[92 240sx LE] vs. [95 Civic Si (V-tec)]

[XxDriverxX]

hey..

I have an Auto (I know, GRR) 92 s13 LE hatchback. It has the stock KA24DE - 2.4 liter L4 DOHC engine at around 156 horses. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/satisfied.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':satisfied:'>

Now a friend of mine has a Standard 95 Honda Civic Si, which runs 1.6L 125 hp I4 w/ V-tec. Also stock <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sneaky.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':pissed:'>

He has the advantage of having a newer car, less miles on the engine, 500lbs lighter and being a Manual. But I have the advantage of having about 30 more horses and a bigger engine (2.4 vs 1.6).

Here is the question. Why the hell do I feel like his car is Faster and has more power? I always make fun of his car cause its a "honda civic" (lol) and tell him that my car can rape him. Now I'm having second doubts and wonder if I should risk racing him. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/butbut.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':but:'>

How well of a chance do I have? My car is in good condition, and so is his.. Could it be that it fdeels powerfull cause his is manual and mine is auto? Would Manual over Auto have a REALLY big advantage <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

Any feedback is good &nbsp;

Thanks

[thewholefnshow]

Simple, torque. Go in a car with some torque as opposed to just power, you get a smoother more uniform acceleration, plus we have multilink suspension, which really hlps to prevent the car from going back and forth like a see - saw (you will notice our cars don't have heavy nose dive under braking, even with stock sloppy suspension) The smoothness of that, and the torquiness of the engine make you acceleration more linear and therefore not as abrupt and or impressive feeling at times, but look at the spedometer when you hit 50 miles an hour in 5th, you will still pull and his lack of torque will start to show... my Neon felt fast cause it was stiff stock, and very peppy like a honda, rather than smooth like our cars.

Oh, and the auto tranny makes everything I just said even more apparent, and it would probably be a close race... I say try, it's just your pride... you can buy pride back with mods.

[HippoSleek]

I'd say it's all about the 5 speed. &nbsp;I sold my 5th gen Si for my s14 (both manual). &nbsp;The bottom line is the s14 will beat and old Si and run with a new one (straight line - turns are too dependant on the driver). &nbsp;BUT... w/o a manual, your car will feel slower. &nbsp;You can't hold a gear right at peak power or get instant downshift satisfaction.

Not to mention that the Si is a light, tossable, very agile little car w/ a decent amount of power. &nbsp;Add this to a stick and your car would probably feel a bit boat-like, comparatively.

[MorganS13]

here are my experiences with 2 newer Si's. &nbsp;the first one i took off the line (no surprise) and beat by at least a car up till 50, after that he cut in behind me RIGHT on my ass for no reason on an empty 2 lane road, couldn't even see his headlights (thats pretty damn close when u can't see a civics headlights). &nbsp;out of natural reaction &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> &nbsp;i "tapped" my brakes a couple times to let him know to back off... dumbass didn't listen. &nbsp;next time i wasn't so nice and he locked up at least 2 of his tires for sure, he wasn't tailing me after that...

the second experience was on the highway goin about 60 and right next to a different newer Si. &nbsp;I pulled up, looked over, he looked at me and we both downshifted and took off, we were dead even from 60-95 or 100 with him startin to pull at the end. &nbsp;keep in my this is when my 93 SE HB 5-speed was stock.

take whatever u want from these but i always had witnesses in my car or around me and i have no reason to make up some story to prove anythin... just my .02 &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':cool:'>

[97S14]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (XxDriverxX @ Mar. 14 2002,08:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now a friend of mine has a Standard 95 Honda Civic Si, which runs 1.6L 125 hp I4 w/ V-tec. Also stock <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sneaky.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':pissed:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
His car doesn't have VTEC. &nbsp;The 1.6L vtec engines pushes out 160 hp.
Anyways, you do have more torque and bottom end. &nbsp;If you beat him off the line you most likely will win.

Mike

[luey02]

Yes it is Si and it has 160 hp and not 125hp. &nbsp;Race him, even if you lose, it would be close so you wouldn't lose all of your pride.

mike, we'll see who's right. lol..

[SaskS14]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (97S14 @ Mar. 14 2002,10:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (XxDriverxX @ Mar. 14 2002,08:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now a friend of mine has a Standard 95 Honda Civic Si, which runs 1.6L 125 hp I4 w/ V-tec. Also stock <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sneaky.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':pissed:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
His car doesn't have VTEC. The 1.6L vtec engines pushes out 160 hp.
Anyways, you do have more torque and bottom end. If you beat him off the line you most likely will win.

