Blasphemodification

[MakotoS13]

okay, we all know that while the engine choices for our cars are plentiful thehigh powered NA variety remains untapped. after seeing an LS1 powered 240 that gained LESS weight than an RB swapped machine i started thinking:

-ford's 302 is lighter and smaller than chevy's small block

-chevy's LS1 is lighter than the RB

-300 ft lbs tq is hard to argue with

-5.0's are more plentiful than KA's and especially SR's and even more so RB's

so here i am, on the fence trying to find information on a 302 swapped S13 that has to exist somewhere. custom motor mounts, tranny mount, oil pan, driveshaft.. whatever. i want dependable torquey NA power and short of finding a totalled/drivetrian intact Z33 it isn't gonna happen with a nissan powerplant.

after searching for days i can't find any 302 powered S13's.... anybody know anything? somebody else has to want some good ole pushrod V8 happiness... anybody?

[HaLo]

I knew someone in Quebec City that swapped a LS1 in a 240sx. Never heard how it turned out though.

I am surprised about the weight... I never was a big fan of the RB sway. I always thought the extra 2 cylinders in the front would unbalance the car too much.

[nismo2491]

there's a guy down my way that has a mid 11's s13 fastback w/ a blown 350.
KEvin

[Var]

-ford's 302 is lighter and smaller than chevy's small block

-chevy's LS1 is lighter than the RB




this confused me...is the 302 in full trim (with aluminum heads) lighter than the Ls1 in full trim?

[wootwoot]

That was impressive until I heard blown. If you drop a 350 in s13 and STILL need to give it some F/I help thats just poopy. My search continues for the elusive import V8. To bad ohc engines take up so much space. Engine of choice for me if I liked the big boy v8's would be the LS1. I dont even know where to start with looking for a smaller displacement v8, its such a bitch ya know. MAKOTO!! We WILL have our v8 powered cars some day!! Viva La Revolution!

[Phlip]

wootwoot, if I am not mistaken, OHV engines are physically wider than are OHC engines...

[MakotoS13]

i just found this:

http://168.9.26.28/2404.jpg

that fuggin V8 takes up about as much space as my stupid sohc...

[Var]

phlip...OHC engines are wider . they have wider heads cause there are more parts that need to fit in them

[thx247]

(D)OHC is not going to work in the S13, and to date I have not heard about any 302 swap.


/Edit, Typo.

[Phlip]

And do you care to tell why, with any amount of fabrication that will HAVE to take place with such a swap, that a 302 (or any OHC engine) would not fit in Doug's S13, ESPECIALLY with one pictured just 2 posts above your own?

[atom]

OHC is old news, someone (I even think it was posted here) did a 1UZ swap and I've seen pics of a vh41de in a S13 (both were done by Aussies IIRC, LOL). Too bad those engines are heavy as hell compared to a LS1.

[MakotoS13]

OHC is old news, someone (I even think it was posted here) did a 1UZ swap and I've seen pics of a vh41de in a S13 (both were done by Aussies IIRC, LOL). Too bad those engines are heavy as hell compared to a LS1.

i'd take an 302 before some ricer wet dream homo errotic 2Jz any day of the week.

[90RS13]

I was wondering when you would start a thread about this. You've talked about it a couple times before. On OHC engines, lookin at the pic I see plenty of room still. I could easily see a modular fitting in there. Also, didn't someone post, not too long ago a S13 with a toyota OHC engine?

[HaLo]

Makoto, the 1UZ it the Toyota V8 like in the SC400... not the Supra Engine.

[wootwoot]

Thats the motor I have been most considering if I was to get rid of the sr20.
This makes me giggly (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts/Toyota/Engines-drive-trains/auction_photo-21362723/permanent-0/photoid-7400525/title-toyota+1uz+v8.htm)
This is marine related but take it (http://www.rbbi.com/folders/show/97imtec/toyotapc.htm)

Now I just wish I could find some more info to share =(
Not to many people actually tune these I suppose.

I'm going to go research the 3uz-fe a bit which is what most of the teams using the Supra have as their engine for the GT500 class. If you are interested for more information after that junk I can post it up. If not i'll just shush and leave you gentlemen to your push rods and sohc's =P

[S14DB]

Thats the motor I have been most considering if I was to get rid of the sr20.
This makes me giggly (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts/Toyota/Engines-drive-trains/auction_photo-21362723/permanent-0/photoid-7400525/title-toyota+1uz+v8.htm)
This is marine related but take it (http://www.rbbi.com/folders/show/97imtec/toyotapc.htm)

Now I just wish I could find some more info to share =(
Not to many people actually tune these I suppose.

I'm going to go research the 3uz-fe a bit which is what most of the teams using the Supra have as their engine for the GT500 class. If you are interested for more information after that junk I can post it up. If not i'll just shush and leave you gentlemen to your push rods and sohc's =P
There is a hot rod shop that makes a compelete install kit for this in '32 Fords. Don't have the info off hand.

Having worked on the 302 I can say it's a SMALL motor. I was not suprised how well it fit. Now you just have to stroke it out to 347 and add a blower for some madness.

[MakotoS13]

crap, i figured he just made a typo so i autoputmyfootinmymouth.

anybody have any info on whether or not Power steering and AC can be retained?

[wootwoot]

2uz seems to be almost identical to the 1Z but slightly larger in displacement and newer. The goal of the engine was to provide thicker torque than in its predecssor

[S14DB]

crap, i figured he just made a typo so i autoputmyfootinmymouth.

anybody have any info on whether or not Power steering and AC can be retained?
Well, it's not hooked up in that shot you posted.

[Phlip]

Having worked on the 302 I can say it's a SMALL motor. I was not suprised how well it fit. Now you just have to stroke it out to 347 and add a blower for some madness.
And there is a cat that works with me with that 347 and a Vortech S-Trim that recently dyno's well north of 600 horses

[TiNMAN]

this is what my google search came up with, http://www.drifting.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-10642.html yea, its from the boys from drifting.com, its a VH41DE

[G_Fish240]

Makoto what do you plan on doing with your car(what type of events)?

[MakotoS13]

events? events are for homos. i plan on driving the hell out of my car. i dont need to be a mad tyte drifta or autox all star. i love driving to drive, not win awards.

[TokyoNights]

Just buy a fuckin mustang if you want a 5.0 so bad
but I guess crossbreeding is popular in texas
Homo errotic 2jz? haha have fun with your dinosaur pushrod

[S14DB]

Mustangs are overweight sloppy pigs.

[TokyoNights]

And that red 5.0 coupe, the guy is on 240sxforums, he posted vids and everything
If a v8 was going in my car it would be the powertec made from 2 hayabusa engines.. 383hp at 10,000rpm :yum:

[Ian]

there's a burgundy LS1 S14 in houston


look up Aries on NICOclub.com

[MakotoS13]

Just buy a fuckin mustang if you want a 5.0 so bad
but I guess crossbreeding is popular in texas
Homo errotic 2jz? haha have fun with your dinosaur pushrod

dinosaur pushrods have been kicking the piss out of supercars for the last fifty years, chuckles. have fun with your denial.

i like my 240, its the most fun car i've ever driven. i'm just trying to find the right engine for my purposes because despite the JDM craze and what not i don't see the motor i want readily available.

[TokyoNights]

denial...I make more hp than the average small block and do twice the mpg :rofl:

[MakotoS13]

yeah, bragging about peak power is what the average ricer would do...

so how much torque are you makin at 1500 rpms?

[TokyoNights]

so how much torque are you makin at 1500 rpms?
Who cares?
If I wanted to tow id have a diesel

[MakotoS13]

so you're saying all you care about is peak power rather than power on demand?

interesting...


wait... you get like 50mpg? what're you drivin a fuggin echo?

[TokyoNights]

No, wether youre into drag/track/drift you keep the engine on boil
I dont know about you but my rpm's dont drop to 1500 between shifts

[MakotoS13]

nobody said you'd be shifting at 1500 rpms. i'm just curious to see what your power level is in that range. hell, i'd be willing to bet you're well into your upper rpms before you're making close to your peak power.

why is it that a fox body stang needs 600 hp to get in the 10s when it takes supras way more than that? USEable torque and PEAK torque are NOT the same thing.

[jOeHaCk98]

Do it yourself. S13. Cheap. Get someones clip from an sr swap, get then engine of choice and work on it while you still have ur s13 to drive. I want an LS-1 in my s14 :)

[HyperTek]

get an FC and a motor mount kit and your done..

[nissantuner22]

Just for the record, I found that pic first Makato. So poop on you.

If I were you, I would just swap in an RB. Although its not mainstream, people make mounting kits for it, and the aftermarket support is slowing increasing. An RB20DET can be had for cheap, and a turbo inline 6 is sweetness. I like there valve train too.

[justinhustle]

obviously the best choice makato is clearly the EWB

[wootwoot]

Whoever said something about the powertec, sounds like a good idea!! Give me 20 thousand dollars and I will put it in my car k? Also if you keep a tab on that engine before scc started throwing it around you would know they have gained more hp through exhaust tuning and that regular tuning. They will also be offering it in the 3.0 version which will have more torque, and less high end performance. So more of a street engine. For a while I was looking into building a rb30 but it doesnt seem that I would be satisfied for what it cost. If you guys dont quit the dumb bickering I will beat you with a stick

[nissantuner22]

if wootwoot takes the stick out, im leaving the thread.

