The true equilizer......

[AceInHole]

Something that I just brought up in another thread was that there are more high powered KA's than there are SR's in the US.  One of the polls also showed the KAT getting more votes than the SR... (which really doesn't mean much though).  The point is: if the SR is so easy to tune, and so strong, why hasn't there been a great SR in the US to match what's been done with built KA's??  
First of all... some will argue that there are mega HP SR's in Japan....  my argument against that is that there are no performance KA's in Japan, and if there were (and there wasn't an extra tax on the larger engine) then it might have an even stronger backing than the SR.  It's also pretty agreeable that the SR and a Turbo KA are about as equally obtainable in the US, and for the same price, can be built equally strong.  
So, why have there been legends like Ty's stock internalled 320hp KA, and Duy's 10 second street car... without an SR to match??  Maybe it's that they're so common that they aren't noted??  I'd like to know.
Aside from the mechanical differences and availability of each engine, since the weaknesses and strengths have already been argued over, why isn't there a 10 second SR prowling the streets in the US??  Or do I just not know about it??

[Drifting Ricer]

<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':eh:'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sneaky.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':pissed:'>
stop it the horse is dead man! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/nervous.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':nervous:'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hmmm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hmmm:'>
Let it died in peace.

[AceInHole]

no way.... I'm just wondering where all the high powered SR's are.... &nbsp;hopefully someone knows of one that's in a street car making over 400hp. &nbsp;

and nice abuse of the smileys &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

[anthony240]

One word: Support

There is not much aftermarket support for the SR20DET here in the US because it is a Japanese engine. Japanese engines need Japanese parts that come from Japan &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':eh:'> . The same for the KA, it is not considered a race engine or whatever, worthy to tune. I don't even know if it is available overseas. It most likely is, but because of the distinction of the SR, it is overshadowed. And unlike the SR, it is not built in the aspect of it to handle turbo, even tho it can.

Even tho there aren't that much high-powered SR's here, there are plenty in Japan.

[tnord]

i would think that people in the US typically buy the SR for the "JDM Spec" factor. a good turbo kit can be built for the KA for what, 3 grand? Where does that get you? i don't really know, but i'm pretty sure it's well over 200hp. a SR redtop swap will run you a few thousand more, to get the same or less hp. &nbsp;while the SR might be able to be built up to greater hp levels, it seems that the KA can get to not quite as but still more than enough hp levels for thousands less. so it seems that US people that are looking for power (performance) would just turbo the KA, while the carpet queens go with the SR. &nbsp;not to mention the availability of parts and service for the KA vs the SR. my assumptions and or reasoning could be way off, this is the first time i've thought about this topic, and this is the solution i came up with. &nbsp;

i do think ace poses an interesting question though.

[zephyr]

I think another factor might be that it's a lot easier to find a shop to install a turbo on your car than to find a shop to swap an engine that they have to have shipped to them from japan...there is also the fact that a turbo setup can be obtained in stages such as building up the engine and buying the parts in pieces, whereas an sr swap has to be done all at once. &nbsp;I personally think the immediate gains from a turbo swap are more evident as well, despite the fact that it may be easy to build up an sr, but only once you have it in. &nbsp;205 hp isn't that hard to achieve for 5 grand in a ka. &nbsp;You could almost get that without a turbo...
Finally I think a lot of people are kinda worried about parts availability as well as just the fact that it isn't the engine they bought the car with.

[White240sx]

I can think of a few SR cars that are in the low 12's. Greaser's car will probably be in the 11's soon; Yury shouldn't be far behind either. The SR market is larger by far, but only a handful of people in the US have full access to it (and their intentions don't really lie in drag racing), where as the KA market is pretty much grass roots home built stuff. Also the lack of decades of domestic racing experience with the SR (Sunbelt, Malvern, Rebello, JWT) prevents you form being able to pick up the phone and call one of the Nissan specialty shops and have all your questions answered. And as a side note, the S-chassis cars aren't the only cars that are running the SR. Some of the best examples you will find are going to be in dimes(McKinney as a projected 9 second SR example) and roadsters.

Just give it time; I predict by the end of this year there will be a few Texas SR’s stirring some things up as well as a few SoCal cars that are really going to stir the community. (So get busy with your KA-T! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> )

[DrDubbleB]

Ok....I didn't read all of the replies yet, but I am going to respond, then go read them, and edit as necessary. &nbsp;Here's my response though. &nbsp;Notice that the KA came in the American 240's and the SR came in the Japanese Silvia's. &nbsp;Now, we all know that they are the same car, just with a different power plant, and name (and other slight, but unmentionable differences).
The reason you hear about the powerful KA's is because that is what we have had to work with in the US, from the beginning. &nbsp;They have had more time to develop these high powered KA's then the SR's. &nbsp;Now, on the other side of things, in Japan they have built powerful and fast SRs probably for the reasons that you mentioned (lower taxes) and also because it came standard in their Silvias.
Have no fear though, soon I will be getting my SR, and have plans to be pushing over 400RWHP.

[DrDubbleB]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ Mar. 06 2002,11:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">a SR redtop swap will run you a few thousand more, to get the same or less hp. while the SR might be able to be built up to greater hp levels, it seems that the KA can get to not quite as but still more than enough hp levels for thousands less. so it seems that US people that are looking for power (performance) would just turbo the KA, while the carpet queens go with the SR.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Well the redtop isn't really as expensive as you might think. The most expensive redtop installation that I've heard of cost $5,000. S14's average around $5K including install, and S15's, now that's where the cash would go right down the drain. Now, you're looking at around $3K for the turbo kit itself, not including installation, which I have been told is less than an engine (of course), so let's put that around $400 (being optomistic). That's about $1600 less than an SR swap would cost, and the SR swap could be as low as $3500 w/ a redtop, putting it at about the same cost as the turbo kit. Not only that, but more than likely the SR would be slightly lower mileage, but that's no guarantee. I think that the $1600 is money well spent on the new engine.

[AceInHole]

Would everyone agree that replacing pistons on a KA isn't extremely hard, and would actually place it in some level stronger than the SR?? &nbsp;Strength seems to be less of a concern, but the stronger part of the issue... &nbsp;(The KA might be stronger.... iron is definitely stronger than aluminum).
As for the aftermarket and support for the KA?? &nbsp;I'd go so far as to say that it's no better than US support for the SR. &nbsp;
There's been the SE-R forums since the dawn of the SR, and their tuning has pretty much matched the tuning of the 240sx crowd, AFAIK. &nbsp;The simple fact that super high HP SR's have been done by big names in Japan would make one assume that someone in the US could fairly easily copy that setup, which makes me think that it's easier for an SR to follow a high HP route.
As for price... Yury quoted me at $7000 for an S14 SR at around 300hp (I think I had mentioned all the goodies I was looking at.....) That was just a simple figure thrown between two guys talking over engines though... although I'd say it sounds about right. &nbsp;I'd also think that for $7000 you'd put a KA at 300hp (FMax Stage 2 for $5k, + ignition, + exhaust, + cams... basically Ty's setup). &nbsp;This is just an example.... but I'd say both engines cost about the same, and are commercially available (you'll have something of a warranty with either route, unlike a junkyard build up or a self installed SR). &nbsp;
Just some thoughts on it......

[240sxtreme]

"I think that the $1600 is money well spent on the new engine." I've never heard of anyone getting a new SR20. every SR20 (that I've heard of or seen) has been used.


pretty much the reason I haven't allowed myself to seriously consider the SR20 is emissions, and the fact that it's a imported engine. I mean, I don't know anyone in the portland area...well, I've met 2 guys, one seemed ok, the other knew nothing and was taking advice on tuning from Honda boys. so, what if my internet connection goes down and my sr20 breaks down? who's gonna help me find the problem and fix it? or how am I gonna order a part? I just think it'd be a lot more work to purchase and maintain a SR20...where besides the awesome JDM badging...it's really not that much better. Also, not every state will allow you to have a SR20 in your car, so if you live in one of the crappy states like me...what happens when you're caught? you spend the money to swap back to your KA? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

unless you live in a state with easy emissions and no visual testing, and you have others there who know the SR20 to help and teach you....a KA24DE-T just seems to be more practical.(I hate using that word though)

I just think that money for money, the 24DET would be better...but I'm not putting anyone down for wanting or having a SR20..it's an awesome engine that I respect...and every now and then I do get that itch to order me an SR20...

if it'd be a perfect world I'd have two cars.....a fastback and a coupe, both s13s, one with the SR20, and one with the KA.

[sspikey]

well were getting there with high power sr s

http://www.apexser.freeservers.com/apexser.html

[geeaj]

Um, you guys need to research your options more extensively.

Nissan engine builders like Rebello or Top End can build you a ka23e or de, whichever strokes your "shaft", for between 4k and 5k. This motor will already push over 200hp at the crank n/a.

This includes port and polish work, mild cam (which is actually beneifical to for a turbo setup since wild cam profiles are a no..no.), balancing of bottom end, forged pistons, and dyno time. Throw another 3k into a turbo setup and you can push the same numbers as T.Y., if not more. The KA is overlooked because of the JDM craze. If the racers in Japan were going this route, then this would be the ADM approach to turbo?

I am not trying to start a flame war for all you SR guys, but I'm presenting some facts here that dispell all this KA vs SR crap. The end result will be same; the path taken is different.

[tnord]

while hp numbers might be very similar between the two, i find it very hard to believe that the personality will be the same as well. we all know that in it's current state, the KA isn't a big fan of revs over 6000, while in the SR, that's where the fun is.

back to my cost estimates, i'm still standing by my assumption that an engine swap costs a couple thousand more than tossing on a turbo. just think about it.......you're getting a whole freeking engine compared to a turbo and some pipes. i refuse to believe that labor costs will be cheaper for an engine swap than adding a turbo. the only way these two projects could cost the same is if you took the most expensive turbo setup to a shop with really high labor, and a high mileage engine to a shop with high school kids doing the work. unless a credible person can give me very credible evidence, i'm sticking to what i said. but if i had to pick, i'd rather have the SR ignoring cost factors.

[DrDubbleB]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (240sxtreme @ Mar. 07 2002,10:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"I think that the $1600 is money well spent on the new engine." I've never heard of anyone getting a new SR20. every SR20 (that I've heard of or seen) has been used. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
You didn't read my full post, it's a new engine to you, which is why I called it new, let me rephrase, it's money well spent on a "different" engine.

[boosteds14]

<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'> &nbsp;sr <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>
<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> ka <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[ca18guy]

Actually it looks like a swap is as cheap if not cheaper then a turbo kit, let's compare some prices you could find on the net....

Unstable-Hybrids (http://www.unstable-hybrids.com/sr20detinstall.html) Will install a SR20DET for $4050.

A FMAX Stage 1 kit all buy itself not installed costs $3999 at Rollhard.com (http://www.rollhard.com/240sx.htm) or the NSport which costs $3300 not installed. So the price for over the counter turbo kits looks more then having a SR installed, of course they give you more power then having a stock SR put in, so it's a trade off.

[sspikey]

imo if you have an old engine or an engine with LOTS of mileage on it swap. if you have low mileage turbo. but thats just me.

[DrDubbleB]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (geeaj @ Mar. 07 2002,11:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Nissan engine builders like Rebello or Top End can build you a ka23e or de, whichever strokes your "shaft", for between 4k and 5k. This motor will already push over 200hp at the crank n/a.

This includes port and polish work, mild cam (which is actually beneifical to for a turbo setup since wild cam profiles are a no..no.), balancing of bottom end, forged pistons, and dyno time. Throw another 3k into a turbo setup and you can push the same numbers as T.Y., if not more.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
But for the same money, you would easily be able to swap, and get an SR running the same numbers...I mean, you are talking $5K (the average cost of a swap) and then another $3K. &nbsp;I'm not trying to argue, but just show you, you are proving my point, that the whichever route you go, you will be spending about the same amount of $$$, and personally, I think that money is better spent on an SR.

[Drifting Ricer]

You I thought the horse was dead put here we go agian.

As a perspective SR owner. I have reasons why I want a SR.

1.True a KA-T would be cheaper. But my KA would not handle a turbo at 129K miles. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/nervous.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':nervous:'>

2.To get a KA-T I would have to find (a good shop) to rebuild my engine, build the engine to handle boost and them go turbo. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'> God know how much $$$ that will cost me?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>??

3.True T.Y is handling 300HP on stock internals. But there is double side to that. He bought that car right of the show room floor.:notify:

As for the SR it can easily handle 300HP on it's stock internals. We seen many examples on these forums.
Yeah the engine it's a JDM engine but we can steal some parts of the USM SR20DE. Right now the SR is the cheaper way for me to go. The SR is TURBO engine. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'>

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Drifting Ricer @ Mar. 06 2002,1:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">2.To get a KA-T I would have to find (a good shop) to rebuild my engine, build the engine to handle boost and them go turbo. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'> God know how much $$$ that will cost me?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>??</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
It's cheaper than you'd think.....

and SSpikey... i've seen 400+ HP SR's on stock internals in SE-R's (the USDM engine isn't really THAT bad). &nbsp;The thing is, it still isn't the 600+ HP firebreather that pushes 10sec 1/4 miles in showcar condition.

I don't really care much SR or KA... just wondering why the SR hasn't gone beyond the KA if it really is such a great engine. &nbsp;In all reality, I'd like an FJ20ET &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'>

[MyFirst240SX]

I gotta say something.........
I just Found a Front Clip for a S13 for 1600. &nbsp;ive been quoted 850 to install one.
Thats 2450 SR route
Now, for my 150K SOHC KA and its tranny to be rebuilt,turbo kit, installation what cost more.
of course I would recieve more power upfront with a KA-t Becuase u are Building up a engine, but a nice "low milage" 205hp and 203 torque will do fine for a month or two.

[saga240]

well as for me.. im going to keep my KA.. &nbsp;i believe mine is pretty blessed.. &nbsp;and it runs VERY strong.. &nbsp;but i know going fast either way is going to be extremely expensive.. &nbsp;

right now.. &nbsp;im estimating the custom turbo kit i want will run me about 6000.. &nbsp;this matches the quote that Grant got from Mckinney to install a redtop with FMIC.. i believe.. right?.. &nbsp;

so yea.. im just trying to create my own backyard turbo set up.. &nbsp;and its going to cost me about 6000.. but hell.. ill be pretty damn fast.. &nbsp; <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/nervous.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':nervous:'>

[sykikchimp]

I think the appeal of the SR to me is the ability to build it up into a really nice show car engine, with lots of quality aftermarket parts. &nbsp;Not having to have everything custom made is a nice luxury. &nbsp;

Of course the fact that a KA-T is just a badass setup, always draws me back. &nbsp;Kind of incognito. &nbsp;The rest of the world looks at the 240 as a sporty looking econo box with no performance potential. &nbsp;I know because I was once that person, as I'm sure almost ALL of you were at one point. &nbsp;So to have the same "econo" engine be a kickass firebreathing monster raping their's is just pure satisfaction. &nbsp;

Personally I feel the SR is a better motor from the Factory b/c of it was built for turbo. &nbsp;However, If nissan had put good pistons in the KA, it would be superior to the SR. &nbsp;But comparing the two engines is difficult because they have different personalities &nbsp;Now if they had made the CA in a 2.2 liter block kinda like a destroked KA24, then that would've been a God like engine. &nbsp;High rev's, and High displacement, with a beautiful head/valve design, and an Iron block. &nbsp;Of course we don't live in a perfect world.

