ton of smoke at idle sr20 grey/white smoke

[Bradman123]

last time i had my car out was 3 days ago. i took it out drove up the canyon somewhat hard, then when i got to the bottom i whipped some shitties in a parking lot. so it was a pretty hard 45 min on the car. it never overheated...never made a funny noise. even though it was hugging the redline off and one when i did the donuts. i had the car parked for 3 days as while i swapped in my new vlsd pumpkin. after i got done today i took it out. drove up the highway got on it in 4 gear and a little bit in second. when i got back home i let it idle while i swept the garage floor before i parked it. i looked out and it looked like someone set a smoke bomb behind my car. wasnt black, wasnt blue. if anything grey. so you could pry say it was a grayish white smoke. and i cant really describe the smell other then i have never smelt it before on any other car. after i shut off the car there was still some smoke coming out of the exhaust. im guessing head gasket? i drove the car a quite a bit with the timing being close to 5-10 bdc and my plugs being gapped at .045. im a newbie so i didnt no anybetter. but i guess the bucking even though i tried not to do it often hurt it. any opinions on what happened? the day i beat on it in the canyone and parking lot the timing was 15bdc and the plugs are between .027 and .030. sorry for the long post.

[Kid Zelda]

Get compression numbers for each cyl'.

White/grey smoke indiacates coolant, if you had a somewhat "sweet" smell .. coolant

[sr240mike]

You better pray its just a stuck injector and not a headgasket. Like Kidzelda said if it smells sweet and your coolant is dropping the sr is done.

[Dweezil]

A friend of mine had this happen on his KA. The #3 injector failed and even after replaceing it it still smoked from all the unburned crap in the exhaust. If you were running hard you might have loaded it with fuel and it just needs to burn off.

[Bradman123]

You better pray its just a stuck injector and not a headgasket. Like Kidzelda said if it smells sweet and your coolant is dropping the sr is done.

why do you say its done like its the end of the friggin world man. tryin to scare me or what. its gotta be fixable...just cuz the head gasket goes doesnt mean the whole thing is screwed...so far this project has been nothing but problems. pry shoulda never got the car.

[Dweezil]

If you put your hand by the exhaust, some of the exhaust will condense on your hand. If that smells sweet, your burning coolant. If it is watery and smells like gas, you either loaded up the exhaust, have a bad injector or o-ring, or your O2 sensor is toast.

Just to be safe do a compression test anyway.

[Bradman123]

i picked up a compression tester today, im going to check it tomorrow. but i still dont understand why that guy said "the sr is done" that just pisses me off.

[sr240mike]

Because a blown headgasket fuckin sucks. You have to pull the motor. Have the block and head inspected to see if its warped and possibly have it machined. If the head is bad you need to source another one. Then you have to put it all back together and hope it runs right. Thats why.

[Vatche]

your turbo might be bad....i had the same problem my turbo shaft eventually broke in half.....just letting u know that might be it....

[Bradman123]

i can see it being bad if a shit load of water got into the oil and oil into the water. but if the water is just getting burned off while the motor is running i dont see how it would cause so much damage. how would it warp the block or damage the head?

[Bradman123]

your turbo might be bad....i had the same problem my turbo shaft eventually broke in half.....just letting u know that might be it....

im gonna pull the hot pipe and look for oil tomorrow...but the seals could still be bad on the exhaust side and only way to know if that is the problem would be replace it and hope that works. or rule the motor out by checking compression or something. my friend had a turbo go bad on his eclipse and it smoked like a mutha. but his smelled different...im just gonna have to start it up again i guess and get a better idea of what it smells and looks like.

[Dweezil]

Because a blown headgasket fuckin sucks. You have to pull the motor. Have the block and head inspected to see if its warped and possibly have it machined. If the head is bad you need to source another one. Then you have to put it all back together and hope it runs right. Thats why.

Heads can be rebuilt, and blocks don't normally warp unless they've been severaly overheated. If the gasket is bad you can just use the proper size feeler guage and a straight edge to check both to see if there warped.

[Bradman123]

THANK YOU for being optomistic lol...im hoping i can get away with just replacing the head gasket. and while im there rebuilding the head. with new springs, retainers, exhaust seats, and valves if needed. will it show up on my compression test for sure if it is the head gasket. or am i not going to know for sure until i tear it down? if sr is supposed to be the all mighty how come i got so many problems. not that im dissing on the sr...but i just dont understand. maybe i just got a lemmon...or maybe im retarded and its just the owner...