[ThatGuy]

Here is the argument Makoto really needs. If he drops a Ford 302 V8 into his S13, how much tuning and work will it take to reach ~300hp/300ft lbs. in relation to ANY Nissan engine available. The 302 must remain N/A, however the Nissan engine may be F/I. Keep it civil, and stick to the facts. Remeber we are talking tuning here. I know there are plenty of Nissan engines that can push 300 ponies, now just make a good argument around it.

[jOeHaCk98]

302 DOESNT HAVE TO REMAIN N/A. Supercharged, Turbo Charged, NOS 302's have all been done. Not to mention they have street legal turbo kits for 302's, Insane power.

[ThatGuy]

I understand that a 302 can have forced induction, however Makoto is looking at N/A to try and save himself on tuning headaches. That's why I ask for the facts I did. Thanks for the info though. :D

[nismo2491]

302 w/ good intake manifold, intake pipe, throttle body, heads, cam, exhaust, headers should net you around where you want to be makoto. I don't have much mustang experience but I do have some.
KEvin

[Zemus]

But put a 13b in there, the Turbo II 13b, s5, mmm

[wootwoot]

Yeah, I say 13b as well, those things have an assload of low end torque. Think ls1, full exhaust, cam shaft with computer tuning. Right there you have 450bhp or so. 302 has an iron block, atleast I think it does, so that is out of the question in my eyes.

[atom]

Yeah, I say 13b as well, those things have an assload of low end torque. Think ls1, full exhaust, cam shaft with computer tuning. Right there you have 450bhp or so. 302 has an iron block, atleast I think it does, so that is out of the question in my eyes.

Why does having an iron block matter?

[Phlip]

And on what planet is a 13b a reliable engine, keeping into consideration comparative cost, when placed against a 302?

[wootwoot]

Why does having an iron block matter?


This is one of those things you SHOULD be able to figure out on your own.... Think for a minute then respond again



p.s. 13b's are extremly reliably in n/a form. They can be reliable with forced induction IF they are tuned right. Not many people do tune them right though so BOOM

[S14DB]

You should put a APU in there.

[atom]

This is one of those things you SHOULD be able to figure out on your own.... Think for a minute then respond again



p.s. 13b's are extremly reliably in n/a form. They can be reliable with forced induction IF they are tuned right. Not many people do tune them right though so BOOM

If you think it's weight, you're a dope cuz a 302 with an iron block and aluminum head weighs about the same as an all aluminum LS1 and much less than a lot of all aluminum DOHC V8's except the northstar which weighs just marginally more.

So what's your reason? :rolleyes:

[blu808]

ooo a northstar engine. :naughty:

Thats what i want to do, after i blow up my current motor.

[publicenemy137]

LS1 + SLP engineering supercharger = 450 rwhp off the bat = teh win

I've seen some LS1 swaps done before. There was a store that advertised in automotiveforums that sold chevy 350 swaps for a 240sx. It sounds pretty badass to me.

[Var]

302 sounds like a good swap but it will end up costing the same as an LS1 when you try to get the same power out of it. The big plus for a 302 is that replacements parts are cheap and plentiful and the transmission fits better than the t-56. Also it's OBDI so less hassle with smog if you have it...but on the other hand the LS1 might be easier to legalize for CA because it's on the Low Emission Vehicle list..so it's considered to be a super clean burning engine. but 302's always sound better. :)

i still want an LS1

[NickBW]

mmm LS1 in a 240sx fastback with no spoiler. Like a lighter corvette with two more seats.

Lots of power, broad powerband, huge aftermarket here in the USA, no taking it up the butt from importing costs for every little thing that you may need for an engine that wasnt sold in the USA. Great sound(really suprise people with that throaty rumble from a humble little nissan.. ;) )
I remember seeing a guy who had a destroked Lt1 that made something like 600~hp at around 7000+rpm's naturaly aspired. A setup somewhat simalar to that with an Ls1 sure would be nice..

[AlligatorBling]

i realize this thread is about putting a 302 in a 240; however, i must throw in my two cents.... have you considered finding a cheap 4 Cyl mustang notch back and dropping a 5.0 in it? gut out the body for weight issues, you get MEGA torque, and you still pay for 4cly insurance, best of all... the motor drops right in, thus saving you a lot of cash. rear end swaps should be fairly simple as well, you could put in 3.55 or 3.73’s ... or if you want the easiest route, but a 5.0 and gut it. trick out the motor, and enjoy.

edit: some reading you might like on weight reduction of the stang
http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=599648&highlight=weight

[98sr20ve]

Here is the argument Makoto really needs. If he drops a Ford 302 V8 into his S13, how much tuning and work will it take to reach ~300hp/300ft lbs. in relation to ANY Nissan engine available. The 302 must remain N/A, however the Nissan engine may be F/I. Keep it civil, and stick to the facts. Remeber we are talking tuning here. I know there are plenty of Nissan engines that can push 300 ponies, now just make a good argument around it.

If you decide to skip the Ford and go with a LS1 then how does 500hp and 450ftlbs of torque sound. With a carb no less. Keep the fuel injection and you will have even more. That is NA. Also, that is off of a LS1 that started at 345hp. Not the 400hp one they make now.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/0409em_gmpp/

To get your HP level with a Ford you will likely need GT40 heads, headers, cams, maybe some springs. 300hp is not hard. You can buy a crate engine that has 345hp easy.

http://www.factoryfive.com/table/engines/ford302.html

[S14DB]

i realize this thread is about putting a 302 in a 240; however, i must throw in my two cents.... have you considered finding a cheap 4 Cyl mustang notch back and dropping a 5.0 in it? gut out the body for weight issues, you get MEGA torque, and you still pay for 4cly insurance, best of all... the motor drops right in, thus saving you a lot of cash. rear end swaps should be fairly simple as well, you could put in 3.55 or 3.73’s ... or if you want the easiest route, but a 5.0 and gut it. trick out the motor, and enjoy.

edit: some reading you might like on weight reduction of the stang
http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=599648&highlight=weight
My GF had a 4cyl stang. You know how hard it is to swap a 5.0 in it? It's cheaper to buy a GT. Insurance rates on even a 4cyl mustang are twice that of a 240. The more you strip out the more anoying the stang gets.

[MakotoS13]

i was reading that link and a guy says he should lose drop 30lbs by going with aluminum heads. i need to find some people that have done this sucker....

[wootwoot]

If you think it's weight, you're a dope cuz a 302 with an iron block and aluminum head weighs about the same as an all aluminum LS1 and much less than a lot of all aluminum DOHC V8's except the northstar which weighs just marginally more.

So what's your reason? :rolleyes:


Where are you getting your info because it seems kinda out there. DOHC motors also have close to the same weight, it is their dimensions that are the trouble. Northstar is about the worst engine as well. Good technology but bad turnout. They leak constantly and always

[Var]

i realize this thread is about putting a 302 in a 240; however, i must throw in my two cents.... have you considered finding a cheap 4 Cyl mustang notch back and dropping a 5.0 in it? gut out the body for weight issues, you get MEGA torque, and you still pay for 4cly insurance, best of all... the motor drops right in, thus saving you a lot of cash. rear end swaps should be fairly simple as well, you could put in 3.55 or 3.73’s ... or if you want the easiest route, but a 5.0 and gut it. trick out the motor, and enjoy.

edit: some reading you might like on weight reduction of the stang
http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=599648&highlight=weight


I used to have a 5.0. those cars feel like trucks. They are shitty to drive even though they have potential to perform. 240's look better, the chassis is better, the interior is better, but the engine is lacking. plus mustangs have solid rear axle etc. This way you get the best of both worlds

[AlligatorBling]

plus mustangs have solid rear axle etc. This way you get the best of both worlds

this is true.... you know what would be really cool.... this is way the fuck out there.... but can you imagen a rear motor 240 with a v8 ?

[MakotoS13]

that's be nine kinds of wednesday (which is WAY too many kinds of wednesday)

the objective here is to keep it simple.

[nismo2491]

dude makoto you forgot about something man. you can't do this swap its not JDM tyte yo.
KEvin

[Var]

nismo..makoto isnt a drifter. He doesnt know what the acronym JDM stands for anyways...

[citizen]

also, being from texas, he is as dumb as a brick... =P

[nismo2491]

what's with everybody raggin on texas lately? rag on MD come on I dare you, rag on one of the 13 original colonies!
KEvin

[Ian]

yeah, you'll get pwned so hard people from VA will come to get you....


we gangsta yo...

[sykikchimp]

..please try to stay on topic...

[MakotoS13]

sure i do. Japanese Dorifto Magic. duh.

[publicenemy137]

yeah, you'll get pwned so hard people from VA will come to get you....


we gangsta yo...

seriously, we've had like 5 machete attacks in the last couple of months, a few gang-related shootings, and around 25-35 fingers chopped off around

anyways Makoto do you know how much an LS1 or 302 swap would cost in a 240?

