bleed the system.

[upSLIDEdown]

Sorry, yeah I meant pump, don't know why I said bleed. That's what I originally thought, but my dad was saying he'd leave the fluid in the lines and do like Nosterdomis said...change then bleed till I get new fluid coming out. My worry was if I pump EVERYTHING out of the system, then refill and bleed it, is it going to take a lot to get all the air out...

Bryan

[kandyflip445]

It probably will. But what can you do. lol

[upSLIDEdown]

DAMNIT! LOL

That kinda what I figured. That's one reason I wondered if leaving the fluid in while changing would help. Since the lines would be mostly full of fluid except what dripped out of the ends, there wouldn't be a lot of room for air. Then just bleed till I see blue. I dunno... Anyone that's actually done this one way or the other have any other input...

Thanks everyone!
Bryan

[kandyflip445]

You could do it that way but you wouldn't get all the old fluid out as easy.

[upSLIDEdown]

Why wouldn't I? I guess it would take more fluid to get it ALL changed over, but it would prolly be better than trying to get all the air out... I dunno. I'll just wait for more input. LOL

Bryan

[kandyflip445]

The old fluid will mix with the new fluid. That's why I'd just pump the old out and then put all new in.

[infinitexsound]

id just bleed all 4 at the same time........ just drain crack open the bleeders..... pump old fluid... with the brake pedal then add new fluid let it drip and then start pumping adding and tighten the bleeders....

[kandyflip445]

I pumped all of mine today and replaced it with Valvoline since it's NEVER been changed. It took 1 big bottle. ;) Feels better too. My drivers side rear brake line isn't looking too hot though so I think I may upgrade to some SS lines soon.

[upSLIDEdown]

id just bleed all 4 at the same time........ just drain crack open the bleeders..... pump old fluid... with the brake pedal then add new fluid let it drip and then start pumping adding and tighten the bleeders....

So would you pump all fluid out first, then change over calipers/lines/MC and then add new fluid and bleed?

[upSLIDEdown]

I pumped all of mine today and replaced it with Valvoline since it's NEVER been changed. It took 1 big bottle. ;) Feels better too. My drivers side rear brake line isn't looking too hot though so I think I may upgrade to some SS lines soon.

So did you pump out every last bit of fluid first, then refill with new?? Was it a bitch to get all the air out?

Bryan

[kandyflip445]

HAHA! No. lol

I filled the MC opened the bleeder valve on the farthest caliper and pumped fluid out, keeping the MC full. I went all around. LOL. Seriously. You can do somewhat of the same thing pumping out the air. It will take more fluid though.

[upSLIDEdown]

Gotcha

Any more input on this???

Bryan

[Nostradamus]

Just do it!!

[Stock-S13]

Easy.

1: swap all of your chit.
2: place speed bleeders on calipers.
3: start bleeding until new fluid prudges from line.
4: do all 4 sides and drive.
5: punch yourself in the nuts for asking such a commonly answered question. I want pics, you can be as cool as the dude from Nico rapping. Or MOSH HIRL!

PS: keep MC reservoir level with fluid. 3-4 pumps more Fluid, or as you see fit.

[infinitexsound]

word do all ur shit, then crack open all 4 bleeders and start pumpin, till everything is gone.... then start adding new fluid.. till u see it start drippin then add some more and start pumpin... would be a good idea if u have a friends help..... and u know the car should be up in the air on all 4 corners... with the wheels off...

[kandyflip445]

You know. I can't believe I forgot about this. They make caps for the hardlines when you take stuff like calipers and rubber lines off. You take the rubber line off and quickly place the little rubber/vinyl cap on the hardline. :P

[Jung918]

when you take off your old rubber lines, most of the fluid will come out. I would suggest not to bleed all the fluid then replace the parts if you have abs. remember to prime the master cylinder before install. also, you have use a clear tube over the bleeder to change the brake fluid.

[upSLIDEdown]

I would suggest not to bleed all the fluid then replace the parts if you have abs.

