air spray gun q

[snp_ethan]

well, after seeing my paint and coating fade like butter on a hot toast. i've decided on painting my car. now I've heard it's a biatch to prep, but since almost everynoe who reads this, I love my car so much that I dont care.

but then I have two problems.
1)i know nothing about painting
2) i need to get some frame work done

so if anybody could help me out with the spray gun, which ones are good or any tips would be greatly appreciated.

[infinitexsound]

hahahahahhahahahha good question search post by me about autobody.... question answered

if you've never painted a car before or done any sort of spraying, good luck with spraying paint or anykind of clear.... theres others things u have to observe other just then pulling a trigger...

frame problems... take ur car to a frame and alignment shop....
paint problems and ur cheap... well maaco single stage solid color.. no work involved... just some cash... save ur self some headaches and take my advice..

[Blues13]

how bout just prepping it yourself and have a pro paint it?

[snp_ethan]

prepping it myself and then taking it to a pro sounds like a good idea. but for some reason there is something the back of my mind that tells me no.
I really dont know what it is, but from the logical point of view doesnt sound bad.

(that was for blues13)

and for infinitexsound, well maaco single stage solid color. so what is that? is that some kind of paint? or is it mixed with clear coating? or donno ., I mean my cloating is faded, but the base is ok for now, kinda.
and not only that I got some parts that I have to paint anyway. (skirts, fenders, wing) so I was thinking i could try on those, practice on those first and then try it on the whole car..

and for the frame... well is just the passenger front corner. its not major, but is jsut hte steal piece that goes behind the hlite assembly. and a little bit of the big part that creates the chamber for the tire.
so its not major but it will prolly bring me some problems when it comes to put in the new fender(which I have to paint)

[infinitexsound]

post pics of paint and problem areas, and i will tell u best ways of getting it fixed.. i have some tools at my house, but too bad ur in LA, i have tools basically to get the bolt holes aligned and gaps fitted correctly but one thing i lack is a frame machine.. but i have things like a portable and slide hammer... they do have frame slide hammers but i just dont feel the necessity to buy one...

what is maaco? well maaco or miracle is a autobody shop, reason why theyre such an abundance of them is because of their price and how quickly they get things done..but for quality i can assure u its not that great but can be corrected, i will tell u how..

reason why their cheap is because they use single stage paint.. search single stage, but i have been known that they use 2 stage also, which is base and clear...... reason why i say single stage is because of the affordable price.....

preppinng well u can prep ur self if u OWN a compressor and a DA.. i would not prep my car by hand... its stupid and slow and long and dumb.....if u use a DA quality of prep is alot better plus the labor isnt as intensive as doing things by hand trying to feather out ur edges....chances are if u dont do a good prep, its not gonna have the adhesion... u need to have...

but heres a big tip..... go to a body shop and ask to talk to the painter and see if hes looking for a side job, if he is then there u go cheap price. ask him how much he would charge for a complete. and acknowledge the fact that you will supply the paint material.. which will greatly lower the price by about 500... its up to u, at what stage of paint u would want him to apply, single being the cheapest tri-coat would be the highest.. 2nd stage would be the median but the quality of 2 stage is alot better then using single... single stage solid colors can be corrected... but not metallic single stage

if hes not looking for a side job... but ur gonna put the work thru the same shop, tell him youd be willing to give him some extra cash to layout the paint good....... and hopefully he'll say yes... but dont give him the money till u see the car when its done.... its all about hustling man...

so check out the work that the shop does when ur there getting a quote or what ever.... look at the bodywork look at the paint and check out how the blends are... that would tell u if its a good shop or not... and check the gaps..work habits... if you dont feel right about putting ur car thru a shop that doesnt fit ur standards then hey its not a bad thing..

here's also a good tip for 2 stage paint.... white and black are the cheapest solid colors to get...if u get a gallon of say dupont b/w base... that makes 2 gallons which is more then enough to paint all ur parts and car, and have extra for the future... and buy some pearl paste like house of kolors... its about 60 bucks..try that out and see if it comes to ur liking throwing some pearl in ur paint just makes the car have some individuality. and ask for a test panel to see, just so u know what it would like before its painted..

good luck and dont do anything stupid...post pics

[Blues13]

good luck and dont do anything stupid...post pics


I think he means no rattlecans.. we don't want to see another rattlecan thread. :D

[infinitexsound]

lol thats right ken knows whats sup....... ayy ken u gonna be at altamont anytime soon?

