KA-T needs more POWAH!

[spooled240]

Looking to get more power out of my setup, but I'm not sure what to do next. Some of my options are below.

1997 ka24de
stock rods
wiseco 9:1 forged pistons
ARP headstuds
OEM head gasket
stock cams
stock intake manifold
JWT ECU
z32 maf
555cc nismo injectors
revhard copy cast manifold
3" HKS sport exhaust
high-flow cat
35mm tial wastegate recirculated
FMIC
57 trim t3/t4 .63 a/r
12 psi

dyno'd at 268whp/283tq a long time ago.

I've always tried to keep this car somewhat quiet and streetable avoiding catless exhausts and screamer pipes. The car has pretty good response and pulls hard, but it feels like the power drops off quick after 6000 rpms. I know the turbo manifold, stock s14 cams and intake manifold are all to blame.

If you could only do one of these options, what would you do?
-bigger injectors, AEM v.1 with more boost (JWT is running pretty rich on boost AFR's are in the 10's)
-bigger cams (will it make a difference on this Flintstone-tech cast manifold?)
-Change cast manifold for ram horn tubular
-___________?

[Rb26kouki]

Looking to get more power out of my setup, but I'm not sure what to do next. Some of my options are below.

1997 ka24de
stock rods
wiseco 9:1 forged pistons
ARP headstuds
OEM head gasket
stock cams
stock intake manifold
JWT ECU
z32 maf
555cc nismo injectors
revhard copy cast manifold
3" HKS sport exhaust
high-flow cat
35mm tial wastegate recirculated
FMIC
57 trim t3/t4 .63 a/r
12 psi

dyno'd at 268whp/283tq a long time ago.

I've always tried to keep this car somewhat quiet and streetable avoiding catless exhausts and screamer pipes. The car has pretty good response and pulls hard, but it feels like the power drops off quick after 6000 rpms. I know the turbo manifold, stock s14 cams and intake manifold are all to blame.

If you could only do one of these options, what would you do?
-bigger injectors, AEM v.1 with more boost (JWT is running pretty rich on boost AFR's are in the 10's)
-bigger cams (will it make a difference on this Flintstone-tech cast manifold?)
-Change cast manifold for ram horn tubular
-___________?




Jwt S1 cams & take it back to JWT for a fine tune you’ll be just over 300hp

[brndck]

get the new Tomei cast KA-t manifold, get a more precise tune, switch to a more efficient turbo, def get JWT cams.

[KAT-PWR]

cams is your problem

[spooled240]

Thanks for the responses guys. Do you think the increased duration will be of any benefit with my turbo manifold? This is what it looks like: (Kind of like a log-style but not as bad..it's more like a short-runner header)
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii33/night_krawler/119-1.jpg

[KAT-PWR]

that is a log manifold and flows just as bad. Cams will allow a little more flow and allow you to carry the power to redline instead of falling off hard after 5.5kish. More usable power, and more linear power band. Your car wont feel like it has "nothing left" anymore with more revs. Cams will help regardless of the exhaust manifold design (within reason)

[NiSilS14]

264s or bigger will definitely help wake up the engine. I had BC 264s on a ka-t and currently a na/ka and it pulls through a lot better to redline. A decent flowing manifold is also going to help with top end power as well. So i'd look into doing those two items first before going on any further with something else.

[spooled240]

I heard more cam duration can be detrimental on engines using manifolds that are prone to exhaust pulse interference like log manifolds, but I suppose going to 256-270* won't be that crazy of a jump. Plus, the s14 cams just suck for anything other than towing lol.

I'm waiting for the Tomei cams to come in. I'll update this thread when those are in.

[EnnEssEnnKAT]

They had those cams over on the ka-t forums that were on a group buy and I've been reading they were well worth it. I'd check into whatever specs. those were and get something like that:
http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57359

[turbo2nr]

well how much powa do you want? and where do you want your power band to be?

alot of options:

keep same setup add aem + more boost and you can get more power but you will be pushing that outdated turbo.

change turbo+ manifold and get something more efficent : tomi + 3071 internal wastegate or recirculated waste gate, keep same FMU.

or my choice:
Turbo+mani + aem.