[MakotoS13]

probably close to an RB swap.

[S14DB]

You need to look into a 427SCJ swap.

[MakotoS13]

my dad's doin that in his F250 minus the S ( i presume that is for supercharger) :)

[blu808]

well now that interest is confirmed. Does anyone know of anyone who makes a motor swap kit. like mentioned before?

Lets just post up any info we have..

Heres all the information i have.

v8 + light rwd car = fun and more reliable. Just change the oil every track day, and your good.

Now how do we do it without having to make all that crazy mounting crap.

[Var]

mounting crap should be pretty easy. i'd just go with solid metal mounts for a track only car which you could probably fab. You may or may not need a custom crossmember depending on which tranny you use. then there's the driveshaft..easy. Then the wiring...PITA. Probably the hardest part of the whole swap. I'm willing to be a test rat on this project. if it comes out shitty and heavy and un-driftable, then i'll just turbo charge it and run 8's.

[nismo2491]

you fail to remember that your same little gang that does all that shit down there got their ass's handed to them and there vehicles torn up when they came down my way and tried to wreck one of my parties last easter. yeah true we had a couple of vehicles windows busted and cars dented but one of their trucks had no windows left and a few of their guys wound up in intensive care (baseball bats to heads, they came at us with uhhh plastic fucking canoe padels) sure there were injuries from my party too, you know 1 girl had to get her rings cut off her fingers, another girls face was cut up and she needed a butterfly after she got shoved into a window, but no major injuries at my party, and none of my people got arrested like theirs did. so uhhh md > va even with the faggot ass ms13's

back on topic I think you could fairly easily fab up mounts for this swap. you'd have choice of framerails with long mounts or crossmember.
KEvin

[the head]

if you went standalone and aftermarket gauges wiring would be much easier the hardest part in the engine harness would be getting the gauge and fuel pump outputs and powering the right pins all of that would be farily easy if you had the wiring diags for the ECU harness.
the entire engine harness connects through a plug resembeing the SMJ on the nissan only a little larger this allows many vehicles that use different motors to share the same chassis harness

[MakotoS13]

so:

-custom driveshaft
-motor mounts
-tranny mount/modifed crossmember maybe
-aftermarket gauge assembly
-painless wiring kit
-radiator
-motor
-tranny
-clutch

what about all of the brake lights and headlights? thats where i think it'd start to get tricky.

[lsk12]

Hehe nice topic I can tell you theres plenty of room for an all alloy DOHC
V8 in the s13 engine bay it works out lighter than stock and has so much usable power and torque engine is 1UZ

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/lsk12/eng34.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/lsk12/IM000696.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/lsk12/Igood1.jpg


check out my big post for more pics

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?p=626471#post626471

[Var]

i wonder if they make carburetor kits for LS1's. lol.. Say bye bye to wiring problems




edit: :rawk:
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/man_chevy_ls1.html
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/autopartsphotos/manifolds/7118.jpg


"These Edelbrock Performer LS1 intake manifold kits will allow you to bolt a carburetor on your LS1 engine. They include a unique ignition control module that works with the OEM sensors to fire the distributorless ignition system, giving you a choice to choose between six timing curves."

[S14DB]

I would go with the VH45DE to keep it in the family before at 1uz.

[TokyoNights]

Here is the argument Makoto really needs. If he drops a Ford 302 V8 into his S13, how much tuning and work will it take to reach ~300hp/300ft lbs. in relation to ANY Nissan engine available. The 302 must remain N/A, however the Nissan engine may be F/I. Keep it civil, and stick to the facts. Remeber we are talking tuning here. I know there are plenty of Nissan engines that can push 300 ponies, now just make a good argument around it.

KA-T
Cheaper, parts are everywere, no need to tune since the enthalpy ecu just came out, broad powerband, torque up the ass, hammer on it reliability, make 300hp on stock internals all day.

Simple.


what side are you guys on :ugh: domestic :loco:

[TokyoNights]

That lex v8 is big pimpin

[nismo2491]

makoto: painless makes a 5.0swap wiring kit for older muscle cars IIRC so you could just get that, and then use your factory chasis harness to still run all your brake lights and stuff, the only thing would probably be fuel pump which you could just re-wire to a normal switch+relay anyways
KEvin

[wootwoot]

I must copy lsk12.....

[MakotoS13]

KA-T
Cheaper, parts are everywere, no need to tune since the enthalpy ecu just came out, broad powerband, torque up the ass, hammer on it reliability, make 300hp on stock internals all day.

Simple.


what side are you guys on :ugh: domestic :loco:

the hardest part would be getting the motor in and getting everything running perfect. once that is done its easy street. no need to screw with turbos elaborate setups. get a DSS raving pro bullet 306 longblock if you're feelin like insane power and have a hardcore machine.

300hp all day flogging the piss out of it on the track with no cooling problems and no need for hich octane on a TURBO CHARGED motor with half the displacement of a 5.0?

dude, if there was a readily available kit i'd get it but the fact is eventually a 5.0 will probably make its way into my car because it'd turn an underpowered 240 into a hardcore performer.

alll of this is just a brainstorming session to see how much it would take to make it feasible. i compeltely believe that some day it will be common for swaps like this to exist but until then people like me wil have to dream em up instead of settling for motors that we DON'T want. hell, maybe i'll come across a VQ35 before i get in the position to fab up all this stuff.

taking up for something just for the sake of loyalty is fuggin stupid. obviously the KAT is a good option and truth be told i might even go KAT some day but for now i'm exploriing viable NA options because unlike most of these import dweebs i don't nut every time i hear a BOV and cream myself over quer as hell 1000hp 10 second supras.

[atom]

Someone already makes swap kits for chevy smallblock/LSx/northstar if you're really interested. I think I read it on sr20forum. Engine-wise it'll be more expensive than a used 302 but then again you won't have to waste time fabricating stuff.

Honestly, if all you want is 300-350 HP I think a V8 swap is not the right way to go. Too much time and effort for such a mild power goal. A decently built KA-T with a cheapo T3/T4 will do that with zero lag and you won't be racking your brain out trying to fabricate all this custom stuff. Not to mention the KA-T will be lighter. V8 swaps are a good alternative for people that really considered a RB swap and/or have high HP goals.

[Var]

A decently built KA-T with a cheapo T3/T4 will do that with zero lag and you won't be racking your brain out trying to fabricate all this custom stuff


there's no such thing as zero lag.. and even so, no 4cylinder will have power right @ 1500rpm which is important to me.

[MakotoS13]

the point is that it IS a mild power goal for a V8. with a virtually stock LS1 and BPU 302 i can make power levels that a lot of 4 bangers can easily hit but not maintain as dependably.

why van a Z06 run all day long at 400 hp on a track without fail? because its powerplant was designed to make such power and does so easily. slap a turbo charger on it and try to run all day long making 600hp... not gonna happen without extensive tuning.

and i don't believe a KAT will be much lighter than a 302 (if at all).

[zeek]

Lets get some more info on these v8 swaps and stop talking about irrelevant shit... Anyone know any websites that have people that have actually completed these swaps? Instead of bashing the idea lets support what makoto is asking about. Obviously most of you havent ridden in an LS1/LT1 powered car. I have. INSTANT POWER..... thats all i have to say. NO spool, No bullshit, No tuning, just bolt-on and go.
Stock LS1 powered Camero's run 13 flat to 13.5 depending on driver. And those cars weigh around 3500lbs Now put that in a 2800 pound car....

[jOeHaCk98]

great gas mileage to boot. or gears, full exhaust, intake, chipped. Very Fun. Maybe a 200 shot :)

[G_Fish240]

Lets get some more info on these v8 swaps and stop talking about irrelevant shit... Anyone know any websites that have people that have actually completed these swaps? Instead of bashing the idea lets support what makoto is asking about. Obviously most of you havent ridden in an LS1/LT1 powered car. I have. INSTANT POWER..... thats all i have to say. NO spool, No bullshit, No tuning, just bolt-on and go.
Stock LS1 powered Camero's run 13 flat to 13.5 depending on driver. And those cars weigh around 3500lbs Now put that in a 2800 pound car....

Funny I was at the track last week and saw no ls1 camaros in the 13s.

[zeek]

shitty drivers then , what were the 60ft times

[MakotoS13]

Funny I was at the track last week and saw no ls1 camaros in the 13s.

cause they were prolly in the 12's ;)

if you believe that stock f-bodies and C5 vettes can't run low 13's all day long bone stock you belong in a mental institution or under a bus that is on fire and at the bottom of the ocean.

[SimpleS14]

^-- lol

I would be interested to find out more information on a LS1 swap into a S14. I've seen pics everywhere, but nothing that sells a "kit" or explains wiring.



Does anyone see this as becoming the next common swap for the 240SX?......it just needs exposure in those magazines.

