The Industry.... and why it sucks.

[johngriff]

So by the time i was 14, my obsesion with everthing that burned gasoline was full bore. Dirtbikes, to mo-peds, volkswagens, jet-ski's big block, small block, if it consumed air and fuel, and spit out a nice mix of horsepower, carbon dioxide and exxcess gasoline, i was in.

Thats also around the time i found I had nac for putting all these elixer consuming masterpeices together and apart. I was a pretty big nerd in school, until i started giving girls in 8th grade rides home in my VW. Thats when i figured this whole mismash sex, gasoline, money, and cars thing.

This eventually grew into a thirst for alpha male superiority, solely enforced by not short of pure raw speed. A grand culmination of money, smarts and power hitting the asphalt in an explosive haze of liquid-gas rubber.

Beauty.

SO i said, heh, i'll work on cars. Heh, i'll get paid for it. Heh, i'll make enough money to go race. Soon it turned into business, then to pain, and when looking at my own cars i said, " i cant even look at you right now"

To any future entreprenuer heres some advice. Stay away from the auto industry, fact is, you will NEVER GET RICH TURNING WRENCHES. You will always be undersold on parts. And the customers, well that is the nightmare i am writing about.

SO i close down, Now, im back to putting together my project cars, back to dreaming big, doing big things, outside the "jdm" box so to speak, and not seaking the aproval of a tight walleted consumer to try these big bad out of the "jdm" box things.

So, no more customers, then, you know, a friend, of a friend, of a friend calls. Heh, can you wire up my harness?

"Uh i dont have a shop any more"

"no its cool XXX said you were good"

"Uh i dont know"

"Please"

"fine, what is it"

"can you wire up a 20v for me?"

"thats it?"

"thats it."

So thinking to myself, i want to get off the phone, i want to just go away, i say ok i'll scare him.

"yeah, that will be 500 dollars"

"ok"

WHAT!! jesus, just leave me alone.

So he tows the car to my house, remember i no longer have a shop. Ok, i'll wire it up. Next day i come outside, where corolla is now open the hood. BOOM, its a fucking disaster. I call him "what is this?"

He tries to explain to me how the 16v maf will work (it wont) and how the ignitor and coil should run off the 16v harness. (never done that before)

So im like, Ok I'll try it. Oh yeah, forgot to meniton that the ENTIRE HARNESS IS UNWRAPED, and cut in random places. So i wire up the maf and the ignitor. Nothing, no sensors are working, why? sensor main power runs through ignitor. So, ok, im already in 14 hours (the harness is a disaster) I call him and say,

"im gonna have to charge you more, to keep wiring like this, Its gonnan end up being like 1400 when all is said and done, but i'll do you a favor, keep the labor rate @$500, and we'll get another harness (max $450 brand new JDM from toysport) and it'll be fixed.

"uh i dont know"

So he has me call like 20 people who told him it could be done the other way, and didnt know shit from shine.

now its been like 2 weeks, he wont commit to another harness, and nobody has a fucking clue. so...

Finally he calls me and is like, i need my car this week, i say, well got another harness,

No
Ok, so wtf do you want me to do. Well uh, i was gonna take it to another shop, but like, i dunno, I know you put in all those hours of labor but like, I only have $500 and i need to get the car running with that.

So i say fine, give me $300

Hes like well you know, like, I dunno

I say, whatever, give me $100 fucking dollars, and have it out by tommarow.

Now, i know i should have just put a lien against it, i know I should have not even touched it, i know, I know i know, but i just wanted him out of my sight, this little vietnamiese kid really had no idea, he now symbolized every snot nosed little asshole i ever ran into working in the "import industry"

and that why im out. Low ballers, little kids, tight wads, drama, im just over it.

I trained at a ferrari shop when i really leared how to work on cars, the customers there alloted time, understood it took money to go fast. This "group" of import enthusiast will never grasp that.

