Mazworx SRVQ Transmission Adapter Pt 1

[fatduece]

Mazworx SRVQ Transmission adapter kit


I've named this part 1 because its not a full review. My car still needs a few more parts before it can drive. I will continue updating this once I make more progress. Some might say, why not wait until everything is completed? I believe the initial review is just as important as the last.



After looking through the instructions and the parts, I felt a little disappointed. Up to this point, Mazworx never posted instructions or said what it took to get this to work. I tried calling, emailing, contacting through IG and never got a reply. So I took the risk and placed my order. (its my fault) If I had the chance to see the instructions prior to ordering, I would have gave this a second thought before spending $1750.

Some of the major points to keep in mind for those thinking about this, the instructions tell you to sawzall the bellhousing and cutoff 3/8" from the input shaft. This completely voids the warranty on my new $1800 transmission :picardfp: The welds on the tranny crossmember in this kit look questionable. I couldn't get any good pictures because of the poor lighting and its powder coated black. The shifter doesnt have any markings on it. Hopefully its not ebay.




http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/dohc1974/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsq0ymnfgg.jpeg

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/dohc1974/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsuizm5g43.jpeg

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/dohc1974/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsorclvdqz.jpeg



The shifter bracket is only held on by 2 bolts. Theres no support at the bottom like oem. I'm no engineer....I just hope it wont brake. I mean it shouldnt, as long as no one tries to sit on it :keke:


http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/dohc1974/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsyqgvvkiy.jpeg



Instructions


http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/dohc1974/Random%20ff/mazworx1_zpszgzx0z9b.jpg

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/dohc1974/Random%20ff/mazworx2_zpshzkfzyjj.jpg

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/dohc1974/Random%20ff/mazworx3_zps8ufeeo4u.jpg

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/dohc1974/Random%20ff/mazworx4_zpsg0bplely.jpg

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/dohc1974/Random%20ff/mazworx5_zpsyjymq949.jpg

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/dohc1974/Random%20ff/mazworx6_zpsziadkaaf.jpg








Part 2 coming in a couple months.

[ProjectPanda13]

Thanks for the informative post. I'm subscribing for updates. Hope all works out.
Latez

[TheRealSy90]

I also got my kit in the mail last week and wasn't 100% happy with what I received.


This was originally marketed as a COMPLETE kit, which it is not. The shifter does not come with the reverse lockout plate that goes on top of the shifter, or the spring that goes under the shifter cup. A new oem transmission does not come with these parts, and I've been having trouble finding these parts online to order them. Particularly the lockout plate. Also, it should have came with a linkage from the shifter to the gear select rod on the transmission, not requiring you to have somebody cut and then weld the original shift linkage. This could have easily been provided by Mazworx.


The kit was originally marketed as fitting in the factory shifter position. Sure, it fits in the area of the shift boot, but I did not expect to have to cut the shifter hole in the chassis multiple inches to accommodate their shifter. Especially when other companies have made shifters that DO fit in the stock shifter hole with no cutting required at all.
Bringing me to the shifter itself, it appears to be either a Circuit Sports or B&M Z33 short shifter, or even a cheap ebay knockoff of them. It is unclear what it is exactly. This was the most disappointing part in the kit as I fully expected a custom shifter solution made by Mazworx, and not just a relocation bracket. This is something I repeatedly inquired about since pre-ordering in November and never got a response on the matter until it showed up.


As far as warranty and trimming the input shaft, I can't imagine anybody warrantying the transmission anyways after you cut the bellhousing off, even if the input shaft didn't need to be trimmed.
From the beginning it was clear that the bellhousing would have to be cut off because it does not un bolt in the required area like an sr/ka trans does for example.


The welds on my transmission crossmember look great to me.


At this point I'm most likely going to be buying a shifter kit from another company for 3-400 more dollars, that is already complete and doesn't require additional parts to both be sourced, and have to have parts fabricated on my own. The shifter offered by InsaneDrifters seems to be the best thing available right now. Sadly I'm kind of wishing I would have went with an InsaneDrifters complete kit in the first place as it uses the factory dowel pins to center the input shaft unlike other adapter plates, and I could have had it at my door months ago for less money.

[Dboyizmlg]

DAMM, sucks they gave false advertisement on "100% complete kit".

I'm glad I didn't pre order it

[fatduece]

I never thought mazworx would do this. I feel emotionally raped =_= The shift linkage pisses me off. Its such a small item that it should have been part of the kit. I thought the whole point of this custom bellhousing was that you could use the factory shifter location without cutting shit. SHIT just dont add up :picardfp:

[derass]

I remember seeing the rendering of this on their website a while ago and was pretty excited. But now seeing how the bellhousing has to be cut off and the gap after assembly, doesn't really scream "precision", especially for the price. It's a nice part but like mentioned above, the stock design doesn't lend itself to being adapted to the SR easily.

How long has this been on the market now? Your kit is the first I've seen.

[RB25GUY]

Double post

[RB25GUY]

Gents, i think this will help out!

http://hokeperformance.squarespace.com/store/vq-swap-shifter-mount

[TheRealSy90]

I remember seeing the rendering of this on their website a while ago and was pretty excited. But now seeing how the bellhousing has to be cut off and the gap after assembly, doesn't really scream "precision", especially for the price. It's a nice part but like mentioned above, the stock design doesn't lend itself to being adapted to the SR easily.

How long has this been on the market now? Your kit is the first I've seen.

