suspension or motor???? which is more important??

[AceInHole]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on the importance of handling vs. power.....

I'm for handling, pretty obviously. My KA is pretty much completely stock (have a Matrix air filter on that 142.6 rwhp bad boy)... my suspension consists of springs/ struts/ swaybars/ STB/ and rims/ tires

Edit:  the random newbie quote that inspired this: "instead of worrying about stut bars you need to help that slow motor..."

[LanceS13]

Suspension obviously. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>
The car has 155hp...it's not that slow stock. &nbsp;Besides, I don't see why you'd want a powerful car if you couldn't put that power to the ground effectively or even keep it on the road. &nbsp;IMO, suspension first is not only the most fun and useful route, it's the also the safest. &nbsp;But then again, I'm not exactly a stop-light, straight-line racer, preferring autox and road courses, where engine mods, without the appropriate supporting suspension mods, are pretty pointless.

[Yoshi]

Suspension, no contest.
I'll leave out why... don't wanna skew how others would post <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

[BlackFox]

I'm taking the approach of suspension first. tower braces, shocks, springs, sway bars, bushings, con rods, and what ever else there is. Because if you can't get the power to transfer efficiently to the ground then what's the point. Right? 400+hp is no use if you fly off the road when cornering <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Another reason I'm doing suspension first is that I'm going to need to take it in to get it 4 wheel aligned when I'm done moding suspension.
I don't want some guy working at the tire shop to drive my car after I put the racing clutch in and fry the clutch or something becuase he doesn't know my car. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

Also because I'll have a 20psi KA24DET when I'm done &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/lookaround.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':look:'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sneaky.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':pissed:'>

[DSC]

Turn Fast! (http://www.turnfast.com), then stop fast, then go fast

You can put as much NAWZ as you want in your civic, you can't use it around corners <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> so I'll still smoke yo ass

[AceInHole]

oddly... i'm building up the suspension... then turbo'ing... then maybe i'll do some engine stuff.... lol... makes some sort of sense, almost.

[LanceS13]

I like that DSC.
Admittingly, now that I'm for the most part satisfied with the way the car handles, I've gotten a bad case of the horsepower bug. &nbsp;So my route will be turn fast, then go fast, then stop fast, then stop peg-legging, then go faster, then look fast. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':cool:'>

[tnord]

looks like all the track rats except for me have spoken

i did suspension first for one simple reason;

$500 in suspension work you can almost get a good set of springs and shocks, i'm estimating this will cut about 1.5-2 seconds off my lap time.

$500 in power mods will get you an exhaust, i estimate that would take .5 seconds off my lap time.

in short, marginal benefits from suspension enhancements is far greater than for power

[HippoSleek]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LanceS13 @ April 05 2002,02:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I like that DSC.
Admittingly, now that I'm for the most part satisfied with the way the car handles, I've gotten a bad case of the horsepower bug. So my route will be turn fast, then go fast, then stop fast, then stop peg-legging, then go faster, then look fast. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':cool:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
nice - "stop peg-legging it!" &nbsp;

Actually, my preference is "Stop fast, turn fast, go fast, clean sh!t off the car, look fast."

I a perfect world, I would have done brakes, then about half the suspension, then speed, then the other half (then wash the car and maybe make it look fast).

My only problem is that I have a problem that requires pulling the tranny now (TO bearing). &nbsp;If I'm gonna do that, I might as well just drop a new engine in there, right? &nbsp;The corrollary logic is that this car came with the same suspension w/ an SR. &nbsp;It should be good for a bit more power... at least I gots brakes <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

[sykikchimp]

First thing I did to my car was put on T/C rods, and Good brake pads. Then my Kumho's, then the STB's front and rear (Love Cusco!<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>, then the intake (gotta give the poor thing some air) Next will be a good coilover set, and some wheels.

--ex. 2 days ago I get behind a SS Camaro on this road that gets REAL curvy (I might take a picture of this one set of S's, it's quite beautiful) anyway, he starts trying to take off and leave me. Which he successfully does, till we hit the curvy parts. He was a good 10-15 car lengths in front of me. Suddenly I'm riding his ASS through the curves. I could tell he was really pushing his car too b/c his tires we're squealing around corners, and he was trying to cut corners. It was quite funny b/c I had a good 5-10 mph left before I would have maxed out.


oh yeah, forgot the point.. &nbsp; Suspension is KING

especially if your on a budget.

[Krunko]

Am I the only one here that did power first? &nbsp;Maybe it's because my last two cars were a z28 and a mustang GT. &nbsp;My reasoning is that our car handles better stock then most cars do with suspension upgrades, and our car...for what it is...is underpowered. &nbsp;I compare our car to other small sporty cars like Eagle TSI, Celica GTS, etc....So I see that it needs more power. &nbsp;I've down intake and exhuast...oh yeah plugs and wires if that counts. &nbsp;But...i've also added an apexi carbon fiber front strut,and I just ordered my eibach prokit springs...so I'm upgrading pretty evently if you ask me.

I'm just wondering if my handling upgrades are going to be more noticeable then my power upgrades.