I would say the SR is still the Sleeper engine here in the states. &nbsp;There is a lot of hype in the Hardcore Import scene, or if your a nissan fan, it common knowledge. &nbsp;The Ricers w/dough have got it big here yet, so parts are still not being brought here for it. &nbsp;Availabilty of the High performance parts is whats holding it back.

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sykikchimp @ Mar. 06 2002,5:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now if they had made the CA in a 2.2 liter block kinda like a destroked KA24, then that would've been a God like engine. High rev's, and High displacement, with a beautiful head/valve design, and an Iron block. Of course we don't live in a perfect world.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Well.. if the Z22 crank fits into a KA... then you'd have a fully counterweighted KA22DE(T) which would theoretically be able to rev much higher than the KA24DE(T). &nbsp;Imagine that??

(that said... I really need a spare KA to start working on....)

[whateverjames]

i've heard the z22 crank would make it a 2.3L, and other things would need to be changed like the legnth of the intake runners, cam. etc. &nbsp;here's a question. when an SR guy hits about 180,000 miles, would he rebuild it? and add a bigger turbo? if so, what was holding him back from rebuilding the KA and adding a nice ball bearing t3/t4? &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':blush:'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hmmm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hmmm:'> is it so they can say "i have an SR!" at club meets? by the time you talk to one of the SR importers, order it, get the engine shipped and have it installed, you could have had a fast KA for less, and sooner. i may be wrong, these are my thoughts, hell i may get an SR who knows, this dead horse needs another ass woopin if we want to add to the FAQ section &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'>

[Grant]

most of the SR cars, are made for the track, not the drag strip, and another thing, if you want to compare the fastest car that ran in the US with an SR, look at the JUN silvia, pulls the 1/4 mi in the less than 9 sec. ( but then again its a drag car). for the normal guys they dont feel the need to run that high of a boost and that much power.

[Grant]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (saga240 @ Mar. 06 2002,3:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well as for me.. im going to keep my KA.. i believe mine is pretty blessed.. and it runs VERY strong.. but i know going fast either way is going to be extremely expensive..

right now.. im estimating the custom turbo kit i want will run me about 6000.. this matches the quote that Grant got from Mckinney to install a redtop with FMIC.. i believe.. right?..

so yea.. im just trying to create my own backyard turbo set up.. and its going to cost me about 6000.. but hell.. ill be pretty damn fast.. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/nervous.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':nervous:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I believe it was S14 blacktop, just ask Grumpy. I'd go KA over SR no matter what, I'm reaching 90k mi and I dont think i want to waste my time building up another KA and what not. there are just an abundance of SR20dets, and parts are easy to find, for people who dont know much like me, it may be easier to use an sr than deal with the problems associated with a KA-T I'm hoping to get about 240hp to the wheels or so, on a reliable, stock turbo engine. any more than that and I might as well get a different car.

[Tuck&Poke]

well personally i like the ka better than the sr. &nbsp;all i need is dohc and im good. &nbsp;im definatly going to turbo my ka regardless of miles since new pistons and internals will be part of the deal. &nbsp;i like the fact that the ka has .4 extra litres to spool up &nbsp;that turbo. &nbsp;most people will say ah .4 liters big advantage...yeh.......it is. &nbsp;who cares about multi port your mothers ass. &nbsp;plus theres always emissions and since im moving to cali for colledge (hopefully) im gonna have to be carb legal (oh greddy make that kit already &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'> ) thats mho.

[geeaj]

Talk to the any of the track proven engine builders, such as sunbelt or rebello, they will say that the ka is hands down (whether in de or e configuration) then the the SR. You can't beat the extra .4 liters of displacement and that stout iron block with 5 main girdles on the bottom end. Nissan has been building these engines for decades. For you kiddies and ricers out there, it is the latest iteration of the L-series motors, which powered the 510, zcars, and the early silvias.

For a street motor, the KA would be best. On the street, there is no replacement for displacement and torque. For the track, road race course where engine rpm will be above 5000rpm most of the time, then the SR would have the advantage. For the street, you don't want to have to reve the shit out of the motor to make power. But I know, most of you kids aren't racing semi professionally, or even anything remotely close. The KA is hands down best for the street/weekend warrior setup. Talk to any of the guys like Demon, Adam H, or T.Y, from Freshalloy, they will have some dyno sheets to dispell this SR vs KA issue.

So what if you shell out 4000-5000 to get a PROPER sr install, the bottom line is that you still have a USED motor, one where the prior history isn't known. Yes, its built for turbo, but 30K can wreck alot of havoc on a motor, especially if it comes from overseas. You don't know what that mofo has been thru.

For an extra 2000-3000 grand, you can have your KA rebuilt to handle turbo, and make more reliable power (even if you keep it NA). I for one, will be taking the N/A route, just to be different. Rebello already has my order in for a smog legal 220hp at the crank N/A monster that will last over 100K.

I think i've had too much Privilege tonite...Hope I didn't piss off too many ricers

[mbmbmb23]

I plan on peicing together my own turbo setup, and with the money I save (instead of buying a brand new in-box turbo setup), I will rebuild the KA..and tweak it (port, polish, balance). &nbsp;In peicing my own kit together, I will purchase the peices of the kit one at a time (the only way I can afford it).

Seems to me that people buy the SR's, in part, to not have to hassle with "hunting" for that perfect turbo setup. &nbsp;Its easy to just buy a clip, and transplant....its a no-brainer if you have the $$$...you just open your wallet and people do all the work for you (import, swap). &nbsp;But, when peicing together a turbo KA, there are alot of options to think of (size of turbo, custom piping, correct compression, ECU reprogram, etc). &nbsp;

As far as I can tell, most people who do the SR swap dont rebuild the SR before swapping it in....because the engines usually have 30-40K miles on them, so why fix it if its not broken? &nbsp;Well...thats why SR's have lower HP in the states....people dont rebuild them(and upgrade in the process)...because if they were they types of people who wanted to mess with rebuilding something, they would have done it to the KA and turboed it. &nbsp;Id rather attempt to rebuild a KA than an SR (unless you have an SR service manual in english I could borrow....and an SR rebuild kit..with pistons, etc.....lying around)

Personally I would like to have the peice of mind that my engine (rebuilt KA) has ZERO miles on it....instead of having something thats in mystery condition. &nbsp;Sure the KA has lower revs, but thats alright with me. &nbsp;I drove my friends 95 civic with a 1.8 liter GSR motor in it, and it felt awkward to have to rev that high 5k+ to tap into the powerband. &nbsp;Like a previous poster mentioned, revving high in daily driving traffic with an SR just doesnt sound too practical. &nbsp;
Also, I think there is a bit of pride involved with rebuilding and turboing your KA. &nbsp;Its a nice feeling to gather all the parts, rebuild, and install. &nbsp;Plus, showing people that the KA can INDEED kick ass....thats part of what owning a 240SX is about........owning something most people overlooked and undervalued when it was still being produced. &nbsp;Also, Id think the exhaust note from a 2.4 liter is better than a 2.0.

Heres what I think it boils down to when choosing a KA-T or SR swap (at least partly):

How much does the owner know about engines..and fixing them themselves? &nbsp;Does the owner fix it (or rebuild it) themselves, or do they pay someone like Unstable Hybrids to do everything for them (SR, RB, etc).

How big a deal is JDM to you?

Does the owner have "connections" to obtain SR parts AND credible info (SR service manual??)

It the SR emissions legal in your area?




all of this is IMO BTW,


M

[DrDubbleB]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (geeaj @ Mar. 07 2002,11:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Talk to the any of the track proven engine builders, such as sunbelt or rebello, they will say that the ka is hands down (whether in de or e configuration) then the the SR. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I read the first line of this and already found major faults...being this:
I guess Tomei, JUN and NISMO don't count.........NISMO isn't really an engine builder, but Tomei and JUN sure as hell know how to build them. NISMO I included because everyone knows who they are, and they support the SR, not the KA.

I also don't like the way you were talking to everyone like they were inferior to you, that won't get you much respect...at least not from me.

[DrDubbleB]

Well, mbmbmb23, if you are really interested, I know where you can buy an FSM for the SR20DET, and I also know where you could download one for free, why pay if you don't have to right? &nbsp;Let me know if you are interested.

[White240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ Mar. 07 2002,1:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In all reality, I'd like an FJ20ET <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Demon makes a good point about those.....but it still wouldn't stop me from playing with one. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[Grant]

In the end it is all a matter of preference, and driving styles. In reality both cars are sufficient to use on the street (as the street is NOT made for you to race on, unless you are looking for trouble). Some prefer the high revving, some prefer the low end. If people go by the fact that there is no replacement for displacement, then get an LS-1 fitted in the car, there's a lot of power for ya. In my opinion, there is no replacement for displacement except technology.

In the end once again, each to his/her own as it is a known fact that these are both great motors with lots of potential.

[AceInHole]

Actually, in terms of the KA being an L-series decendant... it's really closer to the NapZ engine, which in turn supposedly spawned the CA, KA, and the SR (actually, in that order IIRC). &nbsp;If this is true, then the SR really does hold the "higher technical merit badge", as it was developed noticeably later than the other two. &nbsp;This said, it's easier to see that the KA bears more of a resemblance to the L-series, but really, what's the point if the L-series is past antiquated??

As for streetability... I'd say KA, anyday. &nbsp;On the street for regular driving you're not going to want to rev around too much, opposed to simply carrying through the gears at lower RPMs. &nbsp;This point makes it obvious who has the upper hand.

In terms of track racing.... one could argue that an N/A application is better... and in this case, the KA24E would win (yaay for you SOHCer's) in my opinion, mostly from the availability of individual throttle bodies/ side draft carbs that bolt right to the stock head. &nbsp;Not much can beat that for good ol' NA tuning. &nbsp;(If you're a REAL Initial D fan... you'll want to get your hands on a carbed KA24E!!! &nbsp;Then you can guinea pig it and fit a Z22 crank in there [which WOULD make a KA22E... &nbsp;the Z22 has the same bore x different stroke than the KA] and have that 11k RPM N/A monster engine.) &nbsp;I've seen the chart for a KA24E at 244hp..... look ma! no turbo!!

So.... basically, both engines still have ups and downs, but still no real advantage per application (or so I'd say), so there's no excuse for a high HP SR to exist..... so still, the question remains: why isn't there one on US streets??

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (White240sx @ Mar. 07 2002,02:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ Mar. 07 2002,1:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In all reality, I'd like an FJ20ET <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Demon makes a good point about those.....but it still wouldn't stop me from playing with one. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
what... like how if you break an oil pump or something you're basically screwed for months/ years looking for a replacement?? &nbsp;naaah.... that doesn't worry me. &nbsp;LoL

[S13Grl]

I LOVE this f'n thread!!!

You all bring up very intelligent points, I must agree. As many of you know, I'm also pro-KA, but do respect the SR.

The initial question of the thread has been answered. The aftermarket support for the SR is just not as developed here. However, you do have to admit that there are plenty of shops around who carry all kinds of crazy JDM-stuff. The whole "JDM" thing is very overrated and is widely developed in the states, you gotta admit. So if you really knew what you were doing and put your mind to it... you could bulid yourself a nice SR. But you'll still have an aluminum block. You'll still have no low-end power. You'll still have to pay more money for parts. You'll have to wait for them to get here from overseas. You had to get your motor from overseas. Yeah, you'll swap out the pistons and the rods and their bearings, you'll get nice new piston rings, and a bigger, ball-bearing turbo and a larger front-mount-intercooler, and you'll probably lower the compression and get a better fuel system, and you would have done that with your KA as well, but at least you got that factory turboed car, man... "Factory Turboed". "Factory Slow". "Factory Ugly". "Factory Heavy". "Factory Sloppy".

Now I'm just talking pure shit here, so I'm gonna stop myself... but... I do thank you for creating this thread, &nbsp;Ross-look-alike. And you guys have some very intelligent points and I'm glad to see that there's some very intelligent people on this board.

Finally, don't get me wrong please. I don't mean to trash on the SR. Just as James said: for all I know, one day I might end up having an SR. But you gotta give respect where it's due.

I love KAs <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':love:'>

[S13 Passion]

even though i like my KA, i would have to go for the SR for the same reasons as Drifting Ricer. &nbsp;my car has 157,000 miles &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

[crazycuban]

Heh...

Kinda ironic to me...while the JDM crazy makes it trendy to get the SR, it also seems like its become the trend for a lot of people recently to trash the SR.

The point is, whether SR, CA, or KA, neither engine is better. &nbsp;They all have their strong and weak points. &nbsp;The power curve on the CA beats the shit out of the KA or SR power curve - that thing is PERFECTLY linear. &nbsp;The KA beats either in terms of torque, and the strength of the block. &nbsp;The SR beats either in that its the only one thats proven (not in the US, in the world) to be a true monster.

You can say all you want about the KA having more horsepower than the SR. &nbsp;I really couldn't care less. &nbsp;Formula 1 engine builders used 1.5 liter turbo engines to make over 1000 hp - would I put this in a street car? &nbsp;Never. &nbsp;The highest stock bodied KA car I've seen runs high 10's. &nbsp;The highest stock bodied SR car I've seen runs 8's. &nbsp;Civics with 650 hp run 9 second quarter miles. &nbsp;Supras with near 1000 run 9 second quarter miles.

Same goes with the KA - wow, lots of low end torque. &nbsp;Thats great. &nbsp;With that much torque, why didn't Duy get a time better than the high 10's? &nbsp;Hmmm...maybe that torque is useless on the street? &nbsp;Maybe it only causes wheelspin with that much low end torque? &nbsp;People talk about the KA being a much better "street" engine than the SR. &nbsp;But if you're talking about high power, I'd rather have an engine that will build the power to the top than one that has all of its power down low. &nbsp;Already when the torque hits on my SR the wheels break loose.

