bush is bullshit

[citizen]

so i was watching some of the debates last night and i heard bush say this little gem in response to a question about stem cell research:
"taking life to save life is a real ethical dilemna."
so taking the 'life' from cells to help the sick is not okay, but
killing living people to 'enhance' our (supposed) 'security' is kosher
i have a word for this man and it starts with a big freakin H and ends with a big freakin E (because if i were to use it it would be all in capitall letters roofles =P)
for the lazy of you out there here's a small hint:
H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E

Kerry is hardly and improvement...
i don't care if he is the 'lesser of two evils' because he is still EVIL
to paraphrase some of his statements
"I believe the war on terror is the right thing but the president did it the wrong way." F that.

I don't think i heard one CONCRETE answer to any question during the time i listened to the so called debate.

also, if anyone bothered to pay attention to some of the third party candidates you would see why they were excluded from the debates yet again; because they would make both bush and kerry look like bumbling idiots with no real answers to anything.

take a look at Peroutka of the constitutional party, he has REAL answers for the REAL problems.

[Var]

My favorie was the last question to Bush. "What are 3 instances that you made a wrong decision and what you did to correct them" to which Bush answered


"BUSH: I have made a lot of decisions, and some of them little, like appointments to boards you never heard of, and some of them big.

And in a war, there's a lot of -- there's a lot of tactical decisions that historians will look back and say: He shouldn't have done that. He shouldn't have made that decision. And I'll take responsibility for them. I'm human.

But on the big questions, about whether or not we should have gone into Afghanistan, the big question about whether we should have removed somebody in Iraq, I'll stand by those decisions, because I think they're right.

That's really what you're -- when they ask about the mistakes, that's what they're talking about. They're trying to say, "Did you make a mistake going into Iraq?" And the answer is, "Absolutely not." It was the right decision.

The Duelfer report confirmed that decision today, because what Saddam Hussein was doing was trying to get rid of sanctions so he could reconstitute a weapons program. And the biggest threat facing America is terrorists with weapons of mass destruction.

We knew he hated us. We knew he'd been -- invaded other countries. We knew he tortured his own people.

On the tax cut, it's a big decision. I did the right decision. Our recession was one of the shallowest in modern history.

Now, you asked what mistakes. I made some mistakes in appointing people, but I'm not going to name them. I don't want to hurt their feelings on national TV.

(LAUGHTER)

BUSH: But history will look back, and I'm fully prepared to accept any mistakes that history judges to my administration, because the president makes the decisions, the president has to take the responsibility."




Cliffs notes. "What are three mistake you made?"

"Fuck you i dont make mistakes bitch, now come over here and bow down to me"

This man wont ever admit his flaws. He's so fuckin arrogant. SHE ASKED FOR 3 MISTAKES..THEN HE STARTED TALKING ABOUT HOW IRAQ WAS JUSTIFIED!!!



Also if you read the statement carfully, the syntax is all wrong. The parts where there are two dahes(--) in the transcript is where he had brain farts. Fuckin idiot

[RJF]

Get real! Kerry is the biggest hypocrite out there. He'll tell you whatever he thinks you want to hear.

I'm surprised he didn't use the line "I feel your pain" :barf:

Just look at his record.

Kerry Took BOTH Sides On First Gulf War

Kerry Took BOTH Sides In First Gulf War In Separate Letters To Same Constituent. “Rather than take a side--albeit the one he thought was most expedient--Kerry actually stood on both sides of the first Gulf war, much like he did this time around. Consider this ‘Notebook’ item from TNR’s March 25, 1991 issue, which ran under the headline ‘Same Senator, Same Constituent’: ‘Thank you for contacting me to express your opposition ... to the early use of military force by the US against Iraq. I share your concerns. On January 11, I voted in favor of a resolution that would have insisted that economic sanctions be given more time to work and against a resolution giving the president the immediate authority to go to war.’ --letter from Senator John Kerry to Wallace Carter of Newton Centre, Massachusetts, dated January 22 [1991] ‘Thank you very much for contacting me to express your support for the actions of President Bush in response to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. From the outset of the invasion, I have strongly and unequivocally supported President Bush’s response to the crisis and the policy goals he has established with our military deployment in the Persian Gulf.’ --Senator Kerry to Wallace Carter, January 31 [1991]” (Noam Scheiber, “Noam Scheiber’s Daily Journal of Politics, The New Republic Online, 1/28/04)

Flip-Flopped On Gay Marriage Amendment

In 2002, Kerry Signed Letter “Urging” MA Legislature To Reject Constitutional Amendment Banning Gay Marriage. “We rarely comment on issues that are wholly within the jurisdiction of the General Court, but there are occasions when matters pending before you are of such significance to all residents of the Commonwealth that we think it appropriate for us to express our opinion. One such matter is the proposed Constitutional amendment that would prohibit or seriously inhibit any legal recognition whatsoever of same-sex relationships. We believe it would be a grave error for Massachusetts to enshrine in our Constitution a provision which would have such a negative effect on so many of our fellow residents. … We are therefore united in urging you to reject this Constitutional amendment and avoid stigmatizing so many of our fellow citizens who do not deserve to be treated in such a manner.” (Sen. John Kerry, et al, Letter To Members Of The Massachusetts Legislature, 7/12/02)

Now, In 2004, Kerry Won’t Rule Out Supporting Similar Amendment. “Asked if he would support a state constitutional amendment barring gay and lesbian marriages, Kerry didn’t rule out the possibility. ‘I’ll have to see what language there is,’ he said.” (Susan Milligan, “Kerry Says GOP May Target Him On ‘Wedge Issue,’” The Boston Globe, 2/6/04)

Flip-Flopped On No Child Left Behind

Kerry Voted For No Child Left Behind Act. (H.R. 1, CQ Vote #371: Adopted 87-10: R 44-3; D 43-6; I 0-1, 12/18/01, Kerry Voted Yea)

But Now Kerry Is Attacking No Child Left Behind As “Mockery.” “Between now and the time I’m sworn in January 2005, I’m going to use every day to make this president accountable for making a mockery of the words ‘No Child Left Behind.’” (Holly Ramer, “Kerry Wants To Make ‘Environmental Justice’ A Priority,” The Associated Press, 4/22/03)

Kerry Trashed NCLB As ‘Unfunded Mandate’ With ‘Laudable’ Goals. “Kerry referred to [No Child Left Behind] as an ‘unfunded mandate’ with ‘laudable’ goals. ‘Without the resources, education reform is a sham,’ Kerry said. ‘I can’t wait to crisscross this country and hold this president accountable for making a mockery of the words “no child left behind.”‘“ (Matt Leon, “Sen. Kerry In Tune With Educators,” The [Quincy, MA] Patriot Ledger, 7/11/03)

Flip-Flopped On Affirmative Action

In 1992, Kerry Called Affirmative Action “Inherently Limited And Divisive.” “[W]hile praising affirmative action as ‘one kind of progress’ that grew out of civil rights court battles, Kerry said the focus on a rights-based agenda has ‘inadvertently driven most of our focus in this country not to the issue of what is happening to the kids who do not get touched by affirmative action, but … toward an inherently limited and divisive program which is called affirmative action.’ That agenda is limited, he said, because it benefits segments of black and minority populations, but not all. And it is divisive because it creates a ‘perception and a reality of reverse discrimination that has actually engendered racism.’” (Lynne Duke, “Senators Seek Serious Dialogue On Race,” The Washington Post, 4/8/92)

In 2004, Kerry Denied Ever Having Called Affirmative Action “Divisive.” CNN’s KELLY WALLACE: “We caught up with the Senator, who said he never called affirmative action divisive, and accused Clark of playing politics.” SEN. KERRY: “That’s not what I said. I said there are people who believe that. And I said mend it, don’t end it. He’s trying to change what I said, but you can go read the quote. I said very clearly I have always voted for it. I’ve always supported it. I’ve never, ever condemned it. I did what Jim Clyburn did and what Bill Clinton did, which is mend it. And Jim Clyburn wouldn’t be supporting it if it were otherwise. So let’s not have any politics here. Let’s keep the truth.” (CNN’s “Inside Politics,” 1/30/04)

Flip-Flopped On Raising Taxes During Economic Downturn

September 2001: Said Should Not Raise Taxes In Economic Downturn. “The first priority is the economy of our nation. And when you have a downturn in the economy, the last thing you do is raise taxes or cut spending. We shouldn’t do either. We need to maintain a course that hopefully will stimulate the economy. . . . No, we should not raise taxes, but we have to put everything on the table to take a look at why we have this structural problem today. . . .[Y]ou don’t want to raise taxes.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 9/2/01)

• We Should “Absolutely Not Raise Taxes.” “Well, I think it’s very clear what I favor because we voted for it early in the spring, which was the Democratic budget alternative that had triggers in it where you didn’t wind up spending money you don’t have. It had a smaller tax cut but more tax cut for a stimulus, which is what we need. So you ask me, what do we need now? Yes, we need additional stimulus. We should absolutely not raise taxes. We should not cut spending. What we need to do is drive the economy of this country. The economy is the number one issue. It is the most important thing we should focus on.” (CNN’s “Evans, Novak, Hunt & Shields,” 9/8/01)

• April 2002: Said He Wanted Larger Tax Cut And Was “Not In Favor Of” Repeal. CNN’s TUCKER CARLSON: “Senator Kerry . . . [many Democrats] [g]et a lot of political mileage out of criticizing [President Bush’s tax cut], but nobody has the courage to say repeal it. Are you for repealing it?” KERRY: “It’s not a question of courage. . . . And it’s not an issue right now. We passed appropriately a tax cut as a stimulus, some $40 billion. Many of us thought it should have even maybe been a little bit larger this last year … [T]he next tax cut doesn’t take effect until 2004. If we can grow the economy enough between now and then, if we have sensible policies in place and make good choices, who knows what our choices will be. So it’s simply not a ripe issue right now. And I’m not in favor of turning around today and repealing it.” (CNN’s “Crossfire,” 4/16/02)