[BlackS14]

While I plan to turbo the 'ol Ka, I'd have to say I'm a bigger fan of doing suspension mods. When all said and done, I'll propably have spent close to (if not more) than $3,000 just on suspension compnents....I'd list what my plans are, but have to go back to work....I'll post them later just for shits and you guys can let me know if I'm nuts....hehehehhe <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>

-Bill

[drift freaq]

well in the course of doing my 5 speed swap a couple of engine mods happened. Lightened steel flywheel with larger clutch surface. In prep for turbo. Exhaust and intake . now I consider everything except the flywheel to be minor and the flywheel was a necessity. Now my car has just recieved a healthy suspension upgrade in the way of AGX's and HKS springs. My swaybars and TC rods and subframe bushings go in next week.
It looks like my 5 lug swap is coming up fast too, which will clear the way for 30mm aluminum Z calipers. At which point the car will be ready for the Turbo. I consider this suspension to be my stage I suspension setup. The car may recieve Ground Controls after &nbsp;the Turbo &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>
it will all depend on if I am happy with how it corners and yes (kill me for this Ace) Drifts. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>

[luey02]

I'll do brakes last.. absolutely last mod. &nbsp;why? &nbsp;I dont see the point of stop fast rather than stoping normally. &nbsp;I like to keep my distance with the car in front so I dont have to stop on a dime. &nbsp; &nbsp;Seriously, unless you're goin to the tracks where brakes are pushed to the max on every turn that stock breaks will be life-threatening to have. &nbsp;I dont see a point for upgrading it. &nbsp; Tell me Im wrong but with a limited budget, I rather spend more money on other things than breaks. &nbsp;

I'll be more than interested in your reasons for doing brakes... &nbsp;besides for show and feel sporty about your car. &nbsp; Plus, stock breaks can lock the wheels up just as upgraded ones can, so max breaking power NEEDED is the same.

[tnord]

so you're telling me you never go out for a spirited drive? you never race anyone? you never do 100+ on the freeway?

if you do any of these things brakes become very important. especially in MN, deer fly out in front of you all the time, and the only way to avoid smashing up your car is to stop, and stop fast. what about when you see a cop up ahead and you're doin over 100? you want to get slowed down as quickly as possible. spirited drives on windy roads are where brakes are most important. 20+ min of hard use and their fried. if you've never experienced brake fade before, you will never know the importance of good brakes. (imagine doing over 90 going into a sharp right hander and the brake pedal goes to the floor, now what do you do?) in short, brakes are the most underappreciated aspect of a car.

[hurleyboi514]

man, this is a great question! &nbsp;well, ive got the '91 SE with the sport suspension. &nbsp;this thing handles excellent!! its better than my Rx7 with Racing Beat suspension! &nbsp;i dont know what to do 1st yet, the SR20, or a full suspension. &nbsp;if im gonna do either one, im gonna do it right!!! &nbsp;i plan on spending about 3k for each, so one will happen this summer, the next will happen in the winter probably. &nbsp;so, what do i do? &nbsp;well, since the stock suspension is so good, im afraid to mess it up. &nbsp;so, i think im gonna drop the SR in a start building it into a STOCK 180sx. &nbsp;(minus the body kits, wings, stickers, glass, so on that will be needed for the full conversion) &nbsp;after the SR, ill finish the suspension, then upgrade the brakes (shouldnt be more than $500) and start making her look like a real 180! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> since she will be at heart, it'll be time to let that show outside! &nbsp; <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':love:'> &nbsp; what do you guys think of that?

[DrDubbleB]

Honestly, I agree, suspension probably should be the first thing done. &nbsp;But, I am doing both at the same time. &nbsp;The plan is to get a new engine (yes it's going to be the SR, you can all flame on me for how crappy the engine is now *cough*posers*cough*), and to get a set of coilovers at the same time. &nbsp;From there, the rest of the suspension will be done, and then back to the engine. &nbsp;I have changed my views on this through my time on all of these boards, but for the most part, it has stayed the same.

I will say this much though; to most people (I'm not one of them, mind you), being able to say I have these coilovers, and this strust tower bar, and those pillowball tension rods, really isn't all that impressive. &nbsp;Instead they want to be able to say, I put down this much HP to the wheels, look at me now. &nbsp;Face it though, most people do compare HP, not suspension set ups.

[Jeff240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (luey02 @ April 05 2002,2:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'll do brakes last.. absolutely last mod. why? I dont see the point of stop fast rather than stoping normally. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I know... I know! &nbsp;PICK ME!! I know why your doing your brakes as the absolute LAST mod!! &nbsp;
(teacher calls on me)
CUZ YOU'RE AN IDIOT!!
Ask Rampid360, who has a s14. &nbsp;And has driven my s14 with a 300zx swap. &nbsp;He'll tell ya who stops faster!
Many reviews on our cars have said that our brakes are small, underpowered, even for our light cars, and are prone to brake fade. &nbsp;The same is said for 300zx brakes ON A Z32! &nbsp;Nissan has made it a point to send people in their cars crashing thru buildings. &nbsp;But, you stick a set of 4-piston calipers on the front, that are adequate on a 3,500lb car, onto a 2,700 pound car, you now stop. &nbsp;And pull your teeth out of the steering wheel when your done.

So. &nbsp;Reviews say our brakes suck. &nbsp;Then you're gonna put some MORE power to the ground, go faster, turn better, and still stop mediocrely? &nbsp;
I did brakes first. &nbsp;Then engine, cuz in FL, there are no twisties <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>, then suspension.
-Jeff

[boosteds14]

i did the opposite from many of &nbsp;you guys, i did performance before suspension.
now, since i am an idiot <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':blush:'> , i have no more money and cant afford suspension until next year. so in otherwords, i will be driving a 400whp car with no traction and no handling. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/nervous.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':nervous:'>

[boosteds14]

what do u guys think of just droppong in eibach springs for now. will it do the job?? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/huh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':huh:'>

[AceInHole]

just a side thing: brake fade definitely doesn't show up as much with more open spoked rims.... &nbsp;more venting = more cooling... a side affect that i found when repeatedly stopping HARD(er) from 80mph sprints. (doing so with steelies eventually ended up with SEVERE brake fade... and blowing a stop sign)

[tnord]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ April 06 2002,1:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">just a side thing: brake fade definitely doesn't show up as much with more open spoked rims.... more venting = more cooling... a side affect that i found when repeatedly stopping HARD(er) from 80mph sprints. (doing so with steelies eventually ended up with SEVERE brake fade... and blowing a stop sign)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
yet another reason to get kosei's instead of $300/wheel brands from japan.

and to whoever said that people compare cars by hp numbers and not suspension capability, well.......you must be hangin out with mustang/camaro boys if that's all you and your friends care about. yeah big hp numbers are nice, but there is much more to a fast car than lots of power. if you want lots of power, you bought the wrong car.