Mike</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
The DOHC VTEC 1.6 didn't come in the Civic until after '95 (except of course for the Del Sol). The '95 SI would be a 1.6 SOHC VTEC with about 125 hp. Now this is of course talking about the Canadian SI. Remember that a Canadian SI is a US EX.

My friend has a '93 SI with I/H/E and we have gone at it a few times. I can take him off the line easy (I only have a short ram). After we get up to about 90 km/h he starts to gain slowly. As for in the 1/4 mile I don't know who would win. It would most likely be close.

[thewholefnshow]

Thanks for adding that about the sohc, that engine is around 125, it is a 12 valve like the del sol, only a 1.6 instead of 1.5 or whatever, to intake one exhaust I think.

[HippoSleek]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SaskS14 @ Mar. 14 2002,12:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (97S14 @ Mar. 14 2002,10:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (XxDriverxX @ Mar. 14 2002,08:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now a friend of mine has a Standard 95 Honda Civic Si, which runs 1.6L 125 hp I4 w/ V-tec. Also stock <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sneaky.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':pissed:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
His car doesn't have VTEC. The 1.6L vtec engines pushes out 160 hp.
Anyways, you do have more torque and bottom end. If you beat him off the line you most likely will win.

Mike</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
The DOHC VTEC 1.6 didn't come in the Civic until after '95 (except of course for the Del Sol). The '95 SI would be a 1.6 SOHC VTEC with about 125 hp. Now this is of course talking about the Canadian SI. Remember that a Canadian SI is a US EX.

My friend has a '93 SI with I/H/E and we have gone at it a few times. I can take him off the line easy (I only have a short ram). After we get up to about 90 km/h he starts to gain slowly. As for in the 1/4 mile I don't know who would win. It would most likely be close.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
What he said... except for that Canada part. &nbsp;

5th gen Si (USDM) came w/ 1.6 SOHC vtec rated at 125 hp (no auto trans option <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> ). &nbsp;I thought the DOHC was a Vti in Canada or an SiR?

Either way, DOHC 1.6 vtec motor was available in the Del Sol until 1995, then not again until the Si in 1999. &nbsp;

Stick to stick, stock for stock - the 240 should easily walk on an old Si and will keep up with a new one (up to about 100 mph). &nbsp;If both cars have mods, they stay close, if the newer Si has I/H/E, it will creep. &nbsp;Old Si w/ DOHC (hybrid) will roll you either way.

[HippoSleek]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (thewholefnshow @ Mar. 14 2002,12:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thanks for adding that about the sohc, that engine is around 125, it is a 12 valve like the del sol, only a 1.6 instead of 1.5 or whatever, to intake one exhaust I think.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
no - its a 16 valve. &nbsp;

here
<a href="http://hybrid.honda-perf.org/tech/engine.html" target='_blank'>http://hybrid.honda-perf.org/tech/engine.html</a>

[XxDriverxX]

Thankyou alls o much for all your input..

THE RACE IS TONIGHT!!!! God damnit, lol..

Anyways, who gives a shit, i'm just consirned about him being a 5-speeed and me being an Auto..

But about the Stats, I looked at his Engine, it says V-tech on it, I looked in www.carpoint.com it said 125 horses, 1.6L.. &nbsp;And yes, we ARE in Canada.. So I dont know, is it 160 horses or 125? Cause that would suck if he has 160.. Then I REALLY dont have chance..

I'll keep you all updated after the Race.,. Pray for me <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[Ni5mo180SX]

My friend was in the same situation as you, S14 95' againist a 96'ish hatch. Well to cut things short, the hatch was stick and the 240 auto and the 240 lost. Sorry to say this but if I was betting on you guys tonight and your friend was a pretty good stick driver, id bet on the civic. Still, good luck tonight.

[SaskS14]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HippoSleek @ Mar. 13 2002,1:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteBegin--SaskS14+Mar. 14 2002,12<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SaskS14 @ Mar. 14 2002,12<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (97S14 @ Mar. 14 2002,10:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (XxDriverxX @ Mar. 14 2002,08:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now a friend of mine has a Standard 95 Honda Civic Si, which runs 1.6L 125 hp I4 w/ V-tec. Also stock <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sneaky.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':pissed:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
His car doesn't have VTEC. The 1.6L vtec engines pushes out 160 hp.
Anyways, you do have more torque and bottom end. If you beat him off the line you most likely will win.