December 2002: Flip-Flopped, Would Keep Tax Cuts From Taking Effect. NBC’s TIM RUSSERT: “Senator . . . should we freeze or roll back the Bush tax cut?” KERRY: “Well, I wouldn’t take away from people who’ve already been given their tax cut … What I would not do is give any new Bush tax cuts.” … RUSSERT: “So the tax cut that’s scheduled to be implemented in the coming years …” KERRY: “No new tax cut under the Bush plan. . . . It doesn’t make economic sense.” … RUSSERT: “Now, this is a change …” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 12/1/02)

• Called For Freeze Of Bush Tax Cuts In Favor Of Year-Long Suspension Of Payroll Taxes On First $10,000 Of Personal Income. “Kerry said Bush’s tax cuts have mainly benefited the rich while doing little for the economy. Kerry is proposing to halt Bush’s additional tax cuts and instead impose a yearlong suspension of payroll taxes on the first $10,000 of income to help the poor and middle class.” (Tyler Bridges, “Kerry Visits Miami To Start Raising Funds,” The Miami Herald, 12/7/02)

Flip-Flopped On Small Business Income Taxes

Kerry Voted Against Exempting Small Businesses And Family Farms From Clinton Income Tax Increase. (S. Con. Res. 18, CQ Vote #79: Motion Agreed To 54-45: R 0-43; D 54-2, 3/25/93, Kerry Voted Yea)

Three Months Later, Kerry Voted In Favor Of Proposal To Exclude Small Businesses From The Increased Income Tax. (S. 1134, CQ Vote #171: Motion Rejected 56-42: R 43-0; D 13-42, 6/24/93, Kerry Voted Yea)

Kerry Claimed He Fought To Exempt Small Businesses From Income Tax Increases. “I worked to amend the reconciliation bill so that it would … exempt small businesses who are classified as subchapter S corporations from the increased individual income tax.” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 6/29/93, p. S 8268)

Kerry Flip-Flopped On 50-Cent Gas Tax Increase

In 1994, Kerry Backed Half-Dollar Increase In Gas Tax. “Kerry said [the Concord Coalition’s scorecard] did not accurately reflect individual lawmakers’ efforts to cut the deficit. ‘It doesn’t reflect my $43 billion package of cuts or my support for a 50-cent increase in the gas tax,’ Kerry said.” (Jill Zuckman, “Deficit-Watch Group Gives High Marks To 7 N.E. Lawmakers,” The Boston Globe, 3/1/94)

Two Years Later, Kerry Flip-Flopped. “Kerry no longer supports the 50-cent [gas tax] hike, nor the 25-cent hike proposed by the [Concord] coalition.” (Michael Grunwald, “Kerry Gets Low Mark On Budgeting,” The Boston Globe, 4/30/96)

Flip-Flopped On Leaving Abortion Up To States

Kerry Used To Say Abortion Should Be Left Up To States. “I think the question of abortion is one that should be left for the states to decide,” Kerry said during his failed 1972 Congressional bid. (“John Kerry On The Issues,” The [Lowell, MA] Sun, 10/11/72)

Now Kerry Says Abortion Is Law Of Entire Nation. “The right to choose is the law of the United States. No person has the right to infringe on that freedom. Those of us who are in government have a special responsibility to see to it that the United States continues to protect this right, as it must protect all rights secured by the constitution.” (Sen. John Kerry [D-MA], Congressional Record, 1/22/85)

Flip-Flopped On Federal Health Benefits

In 1993, Kerry Expressed Doubts That Federal Employees Health Benefits System Worked Well. “Hillary Rodham Clinton today offered a fresh description of one of the most confusing elements of the Administration health care plan, the health insurance purchasing alliances, saying they would let all Americans choose coverage in the way members of Congress do. … Senator John Kerry, Democrat of Massachusetts, said he was not sure that the Federal program worked all that well.” (Adam Clymer, “Hillary Clinton Says Health Plan Will Be Familiar,” The New York Times, 12/8/93)

Kerry Expressed Personal Dissatisfaction With His Coverage Through Federal Program. “Earlier this month, when Hillary Rodham Clinton came to Boston and vowed that average Americans would get as good coverage as that enjoyed by their senators and representatives, Sen. John F. Kerry told Clinton that he thought the country could do better. The Massachusetts Democrat said he was thinking, among other recent disasters, of his $500 dental bill for treatment of an abscessed tooth. ‘Because it was done in the dentist’s office, rather than the hospital, they didn’t cover it. So they were urging me to go spend twice as much in a hospital,’ said Kerry, who is covered by BACE, the Beneficial Association of Capitol Employees.” (Ana Puga, “Lawmakers Talk Health Care,” The Boston Globe, 12/19/93)

Now, On Campaign Trail, Kerry Is Enthusiastic About Health Care He Receives As Senator. “As a U.S. Senator, I could get the best health care in the world. Most people aren’t so lucky, and we need to change that. That’s why my plan gives every American access to the same kind of health care that members of Congress give themselves. … Because your family’s health care is just as important as any politicians’ in Washington.” (Sen. John Kerry, “Affordable Health Care For All Americans,” Remarks At Mercy Medical, Cedar Rapids, IA, 12/14/03)

Kerry: “I’m Going To Make Available To Every American The Same Health Care Plan That Senators And Congressmen Give Themselves …” (Sen. John Kerry, AARP Democrat Candidate Debate, Bedford, NH, 11/18/03)

Flip-Flopped On Tax Credits For Small Business Health

In 2001, Kerry Voted Against Amendment Providing $70 Billion For Tax Credits For Small Business To Purchase Health Insurance. (H. Con. Res. 83, CQ Vote #83: Rejected 49-51: R 48-2; D 1-49, 4/5/01, Kerry Voted Nay)

Now, Kerry Promises Refundable Tax Credits To Small Businesses For Health Coverage. “Refundable tax credits for up to 50 percent of the cost of coverage will be offered to small businesses and their employees to make health care more affordable.” (“John Kerry’s Plan To Make Health Care Affordable To Every American,” John Kerry For President Website, www.johnkerry.com, Accessed 1/21/04)

Flip-Flopped On Health Coverage

In 1994, Kerry Said Democrats Push Health Care Too Much. “[Kerry] said Kennedy and Clinton’s insistence on pushing health care reform was a major cause of the Democratic Party’s problems at the polls.” (Joe Battenfeld, “Jenny Craig Hit With Sex Harassment Complaint - By Men,” Boston Herald, 11/30/94)

But Now Kerry Calls Health Care His “Passion.” “Sen. John Kerry says expanding coverage is ‘my passion.’” (Susan Page, “Health Specifics Could Backfire On Candidates,” USA Today, 6/2/03)

Flip-Flopped On Welfare Reform

In 1993, Kerry Voted To Kill Bipartisan Welfare Work Requirement. In 1993, Kerry and Kennedy voted against a welfare-to-work requirement that was supported by many Democrats, including Sens. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and Harry Reid (D-NV):

• Fiscal 1993 Supplemental Appropriations - Welfare Work Requirement. “Moynihan, D-N.Y., motion to table (kill) the D’Amato, R-N.Y., amendment to sharply cut federal welfare administration aid to states that do not, within a year, require at least 10 percent of their able-bodied welfare recipients without dependents to work. The required workfare participation rate would be increased by 2 percent a year until 50 percent were working.” (H.R. 2118, CQ Vote #163: Rejected 34-64: R 1-42; D 33-22, 6/22/93, Kerry Voted Yea)

But In 1996, Kerry Voted For Welfare Reform. (H.R. 3734, CQ Vote #262: Adopted 78-21: R 53-0; D 25-21, 8/1/96, Kerry Voted Yea)

Flip-Flopped On Medical Marijuana

Kerry Said His “Personal Disposition Is Open To The Issue Of Medical Marijuana.” “Aaron Houston of the Granite Staters for Medical Marijuana said that just a month ago Mr. Kerry seemed to endorse medical marijuana use, and when asked about the content of his mysterious study, said, ‘I am trying to find out. I don’t know.’ Mr. Kerry did say his ‘personal disposition is open to the issue of medical marijuana’ and that he’d stop Drug Enforcement Administration raids on patients using the stuff under California’s medical marijuana law.” (Jennifer Harper, “Inside Politics,” The Washington Times, 8/8/03)

But Now Kerry Says He Wants To Wait For Study Analyzing Issue Before Making Final Decision. “The Massachusetts Democrat said Wednesday he’d put off any final decision on medical marijuana because there’s ‘a study under way analyzing what the science is.’” (Jennifer Harper, “Inside Politics,” The Washington Times, 8/8/03)

Flip-Flopped On Military Experience As Credential For Public Office

Kerry: Service Should Not Be “Litmus Test” For Leadership. “Mr. President, you and I know that if support or opposition to the war were to become a litmus test for leadership, America would never have leaders or recover from the divisions created by that war. You and I know that if service or nonservice in the war is to become a test of qualification for high office, you would not have a Vice President, nor would you have a Secretary of Defense and our Nation would never recover from the divisions created by that war.” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/08/92, p. S17709)

But Now Kerry Constantly “Challenges The Stature Of His Democratic Opponents” Over Their Lack Of Military Service. “And more than ever, Mr. Kerry is invoking his stature as a Vietnam veteran as he challenges the stature of his Democratic opponents -- none of whom, he frequently points out, have ‘worn the uniform of our country’ -- to withstand a debate with Mr. Bush on national security.” (Adam Nagourney, “As Campaign Tightens, Kerry Sharpens Message,” The New York Times, 8/10/03)

Flip-Flopped On PACs

Kerry Used To Decry “Special Interests And Their PAC Money.” “‘I’m frequently told by cynics in Washington that refusing PAC money is naive,’ Kerry told his supporters in 1985. ‘Do you agree that it is “naïve” to turn down special interests and their PAC money?’” (Glen Johnson, “In A Switch, Kerry Is Launching A PAC,” The Boston Globe, 12/15/01)