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ April 04 2002)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
if you want lots of power, you bought the wrong car.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">quote:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Originally posted by Mav1178:

Heck, everyone says the stock injectors are crap, but a guy by the name of Steve Covacs (this was a while ago) ran 12's using only nitrous, on his stock engine with stock internals!!! Granted he blew 2 trannys with 2 passes, but it goes to show that a bit of guts can go a long way.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Just so nobody gets confused here....

His name is Steve Kovacs
He actually ran 11's (11.3 or so, I believe)
He was running a 150-shot of nitrous.
He was runnning 100+ psi of fuel pressure while spraying.
He had slicks
He had a spool rear end
He had a Tremec TKO tranny with a custom bellhousing

Just so nobody thinks you can just bolt on a nitrous kit and expect to run 11's (or even 12's).
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
So...... 11.3 second 1/4 with a stock internaled KA.....

Just saying that power is always obtainable (basically no matter what car you get, but especially true with 240's).... suspension is something that needs to be refined. Therefore, starting off with a better handling car is better than starting off with a more powerful car, IMO.

[DrDubbleB]

<!--QuoteBegin--tnord+April 04 2002,4<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ April 04 2002,4<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>5)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and to whoever said that people compare cars by hp numbers and not suspension capability, well.......you must be hangin out with mustang/camaro boys if that's all you and your friends care about. yeah big hp numbers are nice, but there is much more to a fast car than lots of power. if you want lots of power, you bought the wrong car.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
That would be me. And it's a general truth. I'm not hanging out with the wrong crowds, not at all, just speaking from experience. When people ask you about your car, usually they will ask what's under the hood, and other questions like that (note: I say usually; but there are acceptions to every rule), not what's between the wheels (figure of speech). Never did I say everyone only cares about HP, but yez, more people tend to get impressed over HP than they do about suspension mods.

Once again, I did not say that motor mods are more important than suspension mods.

Edited for bad grammar.

[luey02]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jeff240sx @ April 05 2002,3:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteBegin--luey02+April 05 2002,2<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (luey02 @ April 05 2002,2<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>6)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'll do brakes last.. absolutely last mod. why? I dont see the point of stop fast rather than stoping normally. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I know... I know! PICK ME!! I know why your doing your brakes as the absolute LAST mod!!
(teacher calls on me)
CUZ YOU'RE AN IDIOT!!
Ask Rampid360, who has a s14. And has driven my s14 with a 300zx swap. He'll tell ya who stops faster!
Many reviews on our cars have said that our brakes are small, underpowered, even for our light cars, and are prone to brake fade. The same is said for 300zx brakes ON A Z32! Nissan has made it a point to send people in their cars crashing thru buildings. But, you stick a set of 4-piston calipers on the front, that are adequate on a 3,500lb car, onto a 2,700 pound car, you now stop. And pull your teeth out of the steering wheel when your done.

So. Reviews say our brakes suck. Then you're gonna put some MORE power to the ground, go faster, turn better, and still stop mediocrely?
I did brakes first. Then engine, cuz in FL, there are no twisties <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>, then suspension.
-Jeff</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
no need for the name calling, smartass.. &nbsp; <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>

who would stop faster? &nbsp;I'll bet you my life that equal cars with z32 brakes and stock 240sx brakes can stop in the same distance. &nbsp;Dont believe me? &nbsp;put it this way, I just have to put more pressure on the brake petal cuz doesn't matter how big the brakes are, if your tires start locking up and can't grip the road, it's useless. &nbsp;and stock 240 brakes can lock the wheels up with no problem. &nbsp;tell me I'm wrong plz. &nbsp;

I go faster when there's an open road with my sr, not when a car's in front me. &nbsp;

try again. &nbsp;

Look on the brite side, now you dont have to do squads like me cuz you dont have to press that hard on the breaks... (that's not meant to be funny)

[sykikchimp]

I like to work on my suspension first, b/c for the money, that gets more oohs and ahhs from me than an extra 20 hp for the same money.

I like my oohs and ahhs. &nbsp;not everyone elses.

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (luey02 @ April 04 2002,4:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteBegin--Jeff240sx+April 05 2002,3<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jeff240sx @ April 05 2002,3<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>5)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (luey02 @ April 05 2002,2<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'll do brakes last.. absolutely last mod. why? I dont see the point of stop fast rather than stoping normally. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I know... I know! PICK ME!! I know why your doing your brakes as the absolute LAST mod!!
(teacher calls on me)
CUZ YOU'RE AN IDIOT!!
Ask Rampid360, who has a s14. And has driven my s14 with a 300zx swap. He'll tell ya who stops faster!
Many reviews on our cars have said that our brakes are small, underpowered, even for our light cars, and are prone to brake fade. The same is said for 300zx brakes ON A Z32! Nissan has made it a point to send people in their cars crashing thru buildings. But, you stick a set of 4-piston calipers on the front, that are adequate on a 3,500lb car, onto a 2,700 pound car, you now stop. And pull your teeth out of the steering wheel when your done.

So. Reviews say our brakes suck. Then you're gonna put some MORE power to the ground, go faster, turn better, and still stop mediocrely?
I did brakes first. Then engine, cuz in FL, there are no twisties <!--emo&<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>, then suspension.
-Jeff</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
no need for the name calling, smartass.. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>

who would stop faster? I'll bet you my life that equal cars with z32 brakes and stock 240sx brakes can stop in the same distance. Dont believe me? put it this way, I just have to put more pressure on the brake petal cuz doesn't matter how big the brakes are, if your tires start locking up and can't grip the road, it's useless. and stock 240 brakes can lock the wheels up with no problem. tell me I'm wrong plz.