[S14DB]

400hp, 390ft/lbs
http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=egnsearch.asp&Ntt=302&N=0+310566

Prolly get more with the AEM 30-1400 EMS

[Phlip]

Funny I was at the track last week and saw no ls1 camaros in the 13s.
Then you must have been in the bathroom beating off, I see that every time I go

[nismo2491]

yeah ls1 f-bodies stock run 13's bud
KEvin

[98sr20ve]

Lets get some more info on these v8 swaps and stop talking about irrelevant shit... Anyone know any websites that have people that have actually completed these swaps? Instead of bashing the idea lets support what makoto is asking about. Obviously most of you havent ridden in an LS1/LT1 powered car. I have. INSTANT POWER..... thats all i have to say. NO spool, No bullshit, No tuning, just bolt-on and go.
Stock LS1 powered Camero's run 13 flat to 13.5 depending on driver. And those cars weigh around 3500lbs Now put that in a 2800 pound car....

Isn't it more like high 13's totally stock. But low 13's are only slicks or a couple bolt on mods away. Either way a LS1 240 with basic mods would be in the 12's with slicks. It would be in the 11's if you got the new 400hp LS2. Think about it. F body/Corvette is not running the gears that we run. They are geared more for fuel economy. It would freaking fly. All you people asking "how do you do it" need to just realize....Everything would be custom. You need to massage the transmission tunnel a little, make custom mounts all around. Then use a harness and ecu that you will likely have to lengthen or shorten. Painless wiring makes a harness for the LS1 so it wont be too hard. This can be done its just a matter of how resourcefull you are.

[MakotoS13]

Isn't it more like high 13's totally stock.

WRONG. MN6 equipped LS1 F bodies run almost 13 flat bone stock and the same goes with vettes. the reason they run the same times is cause the live axle in the Fbodies makes up for its weight gain over the vette with independent suspension in the rear.

All you people asking "how do you do it" need to just realize....Everything would be custom... This can be done its just a matter of how resourcefull you are.

nobody is asking HOW. we're discussing what needs to be done and what other options are. fuggin duh it can be done cause i've seen lt1, 302,AND ls1 240's... anything else genius?

[justinhustle]

call up lingenfelter and have em do it

[PinkPanther]

Lol,An S13 doing THIS (http://www2.lingenfelter.com/images/Kordis6spdtt.mpeg) would be outrageous.

[meatish]

I was looking into doing the same thing with my FC, and came across this shop which does tons of V8 conversions.. maybe someone could coax them into doing a kit for 240's. Get a petition out there!
http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/rx7.html

Oh yeah, and after looking at some of those swaps, especially with a LS1, wouldnt there be power steering problems? Just a thought, that would suck to have to retrofit and rebend your lines.. and suck more to not have ps.

[nismo2491]

god that track looks unsafe as shit. not 100% sure but it also looks like its only 1/8th mile track.
KEvin

[98sr20ve]

WRONG. MN6 equipped LS1 F bodies run almost 13 flat bone stock and the same goes with vettes. the reason they run the same times is cause the live axle in the Fbodies makes up for its weight gain over the vette with independent suspension in the rear.



nobody is asking HOW. we're discussing what needs to be done and what other options are. fuggin duh it can be done cause i've seen lt1, 302,AND ls1 240's... anything else genius?

Are you trying to win a Ass Hole award? This post has become pointless because no one will be able to add much to the topic with out actually going thru the process. That was my point.

[MakotoS13]

Are you trying to win a Ass Hole award? This post has become pointless because no one will be able to add much to the topic with out actually going thru the process. That was my point.

no, i have plenty thank you. now is when people post about their mother's uncle's brother's aunt that did the swap yadda yadda yadda.

[s14alex]

And that red 5.0 coupe, the guy is on 240sxforums, he posted vids and everything
If a v8 was going in my car it would be the powertec made from 2 hayabusa engines.. 383hp at 10,000rpm :yum:


that sounds like a honda v8 with the powerband of a b16....... GHEY
:Owned:

The whole point of having a v8 is to have the :hitthegasandinstantlygo: feeling.

[Var]

Oh yeah, and after looking at some of those swaps, especially with a LS1, wouldnt there be power steering problems? Just a thought, that would suck to have to retrofit and rebend your lines.. and suck more to not have ps.


Not having power steering is simply not an option for an s13. I was actually thinkin about this and never mentioned it cause i forgot. I was thinkin about all metal lines...cause i dont see the point in the rubber. Basically it would be almost like turbo lines but probably thicker in some parts. What do you guys think?

[wootwoot]

I've been trying to hunt down a manual rack that goes into our bays. F power steering, just using power steering minus the pump is crappy

[TokyoNights]

that sounds like a honda v8 with the powerband of a b16....... GHEY
:Owned:

The whole point of having a v8 is to have the :hitthegasandinstantlygo: feeling.
Yea real fuckin GHEY, dont get mad just because you cant afford it,, Im shure what you got is better anyway, right? haha

All this slobbering on a run of the mill dinosaur pushrod smallblock that everyone and their mom has. Id be looking for something more exotic for all that trouble.

[the head]

Not having power steering is simply not an option for an s13. I was actually thinkin about this and never mentioned it cause i forgot. I was thinkin about all metal lines...cause i dont see the point in the rubber. Basically it would be almost like turbo lines but probably thicker in some parts. What do you guys think?


use PS grade braided line (extruded teflon line braided steel cover) then use an aftermarket resivor from KRC or some other circle track company shit is Really easy I converted my PS to this when I went SR but only on the high pressure side as I had a stock resivor so no need on the low press side to messi with converting a nipple to an AN fitting I have the aeroquip part numbers for both ports on the rack and the pumps on GM use the same adapter as the Nissan IIRC it is like an m12x1.5 o-ring seal (not reverse flare) PS lines are REALLY easy you dont need to worry about that at all

[the head]

Yea real fuckin GHEY, dont get mad just because you cant afford it,, Im shure what you got is better anyway, right? haha

All this slobbering on a run of the mill dinosaur pushrod smallblock that everyone and their mom has. Id be looking for something more exotic for all that trouble.

would work great a lighter car dont see the purpose in a 240 if ya want somthing exotic put a 308 GTSi QV V8 in it that is exotic in a way that no busa motor could ever be

BTW shure is a microphone company sure is the proper word if you are going to mock people please learn to spell correctly

[TokyoNights]

would work great a lighter car dont see the purpose in a 240 if ya want somthing exotic put a 308 GTSi QV V8 in it that is exotic in a way that no busa motor could ever be

BTW shure is a microphone company sure is the proper word if you are going to mock people please learn to spell correctly

he was trying to mock me, and you mispelled SOMETHING :hahano:

a busa motor is not exotic at all but 2 turned into a v8 is

[Var]

Yea real fuckin GHEY, dont get mad just because you cant afford it,, Im shure what you got is better anyway, right? haha

All this slobbering on a run of the mill dinosaur pushrod smallblock that everyone and their mom has. Id be looking for something more exotic for all that trouble.


Hey guess what dipshit. Nobody gives a fuck what you want. This thread isnt for you to shit on. So stop.

We arent slobbering over the fuckin engine. STUPID. pay attention. The finished product will be something to enjoy. IT DOESNT MATTER what's under the hood..it matter hows cheap, light and powerful it is.


everyone else pay attention...

IT DOESNT MATTER what's under the hood..it matter hows cheap, light and powerful it is

you got any suggestion? and dont say KA-T like we havent thought of that before

[zeek]

keep on topic dammit.... and what westborough said

[boosteds13]

Throw this badboy in there and be done with it :)
http://www.wheeltowheel.net/wheel2wheelpower/images/489.jpg
604 CID Big Block Chevy Twin Turbo (over 2000 HP)

[MakotoS13]

instead of DOUBLING the weight of the car i'd rather focus on more realistic goals :)

[TokyoNights]

Hey guess what dipshit. Nobody gives a fuck what you want. This thread isnt for you to shit on. So stop.

We arent slobbering over the fuckin engine. STUPID. pay attention. The finished product will be something to enjoy. IT DOESNT MATTER what's under the hood..it matter hows cheap, light and powerful it is.


everyone else pay attention...



you got any suggestion? and dont say KA-T like we havent thought of that before
Hey I was just sharing ideas with makoto thats all. Opinions too, its just the fuckin internet relax, dont get your panties in a bunch. You dont even know me and youre throwing around personal attacks, shit its not even your thread to shit on.
I can see it now budget pos v8 s13 turns into a money pit with stock suspension and brakes, carborated too :goyou: movin up in the world.
done, have fun

[boosteds13]

instead of DOUBLING the weight of the car i'd rather focus on more realistic goals :)

It was a joke, but I agree... I think the rear wheels would be off the ground with that setup in there.

[zeek]

All Joking aside that last picture would be bad ass in a pickup or suburban. Just imagine a 12 second family suburban.

[Var]

Hey I was just sharing ideas with makoto thats all. Opinions too, its just the fuckin internet relax, dont get your panties in a bunch. You dont even know me and youre throwing around personal attacks, shit its not even your thread to shit on.
I can see it now budget pos v8 s13 turns into a money pit with stock suspension and brakes, carborated too :goyou: movin up in the world.
done, have fun


1-the "ideas" you were sharing werent helpful. They werent constructive, but rather trying to dis the whole idea and to that i say FU.