Mike</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
The DOHC VTEC 1.6 didn't come in the Civic until after '95 (except of course for the Del Sol). The '95 SI would be a 1.6 SOHC VTEC with about 125 hp. Now this is of course talking about the Canadian SI. Remember that a Canadian SI is a US EX.

My friend has a '93 SI with I/H/E and we have gone at it a few times. I can take him off the line easy (I only have a short ram). After we get up to about 90 km/h he starts to gain slowly. As for in the 1/4 mile I don't know who would win. It would most likely be close.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
What he said... except for that Canada part.

5th gen Si (USDM) came w/ 1.6 SOHC vtec rated at 125 hp (no auto trans option <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> ). I thought the DOHC was a Vti in Canada or an SiR?

Either way, DOHC 1.6 vtec motor was available in the Del Sol until 1995, then not again until the Si in 1999.

Stick to stick, stock for stock - the 240 should easily walk on an old Si and will keep up with a new one (up to about 100 mph). If both cars have mods, they stay close, if the newer Si has I/H/E, it will creep. Old Si w/ DOHC (hybrid) will roll you either way.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
As far as I know the 5G did not come with the DOHC 1.6 except for the Del Sol. &nbsp;So why is everyone arguing over it!!! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

So if you are racing a '95 CDN Si it will be close. &nbsp;You will take the lead early but he will catch eventually.

[HippoSleek]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ni5mo180SX @ Mar. 14 2002,2:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My friend was in the same situation as you, S14 95' againist a 96'ish hatch. Well to cut things short, the hatch was stick and the 240 auto and the 240 lost. Sorry to say this but if I was betting on you guys tonight and your friend was a pretty good stick driver, id bet on the civic. Still, good luck tonight.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
If it was a 96 hatch, it didn't even have vtec. &nbsp;It was the anemic 1.5L 106 hp. &nbsp;Even an auto should have beat that - unless it was a hybrid!

[Ni5mo180SX]

lol yea, theres something up with this car. Its had its fair of surprising kills, some of them you guys wouldnt even believe. Add that to the fact that my friend with the hatch is an extremly quick shifter (his tranny's starting to show the consequences). Yea and the civics stock except for the occasional removal of the airbox lol &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

[240sxracer]

i have an auto too i can get it to go quicker when i shift it manually and i keep the overdrive off till i need to shift again after its in drive.

[XxDriverxX]

Hello everybody.

Well.. I just came back, I'm a god damn looser! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

It was a VERY close race, but MAN! &nbsp;He SWEAFT through the first, second and third gear while my Auto BULLSHIT was still stuck in FU$#@%@$^ 2nd! &nbsp;Holy shit, it takes my car forever to change to third!.. This is what happened..

His start was ofcourse WAY more powerfull being a manual, I ghad an OK start, we were pretty close till he hit on third and I was still struggling with second, the moment my third caught on, I was pretty much a meter behind him, then after my third hit in, i gained power and I caught up to his driver seat, and it was like that till 160-170km/h and I had to give up <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!?? I thought my car was actually faster than his! &nbsp;I mean, his is a 95 Vtec (Canadian spec) does ANY one know what it's at? 160 horses? It cant be 135 (like what MSN carpoint says). &nbsp;He sure doesnt!

I have repairs due next week. &nbsp;My mechanic told me i HAD to change my gad filter, my spark plugs, my tranny fluid.. Could that be robing alot of horses from me?

Someone make me feel good about my car before I go out and kick the hell out of it.. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

[Ni5mo180SX]

haha, sucks man, Sorry to hear that but I kinda felt it coming. My 240 used to be auto at one time too and i feel your pain, it sucked. Whats the gearing 1st-35, 2nd-65, 3rd-105!! lolol. The civics stick, big advantage and the 240 has the slushbox auto tranny. With a couple mods you'll feel better about your car. Go with I/H/E to open up the breathing on it initially. Go a little more into the NA route and you'll have Si's GSR's and Ludes in your rearview. I know how it feels to be down there lol. Let me know if you need advice if you go the NA route.

[XxDriverxX]

Hi..

Thanks bro <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

Well, I'm pretty new to this. &nbsp;Shes my first car, I love her to death still and I'd do anything to make her better. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'> &nbsp; This was my first drag race anyways..