I go faster when there's an open road with my sr, not when a car's in front me.

try again.

Look on the brite side, now you dont have to do squads like me cuz you dont have to press that hard on the breaks... (that's not meant to be funny)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
the Z32 brakes are more resistant to brake fade though... after heavy braking, even just one time from high speeds, the stock brakes get caked pretty easily. &nbsp;After that happens, a 240sx with stock brakes will take forever to stop, untill the brakes can cool down.

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (luey02 @ April 06 2002,09:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">no need for the name calling, smartass.. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>

who would stop faster? I'll bet you my life that equal cars with z32 brakes and stock 240sx brakes can stop in the same distance. Dont believe me? put it this way, I just have to put more pressure on the brake petal cuz doesn't matter how big the brakes are, if your tires start locking up and can't grip the road, it's useless. and stock 240 brakes can lock the wheels up with no problem. tell me I'm wrong plz.

I go faster when there's an open road with my sr, not when a car's in front me.

try again.

Look on the brite side, now you dont have to do squads like me cuz you dont have to press that hard on the breaks... (that's not meant to be funny)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
You just don't see the point of brakes (or breaks as you call them &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> &nbsp; ) &nbsp;Have you ever had you brakes go bad on you? Like when your pads are really low or a master cylinder starts going south on ya, your braking distance gets effected pretty bad. Thats how a person feels like in a car with stock brakes after getting out of a car with better then stock brakes. I can't even begin to say how important brakes are.

[tnord]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (luey02 @ April 06 2002,2:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
no need for the name calling, smartass.. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>

who would stop faster? I'll bet you my life that equal cars with z32 brakes and stock 240sx brakes can stop in the same distance. Dont believe me? put it this way, I just have to put more pressure on the brake petal cuz doesn't matter how big the brakes are, if your tires start locking up and can't grip the road, it's useless. and stock 240 brakes can lock the wheels up with no problem. tell me I'm wrong plz.

I go faster when there's an open road with my sr, not when a car's in front me.

try again.

Look on the brite side, now you dont have to do squads like me cuz you dont have to press that hard on the breaks... (that's not meant to be funny)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
if brakes aren't important, then why do tech inspectors asess me 2 points for a Z32 conversion? which happens to be the same point asessment i received for my eibach's. if you want to go on believing that brakes are irrelevant that's fine. After all, ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

edited for removal of unnecessary quote

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ April 04 2002,6:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (luey02 @ April 06 2002,2:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
no need for the name calling, smartass.. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>

who would stop faster? I'll bet you my life that equal cars with z32 brakes and stock 240sx brakes can stop in the same distance. Dont believe me? put it this way, I just have to put more pressure on the brake petal cuz doesn't matter how big the brakes are, if your tires start locking up and can't grip the road, it's useless. and stock 240 brakes can lock the wheels up with no problem. tell me I'm wrong plz.

I go faster when there's an open road with my sr, not when a car's in front me.

try again.

Look on the brite side, now you dont have to do squads like me cuz you dont have to press that hard on the breaks... (that's not meant to be funny)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
if brakes aren't important, then why do tech inspectors asess me 2 points for a Z32 conversion? which happens to be the same point asessment i received for my eibach's. if you want to go on believing that brakes are irrelevant that's fine. After all, ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

edited for removal of unnecessary quote</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
tnord is getting just as sarcastically bitter as i am, isn't he...

[Arcane]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Krunko @ April 05 2002,09:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Am I the only one here that did power first? Maybe it's because my last two cars were a z28 and a mustang GT. My reasoning is that our car handles better stock then most cars do with suspension upgrades, and our car...for what it is...is underpowered. I compare our car to other small sporty cars like Eagle TSI, Celica GTS, etc....So I see that it needs more power. I've down intake and exhuast...oh yeah plugs and wires if that counts. But...i've also added an apexi carbon fiber front strut,and I just ordered my eibach prokit springs...so I'm upgrading pretty evently if you ask me.

I'm just wondering if my handling upgrades are going to be more noticeable then my power upgrades.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
well, i'm glad i'm not the only one who would focused on power first...but i think i would do both equally and keep a balanced car in terms of power and handling...

[luey02]

fellaz fellaz, I'm fully aware of the stock brake fading. &nbsp;Never really experienced it tho.. &nbsp;I knew I left out something in my post.. &nbsp;tnord, were you a nasty child?? &nbsp; You're talkin about pointed assess for autox right? &nbsp;if you read my post, I was only talkin about daily driving and I doubt dat most people who did their brake upgrades even go to the tracks. &nbsp; All I'm saying is there is no satisfaction/benefits for having 13" brakes for the streets. &nbsp;(see, now you gonna say what about city driving?! &nbsp;there are exceptions to everything, people love to argue) &nbsp;

I rather change my driving style (easy on the brakes by brakin early) and spend my money on performance upgrades.. suspension, engine... &nbsp;for those who do race, like tnord, this is not for you. &nbsp; No points assessed for brakes over here, I rather go/turn fast then braking fast, again, for suburb people (80 % of americans) &nbsp;where break fading isn't an issue. &nbsp;

Don't you guys agree? &nbsp;no one ever does... &nbsp; <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hmmm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hmmm:'>

I just thougtht I can make people realize something.. &nbsp;maybe cuz I had a accident from locking up my wheels..especially going down hill.

[DSC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (luey02 @ April 04 2002,9:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">fellaz fellaz, I'm fully aware of the stock brake fading. Never really experienced it tho.. I knew I left out something in my post.. tnord, were you a nasty child?? You're talkin about pointed assess for autox right? if you read my post, I was only talkin about daily driving and I doubt dat most people who did their brake upgrades even go to the tracks. All I'm saying is there is no satisfaction/benefits for having 13" brakes for the streets. (see, now you gonna say what about city driving?! there are exceptions to everything, people love to argue)

I rather change my driving style (easy on the brakes by brakin early) and spend my money on performance upgrades.. suspension, engine... for those who do race, like tnord, this is not for you. No points assessed for brakes over here, I rather go/turn fast then braking fast, again, for suburb people (80 % of americans) where break fading isn't an issue.

