another thread about the s13 factory amps and speakers

[Matlock-gtr]

alright guys.. i know there are a bunch of threads on this topic.. including a thread on the faqs page.. but there are sooo many threads and soo many different responses.. im not quite sure who's advice and recomendations are more credible... so here it goes...

i have a '93 240sx hatchback le with the active speaker system

the car has a jvc head unit 50x4 watts but i see very little improvement in sound quality.. the back speakers sound pretty insignificant.. and the fronts seem to be producing most of the sound (bass etc.) but the fronts sound terrible and seem to be clipping when the volume reaches higher levels...

im keeping my sound system extremely simple.. but still want to improve it... anyways... im going to replace all the stock speakers with higher quality aftermarket plated 4x6's...

so here are my questions:

1) is it true that the active speaker system has factory amps that limit the power distribution from the head unit to the speakers?

2) where are the two amps located and which amp powers rear and which powers front?

3) is it as simple as simple cutting the wires.. removing the amps... splicing the appropriate front/rear negative/positive input/output wires, and hooking them up to the appropriate speakers?

4) do most of you who have bypassed and removed the factory amps just run strictly on head unit power? sounds better?

thanks guys.. not looking to be flamed.. and not trying to beat the topic to death.. just looking for some constructive advice

[Yoshi]

the 2 minute reply :P heh:

1) your mostly right, and for your purposes, you'd want to bypass completely.

2) I forget about how the rears work, but the fronts have the amps built into the speaker "box". You'll know what i mean when you see it. Just pry it off with a flathead.

3) close. You'll want to get a wiring schematic and wire your new speakers through that for deck power, I'd recommend staying away from deck power tho (see 4)

4) deck power is crappy. I never ever use deck power. Dedicated amp whenever possible.

[Matlock-gtr]

thanks for the quick reply yoshi! yeah i guess i could go for an external amp powered setup.. but for now i think anything will sound better than what i have :p

does anybody have any help on the rear speaker amps?

oh and yoshi does the wire explanation look right?

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=10025

[s13silady]

i just left the factory amps in the car(ill take them out on the next sunny day, just too lazy...)

what i did is when i replaced the stock speakers i ran them through another 200watt amp seperate from the stock amps... fairly simple and you could totally notice the difference in sound...

[projectRDM]

Rear speaker amp is underneath the left rear speaker, runs both. Fronts are in the doors behind the speaker, as stated.

I would consider going up in size if you're looking for better sound, a 4x6 is small and cannot produce accurate bass for one thing, you're also limited on power handling. A 5x7 will fit easily in the front with just a little trimming, that will increase your sound a little and then you can use something smaller out back for rear fill, honestly though you'll find that running just the front speakers will sound better because you're not limited to output, unless you find an amp that has less power on the rear channels or you turn the gains way down for the rear. The 240 is a small car and doesn't need a lot of speakers, my 98 and both my old S14s all had front speakers only, driven by a good amount of power, and sounded great. You don't miss the rear fill since it's so far behind you, and like in the fastback, is aimed straight up at the quarter windows anyway.

[andrave]

If I were you, I wouldn't go with the added hassle, complexity, and weight of an external amplifier. If you aren't an audiphile and a normal cd player +4 setup makes you happy then stick with that. However, when dealing with the shitty factory speaker wires and active speaker system, I'd just buy a spool of 14 or 16 gauge speaker wire and by pass the factory speaker harness completely. No more questions about polarity or wiring codes or active speakers.

[Yoshi]

thanks for the quick reply yoshi! yeah i guess i could go for an external amp powered setup.. but for now i think anything will sound better than what i have :p

does anybody have any help on the rear speaker amps?

oh and yoshi does the wire explanation look right?

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=10025

on the schematic, I'd have to consult my FSM to be positive, but being that it's archived and was posted by DSC (a guy well known to be versed in 240 lore), I see no reason not to follow it verbatim.

One other pointer, make sure you know what you want long term. Anyone can install a stereo system and all the goodies. It's REALLY easy. What's not easy, is doing a quality job. A good install with factory quality workmanship is an all day process, and required tearing apart about 80% of the car's interior; seats, carpet, panels, wiring, looming, soldering (butt connectors suck ass), etc. Do your install once, and do it well.

OH, and know what your goal are too. Is it a track car? Drag? If weight is a big issue, then you should be running deck power to the doors and that's it like andrave was sayin. If it's a street car or weekend racer, make sure you get a deck that has sub pre-amp outs for expandability, and use external amps wherever you can. Quality power makes all the difference in the world.

Hope that helps.

[Matlock-gtr]

Rear speaker amp is underneath the left rear speaker, runs both. Fronts are in the doors behind the speaker, as stated.