Demographically they are 16-22. At this age no one really makes alot of money, and as soon as they do, it's off to BMW, mercedes, Infinity ect. Even im getting the itch to dump the cheap imports as well.

So that it, no more, and if are deciding to "go into business" good luck, seriously be an asshole, keep you're mouth shut, always ask questions, always admit when you dont know somthing, and charge enough money to eat, becasue you're worth it, never UNDERSELL YOU"RESELF.

I'll still be around the forums, but Im gonna be a racer like i wanted to be, not sombody who builds half baked cars, for customers to cheap to really go fast.

Peace.

JOHN GRIFF

BTW: IF you hate me even more after this post...... Im probably talking about you!!


J/K

[citizen]

preach on brutha!

[Phlip]

John, you were not kidding at the end of that post and we all know it... Some of us even appreciate the honesty

[Dutchmalmiss]

couldn't have said it any other way.

[nissantuner22]

Its true. Kids wanna go fast, untill they realize college costs money, and they settle down with a family...have kids... and buy a SUV.

[RiversideS13]

I believe that is true voice of most of tunners. so lessons are here kids,

1. some tunners doesnt know you ghetto mod or internert rumor
2. half done project is the worst, they hate to fix other people's crap
3. tight budget, then dont even start it!

[xero]

I don't know if anyone could have said it any better, and everyone who has been on your side, or atleast not on the otherside, knows EXACTLY what you're talking about.

[Phlip]

Likew the people at my job who want me to put shit on their cars, the stereo some other jackass fucked up putting in, or to do their brakes while they stand over me and talk my motherfucking ears off, or even down to some chick that buys a car and wants me to teach her to drive stick AND put her intake on... The bad part? NO ONE WANTS TO FUCKING PAY!
... I usually "have some other shit to do to my own car," so as not to have to entertain the non-paying people, whether or not we actually do shit to it

[mjjstang]

fuck autoindustry is where its at, just not turnin wrenches
at least i hope cuz ill have wasted 4 years of my life but man ur so right on this shit

[sw20>>s14]

auto industry was good about half a decade ago, but now it is gone (from shops/mechanic's p.o.v.). too many cheap kids and too many shops that are willing to charge less and less (more competition, but cant say much for the quality that's going around). IMO, the future lies in bikes. a lot of attention is on sportbikes, dirtbikes, motards, ect. within just the last 2-3 years. be a duc mechanic, thats were the $ at

[mk20116]

...............................

3. tight budget, then dont even start it!

right on most, but you have to maximize your funds. you should have some type of budget before getting started. otherwise you would be back to #2 & #2 again.

[HyperTek]

driving in the 8th grade?? da fuck!?!?

[johngriff]

i didnt know there were so many shop guys on here, sorry i just had to vent, im finnaly done, and this has just been making me :barf:

yeah, i was driving in 8th. No licence, me, i guess im just trouble (repeated to me repeatedly by girls, and school administrators)

so thanks, i just hope that sombody will read this and find a more profitable feild to excell in...



just a thought...

John Griff

[Andrew Bohan]

i worked for a shop for about a month. it was fun work, but the owner couldn't pay me. he kept sayin he'd be able to start payin me "soon" but it never happened so i had to leave. i learned a lot working there though. i learned that i want a lift and air tools. haha

[ZK]

There are people who make a living on wrenching, you just have to get the right kind of customers. Not the people who are just looking for the cheapest way to do something. Unfortunately with the growing demographic of 16-20 year old kids wanting modified cars, they don't have money. I don't see shops like XS and the many Evo/STI tuners out there struggling - because the people who go there are prepared to pay the price for speed.

[Sil Beer S13]

haha nice you speak the truth.

[Drunk Bastard]

sticky situation to be in. good to see your resolving it tho...