[Bradman123]

by the way, ITS NEVER OVERHEATED. its started to heat up. but i always shut it down and let it cool off then took it home. that was before i got my dual flex-a-lite fans and had a single 14" permacool. now it never heats up. have koyo rad, fans, and new thermo. possibly having it heat up a couple times but never going passed one notch before red on my factory gauge (S13) and having the timing be off for so long coulda did enough damage to the head gasket. i just hope it didnt pecker up the pistons...i never heard anything that sounded like extreme detonation. or any detonation for that matter. just bucking car and spitting exhaust sound.

[Dweezil]

Depends on what your compression is. If everything comes out good, do a leak-down test to ensure that everthing is sealed. Also just because the factory guage diden't say it was to hot dosen't mean it diden't overheat. Without an accurate guage for temp. you can't know for sure. Factory guages seem to delay getting to hot untill after it's to late, I know mine did.

[Bradman123]

ya when the car was heating up i was contimplating getting a temp gauge. but one of the guys at enjuku said the s13 gauges are pretty accurate. its the s14 gauges that are goofy. i will post my compression numbers when i get them.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Yah check the turbo too for shaft play. If the smoke somewhat goes away when you drive it, it could be the turbo. check the compressor side, around isnt bad as long as it not alot where u can do figure 8s with it. In and out is bad so that could be our other reason for the smoke.

[Bradman123]

naw i dont think its the turbo...gotta be somethin worse. i checked the compression with the motor cold. unplugged cas and removed the fuel pump fuse and cranked about 3-5 seconds when i tested each cylinder, maybe 2 seconds on the first cylinder. anyway i got 110, 130, 130, 130. those are horrible numbers that make me wanna puke. i wasnt able to get a wrench on the fitting to tighten it real tight into the plug hole. but i think it was tight enough to be air tight. but just to throw another symptom into the mix. when i unscrew the oil cap while the motor is running a shit load of air is just pumping from it. feels like 5-10 psi at least...pry more. could it be my valve guides? my oil looked clean and was at the full level and has been like that since i put it in 1200 miles ago. and my coolant appears to be fine. the plugs were black, with a hint of rust color or brown. rust color! not actual rust! could be though...dont know enough to say its not for sure. any more ideas?

[Dweezil]

Sounds good so far. Try leaving the radiator cap off and see if any bubbles come up once the car gets to operating temp. It should take about 15 minutes before the thermostat starts cycling and you can tell than. If that checks out, you can safely conclude that the head gasket is fine and the problem is somewhere else.

[Bradman123]

ok, left the radiator cap off for 11 min...the radiator was starting to heat up and the coolant was steaming...no obvious bubbles. just some disturbance in the water from the engine vabrating. the amount of air coming from the oil cap is un real....i dont remember it ever doing this before. its even blowin oil up so that its wet around the cap hole. coolant still looks perfect. oil looks like oil with 1400 miles on it.

[Dweezil]

Sounds like a bad breather or PCV valve. Make sure there the breather is open an pull your PCV valve and clean it with carb cleaner or replace it.

[Bradman123]

could you tell me where the pcv valve is. that might be a stupid question but i dont know. and how would the breather be bad.

[Bradman123]

why would i have such terrible compression numbers though?

[Dweezil]

I believe the PCV is under the intake manifold. Check a service manual to confirm it though. The breater could be plugged and the pressure is forcing the oil out where ever it can. You ran your compression test with the engine cold and I'm assuming the tr=hrottle plate was closed also.

[Bradman123]

should i test the compression again with the motor warm and the throttle pressed down and see what i get?

[sr240mike]

Excess crankcase pressure can be blowby from the piston rings. I doubt its the pcv. Sorry if I sounded so negative before. The compression numbers may go up a bit if you run the test while the engine is warm and the throttle is fully opened. Here is how to read the spark plugs http://www.aati.com.au/hirth/how_to_read_sparkplugs.htm

[Bradman123]

k i retested the compression just now with the motor slightly warm from when i checked the coolant for bubbles about an hour ago. i had the throttle full pressed and all the plugs out. my compression came back 140 138 140 140...they were all close enough to 140 you could say it was 140 across the board but the 2nd cylinder was a little bit under the 140 mark. i checked my breather. i pulled the t out its nto plugged and i pulled the lines going to the intake and to the catch tank the lines arent plugged. i dont know how to judge the condition of the factory catch can. as for the line coming from the rear passenger's side fo the motor to one of the hard lines that runs to two spots on the intake manifold that line i just replaced about 3 weeks ago cuz i could hear it leaking air. so the hard lines could be plugged on that side. and i didnt check the pcv valve cuz i have to find it...haha. keep throwin out ideas.