I didn't put in an SR because its "JDM". &nbsp;I didn't pay 5000 bucks to get it installed. &nbsp;You guys make pretty big generalizations. &nbsp;I installed it myself, with help from friends, of course. &nbsp;I paid a good deal of money, but that was because the engine I got. &nbsp;If I would have done a red top, I could have had 200 rwhp (and actually, only ONE KA turbo kit claims to make over 200 rwhp - the others measure in crank hp) for 3500 bucks. &nbsp;2000 for the engine, 1500 for an exhaust, boost controller, and intercooler. &nbsp;

The SR is the engine for JDM ricers.

The KA is the engine for trendy people trying too hard to be different.

[White240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ Mar. 08 2002,12<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">what... like how if you break an oil pump or something you're basically screwed for months/ years looking for a replacement?? naaah.... that doesn't worry me. LoL</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
He made a point about how many do you see running around with more than 500hp. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

The oil pick-up will probably be broken anyway, as it seems that the deep sump is notorious for denting easily.

But other than that you've got a great platform for power (relatively inexpensive too). A .63 A/R T-3 on the exhaust side and a 7.5:1 C/R means all that you need are a T04E compressor, injectors (and electronic compensation), FMIC, and piping (intercooler and exhaust), and you are good for 350hp+. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

[whateverjames]

how about the fact duy had an open differential and stock cams designed for daily commuting?

[Drifting Ricer]

I don't know why geeaj is acting all high and mighty at some point he didn't know shit about cars. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sneaky.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':pissed:'> He must be a pro race <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sigh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':rolleyes:'> car driver. His post was fine until he started making fun of people who want to get into motor sports. "kiddies"

Even so, when you bought you're car geeaj was it out of the factory? I'm more then sure it had more then 30k miles in it. You don't know how the last owner treated you're car? So it's really the same thing. I don't why there is much SR/DRiFTING bashing going on around these forums. T.Y and ADAM are both KA-T oweners so there opinions will one sided <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hmmm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hmmm:'>


By the way we don't need FA king size attitudes here. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>


Edit typos.

[Fuzzy Ewok]

Hmm..here's my thoughts:

I don't see an end to this discussion, ever, which is cool--it's just one of those things. &nbsp;It's fun to read and talk about anyway. &nbsp;But we can all agree on one thing, right? &nbsp;There aren't too many things sweeter in life than rolling up next to a cocky kid in his new V8 whatever and wasting him with your 4cyl...whether it's the SR or the KA! &nbsp; <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>

For me, I'll turbo my KA since it's got really low miles, and I'm partial to the engine. &nbsp;Just a personal preference, though

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (White240sx @ Mar. 07 2002,6:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ Mar. 08 2002,12<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">what... like how if you break an oil pump or something you're basically screwed for months/ years looking for a replacement?? naaah.... that doesn't worry me. LoL</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
He made a point about how many do you see running around with more than 500hp. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

The oil pick-up will probably be broken anyway, as it seems that the deep sump is notorious for denting easily.

But other than that you've got a great platform for power (relatively inexpensive too). A .63 A/R T-3 on the exhaust side and a 7.5:1 C/R means all that you need are a T04E compressor, injectors (and electronic compensation), FMIC, and piping (intercooler and exhaust), and you are good for 350hp+. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
LoL... well... how many FJ's do you see going around???
In comparison, maybe it's odd that I've actually seen more SR powered cars than KA turbos....

The other odd thing is that the stroker kit for the FJ makes an FJ24(D)ET... nice how the legends are 2.4L <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Drifting Ricer @ Mar. 07 2002,7:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't why there is much SR/DRiFTING bashing going on around these forums.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Not necessarily bashing... more of questioning...

but hey, if you can't stand the heat....

[AmericanBornSilvia]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (crazycuban @ Mar. 08 2002,4:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The SR is the engine for JDM ricers.

The KA is the engine for trendy people trying too hard to be different.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Says it all right there, yes we are all lose. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[Grant]

Well it is very true that all motors have their advantages, and equally capable. and I'm not into this JDM trend bullshit. Now if we all had SR20s and only japan had KAs, is everyone now going to do a KA swap?

You can love SR's you can love, KA, but it makes you biased against one or another.

I actually like both. I think if you want to go hardcore, KA is better. If you want something decent, reliable and relatively fast out of the factory, SR is enough.

I choose SR because I do not have that much knowledge about turboed cars, and fact of the matter is that a car just comes more reliable already turboed from the factory. (unless you really know your shit extremely well to tune it all right the first time). Sure it can be slow and sluggish, but compare that to you ka24de that you have yet to turbo, and, well, its by far better, with more torque <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> .

But then again with the SR in you also have that KA sitting there waiting to be built up while the sr is in your car.. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>
Then you just keep build and swapping until you max both out. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

By the way, T.Y. owned his 240sx since day one, so yeah, it makes it easier for him to go ka-t, because he knows the history of that motor. who knows what how the the 75000 miles on my car was driven by the previous owner?

Well, I'll have to wait till chris speedalliance turboes his car with 125k mi on the clock.. hehe i wanna see what that KKK k27 turbo can put out... now if he blows his motor.. (hopefully not), Then I'll be thinking about KA-T

[MyFirst240SX]

I have seen several dyno charts for KA-T's pushing over 200 rwhp. &nbsp;I thought SR's had 205 Hp to the crank? am i wrong on that one?

[BadMoJo]

I think both are great engines. I will be going Turbo KA though. jus cuz. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> But I still plan on using an SR down the road, just not in my S14. I wouldnt mind getting an old 510 and dropping an SR into it, or an old Datsun 2000 roadster. But KA-T all the way for my S14. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':cool:'>

*Both are sweet, its up to personal choice on which road you take...if not both <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

[White240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ Mar. 08 2002,12:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The other odd thing is that the stroker kit for the FJ makes an FJ24(D)ET... nice how the legends are 2.4L <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
The first FJ motor was in a Group B rally S12 and it was specified as a 300hp FJ24E. So not only are legends 2.4 liter, they are also N/A. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

The Australian crowd is still pretty hardcore about their FJ's. A lot of racing cars there use the FJ20, whether it be drag, short oval or dirt track. And speaking of Australian drag racing, there is a twin S/C'd 10,000rpm FJ20 powered rail that runs low 7's there. http://www.datnet.org/new/videos/fjrail.avi &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[sykikchimp]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AmericanBornSilvia @ Mar. 09 2002,12:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (crazycuban @ Mar. 08 2002,4:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The SR is the engine for JDM ricers.

The KA is the engine for trendy people trying too hard to be different.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Says it all right there, yes we are all lose. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Umm... &nbsp;not only is that statement ignorant, but also incorrect. &nbsp;How can someone be trendy, and different??? &nbsp;You contradict yourself. &nbsp;The KA is for people that like a challenge with good results. &nbsp;The KA is harder to get running turbo'ed. &nbsp;It is Definately more of a challenge to tune, and it's more likely something will be done incorrectly and you'll blow something up. &nbsp;But when push comes to shove, and you have laid out the time and money and done the labor yourself, you will have a beast that you can truly be proud of, and will more than likely nose out any SR with the same money. &nbsp;Espesially if you go about the way I plan too, and Ace. &nbsp;Peice it together. &nbsp;So your statement about the KA is incorrect. &nbsp; Should be:

The KA is the engine for the 240sx (not 180sx) enthusiest.

and you statement about the SR is right on.

[crazycuban]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sykikchimp @ Mar. 09 2002,10:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AmericanBornSilvia @ Mar. 09 2002,12:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (crazycuban @ Mar. 08 2002,4:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The SR is the engine for JDM ricers.

The KA is the engine for trendy people trying too hard to be different.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Says it all right there, yes we are all lose. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Umm... not only is that statement ignorant, but also incorrect. How can someone be trendy, and different??? You contradict yourself. The KA is for people that like a challenge with good results. The KA is harder to get running turbo'ed. It is Definately more of a challenge to tune, and it's more likely something will be done incorrectly and you'll blow something up. But when push comes to shove, and you have laid out the time and money and done the labor yourself, you will have a beast that you can truly be proud of, and will more than likely nose out any SR with the same money. Espesially if you go about the way I plan too, and Ace. Peice it together. So your statement about the KA is incorrect. Should be:

The KA is the engine for the 240sx (not 180sx) enthusiest.

and you statement about the SR is right on.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
How can someone be trendy, yet different? &nbsp;I would say that it's trendy to be different right now.

Well, as I have an SR, and I don't consider myself a ricer, then maybe you could have figured out that that whole statement was sarcastic. &nbsp;I personally respect both engines very much, and was only saying that because people saying the KA-T is better were implying that the SR is for JDM ricers...I don't actually think the KA-T is for trendy assholes, I just said that to show how ridiculous it is to say that the SR is for JDM ricers.

And what you just said is totally ridiculous. &nbsp;I don't know what you run in your car, but say that the statement about the SR is right on? &nbsp;Show some respect. &nbsp;My SR powered car, and a whole lot of peoples SR powered cars are much faster than yours.

"When push comes to shove, and you have laid out the time and money and done the labor yourself, you will have a beast that you can truly be proud of"...

Yeah, and thats exclusive to the KA and all, considering that my SR install took place in my garage...but I can't be truly proud of it or anything, because its so easy compared to the KA-T.

The KA-T more of a challenge to tune? &nbsp;More of a challenge to run right, maybe, but I'd say that the reason the SR isn't as fast in the states is because people don't have tuning experience like they do in Japan.

Yeah, KA-T peeps need to get over their big "no replacement for displacement" dicks and realize that there are a lot of SR powered cars that can beat the shit out of and KA-T car you see out there; &nbsp;SR peeps need to get over their big "JDM" dicks and realize that just because its torquey and relatively low-revving doesn't mean that its a bad engine - I haven't seen an SR built in the states that can beat the fastest KA-T.

Get over yourselves...any way you go, you'll have a great engine, that suits your purposes. &nbsp;Don't tell me that the KA-T is better, that it generates more pride - I built my car with my two fuckin hands, I'm proud, and I knew I used the engine that was best for me - not the one that was best for aceinhole or sykikchimp. &nbsp;I like high end hp over low end torque - so therefore, I'd rather have the SR.

[geeaj]

Wow, a cornacopia of information and strong arguments. You guys make me randy...*rubs his nippies*..

Just seeing if the moderators are working on weekends.. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sigh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':rolleyes:'>

[DrDubbleB]

Well, most people in this thread didn't say one was better than the other, they just argued for a particular motor. &nbsp;I know that a properly built KA-T would be just as good as a properly built SR, but for what I want, and the application that I am going to use it for, I do think that the SR is better IN MY OPINION. &nbsp;
sykikchimp, since you said the comment about the SR was right on, and the KA-T is for true enthusiasts, I could argue the other way around, but I won't. &nbsp;That does make you a hipocrit though, everyone on this board is an enthusiast, regardless of what engine they have. &nbsp;I bet you wouldn't say that a CA is ricer. &nbsp;Why? &nbsp;It's from Japan, it's JDM...OHHHH I know why...because it's not popular, and popular means rice. &nbsp;Bull Sh1t. &nbsp;You are obviously missing the whole point of what ricer is, it not only goes with the car, but the driver of the car. &nbsp;It's not just stickers on a Honda, or an unfunctional wing, but it is the mentality that the owner has. &nbsp;But go on thinking what you think, I'm sure there is no changing what is already stuck in your mind.

[sykikchimp]

I said the KA is for 240 enthusiests.... &nbsp;As in proud of what they're USDM car had to offer, and willing to spend the time and money to let it truly become what it can.. &nbsp;I never said that if you didn't tune your KA then your not really a car enthusiest. &nbsp; &nbsp;Not saying that JDM is bad, and that the SR is bad. &nbsp;I like the SR. &nbsp;VERY much. &nbsp;I may one day own one. &nbsp;It takes a lot of Blood, sweat, and tears just like any other Engine that you would build into a true work of art. &nbsp;And people here (in america) have JUST as much experience tuning engines as anybody. &nbsp;Americans just typically tune V8's. &nbsp;The tuning principles are always the same. &nbsp;More air, More Fuel, more strength. &nbsp;Period.

By the way, I don't see Rice as a negative term... &nbsp;Many "Ricers" as some of you would call them, have more pride in their cars than many people that claim to be enthusiests. &nbsp;I can respect and enjoy the benefits of ANY modification, or car. &nbsp;The stereo-typing needs to end.

And Drbubble if you had read my earlier post.. &nbsp;I complented all engines, and said specifically that the CA with slight mods would be INCREDIBLE.

BTW - I did not catch your sarcasm. &nbsp;sorry, I was tired. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sleeping.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':zzzz:'> &nbsp;as you can see I wasn't trying to offend you by calling you a ricer, as I don't consider it negative.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (crazycuban @ Mar. 08 2002,4:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Heh...

Kinda ironic to me...while the JDM crazy makes it trendy to get the SR, it also seems like its become the trend for a lot of people recently to trash the SR.

The point is, whether SR, CA, or KA, neither engine is better. They all have their strong and weak points. The power curve on the CA beats the shit out of the KA or SR power curve - that thing is PERFECTLY linear. The KA beats either in terms of torque, and the strength of the block. The SR beats either in that its the only one thats proven (not in the US, in the world) to be a true monster.

You can say all you want about the KA having more horsepower than the SR. I really couldn't care less. Formula 1 engine builders used 1.5 liter turbo engines to make over 1000 hp - would I put this in a street car? Never. The highest stock bodied KA car I've seen runs high 10's. The highest stock bodied SR car I've seen runs 8's. Civics with 650 hp run 9 second quarter miles. Supras with near 1000 run 9 second quarter miles.

Same goes with the KA - wow, lots of low end torque. Thats great. With that much torque, why didn't Duy get a time better than the high 10's? Hmmm...maybe that torque is useless on the street? Maybe it only causes wheelspin with that much low end torque? People talk about the KA being a much better "street" engine than the SR. But if you're talking about high power, I'd rather have an engine that will build the power to the top than one that has all of its power down low. Already when the torque hits on my SR the wheels break loose.

I didn't put in an SR because its "JDM". I didn't pay 5000 bucks to get it installed. You guys make pretty big generalizations. I installed it myself, with help from friends, of course. I paid a good deal of money, but that was because the engine I got. If I would have done a red top, I could have had 200 rwhp (and actually, only ONE KA turbo kit claims to make over 200 rwhp - the others measure in crank hp) for 3500 bucks. 2000 for the engine, 1500 for an exhaust, boost controller, and intercooler.

The SR is the engine for JDM ricers.

The KA is the engine for trendy people trying too hard to be different.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
People trashing the SR??? That's not a trend. It's just a bunch of folks that refuse to buy into the hype you bought into.

Powerband: well, the KA beats the CA and SR in power and torque normal aspirated. Then if you boost all engine at 7psi, well, guess what, the KA will still beat the CA and SR. Why? Displacement... Nothing more, nothing less. Pure physics.

highest stock bodied, non full racing SR car runs 10s... Not 8's. Jun's car is a race car. Period. Duy's former car is a stock bodied, non full racing car. It's a street car. It is stupid to compare a street car against a stockbodied race car... dumb.