Don't you guys agree? no one ever does... :hmmm:

I just thougtht I can make people realize something.. maybe cuz I had a accident from locking up my wheels..especially going down hill.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I experianced brake fade (slight but still scary since there was the end of the road leading to some gravel then a drop off of about 6 feet) once during a spirited drive and it made me want some nicer brakes. If brake upgrades aren't usefull for daily driving then suspension won't be either.

Edit: &nbsp;Also, if you locked up your wheels your brakes aren't to take the blame.

[9524tee]

i think we could all agree drifting through canyons is more fun than having some extra ponies under the hood

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (9524tee @ April 06 2002,9:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i think we could all agree drifting through canyons is more fun than having some extra ponies under the hood</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Maybe to you, but not me. &nbsp;We all have different goals, my goal is to have a car that makes people crap there pants when I floor it (a goal I won't be attempting in my current car) Others might want a car that can turn good, it's all prefrence.

[camppain]

uhhh my car stops way faster than when i had the stock 240 brakes.

and i will have to agree with everyone here as i have done whats been said. my suspension was first mod done (not includint replacing the t chain <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>) then i went to z32 brakes.

so yes its susp brakes and then power.

even the coveted mike kojima says so! &nbsp; <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'>

before you go faster you need to think with added hp you need to slow it down better. stock brakes were designed for stock engine. stock brakes were designed for normal driving.

drifting is to 240's like wu tang is to hip hop

extreemmlly played out and getting annoying fast with every mention of it.

[S13Grl]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (camppain @ April 07 2002,11:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">drifting is to 240's like wu tang is to hip hop

extreemmlly played out and getting annoying fast with every mention of it.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
And I find myself forced to comment on this thread:







THAT IS AN AWESOME F'N STATEMENT!!!!!!!!

[camppain]

ohh and just to show you tell me who will stop better? its physics (sp?) do the equation.

http://212.212.159.196/camppain/imagesP/zupgrade3.jpg

http://212.212.159.196/camppain/imagesP/zupgrade4.jpg

[Kreator]

I'm not gonna comment on brakes issues...

As for suspension, i pretty much agree that its more important (especially when you got the motor stuff done too) but honestly, when there is a mustang gt or a porsche in a lane next to you and wants to race... I don't think suspension is gonna help you...

Therefore, i'll prolly be doing suspension first cuz it's cheaper...

[LanceS13]

true, but intake, header, and exhaust ain't gonna help much either. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':cool:'>

[student]

suspension!!!!!!!! I am going to my first autocross tomorrow and my car is stock from a used parking lot. The only thing i did was put some new mobil 1 oil. I wish i had springs and shocks sway bars and other suspension parts. Hope everything goes well tomorrow.

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (S13Grl @ April 05 2002,12:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteBegin--camppain+April 07 2002,11<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (camppain @ April 07 2002,11<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">drifting is to 240's like wu tang is to hip hop

extreemmlly played out and getting annoying fast with every mention of it.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
And I find myself forced to comment on this thread:







THAT IS AN AWESOME F'N STATEMENT!!!!!!!!</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
wow.... that's such a new and exciting thought I might just slide into a curb myself!! &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

[bing]

RE: brake dispute

isnt the 300z conversion $950 through PDM???

thats is upwards of $1700 canadian by the time i get it on...

i did decent euro slotted rotors and good pads all around for around undr $400, and i just did the master cylinder for $110,

suppose i do brakes like that every year (inc master cylinder) i could do them 3 years in a row and still have money left over for mods...

im not hating, but i prolly wont do the conversion. i stop fine anyways and i have experienced brake fade, but not that bad.

before my master cylinder was replaced i had to force the brake all the way to the floor and it would still take me a while to stop, it was scary.

i agree with suspension, i did exhaust first in haste, i orderd f&r strut bars and when the tax man explodes i'll do GR-2's and sportlines..

then injen, then i'll sleep for a while

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bing @ April 05 2002,11:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">RE: brake dispute

isnt the 300z conversion $950 through PDM???

thats is upwards of $1700 canadian by the time i get it on...

i did decent euro slotted rotors and good pads all around for around undr $400, and i just did the master cylinder for $110,

suppose i do brakes like that every year (inc master cylinder) i could do them 3 years in a row and still have money left over for mods...

im not hating, but i prolly wont do the conversion. i stop fine anyways and i have experienced brake fade, but not that bad.

before my master cylinder was replaced i had to force the brake all the way to the floor and it would still take me a while to stop, it was scary.

i agree with suspension, i did exhaust first in haste, i orderd f&r strut bars and when the tax man explodes i'll do GR-2's and sportlines..

then injen, then i'll sleep for a while</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
if you source parts yourself the z32 brake conversion is possible for probably half the cost that PDM sells it for...

[bing]

by sourcing all those parts yourself would you mean hitting the junk yards???
those would be used brakes with many concerns accompanying

i havent looked into it so i cant really argue, but it sems unlikely to me that buying the part individually at nissan could be that much cheaper...
either way i shant argue, you know more than i.

my car's destiny is to be a cruiser, not too fast, handles awesome and looks sweet, sounds sweet, and getting rarer and rarer (90 coupe)...

my first investment was stereo, i had it before i got the car actually. that way i could drown out the annoying engine noises waitong to be fixed, it's peace of mind.

but of course, actually investing large sums of money into show would be last.

