Am I crazy, or is the shop just wrong?

[OptionZero]

Situation:

I'm trying to install my S15 diff, and the driveshaft bolts are torqued to kingdom come and my friend and I can't get them off. I call a shop to get a quote on the install.

My car:
1997 240sx. Open Diff.

The diff:
S13 pumpkin w/ s15 internals (HLSD + output shafts).

I need my S14 open diff removed, and the S13 one installed.
The S13 and S14 rear covers need to be swapped to mount onto the subframe.


The shop, Evolution Motorsport in Sac, says the s13 pumpkin absolutely will not fit onto an S14, nor can the internals of the S15 HLSD be swapped into an S14 open diff. They say the S13 mounts are different and won't work on the S14 chassis. They also say the only way to put an s15 HLSD in an S14 is to

A) put the whole s15 pumpkin on the s14, which i KNOW doesn't work, you need the driveshaft and the pumpkin is shaped far differently

B) put the internals into an S14 VLSD pumpkin case.


From what I've read, swapping diff covers it all it takes to put an S13 pumpkin on an S14.


So ...am I crazy and illiterate from the searching, or is Evo mistaken?

[s14srpilot]

Option B works from what I have read. You also need to install the ZENKI side skirts hahah j/k good luck

[OptionZero]

what i need to know is why they keep saying the s13 pumpkin will not possibly work on an s14, when guys like Dousan are running around with that combo!

hell, I called and said i'll bring everything by so they can SEE it, and they refused to even touch it! Bastards!

[ZK]

Hey Jon, looks like it didn't work huh? That's why you got to sell me the S13 pumpkin with the S15 HLSD :)

As far as I remember, the S13 rear diff is different than the S14 which is why it won't work. They just probably don't want to see it because they know what it is already.

[Ian]

when you order LSD's isnt it just VLSD or open replacement?

[SlowCoupe]

i know that s14 diffs can fit on s13s with rear cover changed...so maybe it can go the other way around

[wootwoot]

Eh f them, find a different shop. There HAS to be a way to do it. On another note, where the f did you get the lsd?? I would like to get one rather badly but no clue how

[krustindumm]

save the money spent on the install, and buy a nice impact :D

[michael1284]

yup have to use impact gun...theres no way i can even imagine trying to do it w/ out air tools...unless your arnold!

[Ritz S14]

Eh f them, find a different shop. There HAS to be a way to do it. On another note, where the f did you get the lsd?? I would like to get one rather badly but no clue how

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7969046521&category=33731&sspagename=WDVW

[wootwoot]

http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB9&Number=67804032&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
read that second post down and maybe PM him for some information?

[OptionZero]

i can vouch for that guy, he's an excellent seller. I got mine from him.

[OptionZero]

That freshalloy thread doesn't help that much, either...i have ALL the parts, the internals of the S15 HLSD have already been swapped...its just a matter of putting an s13 pumpkin on an S14 chassis, which, from what i've read...has no issues either than the rear cover, which is 6 bolts, easily removed (i could get THOSE off).

I asked Evo, who also did my 5spd swap, if they did anything special to my driveshaft bolts...and they said yeah...sometimes they get hard to take off.

Not only that, but Motorsports Dynamics is apparently booked for SIX TO EIGHT WEEKS, so none of the performance shops in 916 are avaiable.

Fuck that tho..i'm goin to my friend's mechanic, and this will be over by Thursday and i'll have my bitch ready for may 14 track day

[Drunk Bastard]

I am running a s13 welded diff on my s14 right now. IT BOLTS UP~!!!!!! dont worry. Main thing that you need to change is the diff cover. The s13 diff cover has an open atmosphere breather and the S14 diff cover has a nipple breather that you put a hose onto. (it's already on the car, you'll see it when you swap em out). Ok, so the main difference between the two pumpkins (besides the cover) is that the s14 diff has large holes and rubber spacers to go in there. To use the s13 diff, take the washer looking rubber piece from your s14...not the T shaped piece....and simply put that between your s13 diff and your s14 subframe. The two bolts that you attach the diff to the chassis have large washers and will secure the diff perfectly. So ignore what the shop said, and just do it yourself. It will only take about an hour if you know what your doing. If you have any questions, PM me.