But Now, Kerry Has Established His Own PAC. “A week after repeating that he has refused to accept donations from political action committees, Senator John F. Kerry announced yesterday that he was forming a committee that would accept PAC money for him to distribute to other Democratic candidates. … Kerry’s stance on soft money, unregulated donations funneled through political parties, puts him in the position of raising the type of money that he, McCain, and others in the campaign-finance reform movement are trying to eliminate.” (Glen Johnson, “In A Switch, Kerry Is Launching A PAC,” The Boston Globe, 12/15/01)

Flip-Flopped On $10,000 Donation Limit To His PAC

When Kerry Established His PAC In 2001, He Instituted A $10,000 Limit On Donations. “A week after repeating that he has refused to accept donations from political action committees, Senator John F. Kerry announced yesterday that he was forming a committee that would accept PAC money for him to distribute to other Democratic candidates … The statement also declared that the new PAC would voluntarily limit donations of so-called soft money to $10,000 per donor per year and disclose the source and amount of all such donations.” (Glen Johnson, “In A Switch, Kerry Is Launching A Pac,” The Boston Globe, 12/15/01)

One Year Later, Kerry Started Accepting Unlimited Contributions. “Senator John F. Kerry, who broke with personal precedent last year when he established his first political action committee, has changed his fund-raising guidelines again, dropping a $10,000 limit on contributions from individuals, a cap he had touted when establishing the PAC. The Massachusetts Democrat said yesterday he decided to accept unlimited contributions, which has already allowed him to take in ‘soft money’ donations as large as $25,000, because of the unprecedented fund-raising demands confronting him as a leader in the Senate Democratic caucus.” (Glen Johnson, “Kerry Shifts Fund-Raising Credo For His Own PAC,” The Boston Globe, 10/4/02)

Flip-Flopped On Using Personal Funds In 1996 Race

In 1996, Kerry And Weld Established $500,000 Limit Of Personal Wealth To Be Used In Senate Campaign. “In 1996, Kerry and Weld gave their already noteworthy Senate race added significance by establishing a spending cap. The candidates agreed to spend no more than $6.9 million from July 1 through the election. Weld ended up spending $6.6 million and Kerry $6.3 million. One key element of the agreement limited the candidates to spending $500,000 in personal wealth, a clause Weld favored because Kerry is married to a millionaire, Teresa Heinz.” (Glen Johnson, “In Kerry’s Plan For A Pac, The Resolution Of Opposites,” The Boston Globe, 12/18/01)

Kerry Broke Agreement By Spending $1.2 Million Over Limit. “[P]ost-election reports showed a last-minute infusion of $1.7 million from Kerry’s wife, heiress Teresa Heinz. … [K]erry denied that his campaign violated its agreement. The money had been loaned--not contributed--by his wife, he explained. ‘There was nothing in the agreement that restricted us from taking a loan … and we paid it back in $1,000 and $2,000 chunks.’” (“Global Ecology Lobby Rocked By Defection,” Political Finance, The Newsletter, 1/02)

Flip-Flopped On 1991 Iraq War Coalition

At The Time, Kerry Questioned Strength Of 1991 Coalition. “I keep hearing from people, ‘Well, the coalition is fragile, it won’t stay together,’ and my response to that is, if the coalition is so fragile, then what are the vital interests and what is it that compels us to risk our young American’s lives if the others aren’t willing to stay the … course of peace? … I voted against the president, I’m convinced we’re doing this the wrong way …” (CBS’ “This Morning,” 1/16/91)

Now Kerry Has Nothing But Praise For 1991 Coalition. SEN. JOHN KERRY: “In my speech on the floor of the Senate I made it clear, you are strongest when you act with other nations. All presidents, historically, his father, George Herbert Walker Bush, did a brilliant job of building a legitimate coalition and even got other people to help pay for the war.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 1/11/04)

Flip-Flopped On View Of War On Terror

Kerry Said War On Terror Is “Basically A Manhunt.” “Kerry was asked about Bush’s weekend appearance on ‘Meet the Press’ when he called himself a ‘war president.’ The senator, who watched the session, remarked: ‘The war on terrorism is a very different war from the way the president is trying to sell it to us. It’s a serious challenge, and it is a war of sorts, but it is not the kind of war they’re trying to market to America.’ Kerry characterized the war on terror as predominantly an intelligence-gathering and law enforcement operation. ‘It’s basically a manhunt,’ he said. ‘You gotta know who they are, where they are, what they’re planning, and you gotta be able to go get ‘em before they get us.’” (Katherine M. Skiba, “Bush, Kerry Turn Focus To Each Other,” Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 2/13/04)

Two Weeks Later, Kerry Flip-Flopped, Saying War On Terror Is More Than “A Manhunt”. “This war isn’t just a manhunt – a checklist of names from a deck of cards. In it, we do not face just one man or one terrorist group. We face a global jihadist movement of many groups, from different sources, with separate agendas, but all committed to assaulting the United States and free and open societies around the globe.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At University Of California At Los Angeles, Los Angeles, CA, 2/27/04)

Flip-Flopped On Funding For Our Troops In Iraq

Kerry Pledged To Fund Reconstruction With “Whatever Number” Of Dollars It Took. NBC’S TIM RUSSERT: “Do you believe that we should reduce funding that we are now providing for the operation in Iraq?” SEN. JOHN KERRY: “No. I think we should increase it.” RUSSERT: “Increase funding?” KERRY: “Yes.” RUSSERT: “By how much?” KERRY: “By whatever number of billions of dollars it takes to win. It is critical that the United States of America be successful in Iraq, Tim.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 8/31/03)

Then Kerry Voted Against Senate Passage Of Iraq/Afghanistan Reconstruction Package. “Passage of the bill that would appropriate $86.5 billion in fiscal 2004 supplemental spending for military operations and reconstruction in Iraq and Afghanistan. The bill would provide $10.3 billion as a grant to rebuild Iraq, including $5.1 billion for security and $5.2 billion for reconstruction costs. It also would provide $10 billion as a loan that would be converted to a grant if 90 percent of all bilateral debt incurred by the former Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein has been forgiven by other countries. Separate provisions limit reconstruction aid to $18.4 billion. It also would provide approximately $65.6 billion for military operations and maintenance and $1.3 billion for veterans medical care.” (S. 1689, CQ Vote #400: Passed 87-12: R 50-0; D 37-11; I 0-1, 10/17/03, Kerry Voted Nay)

Kerry Later Claimed: “I Actually Did Vote For The $87 Billion Before I Voted Against It.” (Glen Johnson, “Kerry Blasts Bush On Protecting Troops,” The Boston Globe, 3/17/04)

[kazuo]

RJF, do you have any better defense than the fact that he "flip-flops"?

Have you ever wanted to eat pizza one day but decided to eat hamburgers instead?

Have you ever wanted to see "Star Wars" but instead decided to watch the film adaptation of "the Shawshank Redemption?"

Have you ever wanted to go out and chase some tail but decided to stay home cus you were "too tired?"

FLIP-FLOPPER

*rolls eyes*

[RJF]

RJF, do you have any better defense than the fact that he "flip-flops"?

Have you ever wanted to eat pizza one day but decided to eat hamburgers instead?

Have you ever wanted to see "Star Wars" but instead decided to watch the film adaptation of "the Shawshank Redemption?"

Have you ever wanted to go out and chase some tail but decided to stay home cus you were "too tired?"

FLIP-FLOPPER

*rolls eyes*

Yes, but my decisions don't affect millions of lives in this country.

[DriftMonkey]

RJF is the man. and yes pizza and hamburgers is almost the same as WAR and politics excpet one has more implications than the other and when u cant make up ur mind its kind of dangerous and im not saying that pizza and hambugers are dangerous... U GET ME

[mjjstang]

when I watched that video of bush tryin to know what soverignty (i may have spelled it wrong but I know what it means) with the american indians was, thats when I just stopped and decided im not votin or caring about this country.

[Var]

RJF ..this is the sad part. Nobody is saying Kerry is perfect. We know his record. We know he's talking out of his ass just to get elected.

BUT THAT'S JUST HOW BAD WE HATE BUSH!!!!

I LIKE the fact that Kerry flip flops. It shows he's humble enough to realize that things arent black and white all the time. He votes for something, then the government goes and fucks it up, so then next he votes against it. It makes perfect sense to me.

[citizen]

the only reason Kerry is better than bush imho is that he hasn't proven that he will fuck up this country even more. Bush has proven himself an incompenent leader already. give kerry the chance and he very well might do the same. i know no third party candidate is going to get elected this time around so i would rather hazard a chance to see what kerry will do. but, i still believe they are both bad enough that i wouldn't vote for either. in conclusion, they both can suck my lefty!

[RJF]

It shows he's humble ....

Humble? You have to be kidding?

He's an elitist and a snob who thinks he's better than everyone else.

How about the comment last night when they were discussing taxes and how only people who made over $200,000 who have a tax increase. He said that only he, Bush and Charlie Gibson would be affected.

How did he know that? Was he looking at how the audience was dressed and saying to himself "Oh, that's a cheap suit or a tacky blouse, so you must not be successful."

He has stepped on people all his life to get what he wants or to further his political career...it started when he came back from Vietnam and called all soldiers war criminals, just because there was an anti-war sentiment in this country and now he's doing it again.

http://www.tangate.com/kerrysmug..jpg
Smug, arrogant pose

[citizen]

what about bush stepping on entire countries to get what he wants?

what the hell do you see in him? why would you ever vote for the guy? i fail to see any reason...

[RJF]

what about bush stepping on entire countries to get what he wants?

what the hell do you see in him? why would you ever vote for the guy? i fail to see any reason...

I see someone who has led this country for the past four years and is doing everything possible to make sure there isn't another day like 9/11.

As for stepping on countries....When? Where? How? I guess that means you're in favor of Kerry's "Global Test"?

[SilviaNinja240]

As for stepping on countries....When? Where?

O..M..G.. I can't believe you are unaware of whats going on.
Besides Britan (which is about to hang Blair from Big Ben, then once he's gone we really will be alone) the U.S. has no friends in the world.

[Var]

As for stepping on countries....When? Where? How?

