Cadillac CTS-V brake upgrade

[Blue55]

I'm working on a 4 piston CTS-V brake upgrade on my S13. I'm swapping out the master cylinder for a Z32 one. Is there any way of getting the fitting out of the old master cylinder without destroying it? Seems like a ton of delicate work.

Here's an article on getting the old fitting out
http://importnut.net/the-definitive-300zx-brake-swap-master-cylinder-swap/

FYI - I'm doing a video on the swap and I'll post it later when it's done.

[rawgarage]

Who cares about destroying your old s13 BMC

[alwaysnboost]

True ^^^^^^^^^^^

[cespana]

Do it...nobody is buying S13 oem master cylinder.

[Blue55]

Who cares about destroying your old s13 BMC

It's not cost, it's just a pain in the butt is all!

[Blue55]

I just made a very detailed video of the install process:

gH20d_pfz6s

[ph1tnessjunk1e]

I saw that video a few days ago and it's awesome :) What do you do for the rear brakes though?

[Blue55]

I saw that video a few days ago and it's awesome :) What do you do for the rear brakes though?

I'm going to do the z32 rear brakes but that's a whole separate project.

[bjreynolds202]

How is the braking with the cts v up front and stock rears? Saw the video a few days ago, nice to see you on here too!

[Blue55]

How is the braking with the cts v up front and stock rears? Saw the video a few days ago, nice to see you on here too!

The car has been sitting on jackstands for too long since I've been traveling. I had a leaking hard line into the master cylinder so hopefully I've fixed that now.

My plan with any luck is to get to a track day this weekend and properly test it out. There will definitely be a video!

[crzsteveo]

Mine is 100% front brake bias with stock rears... which is great because my rears are almost seized (hypothetically) i would like to keep my stock rears, and some how hydraulic pressurized them so I can utilize my stock ebrake while doing a dual caliper bracket with wilwoods calipers to help bias with proportional valve....

[Blue55]

I would like to keep my stock rears, and some how hydraulic pressurized them so I can utilize my stock ebrake while doing a dual caliper bracket with wilwoods calipers to help bias with proportional valve....

I may add a proportioning valve after I test it at the track this weekend.

Here's the second part of the video
eTiXeA2158Y

[mad-ass]

you installed left and right side backwords, unless you bought two left sides. other wise you wouldn't have had to swap the brake line/bleeders over.

good video though.

[Blue55]

you installed left and right side backwords, unless you bought two left sides. other wise you wouldn't have had to swap the brake line/bleeders over.

good video though.

They were not installed backwards. The brake line is at the top of the caliper, not the side.

[onehundredoctane]

Aren't those calipers heavy?

Not sure why people are paying top dollar for those when Wilwood 4 piston calipers are lighter, and cheaper. . . ? Is unsprung weight still not a thing?

[Agamemnon]

They were not installed backwards. The brake line is at the top of the caliper, not the side.
He means that the bleeder screw faces upward and the cross over tube is on the bottom of the caliper. You either got 2 of the same side or installed them on the wrong side.
http://cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/bpadchange/1.jpg

[bjreynolds202]

Aren't those calipers heavy?

Not sure why people are paying top dollar for those when Wilwood 4 piston calipers are lighter, and cheaper. . . ? Is unsprung weight still not a thing?

Do you have the weights or weight difference between a front wilwood setup vs stock front? Ive been looking but I can't find definitive weights for either the wilwoods or cts - v setup.

cts-v swap can be found for close to 800 dollars, willwood is a bit over 1k, that $200 would totally be worth it if they are significantly lighter than the cts-v's...

My guess is that the advantage in weight is wilwoods 2-piece rotor vs the cts-v rotors being monstrous.

[onehundredoctane]

The Wilwood Superlites I run are 4 pistons and weight less than 5lbs each. They're a good deal at less than $180 per caliper. I use a bracket that allows to run a 350z brake rotor, so it's a very simple upgrade. Very cost effective, and weights virtually nothing compared to the stock caliper. According to Google, the CTS-V caliper weights 8 lbs.

I upgraded to Wilwood years ago, can't remember exact cost, but it was less than $450 in all of it.