I would consider going up in size if you're looking for better sound, a 4x6 is small and cannot produce accurate bass for one thing, you're also limited on power handling. A 5x7 will fit easily in the front with just a little trimming, that will increase your sound a little and then you can use something smaller out back for rear fill, honestly though you'll find that running just the front speakers will sound better because you're not limited to output, unless you find an amp that has less power on the rear channels or you turn the gains way down for the rear. The 240 is a small car and doesn't need a lot of speakers, my 98 and both my old S14s all had front speakers only, driven by a good amount of power, and sounded great. You don't miss the rear fill since it's so far behind you, and like in the fastback, is aimed straight up at the quarter windows anyway.


what would be the easiest way to get access to the rear amp? i kno space is tight unerneath those rear speakers because i replaced them with a temporary setup already.. yeah i have some 5x7's from my previous car which i think i'll try to fit into the front.. as for the back i think im putting in some infinity 4652 cf's.. i dunno how good they would be but i figure the sound quality of them would be more than good enough... i was also considering putting in infinity 6402cf's in the front.. but i guess throwing in some 5x7's could give me a little more bass response than a 4x6... im not really serious about putting a complete sound system in my car... its something i did in my previous car.. so im just looking for a simple and clean sounding system which will have good all around sound... i've got a kd-sh55 head unit which came with the car.. my previous deck was a panasonic cq-df602u.. and i could see them performing similarly... i dunno... im planning to spend a day on it this weekend.. so hopefully all turns out well.. thanks for all your help.. i'll let u guys know how it goes.. and any more input would be appreciated! :bigok:

[Matlock-gtr]

ok guys.. here it goes.. so i took my door apart.. took apart the front speaker assmeblies.. im making some custom mounts for 5x7"s or 6.5"s i havent made up my mind.. i took about the rears and im thinking of either just swapping with 4x6's or even up to 5x7's if i can get them to fit on those big metal mounting plate things... anyways.. here is my problem.. i looked at the wiring explaination from DSC.. but they dont match up colors wise.. so here are the pix..

left front:
http://members.shaw.ca/mattbho/matt/leftfront.jpg
so which two wires are the positive and negative input?
blue/white and blue/yellow but which is + and which is -

right front:
http://members.shaw.ca/mattbho/matt/rightfront.jpg
same question... which one is the positive and negative input?
brown/white and brown but which is + and which is -

rear amp:
http://members.shaw.ca/mattbho/matt/rearamp.jpg
the rear also includes the input and outputs
i know the blue/white and blue/yellow and the brown/white and brown are the output for both the rear speakers.
which ones are the positive and negative input for the left and right?

i kno that the light blue, black and light green wires found on each harness are for the factory amps from the factory service manual.. but the fsm doesnt indentify which are the positive or negative inputs

help?!

[Matlock-gtr]

yoshi? anybody?! haha help! driving a car around with a gutted stereo

[93DRIFT]

yeah i had to go through all this stuff too when i put in my deck. so i have a 93 le coupe so im just going to assume everything is the same, the pics you gave seem to look right, so anyways
front left
blue/yellow +
blue/white -

front right
brown/white +
brown -

now for the rear amp you need to cut the red, green,violet and pink wires, no others

rear left
red +
green -

rear right
violet +
pink -

yeah you gotta get rid of those amps for sure. even after a while of using them inline w/ your head unit they blow really easily and sound like shat. but see if that works and let me know, peace

[Matlock-gtr]

yeah thanks a lot man.. i dunno if the us cars have different wire colors.. but the archived file was completely different.. i checked a canadian fsm and the colors were right.. but they didnt indicate which was + and -

now are you sure about the front speakers +\-?
i've got a site that says its the opposite

front rights:
brown is +
brown/white is -

front lefts:
blue/white is +
blue/yellow is -

http://www.bagotronix.com/nissan_240sx_stereo.pdf

[projectRDM]

Matlock, you're correct. The above post is reversed in polarity, but either way is fine, as long as both speakers are reversed you won't see any side effects, because they don't cancel each other out.

[kazuo]

I still don't understand why people can't figure this out from the FAQ post. I don't mean to be a dick or anything, but its right there... I figured it out just from that posting, and took me 2 mins to do. It's not rocket science, folks.

Anyways, I wouldn't bother replacing the factory speaker wire, cus it aint gonna make much of a difference unless you're running an external amp and really good speakers (trust me on this).

You also want to just ditch the 4x6's entirely and make a mount to fit 6 1/2 inch speakers in the doors. Search under my name or just search for it, myself and others have posted threads on how to do it.

6 1/2 > 4x6

:D

[HyperTek]

offtopic- I soo wish my headunit has aux inputs so i could just plug my ipod straight up...