As far as cams it will shift your power band and give you more usable power towards redline. I have stock cams but with how efficient my setup is i keep making power up to 7k on stock 232. So setup efficiency and tuning is key. Id address those first then fine tune with cam_gears.

[KAT-PWR]

They had those cams over on the ka-t forums that were on a group buy and I've been reading they were well worth it. I'd check into whatever specs. those were and get something like that:
http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57359

Turboholic, these are the cams i run. They are just BC 264s. Also no longer available. When i got mine like 4 years ago he had 3 sets left, good cams.
My old dyno with cams
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/waxball88/A59276DF-672E-473B-9B45-2164CAACC349_zps4ersh5cs.jpg

VS. what you see with stock cams is the power usually falls off pretty hard after 5.5k

[spooled240]

Looks like I missed the train on those :/

well how much powa do you want? and where do you want your power band to be?

alot of options:

keep same setup add aem + more boost and you can get more power but you will be pushing that outdated turbo.

change turbo+ manifold and get something more efficent : tomi + 3071 internal wastegate or recirculated waste gate, keep same FMU.

or my choice:
Turbo+mani + aem.

As far as cams it will shift your power band and give you more usable power towards redline. I have stock cams but with how efficient my setup is i keep making power up to 7k on stock 232. So setup efficiency and tuning is key. Id address those first then fine tune with cam_gears.

I don't want or need anything crazy..350whp with a broad, usable powerband is good enough for me.

The turbo is actually not too bad..I get full boost at around 3200, sometimes 3000 in 5th. The noticeable power drop-off after 6k is what is kinda annoying and if I can fix that with some cams and squeeze out a few more ponies with the standalone(forgot to mention I already have an AEM v.1 laying around) then I'll probably do that.

[PoorMans180SX]

Approaching 350wtq and the rods become questionable.
Past 450wtq and those headstuds become questionable.

I'd say plop a set of cams in and be happy, otherwise you're looking at revamping quite a few things.

Kelford makes great cams btw.
https://www.kelfordcams.com/global/camshafts/nissan/ka24de-det

I'd never recommend AEM V1 to anybody, as it's probably less capable than your stock ECU with a Nismotronics board.

[hanzbrady]

Turboholic, these are the cams i run. They are just BC 264s. Also no longer available. When i got mine like 4 years ago he had 3 sets left, good cams.
My old dyno with cams
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/waxball88/A59276DF-672E-473B-9B45-2164CAACC349_zps4ersh5cs.jpg

VS. what you see with stock cams is the power usually falls off pretty hard after 5.5k

I have RWD 264's available, 1 on my shelves and BC shows them in stock if anyone is interested PM me!

[spooled240]

Approaching 350wtq and the rods become questionable.
Past 450wtq and those headstuds become questionable.

I'd say plop a set of cams in and be happy, otherwise you're looking at revamping quite a few things.

Kelford makes great cams btw.
https://www.kelfordcams.com/global/camshafts/nissan/ka24de-det

I'd never recommend AEM V1 to anybody, as it's probably less capable than your stock ECU with a Nismotronics board.

questionable, but they should hold haha

I got the AEM for cheap, but yeah I understand it's basically a customizable OEM ecu with support for coilpacks and a map sensor. I've heard and it seems like the JWT ecu's are really conservative as far as timing and AFR's go so I'm thinking I can get it more dialed in with the AEM for the time being.

I recently kind of started drag racing for shits and giggles and the drag racer mentality has been taking over...MORE POWAHHHHH!!

[KAT-PWR]

Approaching 350wtq and the rods become questionable.
Past 450wtq and those headstuds become questionable.

I'd say plop a set of cams in and be happy, otherwise you're looking at revamping quite a few things.

Kelford makes great cams btw.
https://www.kelfordcams.com/global/camshafts/nissan/ka24de-det

I'd never recommend AEM V1 to anybody, as it's probably less capable than your stock ECU with a Nismotronics board.