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bing @ April 06 2002,12:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">by sourcing all those parts yourself would you mean hitting the junk yards???
those would be used brakes with many concerns accompanying

i havent looked into it so i cant really argue, but it sems unlikely to me that buying the part individually at nissan could be that much cheaper...
either way i shant argue, you know more than i.

my car's destiny is to be a cruiser, not too fast, handles awesome and looks sweet, sounds sweet, and getting rarer and rarer (90 coupe)...

my first investment was stereo, i had it before i got the car actually. that way i could drown out the annoying engine noises waitong to be fixed, it's peace of mind.

but of course, actually investing large sums of money into show would be last.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
either way, you've already upgraded your brakes. &nbsp;slotted rotors are a noticeable upgrade from the stock solid rotors.

[Jeff240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bing @ April 07 2002,12:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">RE: brake dispute

isnt the 300z conversion $950 through PDM???

thats is upwards of $1700 canadian by the time i get it on...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Well. &nbsp;No, sourcing is not rummaging thru junkyards. &nbsp;I sourced all my stuff, and it is all new and / or rebuilt. &nbsp;Here's the brake-down (ha &nbsp; &nbsp;ha &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ha. &nbsp;STOP WITH THE PUNS!!<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
$110 for BOTH aluminum z32 calipers, after core, through AutoZone. &nbsp;These are REBUILT, with a LIFETIME warranty!
$100 Stainless steel braided conversion hoses thru PDM.
$45 "Brake hardware kit" for 1993 300zx. &nbsp;From Nissan Dealership, includes 4 shims, 4 slotted shims, and 2 bags of anit-squeal.
$140 Ebay z32 crossdrilled / slotted BREMBO rotors.
$5 Pins to attach shims and pads to calipers. &nbsp;4 @ $1.25/ea.
$80 &nbsp;EBC Greenstuff pads. &nbsp;Others are cheaper, I know. &nbsp;
Total bill for my swap: $480
About 1/2 of PDM, and a lifetime warranty on the calipers. &nbsp;
-Jeff

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jeff240sx @ April 06 2002,03:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bing @ April 07 2002,12:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">RE: brake dispute

isnt the 300z conversion $950 through PDM???

thats is upwards of $1700 canadian by the time i get it on...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Well. No, sourcing is not rummaging thru junkyards. I sourced all my stuff, and it is all new and / or rebuilt. Here's the brake-down (ha ha ha. STOP WITH THE PUNS!!<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
$110 for BOTH aluminum z32 calipers, after core, through AutoZone. These are REBUILT, with a LIFETIME warranty!
$100 Stainless steel braided conversion hoses thru PDM.
$45 "Brake hardware kit" for 1993 300zx. From Nissan Dealership, includes 4 shims, 4 slotted shims, and 2 bags of anit-squeal.
$140 Ebay z32 crossdrilled / slotted BREMBO rotors.
$5 Pins to attach shims and pads to calipers. 4 @ $1.25/ea.
$80 EBC Greenstuff pads. Others are cheaper, I know.
Total bill for my swap: $480
About 1/2 of PDM, and a lifetime warranty on the calipers.
-Jeff</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
just make sure u keep the receipt with that lifetime warranty.... &nbsp;:-D

and for hardcore racers (solo I and solo II people most likely) or people who wanna say they're hardcore racers... &nbsp;you'd want the iron calipers instead of the aluminum ones. &nbsp;The aluminum ones warp rotors under heavy track use.

[bing]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jeff240sx @ April 06 2002,03:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bing @ April 07 2002,12:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">RE: brake dispute

isnt the 300z conversion $950 through PDM???

thats is upwards of $1700 canadian by the time i get it on...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Well. No, sourcing is not rummaging thru junkyards. I sourced all my stuff, and it is all new and / or rebuilt. Here's the brake-down (ha ha ha. STOP WITH THE PUNS!!<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
$110 for BOTH aluminum z32 calipers, after core, through AutoZone. These are REBUILT, with a LIFETIME warranty!
$100 Stainless steel braided conversion hoses thru PDM.
$45 "Brake hardware kit" for 1993 300zx. From Nissan Dealership, includes 4 shims, 4 slotted shims, and 2 bags of anit-squeal.
$140 Ebay z32 crossdrilled / slotted BREMBO rotors.
$5 Pins to attach shims and pads to calipers. 4 @ $1.25/ea.
$80 EBC Greenstuff pads. Others are cheaper, I know.
Total bill for my swap: $480
About 1/2 of PDM, and a lifetime warranty on the calipers.
-Jeff</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
i think that should be posted in the faq's so i dont have to go searching for it later on if i do change my mind

[camppain]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ April 07 2002,10:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jeff240sx @ April 06 2002,03:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bing @ April 07 2002,12:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">RE: brake dispute

isnt the 300z conversion $950 through PDM???

thats is upwards of $1700 canadian by the time i get it on...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Well. No, sourcing is not rummaging thru junkyards. I sourced all my stuff, and it is all new and / or rebuilt. Here's the brake-down (ha ha ha. STOP WITH THE PUNS!!<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
$110 for BOTH aluminum z32 calipers, after core, through AutoZone. These are REBUILT, with a LIFETIME warranty!
$100 Stainless steel braided conversion hoses thru PDM.
$45 "Brake hardware kit" for 1993 300zx. From Nissan Dealership, includes 4 shims, 4 slotted shims, and 2 bags of anit-squeal.
$140 Ebay z32 crossdrilled / slotted BREMBO rotors.
$5 Pins to attach shims and pads to calipers. 4 @ $1.25/ea.
$80 EBC Greenstuff pads. Others are cheaper, I know.
Total bill for my swap: $480
About 1/2 of PDM, and a lifetime warranty on the calipers.
-Jeff</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
just make sure u keep the receipt with that lifetime warranty.... :-D

and for hardcore racers (solo I and solo II people most likely) or people who wanna say they're hardcore racers... you'd want the iron calipers instead of the aluminum ones. The aluminum ones warp rotors under heavy track use.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
how would the aluminum calipers warp the rotor? just curious as to your theory?

and by all means slide into a curb but dont hurt your s14 <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>:P

and i went with the same setup as jeff calipers 50 ea rotors 50 ea oem pads oem dont know individual cost on that misc items though