2-no this isnt my thread but makoto and I coincidentally got interested in this at the same time. And after some convos on AIM, he made this thread.

3-you are confused i think...you said you wanted an "exotic" motor. That's the word you used right? ie: expensive and inefficient but rare. And hard/costly to fix, replace and tune. And at the same time you say that THIS project will be overbudget. ? And somehow, when i do this swap..the roll cage, coilovers, brakes that are already in my car will have magically dissappeared in an attempt to put a 3 thousand dollar engine in there. And at that point i will pull my sr out and then ship it out to the next fool that want to tinker with it and get my money back. Then i will cry because you didnt approve of it. Then i will cry again when i replace a camshaft for a couple hundred bucks and gain only 30hp from it. Then once again when i get my heads ported for a measly 50hp. Then i will be on the verge of suicide because my "dinasaur motor that everyone and their mother has" just isnt cutting it anymore.



"Just buy a fuckin mustang if you want a 5.0 so bad
but I guess crossbreeding is popular in texas
Homo errotic 2jz? haha have fun with your dinosaur pushrod"

"Who cares?
If I wanted to tow id have a diesel"

"KA-T
Cheaper, parts are everywere, no need to tune since the enthalpy ecu just came out, broad powerband, torque up the ass, hammer on it reliability, make 300hp on stock internals all day.
Simple.
what side are you guys on domestic "

cheaper? ya if you are dumb enough not to rebuild it for race use
parts are everywhere? ya for the LS1 and 302...get your heads ported at the supermarket while you wait in line at the deli.
torque up the ass? whetever makes you happy
hammer on it reliability? not compared to n/a v-8
300hp on stock internals all day? i want mine to last for more than a day.

"That lex v8 is big pimpin" (hypocryte? bosozoku?)sp?

"Yea real fuckin GHEY, dont get mad just because you cant afford it,, Im shure what you got is better anyway, right? haha

All this slobbering on a run of the mill dinosaur pushrod smallblock that everyone and their mom has. Id be looking for something more exotic for all that trouble."

"carborated too " hey whatever works right?

[TokyoNights]

3. was a hint for makoto to do that stuff first since his is all stock.

Its all gravy I was just burning time.
Have fun with the pig like I said

[Var]

ok thanks i will. btw nice sig. have a good one

[meatish]

omg the gayness of this thread has reached 11.

[TokyoNights]

DIAF
ok thanks i will. btw nice sig. have a good one
nice edit.
no hard feelings homie, its all in good fun.

[MakotoS13]

I can see it now budget pos v8 s13

budget pos? i took a 15 year old beat to hell car and made it look almost new again. if that is somehow bastardizing your whole idea of what a car enthusiest is then perhaps you should reevaluate the goals set before you. maybe it would be in your best interest to speak less like a diehard import loving JDM nut ricer and more like a real gear head that just shoots for a goal and uses every means attainable to REACH said goal.

you, sir, are the blind lamb being lead by your ricer fetishes. afraid to think outside of your JDM stamped box and too closed minded to see the forrest for the trees.

turns into a money pit

are you smoking crack? of course its a money pit. what gain could i have from spending thousands of dollars on a 15 year old car?

with stock suspension and brakes

technically poly bushings under the whole car constitutes a suspension modification... but i'll let the brand new SPL coilovers drive the point home, k?

despite the overwhelming size of your mouth i can only guess that it must hurt to have both your feet in it.

how ever will you stand?

[TokyoNights]

-me being a ricer couldnt be further from the truth
-I was an auto tech. at a huge ford dealership and worked on/drove more ford v8s than you propably ever seen
-who gives a fuck anyway
-dont take this shit so seriously
-KTS/ I figured you would have posted pics like your italian leather shiftknob

[S14DB]

I'm not a ricer! Some of my best friends own domestics!

[MakotoS13]

-I was an auto tech. at a huge ford dealership and worked on/drove more ford v8s than you propably ever seen


yeah i've never seen that many fords. i speak from gross ignorance. i mean, other than the fact that my family owns several dealerships and my dad's side is fuggin ford fureakish.

[Var]

ok fellas, what's new on this? Doug..have you tried sourcing a motor? what are the prices looking like?

[TokyoNights]

might have a problem clearing the front sway bar

[Var]

yes every swap i've heard of needed a new oil pan. The guy who did the LS1 in the S14 said he used a 2005 Chevy Trailblazer sump pan. I'll be looking into this as well.

[AlligatorBling]

you know.... i was looking at my car today after work.... and g d it would be sexy with a v8 in it.... na mega hp and torque.... this is sort of a revival of the 240 and 280z v8 swap.... it will be done.... it will happen.... and there will be support for it. there will be dual exhaust out of the back of a fastback s13, and a 11 second 1/4 mile time slip to go with it.

[brainfood]

I know you have all pretty much dismissed the vh motor but does anyone have those pics from the earlier post on drifting.com the links to work anymore or even the guy who was doing the vh41de swaps info?
btw I think ls1 is a very good option for the v8 swap. I agree with reliablility I am looking for around 300whp but I want to beat on it all day long. Thats why I love my ka right now it has enough torque to be fun and I can beat on it for days.

[420sx]

302 will be cheap ever compared to damn RB swap.


now for the rest of the crowd,


id love to see a 302 in a 240. it does not, i repeat, NOT, belong into the mustangs. Domestic market has great engines, like 302 and lt1 for this kinda of swap; the market just doesnt have good cars. (besides a vet. obviuosly).

fuck your camaro, fuck your 5.0, fuck all your shit. pull the engine out and burn the slopy pig. put the engine into a 240. or better a miata.

thanks,
Im done now.

[crioten]

i want to keep this alive, since i missed it...

heres what im thinking about doing.

instead of an ls1, go for an older 350, no wiring would be its best benefit and you could put the money you saved into go fast parts as well

and possibly a tremec 5sp tranny to go with it or a cheap built auto tranny to go with it

check this out: http://www.lingenfelter.com/pack_ce_350.htm
for $2,000 thats a steal for something built like that, all its missing is a few goodies that really arent that expensive...

this whole project can be done as cheap as you can make it or expensive as hell, just like any other project

[MakotoS13]

the only downside to carb'd is the unpredictable nature of it (weather changes/humidity) AND the horrible gas mileage BUT it'd be fuggin cool as HELL havin a carb'd 240 rollin around town.

[crioten]

if you get one of those nice new carbs, it really shouldnt be a problem...

im really going to do this, but its going to take a while...

all i need to do is find a 350 to build :) hell, might even get a stroker kit for it

do you think i could just modify the support to hold the weight and new motormounts, or should i just make a custom piece w/ motormounts?

another thing, is there a weight difference between a ls1 and say a carbed 350?

[s14 blacktop]

heres some more info, dont know if its been covered though. some guy I sold my KA to, said the LT1 motor mounts are movable to where you can adjust the motor in the engine bay so that means you can move it to sit close to the firewall elimenating the balancing issue..

[MakotoS13]

if i was goin carb'd i'd totally have a 302. ford V8's reign supreme in my world.

[420sx]

fuck yea they do. my friend is geting his 302 build to match 600hp. crazy shit... and thats a daily driven mustang, he got lots suspension mods too. fuckin fassssst

[MakotoS13]

the ls1 project is getting a green light. when i make all the hardware i'll do my best to make duplicates of whatever and blueprints of the stuff in case anyone wants to do the Na thing too.

by the end of the summer official work begins.

[420sx]

fuck yea doug. do it biznach! you can do it! (rob shneider voice)

[HyperTek]

hopefully you guys would be sane enough to have a kick ass suspension/brakes to enjoy that v8... the swap would be pretty stupid like all those guys who put rbs and into stock ass cars...

[MakotoS13]

hopefully you guys would be sane enough to have a kick ass suspension/brakes to enjoy that v8... the swap would be pretty stupid like all those guys who put rbs and into stock ass cars...

nah, im just gonna keep the car all stock.

open diff too.

[Var]

I have coilovers and solid subframe bushings plus other small pieces like rear upper controls arms, tie rods, tension rods, 2 way LSD. I got some 17x9 wheels ready for some stickies, right now only running 215's and 225's. The only thing i dont have is brakes cause mine is a drift car and the stock brakes with good pads work fine until you start doing some serious braking and overheating, which isnt happening so far. I would make it a priority even before i put the engine in if it was a road race car. I think Makoto will get his done before mine cause i dont have time to work on my car right now plus i dont wanna pull my engine halfway through the season and miss out on all the night drifting @ Altamont.

[Var]

nah, im just gonna keep the car all stock.

open diff too.


I dont get it. Was that supposed to be sarcasm? Cause there ARE peope like that just to let you know. And it's sad

[pruto]

to answer your question westborough. ls1 with tremec 6 speed usually runs around $4000. The engine alone is about $2500, if you want to source a cheaper tranny then you can get it for less, but i think that 6 speed is as much of an badass upgrade as the ls1 itself.

also, wiring is about $1000 at least for a painless setup (standard on ls1 hybrids). Then you have to add in custom exhaust, worrying about clearing the crossmember, possibly custom oilpan and crossmember, clearing front and rear sways (exhaust), fitment of 6 speed, location of shifter, engine mounts, whether you can keep power steering, heating issues.