[tb13]

I'm also running a 4 piston Wilwood Superlite setup. I had thought about running a bastard CTS-V/350z setup, but the extra few bucks I spent was well worth it. Wilwoods are much lighter and have huge pads plus I got 2pc 13in rotors which are super light. My setup is from Arizona ZCar and was around $1k

http://i.imgur.com/LJ4JV7Rl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iKuoyJyl.jpg

[onehundredoctane]

Track Proven on Facebook has the adapter brackets to put the wilwood calipers on the S and Z chassis and are very affordable! Couple that with one piece 350Z rotors and it's super cheap.

[tb13]

Track Proven on Facebook has the adapter brackets to put the wilwood calipers on the S and Z chassis and are very affordable! Couple that with one piece 350Z rotors and it's super cheap.

Do you know if they offer any solutions for the rear? Really wanting to swap some 6pots up front and move my 4pots to the rear.

[onehundredoctane]

Do you know if they offer any solutions for the rear? Really wanting to swap some 6pots up front and move my 4pots to the rear.

I've been trying to talk Andy, the owner, in to designing a rear set up based on the Z32 rear rotor. Nothing so far though :(

[tb13]

I've been trying to talk Andy, the owner, in to designing a rear set up based on the Z32 rear rotor. Nothing so far though :(

Might shoot him an email, show some more interest and see if he bites.

[alwaysnboost]

Love my wilwoods wouldn't trade them for anything

[onehundredoctane]

Might shoot him an email, show some more interest and see if he bites.

Last I checked, he just needed a rear 5 lug hub, as I already have a rear knuckle I could loan him for mock up. He no longer owns an S chassis and does all mock up on his work bench.

[Blue55]

=onehundredoctane]

Not sure why people are paying top dollar for those when Wilwood 4 piston calipers are lighter, and cheaper.

I found a set of caliper for $250. Significantly cheaper than the $360 you spent.

Anyway, there are several good solutions. I'm glad Wilwood works well for you.

[onehundredoctane]

I found a set of caliper for $250. Significantly cheaper than the $360 you spent.

Anyway, there are several good solutions. I'm glad Wilwood works well for you.

You paid $250 for used calipers?

[crash n' burn]

Track Proven on Facebook has the adapter brackets to put the wilwood calipers on the S and Z chassis and are very affordable! Couple that with one piece 350Z rotors and it's super cheap.

Didn't think Andy was still doing stuff for the S-chassis. I thought the F40 brackets were the last ones.

[RalliartRsX]

For the track, those CTSV calipers like to eat/destroy the (rubber) dust seals.........like every other OEM Brembo.

The Wilwood (superlites) come with SS pistons and no dust shields/rubber boots which have to be rebuilt after a few trackdays (and the red brembos like to discolor after a few heat cycles).

That and pads for the Wilwoods are 1/2 the price of a comparable Brembo.
CTSV calipers are (were) stupid cheap and the cost came out close if I went either with the CTSV or Andys setup (I ran Andy's setup for a few years). Also, Wilwood has a multitude of piston sizes to really tune brake balance. You are stuck with what the CTSV provides for standard sizing

But I do like the fact that the CTSV caliper is pretty and rotor coverage. Running Andy's brackets leave about .15" of rotor uncovered by the c
caliper/pad.

I also did a full weight comparison between the 300ZX AL and Wilwood with standard Brembo 1 piece, Andy's bracket and Wilwood superlite 1.75 and the weight was a few lbs lighther than a 300zx AL setup. So I assume even lighter yet than the comparable CTSV setup. I will have to dig up my full spreadsheet and comparison (posted elsewhere on the net with associated pictures). Standard Brembo rotor is 20.5lbs a piece. A Z1 2 piece setup is about 5-6 lbs lighter yet.

Just my 0.02c.........

I

[Blue55]

You paid $250 for used calipers?

I paid $250 for a pair of brand new calipers on Amazon. There are sometimes very good deals to be had. Currently they run $300 for the pair.

[bjreynolds202]

Blue55, I noticed you put up a video on the track with the CTS V calipers and stock rears. How was that experience? Any issues with locking up the fronts too much? How was the balance, fade, modulation, etc?

[Blue55]

Blue55, I noticed you put up a video on the track with the CTS V calipers and stock rears. How was that experience? Any issues with locking up the fronts too much? How was the balance, fade, modulation, etc?

It was very close to what I expected. CTS-V fronts, stock rears. So massive front bias. The setup is fairly easy to modulate, but it's not hard to lock up the fronts. I am deliberately building it out in steps so I can work out the kinks at each step.

I'll install Z32 rears next and most likely I'll install a brake proportioning last since I anticipate those brakes will shift the bias too much to the back.