As for civics and Supras running 9's with different hp, well, haven't you heard of weight??? Power to weight ratio? Guess not.

Why didn't Duy's car get better than 10's? 3,000lbs as raced with full stereo? Street car trim? stock transmission? stock head? stock cams!!!! Which part of that is hard to imagine. His engine build is very straight forward and simple with piston and rods swapped.

Highend power, easy to get with a KA. Get rid of it's narrow stock cams... Simple as that... The engine, intake manifold, and cams are all setup for midrange torque and power.

And as for: "Already when the torque hits on my SR the wheels break loose." Well, if that happens, you need to tighten down your lug nuts... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> &nbsp;Or get better tires... Heck, I can break the tires loose on a geo metro... Does that make the Geo powerful? No, it just means it has crappy tires...

For someone who generalizes quite a bit, you are complaing about others who are generalizing... sheesh..

As for the KA being for the trendy folks... Whatever... Its more like it's for the folks who are original and don't buy into hypes. We don't try too hard to be different. We just do it, because it makes much more sense...

As for TY's 300hp, get it straight... it's 365hp @ 6,000rpm or [email protected] 6,000rpm with 329ft-lb @ 4,300rpm. All that with the following invested:
$2,800 - used stage 2 system
$200 - used ecu to replace the one from the original car
$350 - HKS Twinpower ignition unit
$100 - Magnecore wires
$365 - Nissan Motorsport cams
$600 - A'PEXi GT Spec Exhaust

As for fresh off the showroom floor, what does that have to do with the power level of the motor? Isn't all cars at one point fresh off the showroom floor??? Silly folks....

As for built KAs, there is now a handful that are 400rwhp level...

As for lower powered SR in the US, booo to those who claim there hasn't been much development time... It's like crying the grapes are sour because you couldn't reach them... Silly... By claiming that, you basically slap the SE-R folks in the face...

For years, the argument for the SR folks is how the SR has this and that from this and that in aftermarket support, and now within the past couple of months when the higher powered KA's are showing up, folks are now crying that there isn't much support for the SR... Whatever... Crybabies... Whatever happen to those folks who always says there are tons of support for the SR? There are definetly more support... It's just folks are being silly and trying to find an excuse to defend why their beloved SR can't make the "hype" horsepower...

For years the KA camp had to fight the hype of the SR. The KA was overcasted by the shadow of the SR's achievement and no one really took a look at it... Now, the KA camp is well established, and the SR folks are scrambling... Who would've thought.... too funny...

SR: Silly Ricers...
KA: Knowledgable Assholes

TonKA Truck Power!!!!

[DrDubbleB]

We all have our preferences...and on that note I will bring up a few points:
The displacement arguement has nothing to do with physics whatsoever...sorry to burst your bubble if you have a Doctrate in Physics, but that assumption is 100% wrong. It is a general rule, but not a law of physics, if this were true, every engine with more displacement would be more powerful than every engine with less, no acceptions.

When people talk about Horse Power on these boards, it is safe to assume that they are talking about RWHP, so no, it's TY's car is not 365hp, it's 318, and those of us who know generally what his car is around, but not exact figures, say 300hp.

I think what crazycuban meant by the statement </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The KA is the engine for trendy people trying too hard to be different.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> is that the KA is for people that go against all trends. Like if snowboarding is in, it's not cool anymore, so they can't do it, or if trance suddenly gets recognized, it's mainstream crap, so they can't listen to it.

We all know there are high powered KA's roaming the streets in the states, and we all also know that there are higher powered SR's running the streets over in Japan. The fact that it hasn't been done here yet is not really relevent because it still remains that it can be done.

I could argue so much more, but what's the point, it's getting nowhere, so I'll end it here....for now...

Sorry if my thoughts seemed to jump all over the place, I had so much to say, and it is 5<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>0 in the morning.

[MK]

I think a lot of perspective has been lost along the way.

The US is the only country that uses the KA engine in an S13 or S14 chassis, the rest of the world uses CA18 or SR20 engines.

So, what you have here is a product that is tuned, fiddled and fucked with to meet popular local demand. US people want cubes under the hood, they didnt want 2L or 1.8L 'rice burner' because its not as much of a wang extension or something.
(Im not even going to touch on psychology and engine displacement any further, but you know its true everywhere else as well except maybe in places still powered by an ox <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> )

Basically, stick forced induction on any engine, fuck with it for long enough and it'll produce more power. Im sure theres a whole horde of willing, able and maybe even highly competent people in the USA who can specialise in making an KA24 engine go quick, chances are, they could do the same to just about any other n/a block out there as well given the incentive. Plus the plethora of spares merchants ready to sell a variety of go-fast bits to suit a KA24 engine.
-However-
Its a niche market though, no one outside the US is going to bother doing up a KA24, its not a motor people have a high opinion of when we can just import an SR20DET, CA18DET, RB20/25/26DETT, VG30DETT or V8 Lexus engine thats better stock than a modified KA24 for less money. Heck, I can get a 4L toyota quadcam V8 for about 1000US buckaroos with gearbox and ecu on my doorstep within 5 days! For another $3000 I reckon I could fit the fucker in an S13 with an engineers compliance <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> heheheh!

To make a long story short though. For as long as S13's and S14's have had KA engines there have been SR and CA engines in them. But, while the rest of the world was making bits for those engines the US has continued on its own little line of tuning. There is a huge range of parts for the SR20DET engine, really huge and quite affordable. My flatmate's 180SX had a CA18DET engine in it, had the internals replaced with SR20DET parts and a T04 stuck on it and a whole shitload of other bits. 411hp later what did we end up with? A car that was barely driveble on its 19psi of boost. Not an easy car to live with something a lot of people dont consider when modifying a vehicle.
My car came with an SR20DET engine in it, why would bother getting a KA engine fitted with a turbo, built in the US, shipped here for a trully horrendously exorbitant amount of money, then I might have to spend a week working out what the fuck goes where again fitting the bastard. It would probably cost the same as getting a JUN head, cams and forged pistons, and we all know who'd be laying down the smack then....
(but I digress, I have not the money anyway <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>)

Its a dead-beaten story people, give it up. Throwing enough money and talent at an engine and it will go fast regardless of its heritage. What more can you say?
As long as your having fun with your car, and these cars are built to play with then who gives a toss what the guy next door is doing, chances are he's an utter bastard like me and will kick your teeth in for looking at them funny <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Guest @ Mar. 10 2002,7:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (crazycuban @ Mar. 08 2002,4:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Heh...

Kinda ironic to me...while the JDM crazy makes it trendy to get the SR, it also seems like its become the trend for a lot of people recently to trash the SR.

The point is, whether SR, CA, or KA, neither engine is better. They all have their strong and weak points. The power curve on the CA beats the shit out of the KA or SR power curve - that thing is PERFECTLY linear. The KA beats either in terms of torque, and the strength of the block. The SR beats either in that its the only one thats proven (not in the US, in the world) to be a true monster.

You can say all you want about the KA having more horsepower than the SR. I really couldn't care less. Formula 1 engine builders used 1.5 liter turbo engines to make over 1000 hp - would I put this in a street car? Never. The highest stock bodied KA car I've seen runs high 10's. The highest stock bodied SR car I've seen runs 8's. Civics with 650 hp run 9 second quarter miles. Supras with near 1000 run 9 second quarter miles.

Same goes with the KA - wow, lots of low end torque. Thats great. With that much torque, why didn't Duy get a time better than the high 10's? Hmmm...maybe that torque is useless on the street? Maybe it only causes wheelspin with that much low end torque? People talk about the KA being a much better "street" engine than the SR. But if you're talking about high power, I'd rather have an engine that will build the power to the top than one that has all of its power down low. Already when the torque hits on my SR the wheels break loose.

I didn't put in an SR because its "JDM". I didn't pay 5000 bucks to get it installed. You guys make pretty big generalizations. I installed it myself, with help from friends, of course. I paid a good deal of money, but that was because the engine I got. If I would have done a red top, I could have had 200 rwhp (and actually, only ONE KA turbo kit claims to make over 200 rwhp - the others measure in crank hp) for 3500 bucks. 2000 for the engine, 1500 for an exhaust, boost controller, and intercooler.

The SR is the engine for JDM ricers.

The KA is the engine for trendy people trying too hard to be different.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
People trashing the SR??? That's not a trend. It's just a bunch of folks that refuse to buy into the hype you bought into.

Powerband: well, the KA beats the CA and SR in power and torque normal aspirated. Then if you boost all engine at 7psi, well, guess what, the KA will still beat the CA and SR. Why? Displacement... Nothing more, nothing less. Pure physics.

highest stock bodied, non full racing SR car runs 10s... Not 8's. Jun's car is a race car. Period. Duy's former car is a stock bodied, non full racing car. It's a street car. It is stupid to compare a street car against a stockbodied race car... dumb.

As for civics and Supras running 9's with different hp, well, haven't you heard of weight??? Power to weight ratio? Guess not.

Why didn't Duy's car get better than 10's? 3,000lbs as raced with full stereo? Street car trim? stock transmission? stock head? stock cams!!!! Which part of that is hard to imagine. His engine build is very straight forward and simple with piston and rods swapped.

Highend power, easy to get with a KA. Get rid of it's narrow stock cams... Simple as that... The engine, intake manifold, and cams are all setup for midrange torque and power.

And as for: "Already when the torque hits on my SR the wheels break loose." Well, if that happens, you need to tighten down your lug nuts... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> Or get better tires... Heck, I can break the tires loose on a geo metro... Does that make the Geo powerful? No, it just means it has crappy tires...

For someone who generalizes quite a bit, you are complaing about others who are generalizing... sheesh..

As for the KA being for the trendy folks... Whatever... Its more like it's for the folks who are original and don't buy into hypes. We don't try too hard to be different. We just do it, because it makes much more sense...

As for TY's 300hp, get it straight... it's 365hp @ 6,000rpm or [email protected] 6,000rpm with 329ft-lb @ 4,300rpm. All that with the following invested:
$2,800 - used stage 2 system
$200 - used ecu to replace the one from the original car
$350 - HKS Twinpower ignition unit
$100 - Magnecore wires
$365 - Nissan Motorsport cams
$600 - A'PEXi GT Spec Exhaust

As for fresh off the showroom floor, what does that have to do with the power level of the motor? Isn't all cars at one point fresh off the showroom floor??? Silly folks....

As for built KAs, there is now a handful that are 400rwhp level...

As for lower powered SR in the US, booo to those who claim there hasn't been much development time... It's like crying the grapes are sour because you couldn't reach them... Silly... By claiming that, you basically slap the SE-R folks in the face...

For years, the argument for the SR folks is how the SR has this and that from this and that in aftermarket support, and now within the past couple of months when the higher powered KA's are showing up, folks are now crying that there isn't much support for the SR... Whatever... Crybabies... Whatever happen to those folks who always says there are tons of support for the SR? There are definetly more support... It's just folks are being silly and trying to find an excuse to defend why their beloved SR can't make the "hype" horsepower...

For years the KA camp had to fight the hype of the SR. The KA was overcasted by the shadow of the SR's achievement and no one really took a look at it... Now, the KA camp is well established, and the SR folks are scrambling... Who would've thought.... too funny...

SR: Silly Ricers...
KA: Knowledgable Assholes

TonKA Truck Power!!!!</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
No offense (well actually yes take offense I don't care) but you sound like an idiot. &nbsp;I don't even know were to start, first the sr20de in Japan (since thats what were comparing to) makes 160 HP n/a doe's that make it better to turbo then the KA24 now? &nbsp;Strap a T25 or T28 turbo and boost it to 7 psi and see how much HP the KA24 makes then, not really fair comparing a T3/4 turbo kit to a T25 or T28 now is it? You kinda lose me with your rambling about tires and shit, but "As for fresh off the showroom floor, what does that have to do with the power level of the motor?" Have you ever bought a used car? Come on, you never know how it was treated or mantained, if he had a used clunker that was abused your telling me that would'nt factor in to wether it breaks down? &nbsp;My used ca18 blew on me and it only had 77,000 miles, and I was running stock! And what the hell doe's this mean "For years the KA camp had to fight the hype of the SR. The KA was overcasted by the shadow of the SR's achievement and no one really took a look at it... Now, the KA camp is well established, and the SR folks are scrambling... Who would've thought.... too funny..." What is this some backwoods city with rival gangs fighting each other? Grow the fuck up, anything is better then stock, neither hold's anything over the other. &nbsp;hell I have a stock ca18det and I'm still probably faster then 95% of this forum, cause most people don't even do anything to there cars. Oh here's a pic for you....

http://www.neonspeed.com/radiationvictim/ff1.jpg

[crazycuban]

Word up. &nbsp;You just saved me a lot of typing.

And pure physics? &nbsp;I just tested my relatively stock SR at 14psi (close to max w/o injectors) running against a relatively modified KA at 7 psi (max without injectors IIRC)...the KA at 7 psi will not beat the SR with minor, common mods. &nbsp;Simple experience beats simple physics. &nbsp;I don't understand how you can trash an engine that with minor mods runs 13's.

[AceInHole]

my topics are always funny.... lol.

anyways... I still don't think there's a legitamite reason for no one to have a 10 second SR on the streets.... It's not like Duy's car was THAT modified (the standalone system was probably the most expensive/ exotic part), especially compared to some of the SR's running around. So... who's going to push the envelope and of the SR for us??

Just thinking about it.... if a factory tuned SR car (say JUN's) is pulling 9's in a complete racecar... which probably weighs maybe around 2600lbs.... drag slicks... the whole 9 yards.... then Duy's car wasn't that off... considering it was a street car which pulled a mid 10?? Take 500 lbs (his car HAS to be more than 3000) add slicks (there was the vid of the 11 sec run where he looked like he was using street tires... was he using those same tires for the 10 sec run?) and maybe touch upon some headwork and get some better cams.... wouldn't he be deep into 9's?? How many SR's can one say that about.... even in Japan.

Really, I like both... someday maybe I'll have both (chances are I'll work a spare KA block with a shorter stroke fully balanced crank to "piss off the SR owners" with a high revving KA).... but I'm still asking the same question as I did to start this thread: where's the SR to match the top KA's?? (ok... since it isn't in the US... what about Japan??)


BTW: when I started getting into 240's... it really did feel like everyone said the KA was sold as trash and the SR was the pinnacle of tuning. &nbsp;The first time I heard about Ty's car (when it was "only" pushing 280hp) it seemed like a huge deal... &nbsp;IMO, the KA has been the bastard child of s-chassis tuners for a long time.