You know..he hasnt stepped on any countries really bad except Iraq. But one country is pretty significant. When he invaded Iraq he made one mistake, he didnt have enough troops and no backup. We needed 1 million troops for this job. We needed more troops to do a cleaner job. The only think you can do with insufficient ground forces is blow things up. You cant control people you can only kill them. We needed Russia for this one. At least

[citizen]

global test, uhuh try using context next time. i've seen the full quote and your murduring kerry's intended message.

first and foremost bush is stepping ON THIS COUNTRY to do what HE wants. a majority of people HERE and NOW didn't want to go to 'war' in Iraq but he did it anyways. What we are doing in Iraq is unconstitutional. He stepping on the foundation of our government to do it. You may refer to Artiicle 1 Section 8 of the consitution, congress and only congress may declare a state of war. Bush has forced us into this "war on terror" (war being defined as: A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties. Terror in this case being defined as: anyone who bushy is displeased with).

i dont think i need even mention how he is stepping on the Iraqi people.

There is NOTHING anybody can do to prevent another 9/11. But, i believe the best way to try and avoid it is better relations with foreign entitiies. The first step to accomplishing this would be GETTING THE FUCK OUT OF THEIR BUSINESS. Stop pissing people off and they have less reason to retaliate. This country has too many problems of its own right now to be interfering with other nations. He is president of the United States first and foremost so he should be dealing with REAL problems facing America right now.

Once Bush is elected Protector of Freedom, happiness and everything rightious in the World then he can go deal with 'liberating' foreign nations and overthrowing tyranical leaders. until then its NOT IN HIS JOB DESCRIPTION!

*edited for poor editing*

[Phlip]

^^^ You mean the war on terror -- err... The libel campaign against malicious intent won't prevent another 9/11-type event? Well operation Iraqi freedom -- err... Operation America 2.0 HAD to be a good idea, right? I guess this means that we will have to see about getting Bush elected president of the world so he CAN have "protector of freedom" in his job description.

[Var]

If Bush had found a rock on the street, it would have been the anti-terror rock. He would have claimed that this rock keeps terrorsist away, and proof would be that no attacks happened since 9/11. And if you don't re-elect him, you're not gonna have the protection of the anit-terror rock.

[HockeyMatt04]

They're both fucking idiots, but I'd rather have somone in the White House with experience, no matter how bad it was, than risk a new idiot in the White House with no experience.

[evilimport]

You may refer to Artiicle 1 Section 8 of the consitution, congress and only congress may declare a state of war.
several US president havent declared war in this century and have gone to it none-the-less.

Bush has forced us into this "war on terror"
Last I checked the terrorists attacked us first REQUIRING a response (war).

(war being defined as: A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties.without congressional approval.
this is the opposite of what you wrote in the first quote...

Terror in this case being defined as: anyone who bushy is displeased with).
:rolleyes: :loco:

[SilviaNinja240]

Last I checked the terrorists attacked us first REQUIRING a response (war).

That was Afganistan and its over.

[citizen]

several US president havent declared war in this century and have gone to it none-the-less.


Last I checked the terrorists attacked us first REQUIRING a response (war).


this is the opposite of what you wrote in the first quote...


:rolleyes: :loco:

1. if i was alive back then i wouldnt have supported those 'wars'
2. going after terrorists to protect our country = ok, overthrowing regimes because we dont like them = not ok
3. writing "without congressional approval" was a mistake. if you notice it was indepedent of the first statement and was obviously out of place. i was editing with copy and paste and missed deleting it
4. i will not refute that i may actually be crazy because i just might be. but the world is a crazy place these days so what's a little more lunacy?

[citizen]

They're both fucking idiots, but I'd rather have somone in the White House with experience, no matter how bad it was, than risk a new idiot in the White House with no experience.
maybe im just a gambling man, but i would prefer to give chance to the wildcard instead of someone who's actions have already proven to be detrimental to this country.

[mrmephistopheles]

Pratt in 2016!

[Chernobyl]

I LIKE the fact that Kerry flip flops. It shows he's humble enough to realize that things arent black and white all the time. He votes for something, then the government goes and fucks it up, so then next he votes against it. It makes perfect sense to me.

Agreed 100%

At least he knows when enough is enough. I'd rather have a president that is willing to admit he was wrong.

[evilimport]

1. if i was alive back then i wouldnt have supported those 'wars'
please....dont be a tree hugger...Wars arent nice but sometimes they are necessary. Korea and Vietnam were very nasty wars but necessary regardless.

[evilimport]

Agreed 100%

At least he knows when enough is enough.
right...enough with one side of an issue lets go to the other side to make everyone else happy too....

[zero.counter]

Neither candidate is worthy, but one must be picked. The lesser of two evils I imagine.

Something to ponder in your free time,
Skull and Bones....

[mrmephistopheles]

Wars arent nice but sometimes they are necessary. Korea and Vietnam were very nasty wars but necessary regardless.

Don't be naive. Vietnam was not necessary. Korea wasn't either, but I'd say it was better justified than Vietnam. The US was fighting Communism because of the Red Scare of the 50s and 60s. We saw Communism as a viable threat to our way of life (much like terrorism today), so we fought against it with any excuse we could. Look at Vietnam. The French got their asses handed to them by the Viet Cong, so when they said 'Fuck it' and bugged out, we sent 'advisors' over there lickety split to train the South Vietnamese. From there, it snowballed into the 'war' (not technically a war since it was never declared - same with Korea, even though military service during those times was considered wartime service).

In Korea, at least we had a fighting chance, in Vietnam, we were pooched from the get-go. The VC had spent ~8 years (iirc) fighting the French (and kicking the shit out of them), so they were already entrenched and battle-hardened. Sending draftees into Cong territory was sending lambs to slaughter.

[RJF]

Fighting communism was important, just as this current war on terror is.

I mentioned this in another post, I'm probably alittle older than most of you, but I still remember in elementary school doing drills and marching to the fallout shelter in case of nuclear attack by the Soviets.

Do you want your children today/tomorrow to have to worry about going to school and being taken hostage like just happened in Russia? Or you going to a mall, restaurant or movie theater and being blown up by a suicide bomber.
How about our water supplies? Ricin, anthrax or even worse nerve agents would wipe out thousands in a heart beat.

Because thats what the next methods are going to be. They're not going to use airliners anymore, but go after soft targets. Israel lives with in every day.

Ronald Reagan had the balls to go at the Soviets and Bush has them to go after terrorists.

[mrmephistopheles]

I'm not saying fighting Communism isn't important - just that Vietnam wasn't a very good idea (in retrospect - at the time, I'm sure we thought of the VC as backcountry bushwackers who hadn't the means or motivation to fight the US).
Reagan was a great leader, and was definitely instrumental in the fall of Soviet Communism. What happened to the Soviet Union will most likely happen to all Soviet countries (especially those with embargos). Look at North Korea - their general mindset is stuck in the '50s and '60s. Their armies train as though the US will invade tomorrow. Look at Cuba - they're still driving around 50's cars because they can't get anything new.

[evilimport]

Your right ^....

But in retrospect you can shoot down most war's ethics (at the time) with what we see today. And there will always be a better way to do things but during wartime you have to act and make decsions as best you can with what you know at the time...

[mrmephistopheles]

Your right ^....

But in retrospect you can shoot down most war's ethics (at the time) with what we see today. And there will always be a better way to do things but during wartime you have to act and make decsions as best you can with what you know at the time...

I don't think you got what I'm saying: I understand WHY we went to war at the time, and I'm not knocking that decision. In retrospect, the decision wasn't such a great one. All told, the ends of 2nd Iraq war were VERY well worth it, even if the means aren't totally justified - especially given the relatively few servicemembers we've lost and the fact that we've essentially captured the entire country. Granted, they've still got terrorists to face, but such is life when you're in a country where firearms aren't regulated. I've said it before and I'll repeat it: I don't agree with our reasons for invading Iraq, but deposing Saddam and his regime was absolutely worth it. Honestly, I wouldn't be too shocked to see a large-scale building happen in Iraq of US forces as a precursor to an invasion of Iran. I'm very curious to see exactly what justification we use to kick THAT tea party off.

[balmo]

i watched the 1st debate and all i could say is that bush is not a good speaker. long pauses with "...ummm" doesnt really convince voters. my whole outlook with bush really changed when i watched farenheit 9/11.

[DriftMonkey]

if your basing anyhting on a movie you have some research to do. Especially a Michael Moore movie. the guy twists things to show what he wants to show. He is one of the most liberal men in america. i would do some research and just see how much opposistion there is to moore's movies simply because his movies are full of lies and deception. His movies are just that MOVIES, FICTION.... they are barely classified as documentaries. u have to take his movies with a grain of salt. If you support Kerry thats fine but have real reasons to take that side not Michael Moore's movie...thats pure lunacy...

[RJF]

i watched the 1st debate and all i could say is that bush is not a good speaker. long pauses with "...ummm" doesnt really convince voters. my whole outlook with bush really changed when i watched farenheit 9/11.

To get a balanced view, you need to watch FahrenHype 911

[citizen]

saying you dont agree with why we went for war but support the end result is a cop out... if you support the end result then YOU SUPPORT the justifications for going to war. there ain't no free meals round here boooooaaaah!

[RJF]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134978,00.html

WALLACE: President Bush said in Friday's debate that John Kerry is a big tax-and-spend liberal. I want to play some of what Kerry said in his closing statement. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: I have a plan to provide health care to all Americans.

I have a plan to provide for our schools, so we keep the standards, but we help our teachers teach and elevate our schools by funding No Child Left Behind.

I have a plan to protect the environment.


(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Sure sounds like a tax-and-spend liberal.

EDWARDS: No, I don't think so. If you look at John Kerry's record, Chris, he has a long history of fighting for fiscal responsibility, of fighting for balanced budgets. He stood up against his own party back in the 1980s to move us toward fiscal responsibility. He's been fighting basically the entire time he's been in the United States Senate for more cops on the street, more tax cuts for the middle class.

And I think the reality is, John Kerry is right in the mainstream, and what the president's saying is a distortion.

