"top" mount intercooler setup

[Ian]

well, the time is coming for me to finally ditch my ghetto fab piping
seen here
http://x2.putfile.com/5/12516504764.jpg

but here's my dilemma.
I have a precision front mount intercooler, which basically requires me to either waste money on a hotpipe AND custom welding...or just get fully custom pipes, for probably 400 dollars or so.

I was thinking the other day, why not just do a V mount? The piping will be super short, making performance and throttle response dreamy.

here's my idea
http://x2.putfile.com/5/12609342271.jpg

as you can see, it's a fairly simple setup

on top of this of course, there will be a large drop vent in the hood with some ducting worked around to seal it (probably just bend the metal down some, possibly fiberglass a little and a rubber seal around the intercooler


is there any reason this wouldnt work out just fine for me? since it's so far ahead of the motor, i figure w/ proper ducting there would be little to no heat soaking...and due to the location of the venting and everything, there is no reason to worry about water getting in the vent in the hood

[SR240DET]

just remember... whatever route you do.... the heat is supposed to flow back and down underneath the car...

so... with your setup.. and a vent for the IC would help cooling down temps in the engine bay..... good luck man...

[MakotoS13]

isn't there supposed to be some airflow from the radiator fan back onto the engine to help with cooling? i think you're making a big deal out of nothing, man. you're going to save a a foot or so off piping and create a whole lot more hassle. if your motor doesn't need that air i say go for it but i can't see that it's worth it.

i suggest you just plan your piping very well and make it as to the point as possible. i modified a starion fmic to suit my exact plan.

[atom]

What exactly are you going to fabricate the ducting out of? That kind of dryer tubing looking stuff they usually use for brake ducts, sheetmetal or something else? Either way i don't think it's so great because that brake ducting would look ghetto as hell and if you're gonna do any kind of sheetmetal fabrication you might as well do a proper v-mount.

[s14srpilot]

Anything is possible but it sounds like you are trying to reinvent the wheel. My 2 cents: Why not keep it simple and just get a greddy s13sr vspl? They go for like $600 and already come with piping that will fit. If you can sell your core for $200 and dish out $400 (like you would to get custom piping made) cash outlay will be the same.

[HyperTek]

I think FMIC would be more effiecient.. the intercooler wil catch heat from the radiator, which would heatsoak... Should do a v-mount where the radiator is tilted backwards so the top is like right under it.. like ">[engine] "

[ThatGuy]

Yeah, V-Mount would be more efficient then the topmount idea you have drawn up. The shorter piping could help with pressure drop, but it won't cool efficiently in that position in my opinion. I don't know, someone with more experience step in here and explain what I'm trying to say, better. Thanks.

[Chernobyl]

So basically you're going to direct the hot air off your radiator onto your intercooler.... um... ????

You don't want an interHEATER, do you? Because that's exactly what you have right there.

[Steeles]

yeah the idea is sound but your plans are all wrong. the point of a v mount setup is to get fresh cool air to BOTH the radiatror and intercooler. I say go for it but take a look at how it's supposed to be done and rethink your setup. you really don't want to blow the hot air off the radiator through the IC.

[Andrew Bohan]

v mount is for race cars. front mount for street cars.

[matlock]

I think you should just spend the money and do it properly, but thats just how my dad raised me.....I think it will save you a lot of time and headaches if you do it the right way with either FMIC or proper V mount. I think you will be happier in the end since the car will run much more efficiently than if you were to not use the IC to its full potential and like someone else said have basically an interheater.

[Ian]

well this is why i posted.

i'm not trying to cheap out, it's just an idea that i had.


i completely overlooked the fact that the radiator will be really hot, making the air going through the intercooler too hot for use.

i also liked the idea of having a huge drop vent in the hood lol

can someone point me in the direction of a proper v mount layout (maybe a drawing or something to show me how it works)

i understand how the rad/ic is supposed to be set up but i dont understand how: 1 the air properly travels thru the radiator...and 2 how the air goes up thru the IC while still properly flowing thru the radiator

also, how does the radiator work in traffic?



THIS IS NOT A STREET CAR, therefore i figure having a V mount shouldnt be a problem (although i dont see how it's an issue on a street car anyways)

[cheez80]

can someone point me in the direction of a proper v mount layout (maybe a drawing or something to show me how it works)

please take a look at jdm rice ver. 2. the pink one. the signal cars also run a proper v-mount.


i understand how the rad/ic is supposed to be set up but i dont understand how: 1 the air properly travels thru the radiator...and 2 how the air goes up thru the IC while still properly flowing thru the radiator

most v-mount setups have a fair amount of ductwork that directs airflow to the proper locations.


also, how does the radiator work in traffic?

puller e-fans are usually mounted underneath to draw air through the radiator during stops or low speeds.


anyway, good luck! :) post photos if you do ittt!

[Ian]

Ah ok, I figured there would be a fan SOMEWHERE. But from the pics I've seen, I couldn't figure out where. I know there are ducts as well, I was really asking to see if anyone had real diagrams or examples of EXACTLY where they go. I'm trying to find a shop that's at least semi experienced with this kind of thing, because I want to keep the structural integrity of my front end still. I hope I can get this done over the course of this summer as well, because to be quite honest, it would be very cool to be the only person I know personally running a V mount lol.


Basically, besides the pipes I wanna do it myself after some guidance from a shop.

[atom]

To make a proper duct for the v-mount you just need to get some sheetmetal and box in the "V" from the side. Once you close in the sides, air entering the duct has nowhere to escape except up through the IC or down through the radiator.