But go slow with me, I'm new to cars all together. &nbsp;Whats I/H/E, is that Intake? and what is NA if I wanted to take the NA-route exactly? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/notify.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':notify:'>

[Ni5mo180SX]

I/h/E=intake, headers, exhaust and NA=naturally aspirated so no turbos or anything. At a point you have to choose whether to go turbo or NA each obviously leading away from each other. I personally loved NA on my SOHC motor and had it to the point where I was competing with some of the higher power vtec motors and some turbo DSM's.

[Datsun_Man]

Well if your plugs are fowling then your engine response will be lessened. Auto tranny fluid, if its dirty, will slow you slightly because the tranny has to work harder and the fluid makes for harder shifting, should soften up a bit when you get it changed for quicker shifting. Also ... dirty filter is a dirty filter ... but I would expect your car to fair slightly better than before. If I were you I would do some sleeper mods to your car and race this guy again with out him knowing, hehhehe pisses off my friends; they think their Hondas are dying when they are 2 car lengths behind when they were along side me before hahahhaha gotta love displacement all-be-it 0.8L . I beat out a B18C5, yeah its a type-R motor, swapped Hatch that had a CAI and Exhaust with my N/A KA24DE with pulleys, headers, hi-flow cat, ported heads, CAI, Exhaust, Cams, Cam gears, and JWT ECU. It was a decent race but the Honda's dont have anything when the KA gets some help out in the top end. Although it is a bit disconcerning when the Honda does more than a little chirp and you see smoke when shifting into 2nd. Either way the Honda was smellin my fumes the whole way.

[Ni5mo180SX]

Yea cam work made the world of difference for me.

[XxDriverxX]

Thanks..

Well my Engine has 130,000miles on it, so I aint going for no turbo. &nbsp;It's NA for sure..

Intake I'm getting for sure, Exauhst, I'm really not sure, but headers, I dont know what that's all about. &nbsp;What is the work required for that and is it really worth it?

Datsun_Man, When I press ont he gas, it takes my car almost a second to react to the gas and hear the engine scream. &nbsp;Could that be cause of my spark plugs/filter?

[Datsun_Man]

Yep ... that lag that is felt between accellerator flooring and the actually car reacting is gonna always be there b/c its an auto but the fact that your car is getting older and the fact that you have a dirty filter and old plugs does hamper things a bit. I would suggest tuning up your motor w/ new filter and plugs then I would opt for a CAI, I like the Injen unit w/ Cold Air Extension, along with headers down exhaust work. Headers can be made to help low to mid to high end power. I would suggest the upgrade as it helps with torque and adds a few ponies which come to life after the exhaust work and intake. Free flo-cat and a free flo-exhaust would help the response and loosen up the high end power and give you a bit more ponies. The major N/a gains are in cams and timing but I dont suggest that for your high milage motor. With a CAI, headers, and exhaust you will feel the added power and enjoy the nice roar of the KA. Be sure to wrap your headers or have them coated with a ceramic base to lower temps in the engine bay and to make the sound lower and stronger sounding when it exits the exhaust.

[ca18guy]

Yeah yeah yeah get power uogrades thats great but if your launcing technique sucks it won't matter. How did you launch? You said it was your first "drag race" did you power brake it? I would say you could shift for the car (1, 2, D) But I don't know if that improves times on the 240SX (never been to the track in a auto 240sx)

[XxDriverxX]

Lol..

no, I didn't do any of that.. I'm an idiot man!

Anyways, i got some people from www.nissan-240sx.org helping me out ont hat. &nbsp;Thank you all very much <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[mistert]

sounds like it was very close, i think you could've won with your car as it is if you had a proper launch technique. ask him for a retry now, or maybe after you get those maintenance things done...heres how you should've done it

to power brake stomp on the brake as hard as you can with your left foot. ease onto the power right your right foot until the car feels like its rearing to go and is about to break loose. then, when its time to go, let go of the brake and slam on the gas. you should chirp the tires quite a bit like this if your engine is healthy enough. it'll get you off the line a whole lot quicker, and solve your problem with the slow accelerator response. go practice it a few times by yourself, i think you might be able to win if you had a retry

[Tuck&Poke]

well if its an si and its from 95 then it most likely has the del sol si engine which is the 160hp 1.6 dohc vtec engine. &nbsp;so you put up a good fight if it has that engine

[XxDriverxX]

well its stock!

the guy never touched his engine when he baught the car! &nbsp;How could it be another car's engine? &nbsp;Do you mean they put the delsoul engine in those cars stock?