WALLACE: Let's look at the map of the Kerry-Edwards budget plan. The highly respected and independent Concord Coalition came out with an analysis this week. Let's take a look at it.

Your repeal of tax cuts for the rich and reform of the estate tax would bring in an extra $286 billion over 10 years. But your health- care plan would cost $476 billion. More education funding would cost $155 billion. Adding 40,000 troops would mean another $60 billion. The total increase, according to the independent Concord Coalition, in deficit: $1.27 trillion over 10 years.

Senator, the numbers don't add up.

EDWARDS: Well, I would respectfully disagree with that.

And I have to say first, we have enormous respect for the Concord Coalition. They do a lot of important and good work about fiscal responsibility. But there are some things left out, first of all, and the way they calculate some of those things we would certainly disagree with.

But, in terms of the things that are left out, I mean, we would also close down some corporate welfare and some corporate loopholes, and John McCain has said that would save $300 billion.

On top of that, we would also reduce some bureaucratic spending in Washington and some overlap between some bureaucratic agencies in Washington, which would also save many billions of dollars.

And I would add at the end of all that, John Kerry and I have made absolutely clear, Chris, that we have made this commitment. We are going to meet our commitment. And what that means is, if we have to scale something back, we will scale it back. And we are committed to doing that, and John Kerry's made that commitment.

WALLACE: Well, I want to follow up on precisely that point, because in Friday's debate, Senator Kerry said that he would cut the deficit in half during his first term, he would cut taxes for the middle class, but he also had all these new spending programs.

Are you saying right here and now that if the numbers, when you get into office, don't add up, that it's the spending programs that go first?

EDWARDS: Yes. Plus the other -- don't forget the other things that I just said. But yes, on top of the other things I said, if we have to cut something back -- for example, I know John's already talked about, if necessary, cutting back national service programs, early childhood, I mean, some other things that are near and dear to our heart. But if they're necessary, we'll do it.

I just have to say, though -- you have to give me a second on this --you know, for the president to be attacking John Kerry for fiscal responsibility is outrageous. I mean, they took a $5 trillion surplus, projected surplus, turned it into a $3 trillion projected deficit in four years -- $8 trillion turnaround, the biggest turnaround in American history.

You know, according to the newspapers, they've got another $3 trillion of spending in tax cuts that they have absolutely no way of paying for. I mean, they have been the walking, breathing example of fiscal irresponsibility. And for them to be critical of Senator Kerry on this is the height of hypocrisy.

WALLACE: But again, just to clear it up, I just want to make clear that you're saying that even Kerry's cherished health-care plan, he would cut that back before he would add to the deficit or raise taxes on the middle class?

EDWARDS: We will not raise taxes on the middle class, as John said clearly. And we will cut back -- we will cut back on our programs if it's necessary to make sure that that happens.


President Bush said the same thing the other night. You can't cut the deficit and fund all the programs that he is promising. There's no way that they can cut that much "fat" from the budget. Just doesn't make sense.

[DriftMonkey]

watchem both and do ur freaking research then come back with some legitimate opinions...none of this michael moore bull

[mrmephistopheles]

i watched the 1st debate and all i could say is that bush is not a good speaker. long pauses with "...ummm" doesnt really convince voters. my whole outlook with bush really changed when i watched farenheit 9/11.
If you saw the second debate, you'd have noticed that Kerry had a great deal of ums and uhs in his statements. I think Bush tends to do that because he's actually thinking about what he's saying, and not just spouting off rhetoric.

[evilimport]

my whole outlook with bush really changed when i watched farenheit 9/11.
good lord, its a shame Bush is going to lose votes because of that idiot bullshit movie.... Come on peps, there is more to everything than Michael Moore's (distorted) views of this country and it leaders...he needs to go back to Canada and start visiting Subway everyday....

[mrmephistopheles]

No shit. Every person I hear lauding Michael Moore is a fucking sheep to me. (note: not a 'fucking' sheep, like farmboys enjoy... and adjective-noun.. a fucking sheep.)
To give that guy credit for 'exposing' the Bush administration is crap. His shitty film (yes, I've seen it) is a very well-edited and well produced propaganda film. I suggest that if you enjoy his work, you pay a visit to North Korea, or take a time machine to Soviet Russia of 1980. You'll fit right in. Not saying you're a communist for liking the film - just that you're happy with being spoonfed bullshit.

[DriftMonkey]

thank you... theres too many people basing their political views off this guy and it's sad that the movie will have an implication on peoples votes this november.....im glad to see there are people whose bullshit detectors are actually working ...

[Phlip]

I suggest that if you enjoy his work, you pay a visit to North Korea, or take a time machine to Soviet Russia of 1980. You'll fit right in. Not saying you're a communist for liking the film - just that you're happy with being spoonfed bullshit.
I'm going to disagree with you here, I will offer you that we will continue to be spoonfed bullshit no matter who wins this election... If Bush wins, we will continue to be spoonfed the same bullshit, Kerry will bring new bullshit... Either way, I can't imagine I will like the taste of it. This has nothing to do with Michael Moore in my opinion.

im glad to see there are people whose bullshit detectors are actually working ...
Does this mean I should relax my bullshit detector when I am told that there are WMDs... err -- credible links to al-Qaeda... er -- whatever other shit I am told that I am just not safe in my living room until the "libel campaign against malicious intent" (I refuse to call it a "war on terror," seeing as how 'terror' is not a tangible thing to declare war on) has been won, and that the only way to see it through is to keep a Bush in the office... My bullshit filter works, and this presidential campaign, FROM BOTH SIDES is the biggest crock of shit since "the war on drugs."

[DriftMonkey]

holy crap.....here is credible links to al queda ...

...consider the facts presented in Stephen F. Hayes's book,
The Connection : How al Qaeda's Collaboration with Saddam Hussein Has
Endangered America (N.Y.: HarperCollins, 2004). The first paragraph of
the last chapter (pp. 177-78) sums up some of the evidence:

Iraqi intelligence documents from 1992 list Osama bin Laden as an
Iraqi intelligence asset. Numerous sources have reported a 1993
nonaggression pact between Iraq and al Qaeda. The former deputy
director of Iraqi intelligence now in U.S. custody says that bin Laden
asked the Iraqi regime for arms and training in a face-to-face meeting
in 1994. Senior al Qaeda leader Abu Hajer al Iraqi met with Iraqi
intelligence officials in 1995. The National Security Agency
intercepted telephone conversations between al Qaeda-supported Sudanese
military officials and the head of Iraq's chemical weapons program in
1996. Al Qaeda sent Abu Abdallah al Iraqi to Iraq for help with weapons
of mass destruction in 1997. An indictment from the Clinton-era Justice
Department cited Iraqi assistance on al Qaeda "weapons development" in
1998. A senior Clinton administration counterterrorism official told
the Washington Post that the U.S. government was "sure" Iraq had
supported al Qaeda chemical weapons programs in 1999. An Iraqi working
closely with the Iraqi embassy in Kuala Lumpur was photographed with
September 11 hijacker Khalid al Mihdhar en route to a planning meeting
for the bombing of the USS Cole and the September 11 attacks in 2000.
Satellite photographs showed al Qaeda members in 2001 traveling en
masse to a compound in northern Iraq financed, in part, by the Iraqi
regime. Abu Musab al Zarqawi, senior al Qaeda associate, operated
openly in Baghdad and received medical attention at a regime-supported
hospital in 2002. Documents discovered in postwar Iraq in 2003 reveal
that Saddam's regime harbored and supported Abdul Rahman Yasin, an
Iraqi who mixed the chemicals for the 1993 World Trade Center attack...

The Iraq Al-Qaeda connection is well-documented, and hardly a "falsehood" as Moore claims.

u dont think iraq had tons of freakin time to get things out of there country...

[ThatGuy]

u dont think iraq had tons of freakin time to get things out of there country...

:werd: I love how people forget that it took us 2 years to get to the fight in Iraq, yet "Bush rushed to war".

[RJF]

u dont think iraq had tons of freakin time to get things out of there country...

:werd: Or at least bury them.

Technically, this is a WMD.

http://www.newsmax.com/images/headlines/mig25a.jpg

[mrmephistopheles]

This has nothing to do with Michael Moore in my opinion.

Hmmm.. See, I think it has everything to do with Michael Moore. I wasn't talking about the candidates and their spin doctors (I still have your Spin Doctors CD, btw.. I'll give it back ASAP.) - spin is a common thing nowadays. I'm talking about a feature-length spin film that truly borders on propagandism. Moore is the subject of my statement.. not the candidates.. I accept that there will be a certain amount of BS. The general populace is too weak-minded to handle the realities of the world. If Rummy had said 'Fuck yes, I ordered psychological ops at Abu Gharaib! That shit nets good intel!' He'd have been tarred and feathered out of office with a quickness. I understand why everyone complains so much more about Bush than Kerry... Kerry hasn't been in the national spotlight for the last 4 years, forced to deal with a major (US perspective) terror attack and wartime operations in 2 countries. It's very easy to see why Bush has so much more negative press - everyone has had 4 years to nitpick, armchair quarterback, and overanalyze his actions and decisions.

[evilimport]

"damn, hellava, sand storm this morning, eh?" <-- Kerry lovers.

[mrmephistopheles]

:werd: Or at least bury them.
Technically, this is a WMD.


That's one of my favorite image sets.. That's crazy shit.. I guess there's a whole 'platoon' of aircraft buried near that one.
I have a feeling that alot of the WMDs we can't find are buried, and only the people who arranged for them to be buried (generals and such) know where they are. I bet they killed the people that actually buried them.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Speaking of Bush- I have three pro-Bush stickers on the 240. And a rubber chicken.

Speaking of Moore- He's speaking in Del Mar tomorrow. I'm protesting against him and all America-hating libs, then going to the show on his dollar. (He paid for my ticket. If you ask, I'll tell you how.)

[DriftMonkey]

yea right in the beginning of fahrenheit 9/11 it says "for ENTERTAINMENT PRUPOSES ONLY'

[RJF]

Speaking of Moore- He's speaking in Del Mar tomorrow. I'm protesting against him and all America-hating libs, then going to the show on his dollar.