[Andrew Bohan]

here's what corky bell has to say about ducting.

DUCTS. A duct is, in a large sense, form of streamlining of the core. The ducts present the air molecules with no alternative but to go on through the core. Do not underestimate the ability of a duct to improve the efficiency of the intercooler. I would suggest that an improvement of 20% is possible, good duct versus none. When constructing ducts, it is decidedly worth the extra effort to insure that the air molecules have no alternative but to go through the core. That is, seal all edges, corners, and joints.

It is not necessary for the duct inlet to be as big as the frontal area of the IC core. A rule of thumb is that the duct inlet should be at least one-fourth the core area. This rather strange situation is brough about by the fact that less than one-fourth of the air molecules would get though the core with little of no attention to ducting.

http://guernsey.globat.com/~mountainracer.com/pics/driftaholic/ducting.jpg

[Maeda]

YEAAAA uhh..
A proper Vmount is WAY WAY WAY more hassle in fab work then it's really worth.

Done right you...
Notch the radiator support
Enlarge the hole where the ac condenser used to be to fit the radiator
Get a special can with a radiator cap mounted at a high point in the system because your radiator will now be upsidedown.
You will need to fabricate brackets to mount the radiator upside down and the intercooler in between
It will be EXTREMELY good if you can get a radiator with the inlet and outlet on the bottom, and an intercooler with inlet and outlet designed for vmounting otherwise its just much MUCH MUCH harder to fab.
YOU NEED a vented hood otherwise don't waste your time
YOU NEED to do a full ducting job from the mouth of the car to the vent otherwise don't waste your time
You probably need to lose the bumper support to get enough area for ducting and BS... not a good idea....
Oh, and look at the underside of kuroi's car to see what will happen to your radiator after time..........

The good side is
Ignore what makoto said. You will lose about 3-4 feet of piping (atleast I did)
and the turbo response will be AMAZING.... but there are much much much easier ways to achieve this. (double stack fo' life)
It look amazing
It saves weight in piping and money in hose clamps =)

This is me talking from experience. (3 days cramming my shit together and fabbing brackets and deciding all the cutting would not be worth it and redoing it.)

And on a side note. SAY NO TO PUSHER FANS!
Puller fans work so much better because they don't block any of the the airflow.

[Ian]

so what are you running now?

i think i saw that you had relocated your radiator and mounted your intercooler low and in front of it

i think i may just end up doing this, the more i think about it, the more money i'm adding up for the V mount...the more i'm thinking, hey, who cares? lol

[sub9lulu]

do some search on the rx7 forum
there are ALOT of FD's running around with V-mount as the matter of fact i m planning on doing that
FC / FD got way more room than you S14, but here is the idea
http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8020
http://www.rotaryextreme.com/vmountmain.html

[MakotoS13]

i said he's wasting time cause his initial point was to save money or something, right? sure its a good design if you have the space, money, and are actually making enough power to need something so extreme. unless you're doin rally, in which case a front mount really isn't the best thing.

whatever, that lbue rex looks SICK.

[Maeda]

so what are you running now?

i think i saw that you had relocated your radiator and mounted your intercooler low and in front of it

i think i may just end up doing this, the more i think about it, the more money i'm adding up for the V mount...the more i'm thinking, hey, who cares? lol

Right now my cars apart... if you've seen the thread. =)

Im probably going to mount the intercooler where the radiator should be, and mount the radiator farther back ala'sportcompactcar. If I had a taller intercooler (and not a ghetto honda one) id mount it where the ac condenser used to be but with my current i/c it just isnt tall enough to get any flow like that.

[Gladman]

You're way better off modifying your rad support and mounting an intercooler right up against the radiator than running v-mount.

If you do this, you can have 90 degree pipes on your end tanks goin directly into your engine bay on either side of your radiator, and you can eliminate almost all your intercooler piping without all the disadvantages of a v-mount.

[Ian]

my intercooler core is fairly wide. I'll have to take more specific pictures and measurements i guess. I have canned the whole L-mount (or whatever my horrible idea was) lol. I see why it wont work. I want to give the V mount a go but i think it may not be possible. I may end up trimming the radiator support and pushing the radiator back a good 8" and mounting the intercooler right up against it. Then probably fabbing up some small vents to direct the air (probably just an under splitter from the bottom of the lip to the bottom of the radiator and a top cooling panel ala ER or one of the other companies that makes one)

[Maeda]

Then probably fabbing up some small vents to direct the air (probably just an under splitter from the bottom of the lip to the bottom of the radiator and a top cooling panel ala ER or one of the other companies that makes one)

Don't forget the sides and over the top of the i/c to over the top of the radiator.

[goodjuan]

granted this is an extreme example, air from the heat transfer doesn't have to flow under the car.
http://sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0504_scc_skyline_05_z.jpg
http://sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0504_scc_skyline_12_z.jpg

[Ian]

well yeah, i understand that...My initial plan involved a large hood vent, but i'm sure alot of people overlooked me saying that since it wasnt included in the picture lol


i think i'm going to end up doing what maeda did (considering it's nearly free) and relocating the radiator back and mounting the intercooler where the radiator goes.

[goodjuan]

well yeah, i understand that...My initial plan involved a large hood vent, but i'm sure alot of people overlooked me saying that since it wasnt included in the picture lol


i think i'm going to end up doing what maeda did (considering it's nearly free) and relocating the radiator back and mounting the intercooler where the radiator goes.

nah i knew you were going to, i was just replying to the guy who said the air has to flow under the car. gluck with your project, show us pics when it's finished!