From the banter Martin and I have had over the years along with my own research closer to 400 wtq is the questionable point (not trying to argue, just fwiw) My friend Cory who i think still holds the stock block record seemed to agree (nissanfanatic)
I think my car has been making at least 350wtq for a couple years, stock rods with ARP bolts. I am also 8.6:1 compression though

My 50 trim with 264 cams is still one of my favorite set ups of all time. Immediate spool, good power, pulls all the way to redline. Easily the most effective set up for just about anything short of hunting big boy cars, or dyno numbers.
I'm building another car with that set up.

[gtrpryde]

Tomei or Kelford cams would be my choice, and first option out of your 3. Supporting mods should knock out the biggest restrictions first.

Next would be injectors/AEM or whatever EMS you choose

Lastly the manifold. My Evo 8 had a cast factory manifold similar to the revhard with a very small turbine housing and it still made 330whp at 21 psi. The manifolds were still used up to 450whp reliably, so I wouldn't upgrade it til you are ready for a bigger turbo anyway.

[S-Verteen]

Some guys run an afc to dial in afrs for noticeable gains in hp. I believe the cams will wake up your mill on the low end increase the power band.

[KAT-PWR]

Tomei or Kelford cams would be my choice, and first option out of your 3. Supporting mods should knock out the biggest restrictions first.

Next would be injectors/AEM or whatever EMS you choose

Lastly the manifold. My Evo 8 had a cast factory manifold similar to the revhard with a very small turbine housing and it still made 330whp at 21 psi. The manifolds were still used up to 450whp reliably, so I wouldn't upgrade it til you are ready for a bigger turbo anyway.
They're also twin scroll and most definitely better engineered than standard log

[anti tyler]

Ah the good ol' days of drag racing those pesky 5.0 mustangs.

Get yourself one of those CXracing manifold and down pipes and have it coated.

Honestly I'm kind of surprised your power output is so low. I think the very first KAt I built was at 277.12/277.13 @ 7PSI

Either way you're heading in the right direction

[dreaMervaj]

I love the KA-T love on this thread. Reminds me of when ka-t.org was active...

I vote cams!

[KAT-PWR]

Ah the good ol' days of drag racing those pesky 5.0 mustangs.

Get yourself one of those CXracing manifold and down pipes and have it coated.

Honestly I'm kind of surprised your power output is so low. I think the very first KAt I built was at 277.12/277.13 @ 7PSI

Either way you're heading in the right direction

I wouldn't waste money on coating a CX manifold. It will break 100% fact. Then you'll be grinding off the coating to weld it. I would coat the downpipe though.

[spooled240]

Thanks for the responses, fellas. I have the Tomei cams on order, but they won't be here til Feb. I'm expecting those to help eliminate the Cummins diesel power band.

Any thoughts on going with Tomei's cast t2 manifold? I'm thinking of a quick-spooling GT2871R setup putting down 380-400whp. A T2 turbo and an internal gate I know is not ideal, but I'm thinking if CodyAce was able to squeeze 400whp out of his SR with the same turbo, internal gate and an extrude honed/swained OEM manifold it would be possible on the KA with the higher flowing Tomei unit and some cams. I would love to stick with a cast turbo manifold for durability and heat management purposes.

[anti tyler]

I wouldn't waste money on coating a CX manifold. It will break 100% fact. Then you'll be grinding off the coating to weld it. I would coat the downpipe though.

I mean I'm sure that's happened, but I never experienced it personally. I had more issues with the ram horn style.

Thanks for the responses, fellas. I have the Tomei cams on order, but they won't be here til Feb. I'm expecting those to help eliminate the Cummins diesel power band.

Any thoughts on going with Tomei's cast t2 manifold? I'm thinking of a quick-spooling GT2871R setup putting down 380-400whp. A T2 turbo and an internal gate I know is not ideal, but I'm thinking if CodyAce was able to squeeze 400whp out of his SR with the same turbo, internal gate and an extrude honed/swained OEM manifold it would be possible on the KA with the higher flowing Tomei unit and some cams. I would love to stick with a cast turbo manifold for durability and heat management purposes.