:bigok: Good for you! Make us proud.

--------------------------------------------------------
What is Kerry thinking?
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20040910/capt.sge.ihs17.100904083130.photo00.default-249x384.jpg
I wonder if lying is a sin?
--------------------------------------------------------
Priceless :D (Check out the guys shirt)
http://home.comcast.net/~richcoleman/kerryshirt.jpg

[ThatGuy]

What is Kerry thinking?
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20040910/capt.sge.ihs17.100904083130.photo00.default-249x384.jpg
I wonder if the guy behind me smells that? :fart:
Guy Behind Him: Awe Man! Johnny farted again!!:rant2:

[elevator]

so i was watching some of the debates last night and i heard bush say this little gem in response to a question about stem cell research:
"taking life to save life is a real ethical dilemna."
so taking the 'life' from cells to help the sick is not okay, but
killing living people to 'enhance' our (supposed) 'security' is kosher
i have a word for this man and it starts with a big freakin H and ends with a big freakin E (because if i were to use it it would be all in capitall letters roofles =P)
for the lazy of you out there here's a small hint:
H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E
#1 YOU are talking apples and oranges, sonny.
If an Iraqi dies as a result of the war it is absolutely NOTHING like MURDER that is necessary for stem cell research. In order for one to do stem cell research one must have aborted fetuses to get the cells from. THAT is NOT hypocracy! Get your facts straight! BTW Bush is NOT bullshit..."citizens", who claim he is, are.
#2 Regarding the fat bastard, Michael Moore:
http://www.davekopel.org./Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

[elevator]

What is Kerry thinking?
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20040910/capt.sge.ihs17.100904083130.photo00.default-249x384.jpg
I wonder if the guy behind me smells that? :fart:
Guy Behind Him: Awe Man! Johnny farted again!!:rant2:
That is great!

[tastyratz]

Personally I think were screwed plain and simple. George bush has the IQ equivalent of a salt shaker, and kerry is just a plain ass. Flip flopping isnt something that really bothers me because it really rather hear what I want to hear and it shows hes not stubborn. I believe hes a prick and my friends mother was having a discussion with me about it and aparently he lived around my parts while he was younger and he was a prick then too. I believe the president is more of a figurehead than anything else really. right now his picture is pasted next to the word america everywhere and we are represented by a big dumb illiterate chimp. Im not even gonna bother voting because i can either vote we get screwed or more screwed and i dont wanna support either of them. Quite frankly people... prepare for a 4 year shitstorm no matter what.



P.S.

"sawveerntree"
All i wanted to see is bush whisper in his collar while holding what ear "whaaats sawverrntree" while still leaning toward the mic lol

[RedlineRacer]

I am getting so tired of people bashing Bush. Back when 9/11 happened, everyone was so pissed at terrorism. They were just wanting some sort of action to be taken against it. And Bush stepped up to the plate and started showing the world that if you mess with the US and its innocent people, then you will pay. At that time, everyone praised Bush for taking action. Nothing bad was said about him. Now, when the war is an inconenience to the country, everyone moans and bitches about it. Grow up, war is always going to happen. Its inevitable. Always was, and always will be. Stop being pussies.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Fitting that the ad banner I see now reads "Thank you, President Bush."

I need to find and rasterize a great anti-Moore, anti-lib picture so I can wave that for the video cameras.

[MakotoS13]

Flip flopping isnt something that really bothers me because it really rather hear what I want to hear and it shows hes not stubborn.

yeah, it sucks having a stubborn president that stands up for what he believes in even when his own country starts calling him a jackass for DOING HIS JOB. by doing his job i meant protecting our arses.

i don't want to have to fight those douchebags in my backyard and with kerry in office that's exactly what i'd prepare for. i can take a little backwoods yokal bullcrap but bein spineless just ain't gonna cut the mustard.

eh, YOU guys are screwed. texas is the only state that has the right to secede from the union should things get too hairy. ah, the joys of once being your own country ;)

[mrmephistopheles]

MOOOOOOOI'd really rather hear what I want to hearMOOOOOOO


http://www.bulgaria.com/photos/graphics/moo.jpg

[Bill Roberts]

Bush is the only way to go. A vote for Kerry is a vote for communism.

Down with Kerry.

[elevator]

Personally I think were screwed plain and simple. George bush has the IQ equivalent of a salt shaker,
Yeah...and YOU are a REAL genius! How do you think this "salt shaker" got through Harvard? Don't be a dumb ass.

[elevator]

A vote for Kerry is a vote for communism.

Down with Kerry.
Amen brother!

[RJF]

Remember the sailors that were killed on the USS Cole four years ago today.


FOUR YEARS AGO TODAY, a Navy destroyer was making a brief port call in Aden for the purpose of taking on fuel. As was common practice during such evolutions, a small barge pulled alongside to collect garbage.

Seconds later, the barge exploded. It ripped a 40-foot hole in the side of the USS Cole, flooding two engine compartments and nearly sending the ship to the bottom of the harbor. Seventeen sailors were killed, and 37 more were wounded.

[elevator]

Remember the sailors that were killed on the USS Cole four years ago today.


FOUR YEARS AGO TODAY, a Navy destroyer was making a brief port call in Aden for the purpose of taking on fuel. As was common practice during such evolutions, a small barge pulled alongside to collect garbage.

Seconds later, the barge exploded. It ripped a 40-foot hole in the side of the USS Cole, flooding two engine compartments and nearly sending the ship to the bottom of the harbor. Seventeen sailors were killed, and 37 more were wounded.

I find it odd that when our president takes steps to prevent that kind of crap he gets hell...and they complain that he did nothing PRIOR to 9/11. Hell he was only president for 8 months PRIOR to 9/11. That bastard, Bill Clinton had 8 years to do something and he didn't. Where is the freaking logic??

[RJF]

Be Healed.....

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041009/capt.mico10210090042.edwards__mico102.jpg

Edwards Stem Cell Vision: 'We will stop juvenile diabetes, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and other debilitating diseases... When John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going get up out of that wheelchair and walk again.'


Kerry can supposedly perform miracles now...........

[MakotoS13]

yeah, i can't tell you how many salt shakers the government lets pilot 30 million dollar aircraft.


effing BRILLIANT.

oh oh oh, lets not forget the ivy league college stuff...

[SilviaNinja240]

Bush bought his way into that school, any retard with money can do that.

[citizen]

yeah, i can't tell you how many salt shakers the government lets pilot 30 million dollar aircraft.
the government does lots of stupid shit, whats your point?

btw, his job is to uphold the constitution, not disregard it (war in iraq and patriot act anyone?)

[DriftMonkey]

have u personally ben affected byt the patriot act personally .... i dont think so...it was meant to provide more fluent transition of information between departments of the government and make it easier to to get warants for terrorists. if ur not a terrorist then dont worry cuz it wont be affecting u, the liberal would like u to beleive that i will but it just assures that terrorists will be caught earlier. and the war in iraq has a purpose...saddam was a threat and we took care of him and i havent seen bin laden lately...u kno hes in hole somewhere very unhappy. Bush IS ABLE to fly a plane ...can u???? it takes a little something to be able to fly a plane.... can any retard fly a plane??????????? NO

[elevator]

Bush bought his way into that school, any retard with money can do that.
THAT is bullshit!

[elevator]

the government does lots of stupid shit, whats your point?

btw, his job is to uphold the constitution, not disregard it (war in iraq and patriot act anyone?)

That was a dumb-ass comment. The Patriot Act is for YOUR benefit as well as every other American's. If one is doing right...one will NOT be effected adversely. If you are a Islamic Jihadist, then sorry, asshole, you have a problem. Most of us have little to worry about. Those of us who have things to worry about....I could care less about your sorry asses. Move to Iraq or Afghanistan and we will be gladd to bomb your asses to oblivion!

[elevator]

Be Healed.....

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041009/capt.mico10210090042.edwards__mico102.jpg

Edwards Stem Cell Vision: 'We will stop juvenile diabetes, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and other debilitating diseases... When John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going get up out of that wheelchair and walk again.'


Kerry can supposedly perform miracles now...........

I LOVE that one!!!!

[RJF]

Bush bought his way into that school, any retard with money can do that.

So, Kerry must be as dumb as pepper-mill, since he graduated from the same school?

Just trying to be fair and balanced... salt shaker/pepper-mill :D

[Phlip]

:axe: DIE THREAD DIE!!! :rl: :rl: :rl:

[RJF]

the government does lots of stupid shit, whats your point?

btw, his job is to uphold the constitution, not disregard it (war in iraq and patriot act anyone?)

This is why the Patriot Act exists...to try and find these bastards before they do something like the school incident in Beslan, Russia.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041013-121643-5028r.htm

Or maybe you think they're just here as part of some tour group. :doh:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, why can't anyone cite any specific problems and areas of the Patriot Act that are supposedly bad. All I ever hear is that "The Patriot Act is evil". Kerry said (paraphrasing): "I agree with the Patriot Act, just not how John Ashcroft has implemented it."

Well give us details or stop using the DNC talking points and trying to scare people. :drama:

[RJF]

Seems someone in the Kerry campaign must be in the salt-shaker catagory.

http://geo.crazyfx.com/ked.jpg

Couldn't get name spelled correct and sign placement says it all.

:bowrofl:

[Phlip]

^ Shitty photochop, let it die please. The election is 3 weeks away, 2005 another 8 following that, we will all know how bad we fucked up, regardless of who we vote for, at that time.

[tastyratz]

damn I didnt think the salt shaker comment would really stick like that lol. and yea it is true when your daddy was president before and your just as rich then obviously its easy to buy your way through it. anyone remember billy madison? R-O-K and yes thats a relevant comparison. bush can barely make a complete sentence i have no faith in his competancy as a human nevermind a president. yea hes got balls and he went in and blew shit up but any hick can run around hitting people with a bat it doesnt take a large amount of brains... only balls. i didnt like him before 9/11 and i still dont like him whats it take to take down the terrorist leaders from afar? military... bombs ... high tech weaponry of the sorts.... whats it take to almost take down an american president? A PRETZEL. however i mean we are all allowed our own opinion on things and by no way do I go all out kerry, i wouldnt vote for him... I just think bush is the greater of 2 evils... IMHO. i do agree though maybe we should let this thread die and just do what we do because political threads can REALLY get messy fast...