[SoCalS14]

I don't turn wrenches. But I have been that 18 year old kid, but now I'm 28. Its been a learning curve. Now I can do somethings myself and the enjoyment of it is great. But sometimes, and this is really what I learned over the years, you need to spend some fuck'n money and be patient. My motor swap comes to mind. Yea, I had someone put it in, but it runs perfect. Sure it took two weeks, but its been running strong for 6 months. Worth it in my world.

So don't be too hard on the youngsters...They will grow up and learn. Its the 28 year old guy, harassing you about why his shit isn't done, and trying to low ball you, that deserves the criticism. Kids will be kids, and as long as the older guys make going fast look cool, thats what they will want.

Face it, now I have a nice looking, fairly fast little 240 and every kid looks and asks.

Sometimes I get the feeling we bring it upon ourselves.

[G_Fish240]

How would the 16v maf work with the 20v, I thought 20v were map sensored?

[sw20>>s14]

Kids will be kids, and as long as the older guys make going fast look cool, thats what they will want.

Face it, now I have a nice looking, fairly fast little 240 and every kid looks and asks.

Sometimes I get the feeling we bring it upon ourselves.

maybe true, but they still have to draw the line somewhere. truthfully, i am these "kids" that you guys speak of. however, the difference is that i know my limits and i act/spend accordingly. the problem is that kids are impatient and feel the need to prematurely take on lifestyles that they cant fund. i personally know a lot of girlfriends that go to bouche (sp?) restaurants and cafes only to be tied up in theyre own debt. thats not the right time to do these things. when you get a stable job, scratch that, career , thats when you can do the same activities. just like tuning cars. its a hobby/passion that requires a lot of time and money. if you dont have the funds, stop putting legitamate shops with decent prices down by lowballing. take it easy and go with the flow. just be content and work with what you have...

btw...im ready for your rebuttals so in regards to my sig:

1. notice my 240sx is a project that cost me 1800
2. i sold my mr2 turbo because i realized that i couldnt afford the price of tuning it on top of the price of the car.
3. yes, i do have a motorcycle, and i wanted to upgrade after having my bike for a mere 3 months. i was going to get a new gixxer or yammy, but came to my senses and realized that i have plenty of time ahead of me to upgrade. so ever since, i made the decision to keep it, i have enjoyed it and have been satisfied with it more than ever.

[johngriff]

two 20v engines, early series (silver top) which utilized Mass Airflow Meter

and later generation (black top) which utilized Manifold absoulute pressure sensor.

[RiversideS13]

Actually it is true that most of us learn from the buttom end like the youngester as well. I think it doesnt hurt to try or experience your own installation, but you just have to expect to pay more if you mess up. Because it was originally as installation...but now it is installation + repair

[infinitexsound]

i feel yah man low ballin kids... expect a showroom paint job with 800 bucks lol please....... get a maaco makeover..... im 21 so i think that excludes me from the situation, plus im in the industry so... too look good or go fast always equals more money ... but u know whats great is seeing theyre own work... doing bondo without a block and paintiin on top of that with barely any primer work.... its a classic... im sorry man u had to shut down ur shop thats sad... a passionate person about cars had to stop because stupid customers and there crap ways of doing things... u should of just told him to take it to either 20 of those person u called and keep 100 bucks for giving him the advice... hahahahahha thats funny..

[Rezlo]

John, I hear you,

My first was a 1671cc Dune buggy I started building at 12 (took 3 years)much to my parents disgrace, went threw the whole, dirt bike, street bike, VR6-tt then moved onto touring car fabrication and now drag and muscle cars here in Chi-town... Ive worked for myself for a while but mostly for other people in this industry, besides everyone jumping on the band wagon after the Fast & Fuggly with a box of walmart tools pretending to be tunners and breaking peoples cars (which then I normaly got to try figure out) I think one of the worst things in this industry is Ebay and Cheap parts that arnt worth their weight in scrap metal, Its hard to explain to a kid on a budget why to use a $1000 intercooler kit that actualy fits Vs. buying a $150 ebay leaking IC and having his local meineke bent up some piping, yes it works, somtimes but how will it hold up to anything?