All I can say is I don't care for bottom mount manifolds, but from what I hear that's a good manifold. It's just that it's pretty pricey and T2...

[KAT-PWR]

I mean I'm sure that's happened, but I never experienced it personally. I had more issues with the ram horn style.




All I can say is I don't care for bottom mount manifolds, but from what I hear that's a good manifold. It's just that it's pretty pricey and T2...

We've had about 5 break locally. Two of the thicker gauge, 3 of the standard gauge, my old Gen1 also broke at the wastegate after like 2 years. Have also seen many others in my time moderating the KAT FB group, same spot. My gen 2 has broken twice, once in my ownership. CX uses a thinner metal on their wastegate ports, thats where all have broken. Same spot, every time, just a matter of time.
This manifold had a fat plate welded to the side, but they just welded the original outlet back on. This time we replaced it with a thicker gauge and ground the pedestal to give it a little extra support.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/waxball88/EF80EEC9-2CD1-405A-BBF2-6F62B7A13484_zps4ecr6jis.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/waxball88/D406CB5A-D8EF-4DE2-96DE-EB9779BF1327_zpshpiaimdr.jpg

[mewantkouki]

Cams, and ditch the high flow cat for some more pep. Those rods are a definite weak point in your setup though.

[spooled240]

So I finally got some parts added to the old KA turbo. Installed the Tomei poncams and an Xcessive ramhorn manifold with a downpipe that was for sale by another Zilvian. Very nice piece. The downpipe didn't fit for shit so that set me back a few weeks scratching my head, but after some cutting, adding a bend and some reclocking everything lined up nicely. I also decided to dump the wastegate pipe under the car instead of recirculating it.

The results?

Oh my god it's a whole new engine. The topend is MUCH MUCH better. Full boost hits around 3500 rpms and the engine just keeps pulling harder and harder even after 5500 rpms. It's almost like the engine wants to rev out to 7k and doesn't seem as I was forcing it like it did before. I definitely lost some of the snappy low-end torque below 2500 rpms, but it's not bad at all. The gains up top are clearly worth it. These cams are great.

Now that the hardware is done, I will be looking to work on fueling/engine management next.

Looking to either:
1)Reflash the JWT ecu for bigger injectors(740cc), the lower compression(9:1) and the Tomei cams. I believe this service is about $100?
2)Get the AEM v.1 EMS going with larger injectors, LS coil packs and a GM map sensor. Will have to get the car dyno-tuned of course. This route is much more expensive, but the car will be dialed in perfectly and will be faster.
3)Do #1 first and #2 later

Shooting for around 350whp on 91 octane. I heard 15psi is about as much as you want to run on a KA on 91 which should net me the 350 that I'm looking for, but I'm open to suggestions. There's an e85 station right by where I live, but I don't want to take away any practicality away from this car for 350whp.

Here are some pics. I have since added a heat shield, a turbo blanket and wrapped the downpipe to keep the heat away from the brake master.

I know this isn't going to win any engine bay contests lol
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1935/43724966660_24fe2a4ed0_z.jpghttps://farm2.staticflickr.com/1977/43724966930_f3dcb5340a_z.jpg
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1924/45642662411_8a6754a8ef_z.jpg
My babies
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1954/45642662551_d517574f74_z.jpg

[koukizhang]

beautiful. glad you're seeing improvements with the turbo setup.

[MiamiGrinch240]

Always love to see a fellow KA-T, not sure where you’re drawing the line financially, but AEM Infinity is worth every penny if you choose to go standalone. It’s also much smaller than the EMS. I had JWT & SAFCII on my first setup, car ran pig rich. I switched to EMS V2 then eventually to Infinity which is fantastic. If you can get your hands on a V1 or V2 EMS, AEM will give you 40% off list price on an Infinity as a trade-up. Just something to consider. Saw you mentioned E85, I run it on my KA-T, but you need the right setup for it.