GOOD LUCK :rawk: :rawk: :rawk:

[OptionZero]

I was all set to do it myself, but as mentioned in another post of mine, the drive shaft bolts refuse to come off (wd 40, double wrench, pb blaster, TWO GUYS....still nada).

I got an apptment with another place who can do it in under 2 hours. Thanks for the replies guys, I knew something was up.


Well, I didn't want to really talk shit about a shop , but chalk this up as a strike against Evolution Motorsport in the 916.

[Dousan_PG]

allow me t oget pissed off

tell those dirty mutherfuckers they are stupid and wrong
try and tell ME how the fuck my s13 diff is on MY s14?

fuckin idiots its incredible. i hope their shop burns because they shouldnt have a shop.


as far as the s15 in s14 stuff
they are wrong too
it goes in perfect w/o modification

also tell them to fuck off because my s15 subframe was on my s13 WITH a s13 diff in the s15 frame

ive seen s15 diff looks the same to me, r200

piss of shit shop.

i say ban them.

[OptionZero]

I dont know if any of their members post here, and I other people that have been there (with mixed reviews, admittedly). But I am simply going on my most recent experience with them, and I am not happy.

I'm sure they COULD do good work- they have a very awesome hachi with an SR in it for events...but for whatever reason it didn't work out. Take what I said as you will..I was more than willing to give them money for the job, and they didn't take it.

[s14xman]

If you want it done right, wait the six weeks for Motorsport Dynamics. You waited this long whats six weeks? Motorsport Dynamics knows their shiet as you already know, I wish i was still in the
9-1-Sickness so i could go there

[OptionZero]

six weeks no gaurantee. They said six to eight weeks.

Track day is May 14, I want it done BEFORE that.

I have heard the good things about Motorsports Dynamics actual work, and their booking probably speaks volumes about it...but that place is also BAAANNNKKK

[kazuo]

OptionZero,

Why not try contacting RCrew in Brisbane or BlackTrax in Milpitas?

There ARE other shops in the Bay... if you want it done before that event, you're going to have to be willing to travel. :P

Good luck

[nismo2491]

internals are the same between the 2, only difference is the cover. as far as s13/s14. not sure if s15 fits into s13 case though...

[Dousan_PG]

why dont you do ityousrelf?
i did mine just recently, took 2 hours with hand tools, messing around, maeda's smoke breaks and fluid cleanup
its not hard, just takes a bit of time and hand tools.

[Dousan_PG]

why dont you do ityousrelf?
i did mine just recently, took 2 hours with hand tools, messing around, maeda's smoke breaks and fluid cleanup
its not hard, just takes a bit of time and hand tools.

i do understand too hard to remove bolts
first time i took my s13 to shop said, loosen and tightend these diff bolts
they loosed w/ impact gun, tightned by hand
went home and swapped the diff.
cost? 20 bucks.

[dct223]

wow.. evo motorsports first saying u need some special s14 OBDII transmission, now they say u cant put in s15 hlsd internals in a s14 pumpkin... what next??? you need to have 5lug to run a SR?? lol....

just get a big breaker bar, use a box end of a wrench, have a frend help you loosen the bolts, while making sure your not stripping anything..

but yea there are other shops other than evolution motorsports... just becuase they did some crazy hachi swaps doesnt mean they are the holy grail of car shops.

[infinitexsound]

DOUSAN is the grestest.... sorry to jack ur thread and all got a question for DOUSAN tho... Dude hows the driving experience of driving a helical lsd..? any better any worse? all in all is it well worth the scrounging?

[OptionZero]

I can sorta answer that....the HLSD doesn't have any effect unless you're on gas in a turn (from what I understand). You should feel it "magically" rotating your car...which is the Torsen/Helical sending power to the outside wheel, urging your car to turn

I'm gion to C2 Automotive in Oakland on Thursday, another person recommended that place and had an LSD done there..

[ZK]

From what I hear it is like a Quaife LSD. Not a drift LSD - more for putting power down to get traction under cornering.

Anyone know how to get the S15 HLSD to work with the 5 bolt star shaped drive shafts? It looks like it only comes with the 3x2 design shafts.