[snp_ethan]

humm good post.well, I appreciate you help, and you are giving me good ideas, but the thing is that I would like to actually work on the car myself. Since I got lots of time, a compressor and not much money(and of course not much experience either)

I spent a whole day looking at some people prepping a couple of cars. so I think I could get a hang of it. but my major problem then becomes the painting in itself.

"if u OWN a compressor and a DA"

ok I got the compressor but donno what the DA is, if you could clarify on that, it would be great.

I was thinking about doing three layers of base(black, Hk3 or kh3, whatever it is) and 3 layers of clear.
Ive done some research on SATAJET spray guns, but those are a lil outta my budget. so Im gonna keep on working on those.. as for the damage on the frame, I'll post pix later when I get a chance to take them. until then thanx 4 d info

[infinitexsound]

i own a 300 dollar devilbiss gun, blah wish i never spent the money on it.... but oh well i own it so what...

DA is a orbital sander. if you wanna buy one dont buy a crappy one... buy a good one.. best bang for the buck is either a IR(ingersol-rand) or a dynabrade.... u know once u start buying tools your gonna have to do some work to pay it off.. cause they are kinda pricey but well worth the money... with prepping that will be another post... but honestly if youd like to get into prepping be prepared to work ur ass off... im just letting u know its not as easy as it looks...

How BIG is your compressor... because it takes a large compressor to keep up with a DA, my old shop i worked at had 2 large ones... even those couldnt keep up with 8 DA's going at the same time..
but since u want to prep it your self your gonna buy tools and your gonna buy DA sandpaper... and that means more $$$..im not knocking on electric sanders those can work also...

if u feel like u dont understand what im talkin about as in tools.. feel free to google the word..just so u know

this is a DA
http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/media/TN-AP-3022.jpg

[snp_ethan]

mm ok .. im reading you last post about what the DA is after sanding one fender.. i wet sanded it with 600 got rid of almost all the coating, got to the baseand at some (1or two spots) to the primer. so, i was told that getting there was enough. so I stopped there.

Then I went looking around for the other fender so that I could check something on it to discover a elictric sand machine, the only thing is that this one looks like an iron, the one you would iron your clothes with... I thought werd.. but oh well.,.. since it's there I might as well try to get the sand paper for it.

oh yeah, regarding the compressor, this thing is pretty big actually the tank it has, could easily fit around 50 gallons of volume...

so after i get some stuff done I will post pictures of my progress, until then, I apologize for the unexistant pictures.


so, infinitesound, i was told that I woudl have to sand with 1500 after i coated very lightly and then buff it so that I would get that smooth finish.

let see, basically this is what I was told:
1) prepp= -sand all the way to primer or until its all smooth

-cover all the parts that are not gonna be painted (if parts are on the car)

2) paint= - 1st layer of base (very lightly) and 5-10 min dry up

- 2nd layer of base (lil bit more than 1st) 10-15 min dry up

-3rd layer of base 20-25 min dry up

3) clear coat:

- same as paint, but for coating I have to be more carefull cus its easier for the coating to dripple , so it means wait longer in between layers
(is thar right so far?)

4) light sanding with 1500 very softly

5) buffering

thats it

so, is there anything in between I should do or Im missing?

[infinitexsound]

yah u missed the part about listening to me............ now im kinda pissed.... first off... dont paint ur fucken car.... i will tell u why... but not in this post... lets talk about prep...and feathering... like i said prepping by hand is fukn stupid if your considering wasting ur time and effort and money and material... so dont do it... what did i say? DONT DO IT!

USE a DA best invention.. the one i showed u was 75 bucks.. its cheap and will work... secondly ur gonna need some sandpaper... 320 DA stick-it sand paper... and some red scotch brite... also some final sand prepping paste..... google all of that and post again... im gonna try to help u but u gotta listen before u start doing stuff...