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (camppain @ April 06 2002,10:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ April 07 2002,10:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jeff240sx @ April 06 2002,03:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bing @ April 07 2002,12:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">RE: brake dispute

isnt the 300z conversion $950 through PDM???

thats is upwards of $1700 canadian by the time i get it on...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Well. No, sourcing is not rummaging thru junkyards. I sourced all my stuff, and it is all new and / or rebuilt. Here's the brake-down (ha ha ha. STOP WITH THE PUNS!!<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
$110 for BOTH aluminum z32 calipers, after core, through AutoZone. These are REBUILT, with a LIFETIME warranty!
$100 Stainless steel braided conversion hoses thru PDM.
$45 "Brake hardware kit" for 1993 300zx. From Nissan Dealership, includes 4 shims, 4 slotted shims, and 2 bags of anit-squeal.
$140 Ebay z32 crossdrilled / slotted BREMBO rotors.
$5 Pins to attach shims and pads to calipers. 4 @ $1.25/ea.
$80 EBC Greenstuff pads. Others are cheaper, I know.
Total bill for my swap: $480
About 1/2 of PDM, and a lifetime warranty on the calipers.
-Jeff</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
just make sure u keep the receipt with that lifetime warranty.... :-D

and for hardcore racers (solo I and solo II people most likely) or people who wanna say they're hardcore racers... you'd want the iron calipers instead of the aluminum ones. The aluminum ones warp rotors under heavy track use.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
how would the aluminum calipers warp the rotor? just curious as to your theory?

and by all means slide into a curb but dont hurt your s14 <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>:P</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
it's not a theory... it's fact. &nbsp;a few people have actually swapped from aluminum to iron because of this affect. &nbsp;it probably has to do with aluminum being weaker than iron... and the calipers bending under high temp/ load in turn bends the rotor as it passes through the caliper.

[Jeff240sx]

That takes serious heat to make the calipers bend. &nbsp;They are pretty massive. &nbsp;But either way, if they warp, take them back to AutoZone and tell them you want iron ones! &nbsp;They'll hook you up.
And... no keeping reciepts there, its all on the computer <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[camppain]

i didnt mean to say theory as in its not proven just wanted to hear your story on it hope no confusion due to that.

i was thinking something along that line as well with the high heat of continous breaking. but then you can just upgrade to a higher grade fluid which has higher heat thingy ma jiggy ( a lil slow on the tech terms tonoght) <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':blush:'>

[nrcooled]

My first investment was cross drilled rotors, pads all around, and Goodrige braided lines second investment sr20det...you must be able to stop the new power. &nbsp;Everyone that said brakes aren't important have never had a close call when running hard it is scary as hell. &nbsp;Next investment springs and shocks because my car almost looks lifted in front because the lighter engine

PS the new wu tang is pretty hot the last few sucked but the new one is not too bad.

[AceInHole]

well... a lifetime warranty on the calipers doesn't help when it's the rotors that warp....

[Jeff240sx]

Rotors always warp. &nbsp;Street driving can warp rotors, by brakeing hard, then splashing a puddle. &nbsp;This heats and expands the metal molecules, then the sudden cooling pulls them back too fast, and the molecules rest where they can, not where they want. &nbsp;This causes warped rotors.

Ace, why do you say that Aluminum calipers warp rotors? &nbsp;Why would it be worse than iron? &nbsp;They are, after all, the same 4 piston calipers, just Aluminum ones are about 12 pounds lighter, each.

And my rotors are x-drilled, so with street driving (no auto-x till turbo and 5 speed come) and holes, my rotors should be cool enough not to warp.
-Jeff

[camppain]

ture after rethinking the aluminum calipers have the cooling fins as well to dissipate heat compared to the iron calipers plsus higher temp handling brake fluid like some nice dot 4 would do the trick

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jeff240sx @ April 07 2002,03:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ace, why do you say that Aluminum calipers warp rotors? Why would it be worse than iron? They are, after all, the same 4 piston calipers, just Aluminum ones are about 12 pounds lighter, each.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Uhh.... i say the aluminum calipers warp rotors because people with aluminum calipers end up warping rotors more than people with iron calipers. &nbsp;Of course, these people are all track and autox nuts.

I also say aluminum calipers warp rotors because Nissan themselves replaced the aluminum calipers with iron calipers for turbo models at first, then later getting rid of the aluminum ones all-together, which is why it's easier to find iron calipers than aluminum ones. &nbsp;

Aluminum is weaker than iron. &nbsp;Calipers require a ton of force to stop a car. &nbsp;That excessive force is going to bend the weaker material easier, agreed? &nbsp; ANY inconsistency in the caliper is going to lead to uneven pressure distribution on the brake pad, which will translate into warping the rotor.

The Physics:
Take a 2700 lb 240sx. &nbsp;Assume the tires can grip at 1.00g, or 32ft/s/s. &nbsp;Assume the rotor is placed 2/3 of the radius from the tire contact to the axle. &nbsp;F = mA... so the force applied at the tire will be 1/4[4 tires](2700lbs)(32ft/s/s), or 21600 lbs/ft. &nbsp;this is the amount of torque the tire sees... but the rotor surface is around 2/3's the radius of the tire... so 2/3 rotor torque = torque on tire.... the force at the rotor = 32400 lb/ft. &nbsp;Now... we'll need a frictional coefficient of the brake.... which isn't very much, considering it's a kinetic coefficient between two alloys. &nbsp;We'll assume it's .5 (which may be high). &nbsp;To figure out how much pressure is applied by the caliper on the rotor: 32400 lb/ft = .5 (Fcaliper)... so the Force applied by the caliper is 64800 lbs/ft... roughly 32 tons/ft. &nbsp;Anyone think the aluminum might tweak just a tad bit more than the iron under heavy braking?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
(someone check my physics.... &nbsp;the actual numbers will be a bit more for the front brakes since the weight is dist. more to the front during braking, and you won't get 1/4 force to each tire.... more like 2/3 to the front.. or 1/3 to each tire... which will make that final number a bit bigger).

