Replacing Timeing Chain / OR Guide

[Powerzen2002]

Ok.  This question has been asked a million times, because I think its the most common problem.

I have a 1990 240SX.  I called nissan and they gave me a hard time about doing the time'ing chain and guide.  They said that its not a recall on this year.  I do NOT wanna do this myself because I do not trust myself on doing engine work!

Anyway, I was wondering if anyway has actually done a timeing chain replacement or timeing guide replacement and might be able to give me some info because I do NOT wanna end up replacing my engine in about 6 months when it goes.

My car ONLY has 58,000 Miles on it.  I just wanted to know if this can be done by someone who has not done engine work or major car repair before.  And if so, what do I need to do this repair.  Because I DO NOT wanna spend 600-800 dollars.

Thank you everyone for your replys, its appreciated!  BECAUSE I HAVE HAD IT WITH THIS RATTLE BULLSHIT!  EVERYONE WHO HAS THIS PROBLEM SHOULD SET A DAY OUT TO CALL NISSAN UP... COMPLAIN ENOUGH TO WHERE THEY WILL DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Thanks again.

Jason C.
Staten Island, New York

[boosteds14]

i believe it is worth paying the  nissan dealer because there are many reasons.
1.  u dont have the aggrivation
2. they almost guarantee it is done right
3. if u do it and dont know how, can cause more problems
4. for 600 bucks the engine can go for another guaranteed 100kmiles
5. u can get it out of the way for the future

[DuffMan]

Okay, a lot of people on this forum are making the mistake of automatically assuming that timing chain rattle means you need full timing chain service done.

I cannot stress this enough, FIND OUT WHAT'S CAUSING THE RATTLE FIRST. If you don't want to do it yourself take it to a trusted mechanic who isn't likely to inflate the problem to be more than it is.

The likely causes of timing chain rattle are 1. It's rubbing against a guide, or 2. A tensioner is not working properly.

The chain itself is usually not the problem.

[geeaj]

You forgot lack of oil pressure or oil starvation. Usually, when your oil pump starts to go, chain noise starts to happen, especially on startup.

[DuffMan]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (geeaj @ April 04 2002,4:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You forgot lack of oil pressure or oil starvation. Usually, when your oil pump starts to go, chain noise starts to happen, especially on startup.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
That's because the tensioners work on oil pressure.

So lets include that under #2 &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>.

[sykikchimp]

I would also be willing to bet that you don't need a chain replacement. &nbsp;Make sure you have a mechanic check the specific things they stated above. &nbsp;

Duff - what an excellent way to make a long explanation of a problem short. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[Powerzen2002]

Thanks everyone for your replys on this. &nbsp;I mean, the car only has 58,000K miles.... its highly unlikely its the Chain itself. &nbsp;However, is there anyway to check to see if my oil pump is going? &nbsp;If I can eliminate that possibility, then theres only 2 common problems left. &nbsp;

Either 1) &nbsp;The tensiors are failing ... or 2) the chain guide is cracked/broken.

How hard is it to change the oil pump? Is it a do it yourself? &nbsp;Or is it a 2 hour job by mechanic that will run me 200-400 bucks!

thanks again everyone. &nbsp;also, what are the symptoms of a failing oil pump ... and will it cause my chain or guides to have problems in the future if driven for a prolonged time as is?

[XxDriverxX]

Also, how har/expensive is it to fix the tensioners?

[sykikchimp]

A lot of time the tension is just really icky from oil build-up. &nbsp;I read a couple post from guys who got the chain cover off, and just started pushing it around and free'd it up, and taadaa.. no more rattle. &nbsp;Remember, nissan doesn't consider the chain a wear item, however you should check it while your there for signs of wear on the chain itself

I think the Oil pump is seperate from the chain cover on the SOHC but can't remember. &nbsp;On the DOHC it's a major pain because they are connected., but shouldn't be too bad on the Sohc.

[geeaj]

hehe. Thx duffman, I stand corrected. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

The oil pump on the sohc is really easy to replace. Located on the bottom left of the block - it is externally mounted.

You can find one for about $160 bucks.

[Powerzen2002]

Question:

What is the best way to check my oil pump? &nbsp;anyway of measuring pressure.... or tweaking. &nbsp;I really think I have low pressure ... that is maybe why my chain rattles. &nbsp;My mileage is way to low. &nbsp;Not to mention there is little where on the car it self in-general. &nbsp;So, before I try and attempt to check the time'in chain or tensioners ... Maybe easier to check the pump first! &nbsp;Unless there is a certain symptom that is obvious enough to tell whether or not the pump is going.

[S13Grl]

Do yourself a favor: take off the valve cover. On top of the upper chain, you will see a big metal piece that is the upper chain guide. It's located between the exhaust and intake cams. That piece is what was my torture for the last two months. I had strongly believed that I needed a timing chain job, I went around, got quotes and whatnot... I was ready to let someone do this for me. Then I decided to swap out my valve cover gasket. And upon doing this, guess what I found? My upper timing chain guide COMPLETELY broken off its base, just sitting there and hitting my valve cover and tapping on my timing chain. Interesting, huh? Needless to say, I removed it and left it in my garage. No more clicky noises! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

To remove the valve cover, all you'll need is a socket set (and some spare shop rags!!!<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>. I have the exact bolt removal pattern, I'll put that up when I get home from work tonight (I wanna make sure I've got it right).

DON'T SPEND YOUR MONEY !!! Just do this and you'll be happy!

[Powerzen2002]

Hey thanks S13grl... I really appreciate it! &nbsp;

I have the chiltons repair book ... it may have it in there. &nbsp;
But I was wondering if removing the chain guide will screw anything up as far as the time'in chain or whatever.

Also, when popping the cover off the engine, is there anything I should worry about? &nbsp;Will I need to replace the gasket? &nbsp;Or anything other than letting my lunch fall in there &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> &nbsp;haha. &nbsp;

But thanks again! &nbsp;I gotta do somethin bout this freakin rattle, its driving me nutz!

[S13Grl]

Make sure you don't get any metal particles in there at all. Also, you're gonna have to unscrew the three bolts holding the fuel rail down. Try and remove your PCV valve. I worked with it still being connected because mine was a pain in the ass to remove. That's just about it, really.

I doubt that Chilton's has the bolt removal pattern.

The upper timing chain guide really doesn't do anything at all... it just sits there... waiting to be broken off and cause worry to people. When properly connected and installed, all the guide does is put a barrier between the upper timing chain and the valve cover. The chain and the guide never touch unless the guide itself is broken, or the chain breaks (which is highly unlikely to happen unless you really torture the poor thing). When you take the valve cover off, try and move the chain left and right and back and forth. It should have NO slack what-so-ever. Make sure that is so!!!

I have some pictures that I took last night that i'll post up later on in the day.

[Powerzen2002]

Oh ok. &nbsp;Because I know a shop will rob me blind for removing it. &nbsp;Probably charge 2 hours labor... so im sure it would run me about 120 dollars.

I'm gonna attempt to do it in the next few days when it gets warmer here. &nbsp;Also, I gotta see if I can get the car in a garage.... dont wanna no debri in there.

The only thing is I hope Its not the oil pump mimicking a chain guide problem!