Help! Timing Is Way Off

[ticklemeermuel]

Hey all I’ve been searching for the past week on this damn timing problem I have. Haven’t found a real answer so here it goes… I’m a noo b here but have been lurking the boards for a while. I have an 89 240sx (ka-t t3 snail...all that good stuff). I noticed my car pinging a while back and tried various things, thought it was bad gas, injector cleaner… finally went to a mechanic and said it was timing. So I bought a timing gun and checked it out. Turned out my timing is set at–5 degrees. How the f**k did that happen :bash: !?!?!?! I tried advancing it and the farthest I can get it is about 10 deg and that’s where it stops. The weird thing is that when I bought the car it wasn’t pinging and has gradually gotten worse. At this point I’m currently running at about 0 deg…and I know that cant be good for the car. it runs ok but it pings really bad…sounds like a spray can. I really need to get this taken care ASAP so someone please help! Can my timing automatically throw itself off? Any input would be great… I'm located in socal so anyone wants to peep it out or has any...ANY input please let me know.

-Erm
email: [email protected]
AIM: ticklemeermuel

[S13Dreamin]

Yea, that is actually really bad for the engine. Anyways, when was the last time the chain was replaced? The tensioner? Over long periods of time, the chain can stretch and sometimes even jump a tooth, this is probably the case if you havent been swapping cams (in which case you probably messed up the tooth count).

Josh

[Pacman]

Here's what I would do:
1. Get the motor to TDC in cylinder #1
2. Take the distributor out
3. Re-install the distributor with the rotor inbetween points 1 and 4 in the cap
4. Tighten the distributor in the middle of the hole
5. Get timed again.

If that doesn't help, then you might need to replace the chain as stated above. Trying the distributor is easier to start with than the chain.

[ticklemeermuel]

hey guys thanks for the fast reply really appreciate it. well here's a second opinion I got from nico and hopefully it works.

"your dist is driven by the oil pump shaft off the crankshaft. that means it cant be your timing chain. it also means that your oil pump shaft could be off a toothe. i could tell you in a million words how to retime the oil pump. it only takes like 30 min if you get it right the first time. however, most folks dont get it right the first time. even with a million words i think you would still have trouble with it. reccomendation...
1)if you feel like trying to do the job buy a fsm and just do it. its not hard you just unbolt the oil pump and stick the shaft up in there the way the fsm say to. then you pop the dist back in and set the timing."


It seems like it would work....the mechanic I took it to said it had to be timing or gas not the chain. His reasoning was that the pinging (clanking noise) didnt happen on idle, only when I get on the gas. It's especially loud at around 2500 rpm and up. Going to try retiming the oil pump...let you guys know how it goes. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated...feel free to email or IM me...thanks guys!

-Erm
[email protected]
AIM: ticklemeermuel

[Pacman]

Here's my good ol' paint ability. The rectangle in the middle is the rotor. It should be in the middle of cylinder 1 and 4 like in the pic. Hope that helps.

http://www.imagestation.com/mypictures/inbox/view.html?album_id=3599910093&id=4135870901&url=http%3A//www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid144/p857b6ea427ee8116cc65effa4a2c4793/f68461b5.jpg&caption=Dist.

[ticklemeermuel]

oh man what a pain the a$$. Pacman I tried your suggestion followed everything and still no luck....it started but idled very rough and ended up being more retarded. the dist setup you gave me is diff from the chiltons manual which clockwise goes 1-2-4-3 and yours goes 1-2-3-4? Howd you get it to idle rigt, and did you time it like that? My firing order as well is 1-3-4-2. Man sooooo frustrating...this s**t is driving me :loco: let me know if you have anymore suggestions...or anyone out there

[aznpoopy]

when you say you can get it to 10 degrees and it just stops, do you mean you can't turn the dist anymore b/c its physically not possible? if that's the case it's just a simple matter of taking out the dist and putting it back in a tooth or two advanced.

btw if u took it out and put it in and it ended up being more retarded, you need to reinstall it turned the other way.

[ticklemeermuel]

yeah the distributor stops physically can't turn it anymore. As far as taking the distributor out I tried that and putting it in a tooth advanced but it wont let me. For some reason it will only go in the same way...or maybe (probably) doing it wrong. Thats one reason why someone suggested "retiming the oil pump" shaft by taking it out and putting it in a tooth or two advanced. So with the distributor taking it out and putting it back in advanced am I not doing this the right way...or am I missing a step?

[aznpoopy]

its a de, right? i had the same problem b/c when i removed the front timing cover i forgot to mark the dist. luckily i got the car running (roughly - and died) on the 3rd try. but, i couldn't get it further then 5 degrees b/c the dist was in the improper position. i think i advanced it two teeth.

the dist is not going to want to go in... the teeth are curved or soemthing so when it slides in, it turns a bit. if u fudge with it a bit it should slide in eventually. try inserting it with a turning motion.

[Pacman]

I'll check my cap when theres light outside. I may have drawn it up wrong, but I know what I did to fix it since I had a similar thing.

[andrave]

if its an 89 its an E, the oil pump is driven off the chain in the E (its driven by eccentric sandwich gears in the de directly off the crank).
But the solution is so simple, just pull the dist. and advance a tooth.