[420sx]

that shop is ignorent and also its lying. we fitted that stuff even before, easy with 2 people and all the regular tools. one person hold it down on a chair, another breaks the bolts loose w breaker bar/torques etc.

[raen419]

allow me t oget pissed off

tell those dirty mutherfuckers they are stupid and wrong
try and tell ME how the fuck my s13 diff is on MY s14?

fuckin idiots its incredible. i hope their shop burns because they shouldnt have a shop.


as far as the s15 in s14 stuff
they are wrong too
it goes in perfect w/o modification

also tell them to fuck off because my s15 subframe was on my s13 WITH a s13 diff in the s15 frame

ive seen s15 diff looks the same to me, r200

piss of shit shop.

i say ban them.
lol, lovely dousan, lovely.

[wootwoot]

I'm good at being a dick and going offtopic. So how much power can an stock Nissan hlsd hold? Just checking to make sure there arent numerous reports of them blowing out or anything ridiculous like that. You guys make it sound like these things suck for drift/drag and are only good for road racing. Torsen torque biasing differentials are great for everything! They just constantly shift power from one wheel to the other really quickly so the wheels just arent really locked.

p.s. Dousan, you should invite him over for a case of beer and help him out with this *wink*

[420sx]

^ u said it urself. they suck. unless u are a stock ka doing auto-x.... not hating or nothing.

[OptionZero]

I would imagine that a Torsen sucks for drifting because it'll want to rotate the car, where as you want power distributed evenly so the drift is easier to maintain.

The stock s15 puts down what, 247HP flywheel, so i'll say 210 or so at the wheels. STOCK. I haven't heard anything about people swapping out HLSD's for power issues (only to swap in 2 ways to drift). A stock KA only puts down 120-130rwhp, so you could probably run up to 8 PSI and not have anything to worry about from the HLSD.

While I have read, true, that HLSD's don't take as much power as a clutch-type LSD, they also require far less maintenance, and are , from what I know, far less noisy.

besides, I'm planning to road race anyways, and which is what Torsen/Helicals/Quaifes excel at.

[wootwoot]

I mostly plan on road racing/daily driving. The 1/4 mile will be hit up a couple of times just for bragging rights and I'm sure I will end up taking my car over to the drift dudes just to play around, nothing serious. Goal for power is 250-275whp so I doubt I have much to worry about then =)

[infinitexsound]

word intresting.. iono i think i might get rid of this z32 lsd soon and switch over to something more desirable..like a 2way.. thanks guys for the info

[OptionZero]

UPDATE:
HLSD IS FINALLY FUCKIN INSTALLED

C-2 Automotive in Oakland took care of the job, asked questions to ensure they were doing it right, updated me along the way, and didn't bitch about a damn thing.

the only snag was the forward mounting points (2, just aft of the driveshaft) were longer on the S14 than the S13. To accomodate the longer bolts (about an inch), they simply used a nut to bridge the gap. Everything else was a straightforward swap. $210 with fluid, roughly 2 hours.

[S14DB]

Is is like buddah?

[XxJaPxOxNeEs23xX]

i had trouble with the bolts on the driveshaft too. i juss took a open end nd used a hammer to get em all off

[OptionZero]

With an Open diff, and shitty $35 used Dunlops and Falken ziexs (mismatched, at that)....any throttle in a turn felt terrifying because I thought the rear end was gone...

With Azenis Sports and the HLSD, from just a little hard driving today...

AHAHAHHAAHAHA>..stomp on the gas and the car just rotates and rotates whenever you want...can't wait to find some road to thrash this sucker

If I had sway bars and/or coilovers....I can't imagine the fun

TurdZ also remarks that the feel or q45 fronts (even with shitty metal masters) was spectacular. Can't wait for the Porterfields

[Dousan_PG]

hlsd sucks for drifting
but for grip driving it rules.

i used to have HLSD so i know.

[wootwoot]

I'm surprised it was only 2 hours. Top notch!

[wootwoot]

aiiieeeeeeee! I just ordered my S15 HLSD from the same seller. Will soon be ordering a clutch, light weight fly wheel, and light weight driveshaft all to be installed at the same time. Should make for a nice addition