[crazycuban]

Where's the SR to match the top KA? &nbsp;I think it needs to be asked where's the KA to match the top SR. &nbsp;I've never seen nor heard of an 800hp, or even 700hp KA (the KSP engineering S14 puts down 800 rwhp, the Jun puts down 700hp). &nbsp;You talk about how if Duy's race car was gutted it "would" be faster than the hyper lemon silvia. &nbsp;Well, the fact is, its not. &nbsp;The fact is that as far as I know, there is no KA that has broken into the single digits. &nbsp;There are plenty of SR's that have. &nbsp;This, of course, doesn't say that the SR is the better engine, but just saying that just because the KA has all this potential, doesn't mean its better than the SR. &nbsp;Potential is theoretical. &nbsp;The SR has been proven time and time again that its a bad ass motor. &nbsp;

There's a 10 second Miata, with a turbocharged BP (the 1.8 liter Miata engine that puts out 140 crank hp). &nbsp;Does that mean the BP is a great engine? &nbsp;The Miata's a street car too. &nbsp;If we're talking about accomplishments, I'd say the KA is at about the same level as the BP <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Yeah, to clarify, that was a joke. &nbsp;But you can't say the KA is better because of accomplishments or because of potential. &nbsp;I'd say its impossible to say which of the two is better - it depends on your use for it. &nbsp;It's really the same situation as asking whether the 2JZ-GTE or the Chevy 350 is better. &nbsp;The one think that can be asked, is which suits your purposes? &nbsp;Do you like the whine of a huge turbo, or the rumble of a V8? &nbsp;High end hp, with lag, or a whole lot of low end, with a low redline? &nbsp;Take your pick.

[AceInHole]

why do people always have to distort everything??
It doesn't matter which engine is better.... simply, where's the streeted SR pulling 10's with a full interior?? &nbsp;It's true that the top KA could be faster but isn't... (well... it's in the process of getting faster... only time will tell... and it STILL has a full interior) but it's also true that you couldn't (logically) take the ol' "hyper lemon silvia" onto a city street. &nbsp;In that process, you'd make it slower.

So.... if there's so many SR's in the 10's... i'd just like to see them... that's all. &nbsp;Why is this so confusing?? &nbsp;Someone just link me to a 10 second SR that prowls the streets (and gets dusted by 11 second VW GTI's... lol). &nbsp;

it's funny that:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">just saying that just because the KA has all this potential, doesn't mean its better than the SR. &nbsp;Potential is theoretical. &nbsp;The SR has been proven time and time again that its a bad ass motor. &nbsp;</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> goes against probably the most commonly argued defense of the SR in this thread (didn't really think the SR was being attacked anyways... but people are just defensive i guess).

[Drifting Ricer]

Lets get one thing straight. There is no more high 10 sec 240sx around (at least for the time being). Duy’s traded his car for a Honda (not joking). A rookie tuner has it and he still hasn't taped into the car’s potential. So to call it DUY's car… is pointless. &nbsp;In the same token I don't think there is a hyper lemon around either. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/satisfied.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':satisfied:'>


Now to it seems allot of people here can talk the walk now... Let see a show of hands of who of you are willing to put the TIME the SWEAT and Money, hell even blood to make you're car into 10sec beast! Are any of you guys willing to put 10K plus on making you car fast? Will any of you guys going to have 10sec car? Hmm until we see a couple of street 10 sec SRs and KA running around this will never end.
I for one don't give a damn about 1/4 times, and all I care about is a good all round car that can spank a rookie Porsche driver &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

When this is all set and done drag racing will always be inferior to road racing. All drag racing is throw money at you're car and see how fast it is. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'>

Remember 1/4 mile time are only to measure the cars power not to put all the cars self worth into it.
<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hmmm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hmmm:'>

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Drifting Ricer @ Mar. 09 2002,4:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Lets get one thing straight. ....bla bla bla bla bla......
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;*sacks Drifting Ricer in head with a large bag of rice*
...bla bla bla bla bla.....
Remember 1/4 mile time are only to measure the cars power not to put all the cars self worth into it.
<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hmmm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hmmm:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
people missing the point of the question...

yes you're entitled to your own opinion. &nbsp;Your opinion is not welcome here. &nbsp;Not untill you can keep up with a go-kart, at least.

LoL. &nbsp;Just playin man. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
(aiight, i'm off to eat some rice or something... can't be starving while delivering tofu up the mountain tonight)

[luey02]

Look no further! &nbsp;My sr 240 clocked in at 10.79sec this weekend at 132MPH. &nbsp; I cranked up the boost on my last run just to brake into the 10's and I did it. &nbsp;It probably took away 2 yrs of my motor's life but it was worth it. &nbsp;


what's KA-T?

[Drifting Ricer]

<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

You know I try to get a point across and them some single wiper guy comes in ruins it. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/butbut.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':but:'> &nbsp;luey02 got time slips?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

ACE untill you break 10's with you're home grown turbo you're not allowed to make any more these theard! &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sigh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':rolleyes:'>

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (luey02 @ Mar. 09 2002,5:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">what's KA-T?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
A KA-T would be a KA that you subtracted the turbo from... so basically you had a KA and a turbo... but took away the turbo, and now you only have the KA. &nbsp;Nissan used this same equation when making the 240sx. &nbsp;

Thanks for being the equilizer... got a link to what you've got under the hood?? (List of mods??)


Drifting Ricer: untill you get an LSD and learn how to drift, you can't use the name Drifting Ricer anymore, because you aren't drifting (unless maybe you're on crack??). &nbsp;Just because you don't have something doesn't mean you don't know about it. &nbsp;Obviously I'm working my way there... and personally, I think I know what I'm talking/ asking about.

[rubbersidedown]

i think anymore sr vs ka threads should be locked and thrown away from here-on-out. There have been soooo many in the past and they only seem to eat up space. They're both great engines, that's it. If you want more info on them then search the forum for the old threads or read through this one if there's any info. :-\

[Drifting Ricer]

Why do I even bother. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cry.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':cry:'>

Fine you people can be locked in a spiral of flames. Hmm why do you care about my SN name??? I explained why I like it before? Don't worry I'll be drifting some day.

ah well carry on with this now pointless debate.

People let the horse die in peace! WEST make a faq about all this so people will stop putting this topic up. ¨Y_¨Y

[sykikchimp]

LOL.. &nbsp;as if half the threads in the chat section did anything but take up space. &nbsp;This topic will exist forever b/c its fun to debate about. &nbsp;The only problem is that its hard for many people to portray things like Sarcasm, humor, anger, etc. in a written format. &nbsp;So when someone has a bad night, and reads some sarcasm and take it literal, all hell breaks loose. &nbsp;Kinda fun to read though! &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> &nbsp;Give's me something to laugh at, at 2am

THE KA24DE (minus T) IS KING FO-EVA baby YEAH.. NO engine will EVER CONQUER!!! &nbsp; hehehe rofl

[White240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Guest @ Mar. 11 2002,12:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for built KAs, there is now a handful that are 400rwhp level...

TonKA Truck Power!!!!</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Speaking of which, how's development on that "highest horsepower on pump gas" KA coming, you need something to keep up with the BPUs. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Has UNDERpsi done anything yet to get solidly into the 450hp and above range? We don't get to hear much from him first hand.


-Truck Power!!

[Jeff240sx]

Hmm...
1.5 pages of information.
2 pages of redundancy.
2.5 pages of flaming.

And no one will show the pros and cons to either engine, just the one they like the best.
With the SR motor, the question is all about torque vs. revs. &nbsp;Well, horsepower is torque x rpms / 5252. &nbsp;So, as long as the revs go up faster than the torque drops off, you have mad horsepower. &nbsp;And don't tell me that revs that high are useless, and there's no torque. &nbsp;Because then you would have to say the S2000 engine is crap, and it's "not good for streetracing." &nbsp;And even the CA engine would be "bad", because it can rev to the sky too.
The fact is that the SR is for people like me. &nbsp;I would like to rev my car out, and shift twice while others shift 3 times, becuase I have now gained about a second on them. &nbsp;It is also *best* (used extremely loosly) for streetability. &nbsp;What is the main problem with a torquemonster? &nbsp;Tap the gas, wheelspin, excessive speeding... tickets.
The KA is a great engine too, and is for the people that like bieng thrown in their seat. &nbsp;Not me. &nbsp;But the fact is that if the KA has 50 less hp and 60 more ft/lbs of torque, it will still go about as fast as an SR. &nbsp;
Finally, after adding not too helpful info, I will say this.
Stop talking about *Duy's* s14 like all other KA engines will be built this way. &nbsp;They wont. &nbsp;Duy was a doctor, and paid what, $6-7k on the engine, and did most of the work himself. &nbsp;I dont have that kinda money, and cant do what he did to my car, I dont' have enough knowledge.
But, you are calling it a 700 or 800 horsepower car. &nbsp;You're wrong. &nbsp;At TIMES, it is a 700 or 800 horsepower car, but others, it is a 500-ish horsepower car with nitrous. &nbsp;Now... how many people can make a 500-ish sr20det, then slap a nitrous kit onto it and run fast. &nbsp;A lot. &nbsp;And you are all disregarding the 700 hp JUN silvia and the 800 hp other sr20det powered car as "Duy's was that powerful." &nbsp;Sure. &nbsp;On the bottle. &nbsp;But JUN has no bottle. &nbsp;Adding another 200 hp with a shot on any 500hp KA car wouldnt be a marvel of engineering, but chemistry in action. &nbsp;A firebreathing 700hp sr22det is a monument to 4-cylinder power.
-Jeff

[mbmbmb23]

Why do people keep bringing up that stupid 9 second Jun car...and comparing it to ANY KA car??? &nbsp;Are there any major American tuner companies that sponsor a KA car (and throw endless amounts of money at it, meanwhile writing it off as an advertising expense??). &nbsp;Probably not. &nbsp;So, basically you are comparing a KA (previously sponsored by Duy's wallet) to an SR (sponsored by a major tuning company's expense account). &nbsp;Gee.....I wonder what will be faster. &nbsp;Thats ingorant to compare those 2 cars. &nbsp;Im sure Team Yugo could build up an 7 second drag monster if they had a sponsor with deep enough pockets and resources....but theres no $$ in the Yugo...just as theres no $$ in the 240SX KA (out of production...anyone???).



M

[AceInHole]

the original question was more of a "why"... it's funny how every other aspect of the debate gets dragged in though. &nbsp;

and so far I'm waiting on the info for 1 street tuned SR that can almost keep up with Duy's old ride (which I'm sure we're all expecting to get faster once the new owner learns how to handle it).

ah well..... it's nice to talk about at least.

[DrDubbleB]

Ace, here's my answer as to "Why," and you aren't going to like it. &nbsp;There is no good reason. &nbsp;That's right, you heard me, it's the broadest answer there is. &nbsp;But it's true. &nbsp;It seems that most people in America with SR's so far really haven't tapped into their full potential, and either make them show cars with little engine modifications, or mostly have the engine to say "Ooooo looky what I got." &nbsp;So I guess I can see where some people are going when people say the SR is for ricers, although I disagree with that statement.
I think most of it is what I mentioned above, combined with the fact that some people that would love to bring out the best in the SR, simply don't have the money and resources to do so. &nbsp;Not everyone can throw thousands more into a car when they already spent thousands for the swap.
I plan on tapping into some of the SR's potential, but nowhere near it's full potential. &nbsp;I guess only time will tell if anyone will ever reach that point in the US.

[DuffMan]

Bah, it's already been proven that both these engines pale in comparison to the Gerbils on Crack / Tunafish can hybrind engine that my car will have.

[luey02]

I was just kidding around... &nbsp;I dont even have a sr.. &nbsp;I'm suck a dick I know. &nbsp;

But the truth is, half the sr owner dont even wanna go that fast and wanna keep it streetable. &nbsp;Sorry but running 10sec in a quarter is not streetable. &nbsp;wasting too much gas and not being able to rev is not streetable to me. &nbsp;And I also dont have anything to show for by boosting up and try to set a world record. &nbsp;Maybe a 12 sec car to show all the vett owners out there that their car was a mistake is just what I want. (since I know more of them are snob).

[AceInHole]

well... one of the most memorable moments is Duy's car being beat in a freeway race.... so I'd say his car is/ was streetable. &nbsp;That might have been what the nitrous was for... so that the car would maintain a decent attitude when off the bottle, and go out when it's on.

I guess maybe I was just wondering, since I was in another forum and someone asks KA vs SR? and there's the obvious hot headed responses.... people are like "well, how many KA turbos do you see??" and that brings out the question... "I've seen more SR's than turbo KA's... but none of them have more power than the turbo KA's that I do know about...."

Maybe SR owners DO fit the JDM'ish stereotype of simply wanting everything JDM, and having a car that sits pretty.... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
J/p &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sigh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':rolleyes:'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (crazycuban @ Mar. 10 2002,07:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Word up. You just saved me a lot of typing.

And pure physics? I just tested my relatively stock SR at 14psi (close to max w/o injectors) running against a relatively modified KA at 7 psi (max without injectors IIRC)...the KA at 7 psi will not beat the SR with minor, common mods. Simple experience beats simple physics. I don't understand how you can trash an engine that with minor mods runs 13's.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Obviously you're lacking in english comprehension... Which part of boosting at same boost you didn't understand?

Go ahead a boost a SR at 7psi and compare it to a KA with 7psi of boost...

Displacement is still displacement and boost is virtual displacement...

Boosting a SR at 1.0bar makes the engine a virtual 4.0L engine...

Boosting a KA at 7psi (or 0.5 bar) makes the engine a virtual 3.6L... Of course the SR at 1.0bar will make more power... Pure and simple physics... and english...

A KA @ 1.0bar has a virtual displacement of 4.8L...

Imagine the 8.0L Viper V-10 at 1.0bar... 16.0L!!!!!

[AceInHole]

are you sad that you can't be a deleted member anymore???

anyways, I think it's pretty clear that the SR, being a weaker engine, isn't capable of the power the KA is, and so it's not a good choice for someone seeking more power for their car.

lol. &nbsp;just had to say that. &nbsp;great, now flames will come.... this will never die...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ca18guy @ Mar. 10 2002,05:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No offense (well actually yes take offense I don't care) but you sound like an idiot. I don't even know were to start, first the sr20de in Japan (since thats what were comparing to) makes 160 HP n/a doe's that make it better to turbo then the KA24 now? Strap a T25 or T28 turbo and boost it to 7 psi and see how much HP the KA24 makes then, not really fair comparing a T3/4 turbo kit to a T25 or T28 now is it? You kinda lose me with your rambling about tires and shit, but "As for fresh off the showroom floor, what does that have to do with the power level of the motor?" Have you ever bought a used car? Come on, you never know how it was treated or mantained, if he had a used clunker that was abused your telling me that would'nt factor in to wether it breaks down? My used ca18 blew on me and it only had 77,000 miles, and I was running stock! And what the hell doe's this mean "For years the KA camp had to fight the hype of the SR. The KA was overcasted by the shadow of the SR's achievement and no one really took a look at it... Now, the KA camp is well established, and the SR folks are scrambling... Who would've thought.... too funny..." What is this some backwoods city with rival gangs fighting each other? Grow the fuck up, anything is better then stock, neither hold's anything over the other. hell I have a stock ca18det and I'm still probably faster then 95% of this forum, cause most people don't even do anything to there cars. Oh here's a pic for you....

http://www.neonspeed.com/radiationvictim/ff1.jpg</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Okay, SR20DE in Japan... 160ps... @ 10:1 comp ratio, 95 octane gas, and convert that 160ps to hp... still not impressive...

