Chassis stiffening ideas and theories etc..

[HyperTek]

Ok so I was browsing Club4ag (http://forums.club4ag.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=86271) and there was a discussion regarding rivoting chassis areas as opposed to spot welding. But didnt seem like anyone in that thread had much insight or experence in that field. ANyone here got any info? as far as if it thought this might be a alternative to some since not everyone has access to get thier car spot welded. Not saying to go too extream as far as (not safe for daily driver) but just thought some areas might not be such a bad idea.

pics from http://goma86-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/my86/sonota3/hokyou/8.jpg
http://goma86-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/my86/sonota3/hokyou/7.jpg
http://goma86-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/my86/sonota3/hokyou/12.jpg

Foam- Now I had this idea, its been a while since I looked at it, but i was thinking that if this support beam on our cars is hallow, could it benefit from being filled with foam?
http://goma86-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/my86/sonota3/hokyou/1.jpghttp://

[sideviewcivic]

hollow points allow flex. eliminating hollow points stiffens chassis at the cost of less streetability. riveting allows more flex than seam -welding. however stitch-welding makes a chassis stiff and allow more flex then complete seam-welding. better off putting a cage in the car with stitch welding at specific points on the car. namely around the shock towers.

[NZO]

Filling the car with foam causes you to become horribly dead in an accident.

[tastyratz]

depends how much and where you fill. I was thinking im gonna fill my frame rails and the point behind the fenders on my car. riveting seems like something that would be really easy for anyone to do all you need is a drill and a rivet gun, I like that idea... btw does anyone have any pictures of our cars if they stich/seam welded/ riveted them?

[l33tmonkeyman]

why would putting foam in the vehicle to fill up hallow points cause u to be dead in an accident?

[tastyratz]

because your negating crumple zones with your car by doing so...

[crioten]

if you fill the passenger area with it (under the driver and pass seats) it shouldnt matter....

if something hits you hard enough, you dont want those areas to crumple anyway lol

[nightwalker]

welding causes hot points and the metal around the area to distort. Be careful with it. Riveting doesn't do the same.

I would just go for the cage and some riveting on the shock towers. S-chassis cars have weak shock towers.

[HyperTek]

S13 Hatch - I forgot where I got these pictures from, but somebody was doing it..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/streetphase/fa5c2e78.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/streetphase/fa5c2ed7.jpg

[kandyflip445]

What about foam in the frame rails?

[tastyratz]

bless your soul hypertek thats exactly what i wanted to see.... pimp! kandy its pretty tough to get a picture of foam inside the rails but i think you get the idea of it. all you have to do is seal all exit holes and mix that stuff and pump it in. the thing about foam is you gotta be FAST as it will start to expand in like 30 seconds after mixing or something like that!!! scc did an article on filling a 300zx chassis but they used something weak like 2lb cf foam. the tensil strength of that is just WEAK. THIS http://www.sculpt.com/catalog_98/CastingMaterials/URETHANES/smooth-on/foamit5.htm is the stuff you wanna use. Ive done plenty of research on what should be acceptable and the best prices and this appeared to me to be the best stuff you could really use for the job. 5lb foam is alot stronger and will actually make a difference. You can get a heavier denser harder foam such as 10 or 15lbs but then you have to start realizing the weight tradeoff. 2lb is only good enough to be audio grade...

[kandyflip445]

I was asking if anyone has done it to the frame rails yet and could share some insight...:p

[sr240mike]

Here's a pretty technical article. http://www.twinturbo.net/net/viewmsg.aspx?forum=technical&msg_id=841079 I have also heard good things about ITW FOAMSEAL from the 300zx crowd.

[KA24DESOneThree]

You want stiff and streetable? Get a roll cage (or just a roll bar) and supplement it with Okuyama one-piece strut braces front and rear, (possibly with Cusco three-point substituted for the rear Okuyama piece) Nams fender braces, a Nismo Power Brace, Do-Luck side under bars (although their point is questionable) and SPL rear subframe braces.

Let's face it: doing this stuff (the stuff mentioned previously in this thread) in a daily is a stretch. Rivets would pop, welds would crack, girlfriends would dump. We don't drive on a racetrack all the time.

[blu808]

umm. Who started this whole pop riveting thing anyways? It doesnt do anything... Pop rivets will just get loose over time and make a shit load of ratteling. Foam is good, and seam welding is good.

Also gusseting chassis, and cages.

Heres some examples of my car.

http://www.akarimotorsports.com/images/IMG_0912.JPG

See the full seam welding (spots) around the wheel. Also this part of the chassis is gusseted where the s14 is the weakest.

http://www.akarimotorsports.com/images/IMG_0911.JPG

[blu808]

Partial tube frame.

http://www.akarimotorsports.com/images/IMG_1683.JPG

Fuel cell bracing supports.

http://www.akarimotorsports.com/images/IMG_1688.JPG

[sideviewcivic]

blu808-the fender bracing you have on the car...is that plate steel that is seamed to the open spaces in the chassis design... also noed that you cutout thespare tire section of the trunk...how low do you run the fuel cell then the previous OE tank...other then seam-welding the shock towers, what else is seamed with-in the car??? near the transmission tunnel behind the driver seat??

[blu808]

The gusseting is 1/8th'' steel. It is boxed around the front frame rails at parts, and in other areas. The trunk is cut out, and the fuel cell cupport/cage is made of 1.25''x0.0825 tubing. I have used this setup in onther cars and it stiffens the crap out of the car. Also the front tube frame is fully functional, and is still legal for formula d and d1. (Hence why i did not do other tubes) It is also plated then welded to the chassis. The entire car is seam welded together using 1/4'' spot welds wherever sheet metal is joined together.

Yes that took me awhile.

[Shin_Kudo]

On the foam subject, Lorin from Driftxtreem did the rails under the door sills on his 180SX, it made a major difference in chassis rigidity and flex.

[sac]

hey luke. For some reason i cant see your pics. Where are ya talking about on the chassis?

[JVD]

hey luke. For some reason i cant see your pics. Where are ya talking about on the chassis?
Reason = this post is from 2004.

LOL.

[Dousan_PG]

because thread and posts are from 2004

[sac]

oops... damn cell phone..

[S14DB]

oops... damn cell phone..

Why you are not aloud to be on the cell phone while driving trains...