Zero fade, but I'm not getting maximum braking potential right now as the rears are just along for the ride. So no fade, easy to modulate, heavy front bias, pretty good feel.

[tb13]

Big advantage of the Wilwoods is the pad size. Wilwoods use a 120mmx61mm pad whereas the CTSV uses a 110mmx54mm pad. The design of the Wilwood pad also fully contacts the rotor, whereas the Brembo pad tapers off at the edges making the contact patch even smaller.

[RalliartRsX]

I'll install Z32 rears next and most likely I'll install a brake proportioning last since I anticipate those brakes will shift the bias too much to the back.

Zero fade, but I'm not getting maximum braking potential right now as the rears are just along for the ride. So no fade, easy to modulate, heavy front bias, pretty good feel.

1) The rears tend to not do much work to begin with on these vehicles. The stock bias is 65-68/35-32 (or something like that). With the CTSV front/stock rears you are sitting somewhere in the 75-77/25-23 range currently

2) I would advise against a proportioning valve and tune balance via brake pads. I ran DTC 60/70s front and DTC 30/Hawk blue rear depending on bite or tire compound.

3) With Wilwood 1.75 F (4 piston) and 300ZX rears, the bias was very very close to stock. Your rear 300ZX brakes will NOT move the bias so far to the rear to necessitate a proportioning valve.

Do the math if you would like to confirm for yourself

Goodluck!

[Blue55]

1) The rears tend to not do much work to begin with on these vehicles. The stock bias is 65-68/35-32 (or something like that). With the CTSV front/stock rears you are sitting somewhere in the 75-77/25-23 range currently

2) I would advise against a proportioning valve and tune balance via brake pads. I ran DTC 60/70s front and DTC 30/Hawk blue rear depending on bite or tire compound.

3) With Wilwood 1.75 F (4 piston) and 300ZX rears, the bias was very very close to stock. Your rear 300ZX brakes will NOT move the bias so far to the rear to necessitate a proportioning valve.

Do the math if you would like to confirm for yourself

Goodluck!

That's great input Ralliart! My plan has always been to do the brakes step by step and test after each piece has been complete.

How do you calculate bias? TCE Performance has a calculator, but, I don't know how to get a pad's Cf value.
http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/bias-calculator/

[Blue55]

the Brembo pad tapers off at the edges making the contact patch even smaller.

Actually that's wrong. The pads have 100% contact with the rotors in my setup.

[onehundredoctane]

Didn't think Andy was still doing stuff for the S-chassis. I thought the F40 brackets were the last ones.

Andy is still making them, I think he makes large batches at a time, so multiple orders help justify him making them I'm sure.

[Agamemnon]

Link?.........

[onehundredoctane]

Link?.........

https://www.facebook.com/TrackProven/

[smmsak]

Hey guys sorry to thread jack but imnlooking into either of these calipers. For those of you thatbhave the wilwood superlites, is there a part nimber for them or are they universal and you just buy the mounting bracket? I see they are cheaper than the ctsv right now but not sure how many models of superlites they would have? Any help wpuld be great!! Thanks

[singlecamslam]

Can we have a separate sticky/discussion for brake setup only? Like the roll center thread but for brakes only.

[onehundredoctane]

Hey guys sorry to thread jack but imnlooking into either of these calipers. For those of you thatbhave the wilwood superlites, is there a part nimber for them or are they universal and you just buy the mounting bracket? I see they are cheaper than the ctsv right now but not sure how many models of superlites they would have? Any help wpuld be great!! Thanks

I have a set of the Track Proven adapter brackets, part number for the calipers is 120-11130, they should be the 1.38" piston for 1.25" rotor.

Summit Racing shows them for $165.22 each, and these weight under 8-11 lbs :)

Rotors to use with these are Z33 track rotors, each source from anywhere.

[koukimonst3r]

Anyone have info on how to make the ctsv 4 pot rears work? Currently have z32 rears, TIA.

[Blue55]

Anyone have info on how to make the ctsv 4 pot rears work? Currently have z32 rears, TIA.

Z32 is pretty ideal for the rears. CTSV 4 piston in the rear will be WAY too much rear brake bias. These are very light cars. The Cadillac is ~4,000lbs.

[boSted_13]

Are there any detailed threads on s13’s/ anyone running gen 1 CTS V calipers with angle mod
I’m thinking of driftknuckles.com