And who's arguing T3/T25/T28? The discussion was about boost levels... Go ahead, strap a T28 to a KA, and don't be suprise that it will make more power than a SR with a T28. After all, it's a larger displacing engine. If it made less power, then I'd be worried about the engine...

If you want to argue, atleast understand the difference between a power level advertised in "ps" and not do the newbie thing of comparing it straight to "hp".

About the showroom thingy... well there is such a thing called "inspection", "leak down check", "compression check" etc... Bet you've never heard of those things before... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Yes, I've bought used cars before. Lots of fun... Had fun with a '84 Maxima. Even had to rebuild the distibutor and made it more reliable...

About the tires... Well, that was a reply to another fool who said he can break loose his wheels... Geez, break loose a wheel... that means he needs to tighten down the lug nuts or learn english... if he is trying to say that his car can break loose the tires (lost of traction)... Geez, break a wheel loose, good one... So my real suggestion to him was for him to get better tires. Being able to break traction with a set of tires doesn't really mean massive power. The example I gave was of a geo Metro. I could get one to break traction and spin the tires. Does that make the Geo Metro really powerful? No, it just means the tires can't get enough traction... (I'm poking fun at his flawed logic in his argument if you are having problems following along...)

Geez, your used CA18 with 77k... How much of that 77k is real? How about the fact you bought a junk yard engine vs a running car? Again, flawed logic...

As for the KA/SR camp... geez, engrish, do you speak it?

Why are you so proud of an engine that was cast aside by both the SR and KA? CA is old news...

...atleast one person on this thread knows my story... lol...

[luey02]

the flame is coming.. lol..

nah, you're right. In the end, KA will make more power since of the displacement but SR can easily reach what my goal is. &nbsp;So power isn't one of my issue, as I can speak for a lotta heads in here. &nbsp;But the fact that SR can out-rev the KA and feel more like a real performance car is what gets my bag of chips. &nbsp;Plus, it's got more parts.. &nbsp;

flame on ACE!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ Mar. 11 2002,11:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">are you sad that you can't be a deleted member anymore???

anyways, I think it's pretty clear that the SR, being a weaker engine, isn't capable of the power the KA is, and so it's not a good choice for someone seeking more power for their car.

lol. just had to say that. great, now flames will come.... this will never die...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Yes...

For those SR folks, don't get the wrong idea... The engine is a great engine. Lots have been accomplished, but it isn't that much better... especially considering the cheesy rocker arms... What a joke... And all the support and R&D with the SR can't seem to really trump the efforts of grass root R&D of the KA+T... So what Duy's a doctor or what not... He's not a performance part corporation... The time to use Jun's car for a comparison is if a company the size of Jun uses the same amount of resource in to a KA... than you can use the Jun car... For $10k that went into Duy's former car, that's pretty good. I haven't seen an equivalent level of performance from a grass root level SR...

CA folks, STFU... Your engine's era is way over... belongs in a junkyard or a museum.

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (luey02 @ Mar. 11 2002,12:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the flame is coming.. lol..

nah, you're right. In the end, KA will make more power since of the displacement but SR can easily reach what my goal is. So power isn't one of my issue, as I can speak for a lotta heads in here. But the fact that SR can out-rev the KA and feel more like a real performance car is what gets my bag of chips. Plus, it's got more parts..

flame on ACE!</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
just wait for the KA22DET... then you'll cream your pants wishing you had a KA <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

I NEED A SPARE KA BLOCK!!!
anyways... deleted "who me?".. I thought the z22 was in the S110?? &nbsp;the S110 had an L series from what I saw....
z series = NapZ = modded L??

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (luey02 @ Mar. 11 2002,11:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the flame is coming.. lol..

nah, you're right. In the end, KA will make more power since of the displacement but SR can easily reach what my goal is. So power isn't one of my issue, as I can speak for a lotta heads in here. But the fact that SR can out-rev the KA and feel more like a real performance car is what gets my bag of chips. Plus, it's got more parts..

flame on ACE!</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
You are absolutely right...

SR swaps are definetly for folks what want that level of hp and is not willing to spend more money.

It's easy to get 250hp...

...but then again, it's also relatively easy to get 250hp with a KA...

...Yeah, it's easier to find performance parts for the SR, but truely how many SR folks aren't cheap, and are willing to take advantage of that? Guess there isn't too many...

...for SOHC KA owners, just do it... time for that SR... unless you like to run carbs and have a N/A KA24E that does 240hp.

[Grant]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (geeaj @ Mar. 08 2002,1:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Wow, a cornacopia of information and strong arguments. You guys make me randy...*rubs his nippies*..

Just seeing if the moderators are working on weekends.. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sigh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':rolleyes:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I AM working!!

You know I've still got this crazy idea about a KA24DES..... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

anyways, I like both engines equally. Truth of the matter is that the SR DOES have its limits, and so does the KA, but when it comes to the extreme, KA wins. I only like the SR better because of my ability to operate/maintain a turbo parts (and bolt on parts). I see it as a cheaper solution to a turbo KA, and for nearly the same amount of money, you already have another motor.

But,
I might sound like an idiot, but after seeing a totally built up off road buggy with a turbo acura legend motor running 600+ hp off moderate boost 11-14psi (the legend didnt come off the factory as a performance motor), the advantage of a larger displacement engine is quite obvious, even if it didnt roll out of the factory as a high performance engine.

Sometimes I wonder if I do go to the extreme, is it just better to get an Rb25det? oh well.. (if it wasn't for the the fact that they are so rare over here, that might just be the way to go <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> &nbsp;)


T.Y. comon out from your hiding spot <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[drift freaq]

ah I go away for the weekend and look what happens I miss out on all the fun. Hahahahahahahahahaha
man this one was long . now let me see what can I add to this that might piss someone off hahahhahahahaha.
Well lets say this first off . Ace is right I have heard of some 400hp SR's but no one who has run 10's with one.
Second T.Y. is here and he has made some very true arguements that are some of the most thought out of this thread.
Me? Well I am one of the fortunate in my opinion. I have a low mileage KAde that is going to be T. &nbsp;It has 25K on it now . I have a friend here in town who wires SR20 swaps for people privately and for Motorex. His blacktop Sr is fast. I respect it,its fun. I took him for a ride in my Stock 91 KADe the only thing this engine has is exhaust,K&N cone filter on the Maf and a lightened truck flywheel(240mm clutch surface for turbo setup) . He was visably impressed by my cars pull and performance. The words out of his mouth where "oh man this thing moves I can wait for this to be Turbo" end quote!
Now all in all the point here is this. I am going KA Turbo. I like my KA it kicks ass . Do I diss SR's ? Only to piss off SR Nazi's ! why because I know it will.Do I hate SR's hell no, but I do enjoy a good debate. if you set yourself up, I may not resist knocking you down . now I know there are some on this forum that can't stand being ripped when they make statements without a lot of proof which brings Ace question up which has still not been answered and the people who have given non answers hide behind statements like I know your not going to like my answer Ace bahhahahahhahaha. If you can't give him the answer then just don't say anything .
Hey Grant?? You wanna close this one down?? I am done
<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>

[DrDubbleB]

Ok...well obviously one of those statements was directed at me, so I am going to respond. &nbsp;The truth is, there's no way for us to know exactly why no one has made a 10 sec SR in the US because we are not in the minds of SR owners. &nbsp;I will be an SR owner, and I have no plans to get into the 10's, my goal lies near there, but not quite. &nbsp;If you would have read the entire post that I had, then you would realise that I did, in fact, answer the question to the best of my abilities, and there's not a whole lot more you can say on the subject. &nbsp;Is it possilbe to build a 10 second SR, yes, we all know it is. &nbsp;Why hasn't it been done here in the States, that's anybody's guess. &nbsp;So, that is why I said, Ace, you aren't going to like this answer. &nbsp;Because it's anybody's guess, there is no real answer.

[Grant]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (drift freaq @ Mar. 11 2002,02:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ah I go away for the weekend and look what happens I miss out on all the fun. Hahahahahahahahahaha
man this one was long . now let me see what can I add to this that might piss someone off hahahhahahahaha.
Well lets say this first off . Ace is right I have heard of some 400hp SR's but no one who has run 10's with one.
Second T.Y. is here and he has made some very true arguements that are some of the most thought out of this thread.
Me? Well I am one of the fortunate in my opinion. I have a low mileage KAde that is going to be T. It has 25K on it now . I have a friend here in town who wires SR20 swaps for people privately and for Motorex. His blacktop Sr is fast. I respect it,its fun. I took him for a ride in my Stock 91 KADe the only thing this engine has is exhaust,K&N cone filter on the Maf and a lightened truck flywheel(240mm clutch surface for turbo setup) . He was visably impressed by my cars pull and performance. The words out of his mouth where "oh man this thing moves I can wait for this to be Turbo" end quote!
Now all in all the point here is this. I am going KA Turbo. I like my KA it kicks ass . Do I diss SR's ? Only to piss off SR Nazi's ! why because I know it will.Do I hate SR's hell no, but I do enjoy a good debate. if you set yourself up, I may not resist knocking you down . now I know there are some on this forum that can't stand being ripped when they make statements without a lot of proof which brings Ace question up which has still not been answered and the people who have given non answers hide behind statements like I know your not going to like my answer Ace bahhahahahhahaha. If you can't give him the answer then just don't say anything .
Hey Grant?? You wanna close this one down?? I am done
<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
DUDE DAVE, thats not cool, lol, you're supposed to be a lot meaner than that... j/k. (glad you came off easy on this one!!!<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>. Anyways, can you take a rain check? I'll just bust out a torch and flame you at the meet. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>..

Anyways, what turbo you planning to use? how many pounds of boost?

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Guest @ Mar. 12 2002,5:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Okay, SR20DE in Japan... 160ps... @ 10:1 comp ratio, 95 octane gas, and convert that 160ps to hp... still not impressive...

And who's arguing T3/T25/T28? The discussion was about boost levels... Go ahead, strap a T28 to a KA, and don't be suprise that it will make more power than a SR with a T28. After all, it's a larger displacing engine. If it made less power, then I'd be worried about the engine...

If you want to argue, atleast understand the difference between a power level advertised in "ps" and not do the newbie thing of comparing it straight to "hp".

About the showroom thingy... well there is such a thing called "inspection", "leak down check", "compression check" etc... Bet you've never heard of those things before... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Yes, I've bought used cars before. Lots of fun... Had fun with a '84 Maxima. Even had to rebuild the distibutor and made it more reliable...

About the tires... Well, that was a reply to another fool who said he can break loose his wheels... Geez, break loose a wheel... that means he needs to tighten down the lug nuts or learn english... if he is trying to say that his car can break loose the tires (lost of traction)... Geez, break a wheel loose, good one... So my real suggestion to him was for him to get better tires. Being able to break traction with a set of tires doesn't really mean massive power. The example I gave was of a geo Metro. I could get one to break traction and spin the tires. Does that make the Geo Metro really powerful? No, it just means the tires can't get enough traction... (I'm poking fun at his flawed logic in his argument if you are having problems following along...)

Geez, your used CA18 with 77k... How much of that 77k is real? How about the fact you bought a junk yard engine vs a running car? Again, flawed logic...

As for the KA/SR camp... geez, engrish, do you speak it?

Why are you so proud of an engine that was cast aside by both the SR and KA? CA is old news...

...atleast one person on this thread knows my story... lol...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
The site I got 160 HP said HP not PS. Even if it was PS it would drop it what, a whole 2-3 HP? (i'm not gonna bother looking up the conversion) Why argue about T25/T28? Cause that would obviously effect the overall HP at any given boost level. And how much of my CA's 77K of milage is real? Well seeing as it came STOCK over here in england I would assume that they were real mile's, it was'nt a junk yard engine (though after replacing it and revealing alot of things it might be &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hmmm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hmmm:'> &nbsp;) Which brings me back to the fact that in a used car you don't know what your getting. As for me being proud of my engine, what are you talking about? I'm proud of my car for what it is, but you rarely if ever (besides when people ask me about it) see me going on and on over the ca18 like the ka-t and sr folks. It's a good engine but I don't try to push people into it like you guy's. hell I take it from the sound of your post's that I don't like the KA, if I ever bought a 240sx I most likely would keep it. &nbsp;Unfortunatly I'm not even a big fan of 4 cylinder's period, so I don't care which one everyone "feels" is better. I just wanted a cheap quick turbo Nissan while I spend my 2 years over here in England. I never knew that by me buying this car I should be ashamed and get in arguements with people whom I thought shared common interest's (not a bunch of in fighting) As for the "ca gang" or whatever you called the groups, I feel kinda lonely in my gang seeing that I'm the only one in it &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> &nbsp; Anyway as I always say in all of these post's (something I swear I stole of one of your post's on FA) Anything is better then stock!

PS I just noticed I write in one big paragraph on forums &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

[crazycuban]

God dammit...people who argue by saying other peeps can't speak english are dumb. &nbsp;Especially when they say you can't speak english, but respond, and therefore, definately understand you. &nbsp;

Anyways, you guys talk about how a KA can support more hp than an SR.

Show me.

[luey02]

I love how people like to get the lastword.. &nbsp;even though they have no more logical things to say.

[AceInHole]

side note: &nbsp;drift freaq: how's the clutch flywheel?? once my spec is done (maybe a year or two) I'll probably go that route. &nbsp;

there's a couple KA's that pull over 400HP... &nbsp;Chris May's was one, underpsi was working on his, and of course, there's Duy's old car. &nbsp;I forgot the name of the guy, but didn't someone dump a 150shot into his KA (altima rings... the rest was stock... welded diff?) and pull 11's? &nbsp;
Then there's stuff like Ty's car doing 300+ HP on stock internals... RobTheChef's car with that same turbo setup on a car with around 120k miles???

Then there's someone else.... who says he has gone through like 4 or 5 SR's (ending up with a white top...lol) and is only at a speculated 380hp....

Well... there's a few KA's... show me some SR's please.