P.S. OEM painted cars never came with any kind of primer really..... i mean its totally rare.. theres factory sealer but thats nothing like a filler... so who ever told u about painting cars... is BS'n cause theres also reasons why u have to time each layer of paint... he forgot to mention tacking.. but i guess he knows best... maybe because every single paint job he does it dirty.....so before u start painting.. u might wanna learn how to hold a gun consistently and movement... im telling u anyone can pull a trigger , but u gotta learn how to be consistent...

and HOW OLD R U?

[TwoFourO]

Do yourself a favor and listen to what infinitexsound is telling you. I was in your exact position a while back and now I have painted my own car. Let me tell you, its not a short or easy process to go from knowing nothing to being able to do the job right. NOR is it cheap in any way. You should not be touching ANYTHING on that car until you do research. You need books, video tapes, and the internet. You need to put some serious time and effort into researching your tools, techinques, processes, and supplies before you pikc up a single piece of sand paper. Just listen to what infinitexsound is telling you and don't paint your own car. I don't think you could possibly understand what you are trying to undertake with this project. It took me 2 1/2 years to get my car to where it is now as far as bodywork goes and I'm still not done buffing the clear to get the shine I want. (It's buffing, not buffering by the way). Anyways, just do the research and the more you learn the more you'll know you need to learn before you do anything. It's not easy, but if you stick it out it will be worth it. Good luck. And oh yeah, did I mention listening to infinitexsound was a good idea yet?

[snp_ethan]

wow.. some energy here telling me to stop before i do something stupid. I think I should listen..
lol
ok
first off, i dont see how my age has anything to do with all this, but anyway, im 21 (young, wreckless and stupid)
anyway..
yeah, the fender i worked on was the wrecked one, I would not touch the ones I im gonna install before I get some experience(some being better than none)
ok these are the pictures of one faded area, and the damage i need to fix..

oh yeah how about this on :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4557509600&fromMakeTrack=true

[bztech]

I'm going to interject here.....

First... most of the advice you've been given thus far is right. You seem hell bent on doing this yourself and I'm assuming its because you have no $$.

So with that said... lets assume your broke... first lets look at the tools your gonna need.
1) DA.. figure $75-150 for a decent one. (Hint sometimes shopping ebay or your local pawn shop for a good used piece can save a couple $$.. but keep in mind it is USED)
2)Gun(s).. I personally have two guns.. one that I use exclusively for spraying primer, etc. The other is for basecoat/clearcoat app only. The primer gun is a cheapy $75 special... it does the job. The good gun is a Devilbiss (like Infinite's.. $275 or so I forget its been about 4 years). So you buy one "ok" gun for $200 and call it a day. Your also gonna need a dryer/seperator to keep water out of the line. You might also want a good adjustable regulator if the gun doesn't come with one. PS DO NOT use a hose to run your spray gun that you used to run your sander, air ratchet, impact, etc. The oil left in the line is more than enough to fisheye some paint.
3)Masking paper, tape, sanding discs, sandpaper, misc supplies.. $150-200
4)Paint, hardener, Clear...$300+ depending on brand. Quality is $$ always. I have always sprayed Valspar or Dupont products. However both lines have "lower end" paints.. STAY AWAY they are junk and not worth wasting your $$ on. On the clear get good clear.. cheaper clear has a yellowish "tint" and on a white car or light colored car it can effect the look of the paint. Dupont makes a good clear thats availble over the counter for $100 a gallon or so. Watch out.. the price of clear is going up due to EPA mandated laws requiring the use of more solids.. so don't be surpised if its $10-25 higher.

So "doing it yourself" figuring things on the "high side" will run you about $1000. Its starting to look not so good/cheap to paint it yourself isn't it? You definately have to start somewhere if you want to learn to paint... If your SERIOUS about wanting to paint maybe you can find a shop that'd be willing to let you work for them on saturdays or something doing a little prep work and learning slowly. The advantage these guys might take you under their wing and show you some tricks that simply can't be said over the internet. You'll end up with alot more knowledge and hopefully a better looking car than if you just sprayed it yourself.