[Bradman123]

as for reading the plugs, mine look closest to the bottom one on that page...but i seriously dont think its a rich condition. i shouldnt have air billowing from my oil fill cap.

[Dweezil]

Excess crankcase pressure can be blowby from the piston rings. I doubt its the pcv.

You can end up with escess crankcase pressure from a bad PCV valve. I've had it happen on my DSM. It would push the dipstick out and splah oil on the exhaust and turbo.

[Bradman123]

i have no air coming from the dip stick tube...would that rule out the piston rings at all or tell anything more?

[Dweezil]

Not really, it's just a common problem on DSMs. As far as air being pushed out of the oil cap, try getting a rubber gasket to put around the cap and make sure it's tight. If the smoke were blue and smelled like burning rubber then it would probebly be bad rings.

On an off note, have you ever done a full tune up on your car? I'm talking about PCV, plugs, wires, air filter, oil and filter change, you know everything. You should also check if the O2 sensor is burnt up and as a precaution replace the injector o-rings.

[Bradman123]

as for wires since its an sr its coil packs so no there. pcv never been touched. plugs were new when put the sr in but they need to be changed. its been in now for about 4 months. i havnt taken the o2 sensor our. k&n filter. could use a good cleaning. oil and filter change done 1200 miles ago with mobil 1 10w30. and the injector o-rings havng been touched. fuel filter is new. deffinately gray/white and didnt smell like burnt rubber.

[Dweezil]

Brain stopped for a few, forgot about coil packs. A friend of mine had one of his injector o-rings fail and it did the same thing. spend the few dollars on new o-rings and a new O2 sensor. If anything it eliminnates 1 possibility.

[Bradman123]

k i dont think the o-rings and O2 sensor have anything to do with this problem. or i would jump in and replace them right away. but im tight on cash and its looking like this could be a seriously problem so im pinching pennies just in case. so i'd rather not replace something just to have the problem still be there. from what it looked like in the FSM the PCV valve is on the valve cover on the rear passenger's side. i took the fitting out and the fitting is the PCV valve. at least i think that is it. thats what it looked like in the pictures. i put it back in and started the car, i disconnected the line running to it like the fsm says to test it. i heard the hissing sound and the car started to idle rough and sound like it wanted to die. i twisted off the oil fill cap at the same time. idled worse and really wanted to die. there was still a ton of air pumping out of the oil cap. as soon as i plug the line back on the idle goes back to normal. i took the cap off on my geo, and my folks gmc jimmy to see if i felt air from those motors. and i couldnt feel a thing. i also had a friend take the cap off his 2005 RSX and he also couldnt feel air. so this is deffinately something serious goin on. i will probably take it in tomorrow and get it leak down tested. im wondering if i got some valve float when i was doing those donuts in that parking lot and maybe bent a valve...with a bent valve or valves though you would think it would run like shit. i have rocker arm stoppers and from what i've read those are supposed to prevent the valve float at high rpm. and i know i hit 7500 rpm...i never heard a rev limiter though. and isnt that supposed to kick in at like 7600? more ideas would be helpful! thank you

[Dweezil]

Well, I'm starting to run out of the basic ideas. I hate to say it, but you may have something wrong interanally.

When you ran the compression test, did wet fuel come spraying out of any of the cylinders? Also is your oil level higher than the last time you changed it?

[Bradman123]

wet fuel? no...i disconnected the CAS and took the fuel pump fuse out though. and the dip stick oil level is the same as its been since i put the oil in. i would have to agree that it is somethin internal. i think i may have got valve float when i was doin those donuts. which is retarded...how many people have sr20's and dont go drift and whip shitties and hit the red line all the time...i thought that was the point of doing an sr20 swap...and i thought they were supposed to take the abuse. im not very impressed at the moment. but i still coulda been sold a lemmon that was bound to have this happen. ill try and get a leak down test done on it. but either way if its internal i will pry find some way to fund a total rebuild. if that is the case, im real bumbed...but if i look at it positively this thing will be damn near invincable after a rebuild.

[s14 blacktop]

Just curious what kind of exhaust do you have on it?