[crazycuban]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ Mar. 12 2002,10:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well... there's a few KA's... show me some SR's please.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Ooooh 400hp. &nbsp;Actually, now that I think about it, the KA hasn't even surpassed the Honda B-series engines in terms of hp. &nbsp;

Anyways, show you some SR's? &nbsp;

KSP Engineering drag S14 - 800hp, twin turbo SR20DET(T)
Jun Hyper Lemon S14 - 700hp, 8 secs full stock body


oooooooh but they aren't in America...
I don't really give a shit if they're in America or not, we're talking about which is the better engine - KA or SR. &nbsp;I'm not saying peak hp makes the better engine - like I said earlier, they're both equally good, but at different things. &nbsp;But don't bring hp into the discussion thinking it means the KA is better.

[crazycuban]

I guess my point is that you can say the KA is better at certain things than the SR, but until you have solid evidence, as in seen or read about KA cars with the same e.t. and hp as the top SR's, then I don't really think that you can say that the KA is better. &nbsp;It may suit your purposes better, but the better engine? &nbsp;That's just dumb...in a couple years, when the KA becomes the popular tuning engine it deserves to be, then come back and say that the KA is better than the SR (that, of course, is assuming you're right about its "potential".

[drift freaq]

ace writes.....
side note: drift freaq: how's the clutch flywheel?? once my spec is done (maybe a year or two) I'll probably go that route.
-----------------------------------------------------------
damn ace,
you would have to drag me back into this. hahahahahaha
the clutch/lightened steel(truck) flywheel setup is awesome it surprises a lot of people. I highly recommend it as an alternative to a more expensive aluminum flywheel setup. As well as the fact that the 240mm clutch surface is nice . It opened up some doors option wise in the clutch department as well. I now have a choices of 280zx Turbo clutchs , LUK Goldline truck clutchs(1,400 pounds clamping force 500lbs holding torque) , Daiken heavy duty , ACT, Clutchmasters.
Oh yeah Grant I plan on running 7-11lbs of boost on a T3/T4 hybrid custom setup modeled after the FMAX stage II kit.

[AceInHole]

notice how all the KA's I mentioned were privately owned?? &nbsp;I thought the whole point was for high HP street engines.... &nbsp;AFAIK, those cars aren't ever going to see an actual road. &nbsp;supposedly, weren't under's and duy's cars 600+ hp??

What about the 9 sec KA24E's mentioned in the other thread? &nbsp;I'm not mentioning those because they aren't street cars. &nbsp;

I was never asking so complex a question as which engine is better. &nbsp;Really, I don't care, I'd probably rather have a shitty FJ or the Nissan S110 rotary engine (who's designation I think will never be known). &nbsp;
I asked why there aren't some powerful SR's in street cars in the US... and I get a bunch of BS excuses, followed by the usual off-topic crap about one engine being better than the other. Oh well. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/dozingoff.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':zzz:'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sigh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':rolleyes:'>

[luey02]

I think I have an answer time for you, my man. &nbsp;not lying this time. &nbsp;

From what I've noticed lately, there are more KA-T than Sr's. &nbsp;Then of course the number favors kaT's to have a couple cars to stand out. &nbsp;I'm sure there are SR's in the US that's in the 10s league that we dont know about...

[Jeff240sx]

Why is the focus of this conversation who makes more power? &nbsp;I for one, don't want to drive everyday with 800hp out of either engine. &nbsp;It would be rediculous. &nbsp;I will hit 300, and if $$$ permits, 350hp. &nbsp;This, in either engine, will drop into the low 12's. &nbsp;
But to glimpse the strengths.
Sr - high revving.
Ka - Torque.
Weaknesses.
Sr - Aluminum Alloy block with Steel Alloy cylinder sleeves. (Wow. &nbsp;Steel Alloy. &nbsp;HAS to be 1/2 as weak as iron.)
Ka - Lower redline, less horsepower.

Now. &nbsp;Before people bitch about my less horsepower claim. &nbsp;I am talking two engines with the same mods. &nbsp;The KA will have less horsepower, but a lot more torque. &nbsp;
Each engine is for the right perspective owner, and people need to realize it.
-Jeff

[240sxer]

There are lots of aftermarket parts for both here in the US and the following for both is probably equally strong. &nbsp;Subscribe to Super street and you will see plenty of sr20dets pushing upwards of 300 hp.

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (luey02 @ Mar. 11 2002,2:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think I have an answer time for you, my man. not lying this time.

From what I've noticed lately, there are more KA-T than Sr's. Then of course the number favors kaT's to have a couple cars to stand out. I'm sure there are SR's in the US that's in the 10s league that we dont know about...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
actually... my count is the SR's outnumber the KA-T's by more than 3:1.

[junia]

I say screw the SR and screw the KA. &nbsp;We need to get back to our roots and do a L28 swap....Yeah <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[SimpleS14]

Ace - Your probably not going to get much of a straight forward answer to your question.

I believe people with a SR or KA-T are happy with their setup and probably don't want anything more or less. Basically what I'm saying is that some people with a SR don't want a 10 sec. car simply because they are happy with what they have. Just as long as they can spank a Civic, GTi, Prelude or any other car that they want to bet (I want to get a '00 Prelude and Mustang <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'> ) and have a engine to take about (SR has great hype in the import scene). Personally I like both engines, but I want to have something that looks flashy as well as fast (decent not extremely fast). So all the money that I'm saving up with first go to exterior and interior looks or *bling bling* as some people would say. After all that I will focus on my powertrain and drivetrain and probably rebuild my KA or get a SR with tranny swap (my car is an auto <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> ). Everything comes down to the owners preference, their knowledge about the car and how much $$$ they want to shell out. Either route they go their car is fast and can get you for point A to point B in good time like a car should. Who cares if have a 10 sec. car on the street, chances are that you wouldn't be able to speed like that one the streets anyway. However there are some illegal exceptions.....which I know of <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'>

I'm probably going to get quoted by my post <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hmmm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hmmm:'> but hey everything is IMO <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/satisfied.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':satisfied:'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jeff240sx @ Mar. 12 2002,1:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why is the focus of this conversation who makes more power? I for one, don't want to drive everyday with 800hp out of either engine. It would be rediculous. I will hit 300, and if $$$ permits, 350hp. This, in either engine, will drop into the low 12's.
But to glimpse the strengths.
Sr - high revving.
Ka - Torque.
Weaknesses.
Sr - Aluminum Alloy block with Steel Alloy cylinder sleeves. (Wow. Steel Alloy. HAS to be 1/2 as weak as iron.)
Ka - Lower redline, less horsepower.

Now. Before people bitch about my less horsepower claim. I am talking two engines with the same mods. The KA will have less horsepower, but a lot more torque.
Each engine is for the right perspective owner, and people need to realize it.
-Jeff</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Well, you should just say less hp for the KA. What you need to do is to make the distinction that it will have less peak hp.

The KA typically have a much broader powerband than the SR. Not a huge difference, but significantly enough...

Case in point:

two 240SX, both dynoed 210rwhp at the 1st annual 240SX national meeting in Kansas City, Mo. One is a S14. The other is a S13. The S14 is running a F-Max stage 1 on an engine that has 100k miles on it. The S13, well, about 30k miles.

Since both cars have the same peak rwhp, it was thought it would be a good comparison. the S14 has about a 400lb weight disadvantage.

After three runs, the S14 with the KA+T came out on top on all three runs. Wasn't a run away victory, but a win nonetheless. Yeah, both have same peak rwhp, but since rwhp doesn't tell the whole story, and that the heavier car won means that the KA+T made more power through out more of the powerband, and torque is part of all that... HP is a function of torque and rpm...

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (GT specR @ Mar. 14 2002,5:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I believe people with a SR or KA-T are happy with their setup and probably don't want anything more or less. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Well, I believe you believe wrong. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> (yeah, you're getting quoted, sorry... shoulda picked on someone else maybe).

Every talk to someone that owns a turbo car?? &nbsp;Getting power out of a turbo is as easy as turning up the boost... from there, you're just trying to make your car handle it. &nbsp;Every person I've talked to that owns a turbo car wants more power, because they know it's there. &nbsp;This goes from people with old Saab 900 Turbo's to "white topped" SR powered S14's: they'll always crave for more boost.

Well, at least everyone pretty much agrees "to each his own", and hopefully not everyone will put the truck engine down from now on. &nbsp;Really, I was probably just a little ticked off at another newbie saying "if you want power, get rid of the truck engine and get an SR" when I started this thread.

[junia]

I wonder what the big deal is with the whole "truck engine" thing. &nbsp;Maybe nissan threw the KA into trucks because of the torque it had. &nbsp;I don't hear anyone talking trash about the CA and thats also a truck engine. &nbsp;I don't hear anybody say look ar that POS rotary engine thats a "truck" engine or look at the 7M or 22R's they're also truck engine. &nbsp;Hey look everybody the RB26DETT is a stationwagon engine(stagea). &nbsp;How about subarus boxer engines that come in just about all of there stationwagons. &nbsp;Stupid people make me sick....

[crazycuban]

Who me, the S14 definately doesn't have a 400 lb weight disadvantage...hopefully you typed it wrong, but the S13 weighs around 2650, and the S14 2750.

And as far as people being happy with their hp, Ace is definately right...after putting in my SR, and having to deal with all this new power, I was pretty damn scared by it. &nbsp;Now I'm looking at injectors and turbos...and its only been about 3 weeks. &nbsp;Its just too damn easy to say "okay, I'll just leave it there"...

And I still don't get why the SR's aluminum is a disadvantage to the KA's iron block - the strength of the block only matters in high horsepower/boost situations, and the SR has been pushed much higher than the KA...sure, the sleeves have to be switched out on the SR, but the entire bottom end of the KA has to be switched out at lower hp levels than the SR.

Anyways, it pisses me off too when people call the KA a "truck engine"...hell, the B-series Honda engine is used in the CRV, but I've never heard that called a truck engine. &nbsp;It's just all relative...I talk to Honda oriented people about my dyno charts, and they remark on how torquey my engine is...the KA has even more torque than mine...import enthusiasts are just used to not having torque - for the most part, only American cars and import trucks are seen as having torque. &nbsp;

mmmmmmmm...L28...

[drift freaq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">crazycuban..but the entire bottom end of the KA has to be switched out at lower hp levels than the SR.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

ok I gonna call BS on this statement, the only thing in the KA bottom end that needs to be changed out is the pistons(and not unless your pushing over 400hp). The rods are forged the crank is forged and knife edged.
you can crossdrill and chamfer the oil galleries on the crank but that is not changing it out.
Also there are close to 400hp bone stock KA+T's running around here and they are perfectly reliable. Fact is cuban its about equal when it comes to the hp level that you have to start beefing up the bottom ends KA or SR .

oh by the way since you guys are all savoring over L28's hahahaha
the best L series 6 cylinder was the L26 because it had a nice broad flat Torque and rev band .
Why? Because it was basically a L28 crank in a L24 bore and stroke. making a much more rev oriented engine than a L28. which would not rev for beans and you guys complain that KA's can't rev hahahhahahhaha
giving it(L26) the torque of the L28 combined with the rev's of a L24.
Now that said and done for a Z car its awesome but I am not going to drool over a 25 year old engine for my 10 year old car because I could just go and put a RB25 in and be much more current and have the same kind of power and Torque.
Now that is something to drool over. costly yes but cool.

[drift freaq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">crazycuban..but the entire bottom end of the KA has to be switched out at lower hp levels than the SR.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

ok I gonna call BS on this statement, the only thing in the KA bottom end that needs to be changed out is the pistons(and not unless your pushing over 400hp). The rods are forged the crank is forged and knife edged.
you can crossdrill and chamfer the oil galleries on the crank but that is not changing it out.
Also there are close to 400hp bone stock KA+T's running around here and they are perfectly reliable. Fact is cuban its about equal when it comes to the hp level that you have to start beefing up the bottom ends KA or SR .

oh by the way since you guys are all savoring over L28's hahahaha
the best L series 6 cylinder was the L26 because it had a nice broad flat Torque and rev band .
Why? Because it was basically a L28 crank in a L24 bore and stroke. making a much more rev oriented engine than a L28. which would not rev for beans and you guys complain that KA's can't rev hahahhahahhaha
giving it(L26) the torque of the L28 combined with the rev's of a L24.
Now that said and done for a Z car its awesome but I am not going to drool over a 25 year old engine for my 10 year old car because I could just go and put a RB25 in and be much more current and have the same kind of power and Torque.
Now that is something to drool over. costly yes but cool.

[drift freaq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">crazycuban..but the entire bottom end of the KA has to be switched out at lower hp levels than the SR.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

ok I gonna call BS on this statement, the only thing in the KA bottom end that needs to be changed out is the pistons(and not unless your pushing over 400hp). The rods are forged the crank is forged and knife edged.
you can crossdrill and chamfer the oil galleries on the crank but that is not changing it out.
Also there are close to 400hp bone stock KA+T's running around here and they are perfectly reliable. Fact is cuban its about equal when it comes to the hp level that you have to start beefing up the bottom ends KA or SR .

oh by the way since you guys are all savoring over L28's hahahaha
the best L series 6 cylinder was the L26 because it had a nice broad flat Torque and rev band .
Why? Because it was basically a L28 crank in a L24 bore and stroke. making a much more rev oriented engine than a L28. which would not rev for beans and you guys complain that KA's can't rev hahahhahahhaha
giving it(L26) the torque of the L28 combined with the rev's of a L24.
Now that said and done for a Z car its awesome but I am not going to drool over a 25 year old engine for my 10 year old car because I could just go and put a RB25 in and be much more current and have the same kind of power and Torque.
Now that is something to drool over. costly yes but cool.

[DrDubbleB]

Settle down there dpro.

[crazycuban]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DrDubbleB @ Mar. 16 2002,7:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Settle down there dpro.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
hehe my sentiments exactly...

ANYways...

The KA crank is NOT knife edged...there was a pic on fresh alloy a while ago of the KA crank.

400 hp to switch out the bottom end on an SR is a conservative estimate - I've seen estimates as high as 500 and 550 hp before the bottom end of the SR needs work. &nbsp;That being said, the SR needs headwork before the KA, at about the same time the KA needs bottom end work - but for me at least (and this is, of course, not about one engine being better than the other, but about individual choices), I'd rather mess with the head than the bottom end - you don't have to lift the engine out, and when you work the head you can get power from cams and revs from lightening/strengthening valvetrain components as well...

And whether you need to switch out the components on the KA or not, the fact is that you have to pull the engine and mess with the bottom end, which you don't have to do until higher on the SR.

[student]

I dont know what to do now? For a while I wanted to turbo my ka but thought about buying an sr. Then i thought about all motor but i dont know. I guess ill just turbo my ka.