[93DRIFT]

yeah thats what i used and everything works fine, it very well could be reverse polarity, but hook it up and see how it sounds...if it sounds like crap, change it up.........hope that you got it all working

[Matlock-gtr]

spent two evenings on it this weekend... after assembling my speakers (infinity 6.52i 6.5" and infinity 6402cf 4"x6") and a piece of 1/8th inch aluminum.. removed and bypassed the amps.. and made custom mounts for the install in the front...

http://members.shaw.ca/mattbho/matt/mounts-speakers.jpg
the original mounts... with the custom ones i made.. and my speakers

http://members.shaw.ca/mattbho/matt/frontleft-final.jpghttp://members.shaw.ca/mattbho/matt/frontright-final.jpg
the final product for my front speakers... vibration free and weather protected in the back

http://members.shaw.ca/mattbho/matt/rearleft-final.jpghttp://members.shaw.ca/mattbho/matt/rearright-final.jpg
the final product for my rear speakers... easier than the fronts but still sound and look great

anyways thanks for all the help clearing up the wiring confusion.. the sound of these speakers is really impressive... sound quality, clarity and bass response far exceeded my expectations.. definately would recommend this setup to anybody looking for awesome sound without a sub

[projectRDM]

Very nice work. I like when people actually take the time to build a nice adapter. Very clean.

[kazuo]

A guy I know made one out of MDF for me with a dremel in like ten minutes.

Looks just as good. :P

Are those KAPPA series? They don't look like reference series.. I have KAPPA PERFECT and they have NO low end.. still need a sub.

The mids are decent and the highs are really good tho :P

[axiomatik]

Does anyone know if the early s13's have the rear amps (I have an '89 coupe)? My FSM doesn't show any amp for the rear, and I have just two wires coming from the harness that hook up to the speakers. However, every thread I have read mentions a rear amp for for both s13 and s14. Here's a pic of the wiring diagram:

http://www.stanford.edu/~brindley/FSM%20002m.jpg

[Matlock-gtr]

made one FOR you?? come on.. thats not as fun as doing it yourself!! ;p jk... but neways nope they're reference 6.52i in the front.. i read the reviews before i bought them and one guy said it didnt have much bass.. but when i put it all in and i spent some time adjusting the frequencies, widths and levels of the bass, lows, mids and highs on my deck.. they sounded really great.. it honestly sounded like i had a sub in my car.. nothing like full out pounding of a sub (from experience of my last car with a full JL system) but sounded reallly good.. was pretty impressed... and thanks for the compliments R240NA... im quite happy with how the front install turned out myself :p

[projectRDM]

[QUOTE=nbrindley]Does anyone know if the early s13's have the rear amps (I have an '89 coupe)? My FSM doesn't show any amp for the rear, and I have just two wires coming from the harness that hook up to the speakers. However, every thread I have read mentions a rear amp for for both s13 and s14. [QUOTE]

Amplified system was an option on S13s. Is there an round metal object bolted underneath your rear deck?

Better yet, do your speaker grilles say 'active speaker'? If not, then no amp.

[axiomatik]

Yeah, sorry I forgot to mention that, but I do have the 'active speaker' system, at least that's what the speaker grills say, but I don't see anything under my rear deck. My speakers were installed by a shop, so it is possible that they removed it, but I find it hard to believe that they would know/bother. Also, the wiring diagram doesn't show any amp for the rear, but I thought it was odd that I haven't come across anything that suggests some s13s with active speaker don't have a rear amp.

[kazuo]

Yeah, sorry I forgot to mention that, but I do have the 'active speaker' system, at least that's what the speaker grills say, but I don't see anything under my rear deck. My speakers were installed by a shop, so it is possible that they removed it, but I find it hard to believe that they would know/bother. Also, the wiring diagram doesn't show any amp for the rear, but I thought it was odd that I haven't come across anything that suggests some s13s with active speaker don't have a rear amp.

They have to remove the stock amps, otherwise the speakers won't work.

Unless they ran new speaker wires.

Are there connectors for the speakers? If so what do they look like/what color are they?

[axiomatik]

The rear speakers are wired just like the wiring diagram above, passenger side: one pink, one blue, driver side: one red, one green. I can't find any sign of other wires that would have hooked up to an amp. There isn't any sort of plug on the speaker wire, just the two wires come out of the harness and are twisted to the leads of the speakers. From what I read, it seemed like the speakers could work if the head unit had a signal for turning on an amp, which I think mine does, though I need to check.

[SpdElemts]

Does anyone know if the 93 240sx base fastback have the active speaker system?

[projectRDM]

Does anyone know if the 93 240sx base fastback have the active speaker system?

Does the radio or front speaker grilles say 'active'?

Please use a little intelligence next time.

[SpdElemts]

sorry.....that i never noticed any other 240s with the "active" grills....oh yea and i dont have the factory radio.