Realistically, you're looking at about 10k with engine minimum if you don't have a) connections or b) mad skillz.

[theicecreamdan]

Well as soon as I get back from my roadtrip this summer I'm going to begin sourcing a 302 for my ae86, then into the fab shop it goes.

[Var]

OK...i JUST got off the phone with the junkyard. '00 f-body motorset 4500 bucks with 6-speed w/40k miles. Comes with everything. I dont need anything to connect to the harness except bare minimums, so i think i can get by without buying a Painless system. probably gonna go with a push button ignition, i already have manual switches for my e-fan and my fuel pump. All i need is for the ECU to run the fuel injection and ignition.

[MakotoS13]

to answer your question westborough. ls1 with tremec 6 speed usually runs around $4000.

2500-3500 is what i figure i can get one for. you gotta know where to look.


also, wiring is about $1000 at least for a painless setup (standard on ls1 hybrids).

ahem... $594.99

Then you have to add in custom exhaust, worrying about clearing the crossmember, possibly custom oilpan

trailblazer oilpan works no majoe mods needed.

fitment of 6 speed, location of shifter,

no biggy

engine mounts,

no prob

whether you can keep power steering, heating issues.

power steering, yes, heating issues won't be a prob.. ever see a camaro's front bumper?

Realistically, you're looking at about 10k with engine minimum if you don't have a) connections or b) mad skillz.

7K by my count... then again, i do have mad skillz ;)


p.s. im keeping PS and AC or the whole project goes in the can.

[Var]

Here are the items of concern for me

Making the clutch hydraulics work..i'm just not thinking. maybe it's easy

Making the power steering work with the LS1 pump, cause i hate the nissan unit. it sucks donkey balls.

Fitting headers cause they free up like 30 horsepower and the manifolds are probably cast iron and heavy.

fabricating a crossmember

making room in the trans tunnel for the t-56

mounting the motor as low and far back as possible while keeping the oil pan from being too close to the ground.(btw list prices for trailblazer oil pans. for the 6 cylinder $179. for the 8 cylinder $412)
if the pan is really big like a lot of trucks pans are, then it may be worthwhile to custom fab.

[theicecreamdan]

hardest part with clutch hydraulics would be bending a hardline to get your flex hose close to the new slave cylinder.

[Var]

i suck at visualizing things so i dunno wtf you're talking about until i see it.

[theicecreamdan]

hmm... actually now that I think about it, the stock clutch hardlines should be ok, you might need a longer flex hose though. but that wouldnt be a very hard thing to get.

[Var]

i could use steel braided line yes?


also about my radiator. You think the koyo i use for my sr will do the job? I wonder if the high and low ends are on the right side. if not..i'll figure something else out.

[theicecreamdan]

stainless line would work perfect, and that radiator would probably do good enough for cooling, and making radiator hoses fit shouldnt be too hard, there are flexible radiator hoses. If those were too far off just figure out what you need and look into Jegs or summit racing, or find a local radiator shop to make a custom one.

[MakotoS13]

new info:

after putting real life measurements to the test the width is fine, the height is really no problem and the length could be better but all in all its WAY more feasible than the ls1 idea.

302 with iron block and aluminum heads = 419 lbs minus accesories/manifolds.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=27

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=5955

i'm lookin to get a used 5.0 for like 500 or so and mate it to the T56 so i wont have to get two custom shafts made. i'll have a brand new 6speed AND can rock more power while i save up for the GT40 motor then just swap that hoe over when its built.

this plan is still much cheaper and easier than doing an ls1 swap (plus ford motors just plain sound better).

im goin to check out used motors this weekend.

[Jeff240sx]

Buying a GT40 motor to build it is like buying a 2jz and building it. Until you make stupid power, it's not necessary.
But, 302 blocks suck. They're made in Mexico, and when any decent ammount of power go through them, they crack down the cam valley. Google '302 cracked block' and look at any of the 30,100 hits. It starts happening around 400hp with FI, or ~450 NA. It's a bad motor.
Look at the 289 DOHC. They're more efficient, and handle power like a champ. And look better.
I'm a Chevy guy. An LS1 is the motor of choice here, and you should think about continuing down that road.
-Jeff

[MakotoS13]

by building i meant the process of externally bolting on all parts needed to make it run. i.e. building it without touching the internals, dumbface.

oh and:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/65ShelbyClone/46vs50.jpg

TADA! eff a 4.6

[Var]

that 4.6 is such a big piece of ...........ENGINE. !!!

Jeff there are plenty of 500+ horsepower mustang 302's out there. My friends own many and i've never heard of that happening, but i'm sure you're not pulling that out of your ass.

the 4.6 is a 281, not a 289.

And the word effeciency should be used carefully. Power/liter doesnt mean squat to me.

It's all about power/dollar and power/weight. That's what efficiency in an engine swap is. Does anyone know how much the 4.6DOHC engine weighs?


edit: Jeff..i take that back about the cracked block thing. I was at a drift event yesterday and my friend's superchared mustang popped and started to leak oil all over the track. If his block is cracked, then you win. LOL. We didnt see anything broken but it was dark. No rods came out of the engine so..i'll update as soon as a find out

[Jeff240sx]

I don't think it's much wider than a full-on KA-T. But.. I can't find exact dimensions.
If you're thinking 302, look at the 351w. It's only a bit taller, and doesn't have a Mexican block.

Making an ultralight FBC isn't hard. But it's kinda expensive. Dart sells aluminum blocks. http://www.dartheads.com/sbclittlem.aspx
The alum. 302 racing block
'siamese version'( no water jackets between cyl)
weighs in at 95lbs! costs$3,695.
This can be punched to a 380 cu.in
w/a stroker crank- you are in the 400+hp league.........

The alum. 351 racing block weighs in at 110lbs $3,695.
this can opened to 427cu.in w/stroker crank -upwards
of 500+hp!.
all aluminum racing heads w/rollers and complete
w/valves weigh 27lbs @ [email protected]
alum flywheel available also add approx 29lbs.
the crank will weigh in approx 43lbs.
pistons/rods etc - ~40lbs.
alum intake 17lbs, 4bl carb, headers, cam, water pump, damper, distributor, etc under 75lbs.
You would definitely be under 400lbs and be 400+ hp

Or, I think a better option would be a Lexus V8.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33615&item=7980369702&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

http://usera.imagecave.com/Kreb/ToyotaUFZE.JPG
There it is in a 2nd gen rx-7 (random internet pic, so I can't verify anything on it).
But at 300hp @ 6000rpm and 310tq @ 4000rpm, it's a helluva motor.

Before shooting down that idea, spend a few minutes on http://lextreme.com/forums/index.php? and read about the Lexus v8s. Aluminum blocks, so once it's crammed down in the bay, you're solid.

Other crazy swaps, I helped Secret Services mock up motormounts and stuff a VQ35DE in a s13. Talk was happening that the VH 8-cyl line wouldn't take much more to fit in there...
-Jeff

[Jeff240sx]

edit: Jeff..i take that back about the cracked block thing. I was at a drift event yesterday and my friend's superchared mustang popped and started to leak oil all over the track. If his block is cracked, then you win. LOL. We didnt see anything broken but it was dark. No rods came out of the engine so..i'll update as soon as a find out

Sorry about the 289.. that's old Fords. As I said, I'm a Chevy guy.
The cracks that I've seen, and my engine builder has shown me, all occur directly over the cam, in the intake mani valley. Gotta remove the IM to find it. But, I really hope his shit isn't cracked.
A 302 makes alot of power for a little money. I'll give it that. But, they break alot.. and for some reason catastrophically down that cam valley :tweak:
-Jeff

[MakotoS13]

lucky me i want a maximum of 400horses in this car....

[codyace]

The cam problem to the best of my knowledge only occured during the 302's later years of production...any mid to early 80's ford pickup 302 blocks would be the choice block of a build (seasoned iron)....

HOWEVER

Jeff does bring a Valid point...if you're goin to go 302, just go 351...a 351 traditionally puts the same power as a mild cammed 302....so you'd already be startin with the better choice...plus all aluminum ford heads for small blocks (for non efi for that matter) have the holes drilled to 1/2"....whereas you'd hafta by special 'stepped' bolts from ARP to put those heads on a 302...

I'm a ford guy, so naturally this is a strong and cool idea....while many people prefer the LS1 engine, I think it's simply due to it being a common thought, AND that the stereotype that building a chevy is cheaper than a Ford is still around (power for power, you can get a 350 hp chevy small block for the same price as SmBlFord...

Remember however, anymore it's almost cheaper purchasing a crate motor over a built one..plus most companies offer a warrenty...

Lastly though, in my eyes a cool swap would be a nice old Cobra Hi-Po 289, and building that would be fun...high revving small block in a 240 would be sweet...plus they are better stock than any 302 thought about being :]

And if money is no object...Ford 390....Big block power in a tiny package

[MakotoS13]

huh? CRAMMING a motor in my car that i can't work on without pulling it would be conterproductive in my case. the 302 is small enough, can make the power i want with no effort, and isn't stankin heavy.

the idea is still on the drawing boards but neglecting the idea is... stupid.