[BrokenHead]

On the power vs. handling topic:

You can make this really simple for yourself... If you care about auto-x/track/drifting performance, and not so much weekend warrior street driving, then suspension is a no brainer first. If you don't really hit the auto-x/track/mountain roads that much, then you better go with power first, b/c suspension isn't going to do dick for you on the streets, except get you smoked by ricers w/NAWZ. Plain as that.

[roast]

Aside from the current 300z brake upgrade... &nbsp;=)

First of all, we must understand that not every 240 driver is driving it because they want to auto-x. &nbsp;

I would do engine work before suspension, and brakes before suspension also. &nbsp; This is contrary to most views already expressed on this thread. &nbsp;I suspect that most people, who do agree with me, will not say anything for fear of being flammed... =)

Now, my driving experience is with all Ford.. until i got the 240... I learned how to drive in a 87 Turbo Coupe, then bought a 86 GT and finally a 89 lx. &nbsp;We all know, that Ford need a lot of work and a lot of money to make them handle somewhat, well. &nbsp; For all intensive purposes we will not discuss Fords.. =)

Getting my 240 was like a huge wake up call! &nbsp;I've never driven a car with this kind of handling capabilities. &nbsp;I was soo impressed with my car ability to take corners, at what i considered break neck speeds, that i almost poop'd my pants! (sorry i had to say it ... )

Furthermore, this attitude carried over, the attitude being that this is the best handling car i've ever owned, so why would i need to upgrade it (suspension) at the moment. &nbsp;In turn, i decided that a few minor upgrades such as exhaust, K&N, etc would satisfy the need for a smoother running engine and a little more power.

Since my little upgrades and burst of speeds tooling around with friends, i have noticed our ever present brake fade... I now would upgrade the brakes according to my budget.

For most 240 owners, who do not autox, this is the most practical solution. &nbsp;Especially since most of us came from the Domestic market of sport cars..

peace

[roast]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ April 08 2002,2:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jeff240sx @ April 07 2002,03:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ace, why do you say that Aluminum calipers warp rotors? Why would it be worse than iron? They are, after all, the same 4 piston calipers, just Aluminum ones are about 12 pounds lighter, each.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Uhh.... i say the aluminum calipers warp rotors because people with aluminum calipers end up warping rotors more than people with iron calipers. Of course, these people are all track and autox nuts.

I also say aluminum calipers warp rotors because Nissan themselves replaced the aluminum calipers with iron calipers for turbo models at first, then later getting rid of the aluminum ones all-together, which is why it's easier to find iron calipers than aluminum ones.

Aluminum is weaker than iron. Calipers require a ton of force to stop a car. That excessive force is going to bend the weaker material easier, agreed? ANY inconsistency in the caliper is going to lead to uneven pressure distribution on the brake pad, which will translate into warping the rotor.

The Physics:
Take a 2700 lb 240sx. Assume the tires can grip at 1.00g, or 32ft/s/s. Assume the rotor is placed 2/3 of the radius from the tire contact to the axle. F = mA... so the force applied at the tire will be 1/4[4 tires](2700lbs)(32ft/s/s), or 21600 lbs/ft. this is the amount of torque the tire sees... but the rotor surface is around 2/3's the radius of the tire... so 2/3 rotor torque = torque on tire.... the force at the rotor = 32400 lb/ft. Now... we'll need a frictional coefficient of the brake.... which isn't very much, considering it's a kinetic coefficient between two alloys. We'll assume it's .5 (which may be high). To figure out how much pressure is applied by the caliper on the rotor: 32400 lb/ft = .5 (Fcaliper)... so the Force applied by the caliper is 64800 lbs/ft... roughly 32 tons/ft. Anyone think the aluminum might tweak just a tad bit more than the iron under heavy braking?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
(someone check my physics.... the actual numbers will be a bit more for the front brakes since the weight is dist. more to the front during braking, and you won't get 1/4 force to each tire.... more like 2/3 to the front.. or 1/3 to each tire... which will make that final number a bit bigger).</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Ace - I'd agree that the front brakes will have more work to do then the rear brakes... &nbsp;your physics does look good, except for the coeffecient between the brake disc alloy and brake pads... &nbsp;There is a noticable difference between organic, semi-metallic and metallic pads... so again, each number would have to be adjusted. &nbsp;

It goes without saying, you buy cheap pads and rotors, you've got cheap brakes.

Remember, if your an autox freak, ace is saying that aluminum calipers might not be the proper choice. &nbsp;For all intensive purposes, the average driver, the aluminum calipers might be just what you need.

[Tuck&Poke]

well...once again i have failed to read all 60 posts but im a hp guru. &nbsp;i think the 240 has decent handling already and there arent really that many twisties down here in "hilly" florida. &nbsp;im going engine first and then suspension. &nbsp;i dont personally care for looks...no fru fru for me! &nbsp;matter o fact...body kits suck...fiberglass sucks. &nbsp;i want pure speed! with just enough comfort to make it a daily driver. &nbsp;my goal 600+hp daily driver on a ka-t and 1.0G on the skidpad and about 75mph on the slalom. &nbsp;although im far from that (really far) i have confidence that i can acomplish that. &nbsp;i hope automotive designers get paid a lot.

[sykikchimp]

The Reason aluminum calipers warp rotors is not because the flex, or move around while hard braking. &nbsp;Its because the dissapate heat faster than the iron rotors. &nbsp;Seems like you would want this, but fact is when a colder brake pad hits a hot rotor the rotor will be more likely to warp. &nbsp;Iron rotors do not cool as fast and keep themselves and the pads closer to the correct operating temperatures than aluminum would for the iron rotors.