I don't have ABS...but what would it matter?

remember to prime the master cylinder before install.

How would I do this???

also, you have use a clear tube over the bleeder to change the brake fluid.

What do you mean? Normally you would run a tube off the bleeder into a container when you bleed brakes... Is this what you're refering to?

Bryan

[Phlip]

What do you mean? Normally you would run a tube off the bleeder into a container when you bleed brakes... Is this what you're refering to?

Bryan
I believe that was what he was referring to, unfortunately he is not completely correct... It is SUGGESTED that you use a clear tube, but I have a length of black vacuum line that I used to do mine, and I just made sure to keep bleeding until I was satisfied, went through a lot of fluid doing so, but I haven't died as a result of bad brakes.

[upSLIDEdown]

It is SUGGESTED that you use a clear tube

The reason a clear tube is suggested is so you can see the air bubbles, but as far as function, as long as it doesn't have any cracks/holes in it... a tube is a tube is a tube is a tube

Bryan

[S14DB]

Is this rocket science?
http://www.mityvac.com/hq_images/MV6830.jpg
My favortite toy. http://www.mityvac.com/pages/products_bcbe.asp

[Phlip]

The reason a clear tube is suggested is so you can see the air bubbles, but as far as function, as long as it doesn't have any cracks/holes in it... a tube is a tube is a tube is a tube

Bryan
Oh, I was well aware of the reason for the suggestion of clear tube, but at the end of the day, we reach the same conclusion, that a tube is a tube, and I happened to have what I had laying around for use and it was the right size.

[upSLIDEdown]

Is this rocket science?

Not everyone has a vacuum bleeder... And if it's not rocket science, please give me your opinion on whether I should pump out all the old fluid first, then change everything over and add new fluid/bleed, or change everything over first, then change/bleed old fluid for new. Have you swapped an entire brake system before? If so, what did you do first?

Bryan

[Stock-S13]

OMFG. Use my list, no bleeding prior, you have to get fluid back into the lines anyway.

Lay down a a piece of cardboard, and let it spill.

Yes, I have changed my brake system to Z32 stuff.

[Phlip]

Not everyone has a vacuum bleeder... And if it's not rocket science, please give me your opinion on whether I should pump out all the old fluid first, then change everything over and add new fluid/bleed, or change everything over first, then change/bleed old fluid for new. Have you swapped an entire brake system before? If so, what did you do first?

Bryan
pump out as much of the old fluid as you can... change everything, bleed the system, starting with the furthest from the BMC (passenger rear) and bleed til you see blue fluid, repeat at every corner working your way closer to the MC.

... then, if you're me, you will bleed the system AGAIN to be sure. Sure, it wastes fluid, but a few bucks for brake fluid costs less then my ass or my peace of mind.

[kandyflip445]

^Pretty much what everyone is saying. A can of ATE super blue isn't more than 20 dollars so it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

[upSLIDEdown]

Yeah, $$$ isn't the issue, I was just wondering which way is easier... Seems like everyone says to pump out old, change, refill, bleed. So I guess that's what I'll do. I ordered the Super Blue from SPL yesterday anyway. Got 2 cans. Any clue how much fluid is in the clutch system? I ordered a stainless clutch line too, figured I'd change out the fluid in there too.

Thanks for all the input guys!
Bryan

[kandyflip445]

The clutch system doesn't have much at all. 2 bottles will most likely be enough for both systems unless you spill some.

[upSLIDEdown]

Cool, I was hoping 2 cans would be enough. Each can is 1 liter, so we'll hope so anyway. If not, guess I'll just have to order another. Think I'm gonna replace the clutch master/slave cylinder while I'm at it...

Bryan

[kandyflip445]

If you haven't done it yet. Check out this thread about the MC.

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=31732

[upSLIDEdown]

Actually, I hadn't run across that thread, but I was just reading about that in my FSM yesterday. HAHA Thanks for the link though!

Bryan