[SilviaNinja240]

So, Kerry must be as dumb as pepper-mill, since he graduated from the same school?

Just trying to be fair and balanced... salt shaker/pepper-mill :D

Believe it or not, some people are smart that go to that school.
You are using the "since he's got a SR20, he must be a drifter" debate technique ;)

[SilviaNinja240]

This is why the Patriot Act exists...to try and find these bastards before they do something like the school incident in Beslan, Russia.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041013-121643-5028r.htm

Or maybe you think they're just here as part of some tour group. :doh:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, why can't anyone cite any specific problems and areas of the Patriot Act that are supposedly bad. All I ever hear is that "The Patriot Act is evil". Kerry said (paraphrasing): "I agree with the Patriot Act, just not how John Ashcroft has implemented it."

Well give us details or stop using the DNC talking points and trying to scare people. :drama:


Beslan is an entire different situtation than what we're faced with. The Russian government already has "patriot"-like acts in place.
I don't see how a Big Brother type system would fit America, last time I checked they called this place "the home of the free" not the home of the watched

[DriftMonkey]

sorry buddy but u've been being monitored since before the patriot act in the 1980's.....u like to think u werent but u were

gotta love leno

The Secret Service has announced it is doubling its protection for John Kerry. You can understand why — with two positions on every issue, he has twice as many people mad at him.
- Jay Leno

[sykikchimp]

this thread is a perfect example of how modern republican ideals are based on pessimism, and the fear of change, and the unknown. It is the basis for all their arguments. Fear is likely the greatest motivator of action. They are afraid that somehow giving Gays the right to marriage will affect them, or that opening our arms to countries will show our weaknesses, etc. The entire party focuses on making this fear very apparent in our everyday lives. Every attack they produce on Kerry is ALWAYS a twisting of the truth in an effort to scare you into voting for their candidate.

Bill, sorry to pick on you but your comment about "a vote for kerry is a vote for communism" is a perfect example of this close minded emotionally driven scare tactic. And pretty much anything that RJF posts.

Democratic ideals are more about progressive change, responisibility and honesty. Optimism that things can and will get better if we're willing to accept responsibility for our past mistakes. I'm not saying that this how any of you are, but many of your posts exemplify this.

This fear drives us away from everyone and everything. Even our communities are no longer the interactive arena's they once were. I for one have no discernable relationship with my neighbors. Kids don't play outside anymore. Because of this seperation in our communities crime is higher, high school drop out rates are rising, etc.. Day to day personal interactions have become more and more coarse. Our communities are very much a microcosum of our govt., and our place in society. We have cut ties with country after country, and even today we are continually losing the trust of the entire world. There was a time when our country was very respected in the world, countless countries would come to our aid at only a suggestion of the need for help. And Terrorism was not even a part of our vocabulary.

Gaining the respect, and admiration of the world is something that will help thwart terrorism. Do you think if france's intelligence today hears about a plan to attack a US location, that they will share that info? I didn't think so.

Bush doesn't recognize this. His view is that liberty, and democracy throughout the world is the only way. Well news flash.. People are different. Different policies and programs work for different cultures. It is not our place to up root the ways of others, and force them to become our friends. We are the Bully of the world at the moment. We tell ourselves.. We have friends! Problem is our friends are not our friends because of a healthy give and take relationship. It's because we pay them to be our friends.

Ignoring the reality that we are making MORE enemies than we had before is simply ignoring growing dangers, and expecting them to go away. We are "at war with terrorists".. well, I don't believe you can fight a war against ideals. And thats what this is. It's a war on other people ideals. The muslims have been doing it for 100's of years. There is NO end.

In any good relationship there is communication, compromise, and compassion. Forcing other countries to become democratic nations is none of the above, and literaly spits in the face of 100's of years of a cultures growth and experience. Now I'm not saying that Saddam's regime was better left alone, but I don't think it was our place to free those people. I think it was there place to free themselves. If you hate it so much, leave or begin a rebellion. That's what we did. If they ASKED for help, then yes, we should have stepped in.

I think removing Saddam from power was something we had to do, because we brought it on ourselves through past political policy errors.

Please understand this is not an attack. Meerly a description of the division between ideals, using my own thoughts as an example. We are all allowed to have our own thoughts and ideals without being "sheep" right?

[bmarley5780]

Kerry = terrorism

[SilviaNinja240]

Your argument = stupid

[Andrew Bohan]

Your car's English = no good

[KA24DESOneThree]

Read up on what the Patriot Act can and cannot do: http://www.factcheck.org/article259.html

How about Kerry's 24% attendance at the Intelligence Commitee Hearings? http://www.factcheck.org/article241.html

Please go to www.factcheck.org and read through the archives. It'll show you who's wrong on both sides.

[RedlineRacer]

The republicans are fearful. And They definately don't want gay marriage because they are afraid it may affect them. They are against gay marriages because it is WRONG! Republicans stand behind their morals and beliefs and democrats for the most part don't have either of those. And a vote for kerry is a vote for communism. All the democrats want is a government program for everything. They don't want you taking a shit without their knowing. What does that sound like??? COMMUNISM!

[MakotoS13]

emotionally driven?
kerry is the one beggin for the minority vote with bleeding heart generic answers. that sap wouldn't know originality if it slapped his momma wtih a fifty pound fish.

[SilviaNinja240]

The republicans are fearful. And They definately don't want gay marriage because they are afraid it may affect them. They are against gay marriages because it is WRONG! Republicans stand behind their morals and beliefs and democrats for the most part don't have either of those. And a vote for kerry is a vote for communism. All the democrats want is a government program for everything. They don't want you taking a shit without their knowing. What does that sound like??? COMMUNISM!

You obviously don't know much about the world works. If you listened to the debates Kerry stated again and again, he's not going to induce government programs that forces people to do things they don't want. I think people who are homophobic are hilarious, out of all the things to be scared of I'd be more worried about WMDs than two dudes or chicks

[MakotoS13]

just because you think it'd be sacriligious for gay folks to marry doesn't make you homophobic. i think its wrong and ya don't see me headin for the hills when a hairdresser walks through office.

[Modern Angel]

just because you think it'd be sacriligious for gay folks to marry doesn't make you homophobic. i think its wrong and ya don't see me headin for the hills when a hairdresser walks through office.


Yeah, and just a few decades ago folks thought it was wrong for black people to marry white people. Does that mean that bi-racial marriages should be illegal then because that's what some people believe? No. The gay marriage thing is just the same. (and you can't say that it's different because the Bible says so... belief in the Bible is just that - a belief. The Bible is NOT the Constitution of the United States no matter how much some people would like you to think otherwise.) How does two gay people who care and love each other so much that they decide to get married affect you? Do they force you to sit and watch them marry? No. Do they force you do anything? No. Hell, Lord knows that probably 90% of the time you wouldn't even know that you were looking at a married gay couple.

This country is founded on freedoms for all people regardless of race, sex or religion. Trying to make something illegal simply because it's what YOUR faith believes forces your belief system onto other people. Do unto others as you would have done unto you. Just as you wouldn't want some Muslim folks passing laws to force your wife to constantly cover her body and face, gay folks don't want to be deprived of marriage rights either.

I know that for some people it might be a hard concept to grasp but, surprisingly, often times your personal beliefs are not the same as other people's beliefs. But, if everyone decides to not be an asshole about it and truly cares about their fellow human beings then it's sometimes possible for everyone to get along peacefully. :)

[KA24DESOneThree]

But the question is... why do homosexuals have to marry? Can they not simply enter a union with all the privileges of marriage just without the name? We're just arguing semantics; rights are not involved here. Who gives a flying crap if a homosexual union is not called marriage? Not the gays I've talked to. They just want equal rights and the ability to be recognized as more than boyfriends or girlfriends.

[RJF]

Bush-hater Michael Moore is registered to vote in two states, which is illegal.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0628041moore1.html

[ThatGuy]

I have no problem with Gay Unions. I'll gladly vote for them as soon as 1 Women impregnates(sp?) another, or a homosexual male gives birth. Until then it will still be wrong in my mind. It's not a matter of the Bible saying it wrong, it's a matter of natural selection.

[RedlineRacer]

You obviously don't know much about the world works. If you listened to the debates Kerry stated again and again, he's not going to induce government programs that forces people to do things they don't want. I think people who are homophobic are hilarious, out of all the things to be scared of I'd be more worried about WMDs than two dudes or chicks

Do you not realize by now that Kerry will say anything to get elected. Whatever the american people want to hear, then he will support it.

[Phlip]

Bush-hater Michael Moore is registered to vote in two states, which is illegal.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0628041moore1.html
Now that I think about it, I went to High School, played baseball with this kid name Michael Moore all those years ago... I bet Mike registered to vote too... I bet there is no less than 10 individuals named Michael Moore Registered to vote in EVERY state (except Alaska and Hawaii, but they don't fuggin count anyway)


I have no problem with Gay Unions. I'll gladly vote for them as soon as 1 Women impregnates(sp?) another, or a homosexual male gives birth. Until then it will still be wrong in my mind. It's not a matter of the Bible saying it wrong, it's a matter of natural selection.
And while I will somewhat concede that what you say is correct, I will say that I am open enough to allow anyone to practice whatever it is they do however they see fit. I ain't gay, muslim, democrat or republican, but make room for the rules of subjectivity... I have MY reasons and will assume that anyone on earth has enough of a conscious mind to know what they like or how they choose to live. If gays wanna marry, let em marry, fuck it


Do you not realize by now that Kerry will say anything to get elected. Whatever the american people want to hear, then he will support it.
Do you realize by now that Bush will say anything to scare the american people into NOT voting for Kerry. Whatever Kerry says is a compromise to the "libel campaign against malicious intent"

[mrmephistopheles]

Now that I think about it, I went to High School, played baseball with this kid name Michael Moore all those years ago... I bet Mike registered to vote too... I bet there is no less than 10 individuals named Michael Moore Registered to vote in EVERY state (except Alaska and Hawaii, but they don't fuggin count anyway)

HAR.
The director Michael Moore (that one guy.) is registered to vote in two states. He's not talking about separate Michaels Moore.