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (student @ Mar. 15 2002,8:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I dont know what to do now? For a while I wanted to turbo my ka but thought about buying an sr. Then i thought about all motor but i dont know. I guess ill just turbo my ka.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
get an FJ... you'll have time to be indecisive while you look for one <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

one thing to mention is the weight difference of the sr being an aluminum block, if there is one, dont really care to check the specs before i write this, but im sure it weighs less (could be wrong), and that would help getting the over-all wieght down for 1/4 miles, the weight of the driver would also matter, how much fuel was in the car, everything related to weight, im not sayin either is better...i just dont get how everyone is all hung up on 1/4 times and hp, hell some of it is just how good the driver is....

just my opinion

[Jeff240sx]

Gee. &nbsp;Im just gonna be happy that you said "if there is one" for the weight difference and imagine that you said nothing else after that.
People think about the engine weights by material and relate that object to the weight difference. &nbsp;I.E.
Ka is iron. &nbsp;Skillets are iron. &nbsp;Skillets are heavy.
Sr is Aluminum. &nbsp;Cans are aluminum. &nbsp;damn. &nbsp;Sr's probably weight 1/4 of a KA.
NO!
The thing nobody seems to understand is that the SR isn't aluminum. &nbsp;It is aluminum alloy. &nbsp;Nissan, known for making bulletproof engines, put so much alloy in that block to keep it from blowing up that it weighs about 50 pounds less than a Ka. &nbsp;And it has Steel sleeves in the cylinders, as if all that alloy wasn't enough.
Out of this entire thread, weight should be and is the last thing to consider in KA vs. SR threads.
-Jeff

[crazycuban]

Yeah, people talk about the SR as being weak because it's aluminum, but really there's a whole lot of aluminum in that block...it's not weak, but because it's not weak, its not that much lighter than the KA. &nbsp;For a street car, that small of a weight difference has no bearing.

[DrDubbleB]

The weight issue was addressed like 4 pages back I think. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> &nbsp;We all agreed there was one, but it was an insignificant amount.

[AceInHole]

actually, from my recollection of how the story goes... the SR guy was seen taking a lot of stuff out of his trunk, after the runs were agreed to be "as is". &nbsp;Assuming this includes a decent stereo system and some tools.... spare tire, etc...

[Grant]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ Mar. 15 2002,1:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (GT specR @ Mar. 14 2002,5:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I believe people with a SR or KA-T are happy with their setup and probably don't want anything more or less. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Well, I believe you believe wrong. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> (yeah, you're getting quoted, sorry... shoulda picked on someone else maybe).

Every talk to someone that owns a turbo car?? Getting power out of a turbo is as easy as turning up the boost... from there, you're just trying to make your car handle it. Every person I've talked to that owns a turbo car wants more power, because they know it's there. This goes from people with old Saab 900 Turbo's to "white topped" SR powered S14's: they'll always crave for more boost.

Well, at least everyone pretty much agrees "to each his own", and hopefully not everyone will put the truck engine down from now on. Really, I was probably just a little ticked off at another newbie saying "if you want power, get rid of the truck engine and get an SR" when I started this thread.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
ehh truck motor eh? well truck motors were built stronger, to handle more stress. The engine in the Chevy camaro dragster that my high school autoshop raced was a truck motor as well. so that actually makes it a better motor than just any car motor!. I've seen people refer to the motor as a hardbody motor, when as far as I know all hardbody's came with ka24e's.

Anyways, which engine would you feel safer going turbo with? a truck motor or a 1.6L honda motor?

okay, another thing to look at is the drivers skill, and the wheel size, the gear ratios, aerodynamics, all of those you must take into consideration when you think of 1/4 mile times, the actual question was why isnt there any 10sec sr powered 240s in the US, and i have to likely anwsers, either the sr owners dont care to run 10 sec 1/4 miles, you just havnt heard about any yet, and there could possibly be none in the US...hell it might not even be the car, maybe you could drive someones sr powered car and get into the 10 sec range, in my opinion the only real way to see which one is better is to have a race, one KA, one SR, with the car being the same, and have one driver, say he runs 5 ,1/4s with the ka, and 5 with the sr, and average the times and see which is faster, or atleast thats how i look at it...hell i could be wrong, i really dont care tho...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (crazycuban @ Mar. 16 2002,2:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Who me, the S14 definately doesn't have a 400 lb weight disadvantage...hopefully you typed it wrong, but the S13 weighs around 2650, and the S14 2750.

And as far as people being happy with their hp, Ace is definately right...after putting in my SR, and having to deal with all this new power, I was pretty damn scared by it. Now I'm looking at injectors and turbos...and its only been about 3 weeks. Its just too damn easy to say "okay, I'll just leave it there"...

And I still don't get why the SR's aluminum is a disadvantage to the KA's iron block - the strength of the block only matters in high horsepower/boost situations, and the SR has been pushed much higher than the KA...sure, the sleeves have to be switched out on the SR, but the entire bottom end of the KA has to be switched out at lower hp levels than the SR.

Anyways, it pisses me off too when people call the KA a "truck engine"...hell, the B-series Honda engine is used in the CRV, but I've never heard that called a truck engine. It's just all relative...I talk to Honda oriented people about my dyno charts, and they remark on how torquey my engine is...the KA has even more torque than mine...import enthusiasts are just used to not having torque - for the most part, only American cars and import trucks are seen as having torque.

mmmmmmmm...L28...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I didn't type that wrong... Typical weights for KA+T cars are almost 3,000lbs due to the extra weight from the turbo and stuff. Stock weight can't be used because of that.

The S13 hatch wasn't a fully loaded model, and typically they come out to be around 2,600lbs.

It also didn't help that the S13 owner was pulling more stuff out of the car than originally agreed to...

[AceInHole]

but... if the SR really IS lighter... would it be that much lighter than a stock KA, let alone a KA with an extra 50+ lbs of turbo, FMIC, and assorted piping??

[DrDubbleB]

Grant, that's a bad argument to use there. &nbsp;I mean, by that argument, you are saying that the average truck motor is better than the average car motor. &nbsp;Well yes, truck motors may have a lot of power, that does not mean that they are meant to go fast. &nbsp;One example of a truck motor in you high school's drag racer, is not enough evidence to prove that argument. &nbsp;F1 cars do not use truck motors, neither do GT cars, or NASCARs (not even the NASCAR truck series). &nbsp;Wouldn't all of them use truck motors if they truly were better?
Why don't people realize that each motor has it's own personality, and it's own application and it's up the individual to decide which one they want. &nbsp;The only conclusion that there ever will be to this argument of "who's better" is no conclusion. &nbsp;Neither is better, neither is worse, it's up to the owner to bring out the full potential in both.

[AceInHole]

bringing this back because of semi-new developement:

The SR is used in the X-Trail, which is a mini-SUV. &nbsp;Does this mean that the ultimate form of the SR is to be used for girl-ish midget SUV's??? &nbsp;In this case, the SR is a truck engine, and a weak one at that.

So, now both engines are truck engines, and that means the CA must be the best inline 4-cylinder Nissan engine (or the FJ, but how much do we really know about the FJ).

Point being, calling the KA a truck block is worthless. &nbsp;It's like saying that the 350z (Altima, G35, and Maxima) uses a truck block because the VQ is in the Pathfinder.

[sykikchimp]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ May 13 2002,6:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">bringing this back because of semi-new developement:

The SR is used in the X-Trail, which is a mini-SUV. Does this mean that the ultimate form of the SR is to be used for girl-ish midget SUV's??? In this case, the SR is a truck engine, and a weak one at that.

So, now both engines are truck engines, and that means the CA must be the best inline 4-cylinder Nissan engine (or the FJ, but how much do we really know about the FJ).

Point being, calling the KA a truck block is worthless. It's like saying that the 350z (Altima, G35, and Maxima) uses a truck block because the VQ is in the Pathfinder.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
ROFLMFAO..

[tnord]

just couldn't let it die could you pj??
<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>

[camppain]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ May 14 2002,05:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">bringing this back because of semi-new developement:

The SR is used in the X-Trail, which is a mini-SUV. Does this mean that the ultimate form of the SR is to be used for girl-ish midget SUV's??? In this case, the SR is a truck engine, and a weak one at that.

So, now both engines are truck engines, and that means the CA must be the best inline 4-cylinder Nissan engine (or the FJ, but how much do we really know about the FJ).

Point being, calling the KA a truck block is worthless. It's like saying that the 350z (Altima, G35, and Maxima) uses a truck block because the VQ is in the Pathfinder.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
ahh yes straight from my signature......... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

[AceInHole]

damn... no SR kult members to argue with......

so far...

[camppain]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ May 14 2002,10:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">damn... no SR kult members to argue with......

so far...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
well it is actually the sr20vet in the xtrail not the sr20det.

so what if someone uses the sr16vvl n1 motor?

and why do idiots still choose to classify engines by what they came in?

if an engine is a deisel is that a truck motor? vw and audi shouldnt make cars then.

[Kreator]

Well I think i "kinda" figured it out from what people are saying. Where do we most often see sr swaps? On s13s, that have alot of milage on their engines... Now why is it an s13 in the first place? Some people might argue that they like s13s more than s14s, but really, why would you buy a 10 year old car if you could by a 5 year old car? My point is money. So therefore people that have less money to spend by s13s and do a SR swap because they got old engines. But they don't have enough to go all the way with their motor. On the other hand, most turbo KAs that i've seen belong to the s14 crowd (correct me if i'm wrong here), people that initially had money to buy a more expensive car. That implies that they have more money to spend on the upgrades as well....

that's my theory.....

[Coldsun]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (camppain @ May 12 2002,11:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ May 14 2002,05:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">bringing this back because of semi-new developement:

The SR is used in the X-Trail, which is a mini-SUV. Does this mean that the ultimate form of the SR is to be used for girl-ish midget SUV's??? In this case, the SR is a truck engine, and a weak one at that.

So, now both engines are truck engines, and that means the CA must be the best inline 4-cylinder Nissan engine (or the FJ, but how much do we really know about the FJ).

Point being, calling the KA a truck block is worthless. It's like saying that the 350z (Altima, G35, and Maxima) uses a truck block because the VQ is in the Pathfinder.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
ahh yes straight from my signature......... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Whoa that is right outta your sig
hahah
j/k

Yo this thread is major, i'm actually learning <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/nervous.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':nervous:'>
-Sun

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Coldsun @ May 13 2002,12:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (camppain @ May 12 2002,11:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ May 14 2002,05:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">bringing this back because of semi-new developement:

The SR is used in the X-Trail, which is a mini-SUV. Does this mean that the ultimate form of the SR is to be used for girl-ish midget SUV's??? In this case, the SR is a truck engine, and a weak one at that.

So, now both engines are truck engines, and that means the CA must be the best inline 4-cylinder Nissan engine (or the FJ, but how much do we really know about the FJ).

Point being, calling the KA a truck block is worthless. It's like saying that the 350z (Altima, G35, and Maxima) uses a truck block because the VQ is in the Pathfinder.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
ahh yes straight from my signature......... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Whoa that is right outta your sig
hahah
j/k

Yo this thread is major, i'm actually learning <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/nervous.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':nervous:'>
-Sun</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
baah... I was there when we were discussing that in chat. &nbsp;camp even mentioned that he was gonna put it in his sig IIRC. &nbsp;it just took the X-Trail example to further it. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

[camppain]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ May 14 2002,11:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Coldsun @ May 13 2002,12:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (camppain @ May 12 2002,11:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ May 14 2002,05:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">bringing this back because of semi-new developement:

The SR is used in the X-Trail, which is a mini-SUV. Does this mean that the ultimate form of the SR is to be used for girl-ish midget SUV's??? In this case, the SR is a truck engine, and a weak one at that.

So, now both engines are truck engines, and that means the CA must be the best inline 4-cylinder Nissan engine (or the FJ, but how much do we really know about the FJ).

Point being, calling the KA a truck block is worthless. It's like saying that the 350z (Altima, G35, and Maxima) uses a truck block because the VQ is in the Pathfinder.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
ahh yes straight from my signature......... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Whoa that is right outta your sig
hahah
j/k

Yo this thread is major, i'm actually learning <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/nervous.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':nervous:'>
-Sun</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
baah... I was there when we were discussing that in chat. camp even mentioned that he was gonna put it in his sig IIRC. it just took the X-Trail example to further it. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
now that i think of it i remeber u making your special appearences every now and then with a few noteworthy words and such <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

but you gotta admit it is a valid statement about the vq. after all


"its just a truck engine"

[S13Grl]

:)

[DuffMan]

A12 > ALL!!!

[Kreator]

lol, you shouldnt've done it :)

[NiteKids]

Phase 2 stock block SR20DET over 500HP

Jspec.com S14 463HP or so stock block 91 pump gas

I have a few more to add to the list too

[MrMigs]

wow... this post is soo old.

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by NiteKids
Phase 2 stock block SR20DET over 500HP
i recall Duy's engine dyno'ing at 545rwhp

[SimpleS14]

Damn this thread is OLD.


Anyone want to add the RB swap into this thread?

[nissan slut]

no

btw, has anyone else noticed the decreased interest in KAs since so many RB swaps have popped up? is anyone really tuning KAs as much as they used to?

[NiteKids]

Originally posted by AceInHole
i recall Duy's engine dyno'ing at 545rwhp

hmmm those internals sure werne't STOCK!

[SimpleS14]

Originally posted by nissan slut
no

btw, has anyone else noticed the decreased interest in KAs since so many RB swaps have popped up? is anyone really tuning KAs as much as they used to?

I believe the same goes for the SR swap...minus the S14 SR..

anywho interest in a KA-T will raise once some 240SX nut makes a monster KA-T or a company starts to make custom turbo kits for USDM Nissans.

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by NiteKids
hmmm those internals sure werne't STOCK!

iirc the phase2 motor's head wasn't stock either

[Sway500]

Derek Greaser has also run a 10 sec run with a hp number between 350-450 whp SR. That seems to be alot less hp than Duy had in his time. Where is this great car at now by the way.

Randall

[nissan slut]

Originally posted by AceInHole
iirc the phase2 motor's head wasn't stock either

um...wouldn't just changing the headgasket and cams be more than a little different (less difficult, more err, stock-ish) than changing pistons, rods, etc.?

[Kreator]

Originally posted by NiteKids
hmmm those internals sure werne't STOCK!

lol

a. duy's car actually put 600+ hp to the ground
b. the whole swap was between 7K and 8K <- exactly what you spend when you buy sr and get the turbo upgrade kit with ic and other bolt ons
c. Even if derek's sr ran 10s, it's prolly nothing butt dyno wise compared to duy's sr (tq vs hp).

You shouldve seen that vid from duy's car when he did that 10.8 sec run :drool:

As for where the car is at now.... Duy sold it, and someone else is owning it right now... I recall reading somewhere about it constantly blowing a head gasket..