[s86d]

huh? CRAMMING a motor in my car that i can't work on without pulling it would be conterproductive in my case. the 302 is small enough, can make the power i want with no effort, and isn't stankin heavy.

the idea is still on the drawing boards but neglecting the idea is... stupid.

Hey stupid. (It's Jeff). I'm not neglecting the idea. But if you're going wtih a 302, the 351 is a better motor, and the same size length x width, only marginally taller. The 302 is short anyway. Why get a 302 when there is a better motor that fits in the same space?
And.. I hardly call the Lexus DOHC v8 "crammed" inside the RX-7 pictured above. Crammed in my book is needing to bang out or cut and relocate stuff to make the engine fit. However, a motor that's tuned for a smooth ride making the power (300hp/310tq) it makes stock is something worth considering. And.. they're about $500. Or, you can be single minded and go with the 302, which given the choices (Lexus v8 or 351w), is an inferior motor. At LEAST go wtih the 351. Even a Ford guy is telling you that.
-Jeff

[420sx]

lexus swap is being done into an s13 a few months back and i think its a very good option to consider

[codyace]

Crammed is a Big Block in a 69 boss mustang...i bet you never wanna change sparkplugs ever again!

[MakotoS13]

Hey stupid. (It's Jeff). I'm not neglecting the idea. But if you're going wtih a 302, the 351 is a better motor, and the same size length x width, only marginally taller. The 302 is short anyway. Why get a 302 when there is a better motor that fits in the same space?
And.. I hardly call the Lexus DOHC v8 "crammed" inside the RX-7 pictured above. Crammed in my book is needing to bang out or cut and relocate stuff to make the engine fit. However, a motor that's tuned for a smooth ride making the power (300hp/310tq) it makes stock is something worth considering. And.. they're about $500. Or, you can be single minded and go with the 302, which given the choices (Lexus v8 or 351w), is an inferior motor. At LEAST go wtih the 351. Even a Ford guy is telling you that.
-Jeff

tell ya what, i'll get a 351 weith a velocity stack and a blower protruding from my hood, put racing stripes, and side pipes on it.

351W: Disadvantages

? Size: The 351W is 2.250 inches wider than a 302, necessitating a number of changes (at additional cost) to make the swap possible. Hood clearance can become an issue, and there will be less room to service the plugs.

? Heavy Weight: As discussed in the Keep the Muscle, Lose the Fat sidebar, the 351W is beefier and is typically more than 100 pounds heavier than a 302-based engine.

two things that are deal killers.

300-400 fuel injected crank horsepower and similar torque...

[Jeff240sx]

Additional cost? Compared to what? Isn't everything being fabbed up custom?

[zenkiDori]

here is the car:
http://usera.imagecave.com/Kreb/1UFZE2ndgen.JPG

but holy hell that's one pretty engine!

I had though about putting a V8 in the rear of an S13 hatch and did some photochoppin' one day, man i think it would look sweet seeing a V8 with stacks under the glass hatch, very supercar style. i'll try and find the pic i made.

this project sounds sweet. if you guys can pull it off on a decent budget i may be next in line for my S14! hot stuff!

[infamous55]

"And if money is no object...Ford 390....Big block power in a tiny package"

Have you ever seen a 390? It is not a small engine, and the stock intake alone weighs about 90lbs. The 390 has a lot of potential, but not for a 240, its too big and heavy to reap the benefits of all that torque.

"Crammed is a Big Block in a 69 boss mustang...i bet you never wanna change sparkplugs ever again!"

I know what its like to change the plugs on a big block mustang, not a fun experience, but its fun to watch someone else do it. But not a boss though, any 67-70 mustang with a big block is a pain to change plugs on, especially if you have power brakes and headers. boss mustangs in 69-70 either had small blocks(302, plenty of room to work with) or The Boss 429, which is really easy to change plugs on, seeing how its a hemi...

This is a pic of a stock 428 Cobra Jet (same block as a 390) in a 69 mustang. Look closely for the spark plugs.

http://www.maximummustang.com/wforum/files/scan0039gt500_428_cobra_jet_eng..jpg

sucks for him, he has to work around the ac too...

[sciamop]

Matako (sic), you are sooooo full of shit. Good luck with your pipe dream fabrication project. Do us and yourself a favor and sell the Nissan... or just (finally) buy an LS1 and STFU.

When I move on from the S13, I've been thinking about building a (horrors!) domestic: 1991-1993 Mustang GT w/ all the goodies from a wrecked late-model SVT Mustang Cobra: 6-speed, IRS, 390+hp Super Charged 32V V8, gigantic brakes, etc... just gotta work out the Tempo-like interior and the 300lb hatchback.

No Hard Feelings,
Todd
93 SR20'd Coupe
91 SE-R (daily driver)
92 ///M330is (under construction)
http://www.whistlehog.com/blog

[MakotoS13]

Matako (sic), you are sooooo full of shit. Good luck with your pipe dream fabrication project. Do us and yourself a favor and sell the Nissan... or just (finally) buy an LS1 and STFU.

ya know, i could belittle you by using your lack of reading comprehension skills to show how your tiny mind truly must struggle with the most basic of concepts but i won't. i just gotta wonder why some guy off the street wants to talk to me like i'm some faggot ricer when he can't even figure out the basic premise of the "signiture" function on this little forum thing. instead he types out or copies his car list and site after every post, to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he needs to be recognized as something higher than the current position he holds in life.

that position being a completely inept and tasteless baswagoneering newb.

just because you're happy with a less than optimal turboed piece of crap doesn't mean the rest of us should practice the same complacency with our cars.

somebody has to do the thinking around here.

[sLip techniques]

only motor type that belongs in a 240 is a 4 cyl...........PLAIN AND SIMPLE

[MakotoS13]

well some of us don't choose ricer loyalty over being a performance nut.

[sLip techniques]

oh.....then why did you buy a 240.......?

[Var]

only motor type that belongs in a 240 is a 4 cyl...........PLAIN AND SIMPLE


that almost tops the dumbest thing ever said around here. THE dumbest was humans weren't built to breastfeed, and the second dumbest was there's no difference between vlsd and clutch type lsd.

[kandyflip445]

Why does it matter to you? All you want to do is bash someone cause you don't think what they're doing is something you would do. If someone wants to go down another path let them. Why waste time complaining about it. He wants to do it and this thead is here now to let people know about what is going on with it and what is involved and hopefully the end result. Go somewhere else slip techniques.

[JDMs13]

What the hell does ricer loyalty have to do with fuel effecient four cylinders? Have you seen fuel prices lately........

Looking for 300-400 reliably?

If you were looking for 800 reliably, that would constitute a pushrod V8.


You should deffinatley look into full-coverage insurance once this bad boys on the road, eh. :boink:

-Greg

[MakotoS13]

make 400 crank hp RELIABLY on a stock SR. do it. if you can and rock it hard all day long then bring it home without worrying about anything at all i'll be sold on the idea. oh, and you have to ditch the turbo too. oh yeah, you need 400ft lbs of torqe with 70% of it before 3500rpms. impossible in a 2.0 4 bangeR? thought so.

and fuel efficient? a 5.0 is way better with mileage than the sohc i currently have.

400 hp on a smallblock V8 is NOTHING and that is the IDEA that few of you seem to be able to grasp. the motor with a good tremec 5spd and custom driveshaft then ba'am you're in business running a quarter mile faster than some queer SR cause you have zero lag.

[JDMs13]

Running the quarter mile is whatever in my book. I could care less what my car runs. You live your life quarter mile at a time do you makoto? lol. Anyways, whats wrong with F/I?? When this first began, all you wanted was 300 reliably.....that number seems to be getting bigger. 350 HP at the wheels out of an SR is titty. No problem. Same for KA. Reliabley. Not the characteristics your looking for, I understand.

[sykikchimp]

at least with the v8 your car would sound mean as hell.

[MakotoS13]

the quarter mile is a quick and easy way to tell the acceleration capabilities of a car. the end. im not building adragster. its more street/road race than anything. that 400 is an overshot at the crank number. i want 350-400 crank hp/tq reliably. by reliably i mean beat the hell out of it all day long and not have to worry. NA is just better about that than FI.

turbos interest me a lot but i'd rather have something that i know will work than something that i know isn't what best suits what i want to accomplish.

also, i wont have an FMIC so the car will look basically stock on the exterior. V8's will start making their way into S13's whether i proceed with my plan or not. i'm paying off some bills so i can dive off in this sucker in september (and so i can enjoy my car before it goes under the knife again).

i dont build my car for anyone but me but i thought i've done a pretty good job so far.

[Chernobyl]

People have been putting V8's into old Z's for decades now. Why not continue the hot-rod tradition with the better S13 chassis?

One thing I remember from reading many v8-S30 posts back around 2000-2001 is a guy that mentioned how much better his V8 sounded with a big fat single exhaust. He said it sounded very exotic, and regretted changing to a dual exhaust later on. I haven't read this thread in a while, so I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but I'd suggest going with a single for this project makoto. Just in case you were contemplating options.