The other option is... Macco it or pay the $1K to someone to get it done right. Then pick yourself up some "junkyard parts" (fenders, hoods, etc) to practice your prep and painting skills on first.

Good luck!

[infinitexsound]

Dude u dont know how i feel, about finding another autobody guy on the forums... ^ this guy is cool...

well u know what.. ur gonna need a pull no matter what... cause the front end is pushed down... just have some chassis shop pull it straight so all the bolt hole measurments are the same.. probably i dont know the shop rate down there but that would probably cost around 350 at most .. and thats about 3 hrs of labor.. so....

[snp_ethan]

mm 350 at most, thats good to know i went to this one place and they told me they woudl do it for 4 bills...

anyway.. mmm it seems like its gonna cost a bunch of money that I dont have to still do it.. and it would only be worth it if I was to paint the whole car(which according to the quotes that I've been getting is around 2k more or less).. now, I got quotes for around 800 to fix the whole thing. But I eventually wanna paint the whole car. so im kind of in a predicament. I also dont have a welding machine which is gonna be a pain in the ass to find.

Now, I was thinking about unbending the front with a ratchet, get a big old and strong tree and work on that. it was an idea, the cheapest and best i had for that so far. some people have told me to do it, and they are ppl who know about cars(otherwise I would have not listened to them) but if I get a different opinion in the forums I will give it a thought.

damn, this is driving me crazy.. but i guess it's better to have to think a lot than having to work a lot to pay for a bunch of stuff i bought for nothing...

[infinitexsound]

trust me and BZtech, were in the industry we know... work on getting ur chassis straight first... and start from there... dont do that tree thing.. who ever told u that is an idiot.... if someone told u to drive ur car into a tree would u do it? reason why i asked ur age was to see if your some little kid just dreaming of a drift car... were helping u so u wont spend your money on stupid shit..so u save a bundle and spend it else where.. just work towards the goal.. its not like ur gonna spend all ur money right away.. once u get ur chassis straight its all kinda easy afterwards...

[snp_ethan]

well.. what can i say I am sorta compulsive buyer, and when I get something in my mind Im crazy.. I go to weird ends to get what I want... so I am still thinking of someway to get the whole thing done in a cheap, effective way... ...

so in the end, you guys are telling me dont start doing anything until i either get experience (and lots of it) or i am stupid and willing to spend all this money..

ill try #1
oh yeah a drift machine would be nice, but I only have 1 car, and thats it..

so, no paint for now i guess... humm.. i'll wash the car and post some pictures to show you guys the paint on it... until the next post then..

hold on, so, should I just do what blues told me about prepping it myself and taking th parts to a shop to have them painted?

[infinitexsound]

cheap effective way............... get ur chassis straight..... and wait for a maaco coupon.... 300 dollar paint job.. its the summer and i will bet all my money on it... most of the autobody shops are slow right now.. since its the summer... single stage solid black... if u wanna prep it your self.... get some 3m tape...a DA and some 320 DA stick it and 500 DA stick it.. red scotch brite and final sand...

[s14turbo]

dude, send me your number via pm and i will let you know what you can do.

[bztech]

cheap effective way............... get ur chassis straight..... and wait for a maaco coupon.... 300 dollar paint job.. its the summer and i will bet all my money on it... most of the autobody shops are slow right now.. since its the summer... single stage solid black... if u wanna prep it your self.... get some 3m tape...a DA and some 320 DA stick it and 500 DA stick it.. red scotch brite and final sand...


Definately spend the $$ at a reputable frame shop to get your shit straight.. if you don't you'll spend hours and hours banging your head against a wall for not doing it. Trying to line up all the body panels is pointless if the chassis isn't straight... same goes for all your suspension alignment, etc. So first spend your money on getting the chassis straight... Then like infinite says if you wanna still wanna feel like you had a "hand" in getting it painted get a DA and a bunch of sanding discs and go to town :) Then take it to Macco and get them to spray it. If you do the prep and make sure you TELL them what all you want masked off (i.e. don't let them paint black trim.. they do ALL the time) they can do a decent job. Thats about the best/cheapest route I can think for you to go... Plus you still get to learn a little something along the way. Which is what its all about.