[Phlip]

HAR.
The director Michael Moore (that one guy.) is registered to vote in two states. He's not talking about separate Michaels Moore.
Prove it

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters

[mrmephistopheles]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0628041moore1.html

Eat me.

[elevator]

http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/ebc_images/celsius-cover.jpghttp://images.eaglepublishinginc.com/c6494_full.jpg

[FastBack 240]

Michael Moore is a joke and it sucks that he has to live so close to me.

[elevator]

Michael Moore is a joke and it sucks that he has to live so close to me.
I agree, but that would go for being on the same planet! I'd would like to be alone with the bastard for about 15 minutes.

[sykikchimp]

I swear.. why the hell does every political discussion I read end up talking about Michael fucking Moore..

I'm going to kill him just so I don't have to hear his pathetic name anymore.

[RJF]

Iraq update....the real truth from a soldier

http://www.loveourtroops.us/whatloveourtroops.htm

Support our troops!

---------------------------------------------------------------
Meanwhile......

Babies found in mass grave......

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3738368.stm

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/GraveEvidence-X.gif

[Phlip]

I swear.. why the hell does every political discussion I read end up talking about Michael fucking Moore..

I'm going to kill him just so I don't have to hear his pathetic name anymore.
Because Michael Moore hates America because he wants people to not vote for Bush... He wants us to lose the libel campaign against malicious intent and for that he is a communist, haven't you been reading this thread that should have died a week ago? I'm disappointed in you Charlie.

... not that any of this will matter, Skeletor is mad that someone let the cat outta the bag (pun intended) about his daughter being gay. He will soon see to it that the world ends as a result of the embarrassment rendered to his family as a result.


http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0628041moore1.html

Eat me.
Read that, I am exercising my right to skepticism, I need authentication of this claim.

[FastBack 240]

Iraq update....the real truth from a soldier

http://www.loveourtroops.us/whatloveourtroops.htm

Support our troops!


Great Vid RJF. :rawk:

[sykikchimp]

Iraq update....the real truth from a soldier

http://www.loveourtroops.us/whatloveourtroops.htm

Support our troops!


I could make a vid just like that except with men walking down the street with machete's and machine guns threatening to kill people for voting.

....you take the good with the bad.

[RJF]

... not that any of this will matter, Skeletor is mad that someone let the cat outta the bag (pun intended) about his daughter being gay. He will soon see to it that the world ends as a result of the embarrassment rendered to his family as a result.

Cheney's daughter was not outed by Kerry or Edwards (in the VP debate), but by bringing that into their responses to questions, it was a blatant attempt to embarass the Vice President and to try and send a subliminal message to the ultra-conservatives in the Republican party... "Cheney has a gay daughter...how can you support him....Vote Kerry"

No matter what Kerry/Edwards say, it's all politically motivated to get votes.


Now they're starting to plan "pre-emptive" attacks to claim voters being stopped from voting.

http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/election/article/0,1299,DRMN_36_3256347,00.html

Anything to get their power back.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Read this editorial:
"An Edwards Outrage

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, October 15, 2004; Page A23

After the second presidential debate, in which John Kerry used the word "plan" 24 times, I said on television that Kerry has a plan for everything except curing psoriasis. I should have known there is no parodying Kerry's pandering. It turned out days later that the Kerry campaign has a plan -- nay, a promise -- to cure paralysis. What is the plan? Vote for Kerry.

This is John Edwards on Monday at a rally in Newton, Iowa: "If we do the work that we can do in this country, the work that we will do when John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going to walk, get up out of that wheelchair and walk again."

In my 25 years in Washington, I have never seen a more loathsome display of demagoguery. Hope is good. False hope is bad. Deliberately, for personal gain, raising false hope in the catastrophically afflicted is despicable.

Where does one begin to deconstruct this outrage?

First, the inability of the human spinal cord to regenerate is one of the great mysteries of biology. The answer is not remotely around the corner. It could take a generation to unravel. To imply, as Edwards did, that it is imminent if only you elect the right politicians is scandalous.

Second, if the cure for spinal cord injury comes, we have no idea where it will come from. There are many lines of inquiry. Stem cell research is just one of many possibilities, and a very speculative one at that. For 30 years I have heard promises of miracle cures for paralysis (including my own, suffered as a medical student). The last fad, fetal tissue transplants, was thought to be a sure thing. Nothing came of it.

As a doctor by training, I've known better than to believe the hype -- and have tried in my own counseling of people with new spinal cord injuries to place the possibility of cure in abeyance. I advise instead to concentrate on making a life (and a very good life it can be) with the hand one is dealt. The greatest enemies of this advice have been the snake-oil salesmen promising a miracle around the corner. I never expected a candidate for vice president to be one of them.

Third, the implication that Christopher Reeve was prevented from getting out of his wheelchair by the Bush stem cell policies is a travesty.

George Bush is the first president to approve federal funding for stem cell research. There are 22 lines of stem cells now available, up from one just two years ago. As Leon Kass, head of the President's Council on Bioethics, has written, there are 3,500 shipments of stem cells waiting for anybody who wants them.

Edwards and Kerry constantly talk of a Bush "ban" on stem cell research. This is false. There is no ban. You want to study stem cells? You get them from the companies that have the cells and apply to the National Institutes of Health for the federal funding.

In his Aug. 7 radio address to the nation, Kerry referred not once but four times to the "ban" on stem cell research instituted by Bush. At the time, Reeve was alive, so not available for posthumous exploitation. But Ronald Reagan was available, having recently died of Alzheimer's.

So what does Kerry do? He begins his radio address with the disgraceful claim that the stem cell "ban" is standing in the way of an Alzheimer's cure.

This is an outright lie. The President's Council on Bioethics, on which I sit, had one of the world's foremost experts on Alzheimer's, Dennis Selkoe from Harvard, give us a lecture on the newest and most promising approaches to solving the Alzheimer's mystery. Selkoe reported remarkable progress in using biochemicals to clear the "plaque" deposits in the brain that lead to Alzheimer's. He ended his presentation without the phrase "stem cells" having passed his lips.

So much for the miracle cure. Ronald D.G. McKay, a stem cell researcher at NIH, has admitted publicly that stem cells as an Alzheimer's cure are a fiction, but that "people need a fairy tale." Kerry and Edwards certainly do. They are shamelessly exploiting this fairy tale, having no doubt been told by their pollsters that stem cells play well politically for them.

Politicians have long promised a chicken in every pot. It is part of the game. It is one thing to promise ethanol subsidies here, dairy price controls there. But to exploit the desperate hopes of desperate people with the promise of Christ-like cures is beyond the pale.

There is no apologizing for Edwards's remark. It is too revealing. There is absolutely nothing the man will not say to get elected."

Yeah, it's long. But if I didn't copy/paste, you wouldn't be able to see it at all.

Oh, by the way, Moore is the guy who said, "The dumbest Canadian here is smarter than the smartest American." and "The dumbest Brit here is smarter than the smartest American." He also said, "F*ck small businesses, f*ck them all."

[sykikchimp]

simply one of 54-quintillion such partisan editorials on either candidate. I could post up similar negative stories on Bush, but it would only serve to lengthen an already painfully close minded debate.

And for the Comment on Cheney's daughter being a lesbian, that is absolutely ludicrous. It sounded to me as if Dick, and his wife were outright ashamed of their daughter. Like saying.. "Bush understands what it's like to have a daughter, ..who is white..," and bush responding that it was blaspemous to say such a thing. It's just more of the right-wing OMG GHEY!?!?!: GET AWAY FROM MEEZZ!!!111 SICKO! You would have thought he called her a pedofile, or a rapist. WTF?! Being gay is not a sensitive subject in this day and age. It's a fact of reality. Learn to live with it, or STFU.

Kerry was not attacking Bushes far-right wing. He was reeaching out to the gay community saying, "I will not forake your rights."

[KA24DESOneThree]

Wrong. This points out the truth. Kerry and Edwards are claiming, through some bizarre logic, that people will magically be cured by their election. In reality, they don't have the answers. There are stem cells up for grabs even now. They're just selling some magic panacea, contents unknown.

By the way, Kerry and Bush have the EXACT SAME STANCE on gay marriage: they're both against it. Kerry just doesn't support a Consitutional amendment against it. Kerry and Edwards are playing politics by bringing out Mary Cheney's name and trying to convert those who don't know about the Veep's lesbian daughter to the Dems' side. They're trying to point out "OOH OOH HYPOCRISY!!! OOH OOH!"

[sykikchimp]

Who the hell doesn't know that Cheney's daughter is gay? EVERYONE KNOWS. HE SAID IT HIMSELF.

[citizen]

all of this only shows how messed up our government really is. lets get back to the basics, vote for the constitutionalist party.

[chokudoriS13]

Look at Cuba - they're still driving around 50's cars because they can't get anything new.

Actually, its only American cars that are stuck in the 50's... There are plenty of Russian LADA, GAZ and Moskvitch variants all over Cuba and lots of European imports. Many of the American cars are actually powered by engines that came out of Russian imports (due to the embargo, obviously). I can only imagine how slow a '57 Chevy must be with a Fiat-derived Lada 4-banger pumping out 60hp on its best day :D...

[mrmephistopheles]

Ever seen LADA drift videos? CRAZY.

[elevator]

Yep Bush is Bullshiite, but guess what...anyone in the country who thinks that is outnumbered.

What he thinks....
http://sig.systemsilence.com/bushuncensored.gif

[240Stilo]

Haha...Why did you bring this one up? As stated before everybody thinks they're right so it will go on forever.