[Bradman123]

i built my exhaust. its 3" mandrel bent. no cat. with a ebay megan racing 3" in 4" out muffler. greddy 3" down pipe and stock O2 housing. flows damn good. with the system off i can drop a tennis ball downt he down pipe and it will roll all the way out of the muffler with no restriction....:D i took it to a mechanic i actually sorta trust in town. between me and him i think we narrowed it down to being the turbo. im still not positive though. he said there are some motors that just have alot of air come from the oil cap and i shouldnt worry about it. he said the smoke is deffinately oil smoke. and it only smokes when alot of vacuum is created...such as cruising or a steady high rev then let off and give it a quick rev and a huge puff of smoke comes out. he tested my pcv for me said thats all working properly..and i dont really have alot of crank crank case blow by so my rings seem to be fine. he said also that at our elevation compression numbers will be lower. he said 140 across the board is real good. if i had a bent valve then it would show up bad in that cylinder. while we were under the hood he reved it and i noticed my bov wasnt popping off. greddy type s. i had the tensioner half way in...oops. i was getting some nasty compressor surge even with small revs 2500 to 3000 rpm. this very well could be the problem and killed my turbo. i also took the turbo inlet elbow off and fealt for shaft play. yes there is play. but i have limited experience and cant really judge if its too much or not. cuz i know there is supposed to be some. and last but not least there was a film of oil on the inside of the elbow. but it wast wet oil..more like a grease. but was oil. so the evidence is pointing towards the turbo...and the compressor surge seems like a decent cause. any thoughts? how much play should a good turbo have?

[Bradman123]

it actually doesnt smoke driving down the road, its after i cruise down the road then park it and let it idle. it starts billowing out like a smoke stack at a factory. it also continues to simmer a small amount of smoke out AFTER the motor is shut off. after we let it idle for about 15 min. the smoke eventually stopped.

[sr240mike]

Ok, I think you've found your problem then, the turbo's on its way out. If you can pop off the downpipe and see if there's oil in there. Ceramic bearing turbos wont live long if the bov stopped working.

[Bradman123]

YEEEY! most guys would be pissed if they new their turbo was screwed. im actually lookin forward to a new big turbo! haha. so these turbos go pretty quick if there is any type of compressor surge? the bov didnt stop working i just had the tension screw too tight, i went out and loosened it nearly all the way and i dont hear the surge any more just the high pitched hiss from the valve and i feel a ton of air comin out the valve now when it opens. so this ton of air before was all going back and clobbering my turbo..nasty...

[Dweezil]

Congats! What are you going to repalce it with?

[Bradman123]

haha so your sure too...im still gonna pop the down pipe off and see if i can see oil in there. but if compressor surge is a huge killer on these turbos then its pry the case for sure. i was lookin at jgycustoms.com and i like either the gt2871r or the gt25r. those turbos look to have good power and a real quick spool. i will just run low boost until i can upgrade injectors, computer and mafs.

[Bradman123]

well i pulled the down pipe and there was no wet oil. no greasy oil film like i found on my inlet. and i shined a light up in the o2 housing...suprisingly didnt look too bad in there. i could see the O2 sensor and it didnt look chared up. does this make anyone doubt it being the turbo. or is the o2 housing just hot enough when the motor is running to burn up all the oil. if i wipe my finger around the inside of the down pipe i get black sute on my finger..the inside of the muffler is the same way.

[Bradman123]

bump bump bump

[Dweezil]

I think you mentioned it earlier, but wasen't there oil on the compressor side of your turbo?

[Bradman123]

ya in the elbow that bolts onto the turbo. it was a thick greasy film. right where the bend is about an inch wide and went all around the inside. i took it out today. i drove it for 45 min. to an hour straight. never smoked once while i was driving it. never at stop lights nothing. i even parked it in the driveway and let it idle like before for about4-5 minutes and got one puff of smoke..but it was minimal and it was right when the fan kicked on. other then that it stopped and didnt smoke today. last night i took it out and drove it down the road and back and then parked it and let it idle. and after about 2-3 minutes. it started smoking. gives me one puff. then 10-15 sec later another. then 10-15 sec another. then another 10-15 sec it starts billowing out. but like i said today it didnt do it at all. i loosened the tensioning screw on my bov nearly all the way out and i never get any compressor surge. i always hear the valve. what are your thoughts?

[Dweezil]

Compressor surge own3d you. that's all ther is to it. I'd start looking a new turbo, once you upset the seal, it's only a matter of time before you waste it.

[Bradman123]

YEEEEEEEY haha...no hurry though i have time to save before it goes completely then...