[kandyflip445]

You could use a Apex'i GT exhaust and leave everyone guessing wtf is under the hood. lol

[Chernobyl]

You could use a Apex'i GT exhaust and leave everyone guessing wtf is under the hood. lol

pretty much what I had in mind :rawk:

[MakotoS13]

the general rule here is that everything has to appear to be stock to the UNTRAINED eye. meaning, anybody that doesn't know exactly what rims came on a 240 or what exhaust came on it needs to be under the impression that i could be simply rocking factory options.

i'm not big on the "tuner" look. its gotta be clean and mean. borla will probably be my exhaust with a couple tips in back.

[Var]

yes..borla's keep it sounding clean on v-8's.

[MakotoS13]

the right to change my mind is a pretty usefull one.

the V8 project has hereby been put on hold indefinately due to lack of motivation, time, and general knowledge that i'd rather put that ton of cash towards my vette (or whatever i choose to get in a couple years). instead i'm just gonna tinker with FI technology and blow a few KA's in the process.

its a great idea and if it was a track slut i prolly would (that'd rule out the need for AC which would simplify things considerably) but alas, this car is to have fun with till i get to an age where the insurance companies wont bend me over.

[Ian]

ah, i was hoping that this happened...then i'd copy you


i love V8s

[420sx]

pussy.... hhahaha. na not really. glad u decided easier route Doug

[Omarius Maximus]

Wow, thanks for letting me waste 10 minutes of my existence reading this lame ass thread. Whats even more wonderful is that the creator of the thread negates the purpose of the stupid thing with his post above.

Your a pipe dreaming :mrmeph:

[SHIFT_control]

and unless they lock this thread right now most of us will flame you for quite awhile..... welcome to zilvia

[Var]

Pussy ass pussy. Hold on..imma go grab the catnip.

Here you go (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=182945446&dealer_id=621927&car_year=1999&make=MERC&distance=50&lang=en&max_price=&model=COUGAR&end_year=2006&sponsorModel=&min_price=&certified=&address=94030&search_type=both&advanced=&start_year=1996&isp=y&cardist=16) Doug. Get the car you were destined for

[MakotoS13]

Wow, thanks for letting me waste 10 minutes of my existence reading this lame ass thread. Whats even more wonderful is that the creator of the thread negates the purpose of the stupid thing with his post above.

Your a pipe dreaming :mrmeph:

actually, cunt, the purpose is devine. NA > FI. end of story. is more stable, dependable, easier to tune, and runs cooler. if i was building a race car the 302 would be the only logical option. cheap, it fits, and if you forego the luxuries it'd be easy as heck to hook up.

[Grandpa]

Yawn. Yawn. Yawn.

[ThatGuy]

He isn't saying FI as in Fuel Injection, he is referring to FI=Forced Induction, i.e. Turbo, Supercharger, Nitrous Oxide.

Doug, you should've been more specific. :D

*edit*--OK, your edited post is just Post Whoring. I'd suggest editing it again to include something more productive. :rl:

[CaoBoY]

hey makoto, go look up this guy on nicoclub.com, his username is aries, he threw in a v8, i think it was an SS motor or something (im not too big on v8's and i forgot which motor he put in anyways). fuckin crazy motor, it was mildly built wiht just cams i believe, and he was running 11's in an s14 chassis. lemme see if i can find the link

[CaoBoY]

http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=119535 i dont know if the links still work there, but if they do, check those videos out. pretty nice!
:edit: links do work, just watched the videos. follow ur dreams, and kick those lil fucks asses on the track, own them, and steal their jdm loving souls and shit afterwards.

[zenkiDori]

I'm sad that you won't be doing this project, I was hoping to copy you! ;)

I have always thought that V8s in RX7s was stupid(maybe not stupid, just not my style), because I love the rotary engine, but I think a V8 in a 240 would be a great idea, and I've got one of those too! I don't have the same affinity for the KA or SR that I do for the rotary, so I wouldn't mind tossing them aside in favor of a V8, and I'm not a huge skyline RB09238409820985DETTTTOMFGJDM fan. So this thread has inspired me to go looking for V8s, and I'm not just BSing like most of my projects, I've been pricing things out and everything. So far I've decided on a 302 from a carbureted mustang, because they're cheap as hell($600-$700). I admit I don't exactly know 100% what I'm doing, but I have people i can ask and after I have the motor in my garage I feel things will go much smoother. I think this project would be a lot better than putting carbs on my KA, which was kinda my original idea. Basically my plan is to copy with the V8 RX7 guys do(there are a lot of them), just on a 240, sound good?

As far as tuning, all I plan to do is cams, exhaust and carbs, nothing else.

[Var]

I'm sad that you won't be doing this project, I was hoping to copy you! ;)

I have always thought that V8s in RX7s was stupid(maybe not stupid, just not my style), because I love the rotary engine, but I think a V8 in a 240 would be a great idea, and I've got one of those too! I don't have the same affinity for the KA or SR that I do for the rotary, so I wouldn't mind tossing them aside in favor of a V8, and I'm not a huge skyline RB09238409820985DETTTTOMFGJDM fan. So this thread has inspired me to go looking for V8s, and I'm not just BSing like most of my projects, I've been pricing things out and everything. So far I've decided on a 302 from a carbureted mustang, because they're cheap as hell($600-$700). I admit I don't exactly know 100% what I'm doing, but I have people i can ask and after I have the motor in my garage I feel things will go much smoother. I think this project would be a lot better than putting carbs on my KA, which was kinda my original idea. Basically my plan is to copy with the V8 RX7 guys do(there are a lot of them), just on a 240, sound good?

As far as tuning, all I plan to do is cams, exhaust and carbs, nothing else.


. I was planning to do the same thing as you but i decided to go with the FC. I've always liked FC's and how they handle. They are very capable chassis. After i researched the LS1 into S13, i figured it was too much work. When i found out how easy it was to do on RX7's, i decided to buy me a FC shell. The reason i didnt have an FC before is cause i think rotaries are the stupidest contraptions ever invented. So +1 on a better chassis, and +100000 on a better motor. LS1 FC is the way to go.

[Ian]

if i were to do it..i'd get a roots type blower on top w/ a hilborn scoop...and a cutout w/ no shield haha


i tremble at teh though of a 3" belt driven supercharger sticking out of the hood of my "rice rocket"

[MakotoS13]

dude, its been done.
http://www.makotoseven.com/240/level3/v8_240.jpg

i forgot how fast it is but suffice it to say pretty fuggin fast. single digits i believe. too bad its fugly as hell.

[420sx]

dude..... s fuckin s14 with the sound v8 and all that power..... but yea im totally givin into the blower with the scoop. fuckin wicked. it will be the most wicked ride on the street. period. fucka supra

[420sx]

dude, its been done.
i forgot how fast it is but suffice it to say pretty fuggin fast. single digits i believe. too bad its fugly as hell.

that is just nasty doug. that car is fugliness of the beyondness. nice engine setup tho:)))

[SochBAT]

that kit is the sweetness!

Maky, keep at the project. It'll b refreshing when people rant about the V8 240 driven by a happy zilvian.

Throw more rarity into the 240 scene.

+1 for Mak's ingenuity.
-1 for my misspelling if you find it.

[Ian]

i would love to drift w/ the power and torque of a V8...it'd be a refreshing feeling compared to running out of power when trying to go from a small to big turn

[RBS14]

hahaha you guys make me laugh. "I'm sad you aren't going to do it, I was gonna copy you."

I can't believe you actually thought he would do this project. Wow people are gullible these days.

I think it's funny that him giving up is a shock to some of you.

hahahaha

[infinitexsound]

^ i agree scott... but oh well doug will do something to suffice his passion

[MakotoS13]

hahaha you guys make me laugh. "I'm sad you aren't going to do it, I was gonna copy you."

I can't believe you actually thought he would do this project. Wow people are gullible these days.

I think it's funny that him giving up is a shock to some of you.

hahahaha

dude you act like its some great struggle. i changed my mind, its that simple. there are reasons but it really doesn't matter why.

its been done with 302's, ls1's, and lt1s so your laughter just shows how little you know. its quite feasible i'd just rather buy a car with much more performance ability than waste a crapton of cash on the S13.

[Grandpa]

He isn't saying FI as in Fuel Injection, he is referring to FI=Forced Induction, i.e. Turbo, Supercharger, Nitrous Oxide.

Doug, you should've been more specific. :D

*edit*--OK, your edited post is just Post Whoring. I'd suggest editing it again to include something more productive. :rl:

I realized my mistake, but it wouldn't let me delete it. :Ownedd:

[RBS14]

I know it's been done, and how much it fucking rocks. My comment wasn't aimed towards the engine, or the swap.

[MakotoS13]

oh, so you're just trying to insult me. good luck with that.

[lilredstiffy]

makoto just save up and buy a c4 corvette

150mph = check
v8= check
popups= check

lot less work !

[MakotoS13]

actually i was thinking C5.

173mph = check
LS1 = check
pop ups = check

someone else paying for depreciation on a 50 thousand dollar sports car = priceless