I to got so sick of the BS ive pulled out and with my degree in PC networking can hopefully make the 9-5 job pay for my hobby "fast cars" for the weekend, probably find besides being a lot less stressed Ill probably have LOADS of extra money and time for my hobby and to not have to deal with the "cheap" side of performance.

Even though my work I was doing till 2-3 weeks ago was 7-800cubic inch monsters tearing the strip up in 6 seconds of faster ive always been an "import" person, growing up in South Africa I was into the whole VW craze with lots of air and watercooled beasts runnign around, came to the US and realy got into the V6 mitsubishi side with my current car being a 450whp Chrysler Cirrus with a blown 6g72 SOHC out a 2004 eclipse, now owning a S14 200SX and a few of my buddies back home with identical cars its like a whole new learing side for me to try figure out the easiest ways to make the most reliable power in these, pitty that the US actualy has more SR20det support than anywhere else but its all so mixed up cause its LHD vs. RHD and my factory realy wackey ecu compared to the 1/2 swaped and cut US ways to get it to work, hard to know what to read. My car is staying stock till i recover but my buddies S14 is going under the knife, should be fun helping as a friend and bystander VS actualy doing the work for a change.

[evilimport]

John your a good man for starting this thread...A+ on execution and I couldnt agree more...cars cost money, slow cars that are modified to be faster cars cost hella more money....

[driftyour40]

Well, I would have to say it works both ways, prices on part are stupid sometimes, and some shop owners charge way to much for their services. I'm not saying you do I'm just saying some shops do. Sometimes it's worth it to pay for something if the shop really does good work, even if it may seem a little steep. You are right though the industry dose suck, I'm working on becoming a third generation technician but I'm just getting my certification to prove I can, and to have greater automotive knowledge, I think I'm going to do something different for a living.

[SR240DET]

I believe that is true voice of most of tunners. so lessons are here kids,

1. some tunners doesnt know you ghetto mod or internert rumor
2. half done project is the worst, they hate to fix other people's crap
3. tight budget, then dont even start it!

what the hell is a tunner?!?!? i hear the honda dudes calling each other "tunners" sounds like ricer lingo to me for some reason......

[sepulchral]

i didn't read ANYTHING you said because i hate stories

[johngriff]

I really dislike the word tunner as well. But, i guess it become a staple of our enviroment.

A tuner should be though, someone who can repair everything related to the vehicle. After you can repair everything, you can upgrade everything. If you are worse off than a repair shop mechanic, but you know how to install nitrous? This will not be a good thing, for you, or the customer.

Sepulchra? what, I was just saying, i like fast cars. And that i really like MY fast cars.


John

[Andrew Bohan]

to me, a tuner is someone who precisely adjusts or modifies something to make it work exactly the way he wants it to work, be that engine, suspension, whatever.

repair and maintenance is done by a mechanic or technician. of course, one person could do all of that.

[urbanimpakt]

This post speaks the truth

I'm going to school right now officially as a Collision Repair Specialist (associates degree) but right off the bat I knew I didnt want to be working on cars the rest of my life so after talking to my advisor I've recently added my schools Automotive Technologies Management (bachelors degree) on top of that. Just from dealing with customers last year and this year in our shop I've realized that I didn't want to "wrench" on cars for the rest of my life. Working at a dealership in an office doesn't sound to bad to me.

[DT3]

Boy that sounds familiar... you sound like my husband that will never learn or listen and constantly stress about money. One poor bastard after another and one cheap workshop after another where they just don't want to pay you the money they owe you. Its like wtf, nobody works for free. And they think its cool to rip you off cuz you like working on cars and you are friends cuz they invited you to their house once or twice with your girlfriend/wife so its totally cool to screw you over, they give you a card for X-mas and a teddy bear and send you on your way (as if that is supposed to pay your rent).