[spooled240]

Always love to see a fellow KA-T, not sure where you’re drawing the line financially, but AEM Infinity is worth every penny if you choose to go standalone. It’s also much smaller than the EMS. I had JWT & SAFCII on my first setup, car ran pig rich. I switched to EMS V2 then eventually to Infinity which is fantastic. If you can get your hands on a V1 or V2 EMS, AEM will give you 40% off list price on an Infinity as a trade-up. Just something to consider. Saw you mentioned E85, I run it on my KA-T, but you need the right setup for it.

How much of a power increase going from the JWT to the standalone? My AFR's with the JWT ecu are in the high 10's to low 11's. I heard the timing map is really conservative which is where you lose out on the power and torque.

I would love to go with the new AEM, but I just don't want to spend that kind of cash right now. I was only supposed to do one mod and now I'm technically doing three(cams, manifold, fuel/ecu) lol

I called JWT and they charge $100 for the reflash and $250 for an on-site dyno tune to dial it all in. They are very close to me so I may just do that with some Nismo 740's.

[PoorMans180SX]

Looking to either:
1)Reflash the JWT ecu for bigger injectors(740cc), the lower compression(9:1) and the Tomei cams. I believe this service is about $100?
2)Get the AEM v.1 EMS going with larger injectors, LS coil packs and a GM map sensor. Will have to get the car dyno-tuned of course. This route is much more expensive, but the car will be dialed in perfectly and will be faster.
3)Do #1 first and #2 later


I say keep the JWT ECU or go to a system like AEM infinity, or preferably a Link G4+ ECU. A 64-pin SR ECU should plug in, you'll just need to move to a coil over plug igniton.

AEM V1 flat out sucks, and V2 is okay but tends to have a lot of problems with trigger issues and is generally slow in comparison with modern ECU's like Link, Haltech Elite, and Infiniti. My :2c:

[spooled240]

I say keep the JWT ECU or go to a system like AEM infinity, or preferably a Link G4+ ECU. A 64-pin SR ECU should plug in, you'll just need to move to a coil over plug igniton.

AEM V1 flat out sucks, and V2 is okay but tends to have a lot of problems with trigger issues and is generally slow in comparison with modern ECU's like Link, Haltech Elite, and Infiniti. My :2c:

Why do you say the AEM v1 sucks?

It seems like it's pretty much an OEM KA/SR ecu with more support for coil drivers and a map sensor. I know it's pretty basic especially compared to what's available nowadays, but I was under the impression that it would be more than enough for my goals.

If it sucks because it's unreliable and slow like an old computer from the 90's then I guess it is a problem lol

[MiamiGrinch240]

The biggest problem you will find with AEM V1 & V2 is support. They are both outdated & should anything become damaged on them, you’re screwed as there will not be replacement parts for them. On top of that, should you have a harness designed to plug into them, now you will have one more thing to replace. “Budget” & “Standalone” rarely belong in the same sentence.

[PoorMans180SX]

If it sucks because it's unreliable and slow like an old computer from the 90's then I guess it is a problem lol

You nailed it, haha. Serial cable communication takes ages, no live tuning, limited tuning flexibility, etc. It's just not something I would ever pay for. I would 100% run a Nismotronics board over V1, and probably V2. So that's another option for you.

Modern ECU's are awesome because the inputs and outputs can often be reconfigured, there's tons of compensation tables for everything you need to make the car super driveable and reliable, and you can tune them live because the processor is actually from this century hahah.

[CalebS13]

The biggest problem you will find with AEM V1 & V2 is support. They are both outdated & should anything become damaged on them, you’re screwed as there will not be replacement parts for them. On top of that, should you have a harness designed to plug into them, now you will have one more thing to replace. “Budget” & “Standalone” rarely belong in the same sentence.



Megasquirt PnP. not a bad option for “budget” standalone imo. planning on purchasing one for my KA-T soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk