timing chain replacement DOHC

[NinjaGaiden]

These are the parts I purchased to replace:

Upper, lower chains
Upper guide
lower L+R guide
upper and lower tensioner
CAM gear
Crank Gear
Oil Seal

Here is the question. I started looking at the book, and they tell me to remove the oil pan and remove the head to replace the timing chain? Is NISSAN nuts?

*no wonder these cars lose all their value after 10 years when the timing chain costs this much to replace (time or money if taken to shop). .... just venting :cry:

Anyways, I have a concern and instruction questions. First, when I take off the front timing cover... the front part of the head gasket is exposed... when I take off the bottom cover, that part of the head gasket will be coming off with it. Do I keep the headgasket with the cover and just cut it where it needs to come off?

Second, I'm pretty sure I wont have to take off the oil pan evnethough the manual says to do so, and also the head. So, those who have changed the head themselves, did you remove the head and/or the oil pan to get ur timing chain repalced? If I have to, I'm going to rethink this.

Let me know your inputs.

Thanks,

Ninja


pic of the progress:

pic of front engine
http://home.myuw.net/gmakx/pics/andy_block/timing_chain_0002.JPG

pic of upper chain
http://home.myuw.net/gmakx/pics/andy_block/timing_chain_0001.JPG

[240silvia]

Good luck man.... keep us posted.

[FRpilot]

holy gangster. wassup gus. this me kenny. well it seems like a tough job. did u pull out ur radiator and everything? make a writeup! haha

[Andrew Bohan]

you need to take off the oil pan because the front of it bolts to the lower front cover.
you do not need to take off the head.
when you take off the upper cover, part of the head gasket is exposed. when you take off the lower front cover, the head gasket just sticks out from between the head and block, with nothing on either face.

you can kinda see it here.
http://guernsey.globat.com/%7Emountainracer.com/tunetech/ka_swap/1001.jpg

[NinjaGaiden]

you need to take off the oil pan because the front of it bolts to the lower front cover.
you do not need to take off the head.
when you take off the upper cover, part of the head gasket is exposed. when you take off the lower front cover, the head gasket just sticks out from between the head and block, with nothing on either face.

you can kinda see it here.
7Emountainracer.com/tunetech/ka_swap/1001.jpg[/IMG]

Yo, Sup Drift. Thanks for the pics man. Ok, I'm glad I dont have to take off the head. I'll try to take plenty of pictures... and if i'm not lazy i'll write it up.
I removed my fan shroud and clutch fan because I'm installing electric fans.

Anyways, thanks drift... I hope to get this done by end of next weekend.

cheers,

Ninja

[mav1178]

Why didn't you get new tensioners?

If you are doing a chain job the two tensioners should be replaced... and you might as well replace the oil pump gears.

There is NO NEED to change the timing chain; only need to remove the two guides on the upper chain when it makes noise. I knew a guy with over 350K on his stock block '93 KA that never had to have timing chain service... the timing chain system is designed to last the life of the engine.

-alex

[NinjaGaiden]

Why didn't you get new tensioners?

If you are doing a chain job the two tensioners should be replaced... and you might as well replace the oil pump gears.

There is NO NEED to change the timing chain; only need to remove the two guides on the upper chain when it makes noise. I knew a guy with over 350K on his stock block '93 KA that never had to have timing chain service... the timing chain system is designed to last the life of the engine.

-alex


I got new tensioners as well, just forgot to put them on the list. I will however change the chains. I checked the chain out, and they are not cracked, but you can see that they are a little worn out. Since I'm doing all this work already I might as well change it.

but yeah, i will be changing the tensioners as well.

[NinjaGaiden]

holy gangster. wassup gus. this me kenny. well it seems like a tough job. did u pull out ur radiator and everything? make a writeup! haha

yo, what up kenny!!! Man, OR is great because it rains all the time, but I'm gonna have to go to a drift event down there and come visit you guys as well.

[FRpilot]

hey gus. i guess ur coming down for 1/15 ncda at thunderhill? if so. ill see you there..

Why didn't you get new tensioners?

If you are doing a chain job the two tensioners should be replaced... and you might as well replace the oil pump gears.

There is NO NEED to change the timing chain; only need to remove the two guides on the upper chain when it makes noise. I knew a guy with over 350K on his stock block '93 KA that never had to have timing chain service... the timing chain system is designed to last the life of the engine.

-alex

so what should be replaced for a timing chain job? the tensioners and oil pump gears.

im contemplating about doing a chain job also because i have to deal with the bitch of doing a headgasket job.. might as well pull the whole engine out and make it easier to do.

[jdmek4sir]

the same thing is happening to my 91' hatch. i can see that pic of the single cam, but is there much of a difference between the single and dual-cam motors visually as well as parts? Also, just to make sure in order to fix this annoying sound, the parts i need are: lower and upper tensioners, upper guide, lower (left & right) guides correct?

[Andrew Bohan]

the pic i showed is a dual cam. the large sproket at the top is not a cam. it's the idle sprocket, which drives the cams via the upper timing chain, which is not shown in the pic. the idler sprocket is driven by the crank via then lower timing chain.

[neilsan]

Ive done this job 3 times.

my advice is to buy a complete kit from Nissan or SA Gear (google). Nissan sells each part individually and is more expensive in total than a repro 'kit', but the first kit i did the job with came from www.alloemautoparts.com. Though not SA Gear brand, it served its purpose reliably. The 2nd time i did this job was on my current Coupe, in which I used InnerFireEngine components from eBay. I felt good about saving $50, but soon after didnt feel good about having to replace the kit (3rd time i did the job) with SA Gear brand parts because of the InnerFireEngine (aka Topline, fyi) components never working appropriately in the first place.

What ive learned about SA is that they produce new timing kits for the KADE with updated design in parts instead of reproducing the design from 1991.

To replace the kit with the motor still in the car, the way to drop the oil pan is by getting the KADE off its motor mounts and jacking it up by the transmission bell housing. Once the side plates are off, then you can undo the pan and lower it enough to get the oil pickup undone from the bottom of the lower timing cover. Once that's out, then you have room to pull the pan out. The front timing covers only use gasket sealent 'pon reassebly(i used black rtv), but there's a small tophat seal that seals off the coupling of the output of the oil pump (which is inside the lower front cover) to the main input on the front of the block. Itd be a good idea to replace it, and theyre cheap but they also come in Fel-Pro head gasket kits if you're thinking about doing that anytime soon.

A 'might as well' mod reccomended by me is to replace your rod bearings while the oil pan is down and you have access. Theyre only $40.


OR, you could just remove that top cover plate between the cams if you're only worried about a little noise. that may help, and its free. Nissan has their own dealership technicians discard this piece if they're in there. Timing chains can make noise for a good while without being detremental anyway, but the noise can be embarrasing or worrysome.

Actuallly my reccomendation at this point is to take the cam cover off (5 mins) and manually push in and out the upper tensioner. See if you can free it up a little. The tensioners are oil fed and can get gunked up and not be able to push as far out into the chain to remove slack as theyre originally intended to do. Don't worry if when you let go there's still slack in the chain. remember its oil fed. drive it around the block and see how it goes.

[infinitexsound]

when removing the cam part of the chains... make sure u use a wrench to hold the cam. so u dont fuck up ur timing... just snip ur gasket and use silicone... use a thumb tack to hold the piston if u have to.. i doubt it tho... oh well have fun.. cant wait to do mines.....ohh yah make ur marks...

so basically all these generic kits are booty.... basically gotta stick with the nissan ones... what a good brand that is aftermarket?

[neilsan]

Im currently using an S.A. Gear timing kit, as per my above post. have been for 3500 miles or so. Its quiet and the timing marks are dead still under a light. The motor runs like a top.

http://www.partsamerica.com/BrandCategories.aspx?MfrCode=SGE

[infinitexsound]

thanks dude... this helps alot....