And I do say I told you so but all I get is "i dont have money to pay for rent"... I'm sorry to say but if this marriage doesn't work out I am NEVER going to marry another guy who's married to cars! It's not a hobby its an obsession.

Glad to hear you managed to "get out" John.

[Cypher5150]

Wow & I thought it was just my area!! I am in the industry as well but in the midwest. You guys know how it is, Everything dwindles down the midwest after a year or so of being popular everywhere else. I do mostly Hondas & some Nissans, Lately its been all Dsm. Yea I'd rather just work on the Nissans, But that is not going to pay my bills. I also do Audio sales and installs. Do I like it, HELL NO.... Especially since the kids you guys are refering to make up 90% of our business.They want it all for nothing. Just in the last 2 months I have done 2 evo3 swaps in Talons for high school kids... Neither wanted to pay the labor to do the swaps. They sit there and haggle about the cost until finally you realize that you have to take what you can get. Tell them you're hooking them up & get 70% of what you would originally charge. No one sees the situation you are in when you own, run a shop, or turn wrenches... If its between making something or nothing, We're always going to try to make something. So you can't let them walk out the door. Our nearest competition is over 50 miles away, you would think this would give us some kind of foundation to hold our prices steady. It doesn't!! The biggest competitor of any shop is the internet. I am not putting it down, Hell I have bought off the net. Sometimes you just can't beat what its selling for on Ebay. I do advise people to use caution though, I know alot of people who have been burnt. But one of the things that really bugs me is when someone brings me a part they got off of the net somewhere and then ask me to install it for them. Its a smack in the face, Then adding insult to injury they want you to do it for nothing. I can't count the number of times I have been given the wrong part to install, I tell the customer that its wrong and somehow it becomes my fault & they ask me what I can do about it.. Absolutely nothing because you didn't buy it from me in the first place!!
Needless to say, This industry is screwed if its not a distributor sending the wrong part, or not giving you enough room to sell it at a reasonable retail price, Then its the customer complaining about the price or the time it takes...

[WanganRunner]

Auto industry <> import performance parts business.

The auto industry is absurdly profitable. I analyze big franchised dealer financials for a living (I do acquisitions), and I can tell you that they rake it in. Why intentionally limit yourself to customers that are snot-nosed dreamer drift-kiddies? The big boys don't, so why should you? Sell cars, sell some other service to another demographic (towing, or salvage, or whatever).

Unless you have some kind of super-special angle, you're never going to make money selling performance parts unless you have SERIOUS seed capital from an outside source and can compete on price. Ever wonder how, even if you have an HKS wholesale account, you see Hi Power exhausts on ebay for cheaper than you can get them for? You think those sellers are selling them at a loss? NO, of course they aren't....they buy volume, BIG volume, and they're cutting individual custom deals with HKS for like 10,000 units at a time. If you lack the capital to do that, then you can't compete with them.

A tuning shop is a neat thing to have, but it really can't be your entire business unless you have some sort of name recognition. Kosuke Kida can do it because he's Kosuke Kida, but that doesn't apply to us.

DT3: Damn, you are one angry-sounding woman.

[chlatboy]

Tuners actually work on their cars. Ricers don't. "hey man how much u charge to put in suspensions?!"

[DT3]

DT3: Damn, you are one angry-sounding woman.

That post just hit way too close to home. If you had a significant other that came home every night after working 12 hours a day busting their ass for someone & complaining that he didn't get paid as much as he agreed to and you're short on money for the month (every month) you wouldnt be pleased either. I was supportive but this whole situation happening over and over again with changing jobs and working so much and all the stress from the lack of money took a toll on our marriage. I'm sick and tired of deadbeats that don't want to pay, when their water or cell phone bill comes in the mail I bet you they don't say they have no money... their utilities would get turned off.

[ruthlesstyper]

John Griff: What middle and high school you go to? I grew up in Long Beach. What shop did you run?