The first kits just shipped out a week or two ago. The gap after installing the bellhousing is completely dependent on how precise you want to be when you cut the transmission. If you want to take the time to make it a tight fit then it can be done with almost no gap. However even with the gap no parts of the transmission are "open" to debris since the new bellhousing is sealed to the front input shaft cover.


Gents, i think this will help out!

http://hokeperformance.squarespace.com/store/vq-swap-shifter-mount


This is no better than the shifter bracket that comes with the Mazworx kit. It looks to be almost the same exact positioning, and you still have to cut and weld the stock linkage. There are other shifters available that maintain the factory shifter position and don't require any additional welding or modifications on the installer's end.

[RB25GUY]

This is no better than the shifter bracket that comes with the Mazworx kit. It looks to be almost the same exact positioning, and you still have to cut and weld the stock linkage. There are other shifters available that maintain the factory shifter position and don't require any additional welding or modifications on the installer's end.



yea but for 20 bucks its an option to get the linkage re welded if it wasnt in the mazworx kit

[derass]

The gap after installing the bellhousing is completely dependent on how precise you want to be when you cut the transmission... However even with the gap no parts of the transmission are "open" to debris since the new bellhousing is sealed to the front input shaft cover.

Ah, now I see how that works. That's actually quite clever! I suppose a machinist could make a cleaner cut but now I see it`s not necessary. People on a budget can reduce cost by just making the cut themselves.

[Prok0]

No matter what you do, if you leave the shift linkeage in the factory configuration (i.e. all the joints still there, with reverse lock out still functional) you pretty much end up with a shifter that is still a few inches rear of where it would be on an SR/KA trans.

The only people i've seen come up with a solution that looks to be shorter is GK Tech which is not in full production yet.

There are things you can do to shorten the assembly up slightly more than just cutting out the linkeage and welding the two brackets to each other, and I went over them a little in a thread I posted awhile back.

http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?p=5894468&posted=1#post5894468

[fatduece]

Did you get the speedo to work?

[TheRealSy90]

No matter what you do, if you leave the shift linkeage in the factory configuration (i.e. all the joints still there, with reverse lock out still functional) you pretty much end up with a shifter that is still a few inches rear of where it would be on an SR/KA trans.



The only people i've seen come up with a solution that looks to be shorter is GK Tech which is not in full production yet.


Umm, the InsaneDrifters and the Serial9 shifters both retain reverse lockout, and sit right where the stock Ka/Sr shifter is located.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheRealSy90]

Bump. FYI Mazworx have heard our complaints. They are working on a V2 shifter solution now, as well as an installation video to cover everything. They said their main goal is to make the customers happy. So before I go with a different shifter solution I'll hold out and see what they come up with this time. Nice to hear they aren't leaving us out to dry though.

[fatduece]

I hope we can get reimbursed for the shifter>_>

[TheRealSy90]

Or at least some sort of trade in deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[richmond82]

I love Mazworx. They have pride in their work and will take care of you if any issue arises. Waiting for my z32 to s15sr trans kit

[Kylepaschke]

Another update
turns out the bellhousing isnt finished and now they must machine another section for 2nd gear...

[Rb26kouki]

Another update
turns out the bellhousing isnt finished and now they must machine another section for 2nd gear...



Huh?........

[fatduece]

He's on meth.

[Kylepaschke]

The bellhousing doesn't have proper clearance for 2nd gear selector.
They told me they will be giving me a return label to ship the bellhousing back to them for the machining. Otherwise I can try it myself. I'm not trying it myself tho

[Kylepaschke]

He's on meth.
lol incorrect

[TheRealSy90]

Yep, however as soon as they have confirmation that you shipped yours out, they're going to just ship you a new bellhousing that has the correct machining to clear the gear selector rod. I shipped my bellhousing back to them yesterday. That way you don't have to wait for yours to get done, faster for them to just exchange it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fatduece]

This shits f&cking stupid.

[Kylepaschke]

Truth, I already got one back. Not sure if its the same one I sent but yeah its already back

[rawgarage]

Damn thats wild fam

[joeapple8]

Would love to see updates, I was totally going to go with the MAZWORX kit after I complete by VE head swap.

[fatduece]

Damn thats wild famlol

Would love to see updates, I was totally going to go with the MAZWORX kit after I complete by VE head swap. Sorry fam...no updates. I should have some by the end of next month.

[mik5082]

maybe this shifter may help https://www.instagram.com/p/BDmzlORHENm/

i really wish Mazworx can sort this kit

[TheRealSy90]

It's sorted. However they aren't revising the shifter setup. It barely fits in S13 and slightly touches the shifter trim in 2nd, 4th, 6th and reverse. Since I don't feel like throwing another $300 on another shifter setup I'll probably just cut the shifter hole and trim :/

They said the current shifter was the most cost effective solution, although they offer the most expensive kit on the market. Guess it depends on how you look at it.

[makro86]

Got my hands on the latest prototype of the GKtech Z33 shifter. Pretty much close to a production product - I am quite impressed and can't wait to see how it drives. The shifts are great!

Photos/videos here...
https://www.instagram.com/kgarage_sr20vets/

[fatduece]

Thanks for the feedback. Looks good. I'm going to buy the shifter as soon as they release it. Your sh*T always looks top notch! Been following you for a while now.

[makro86]

Thanks for the feedback. Looks good. I'm going to buy the shifter as soon as they release it. Your sh*T always looks to notch! Been following you for a while now.

Thanks for the comments mate! Can't wait to get it going so I can see the past few years of work pay off hah!

[d_nice]

great kit. had the same issue hope everything goes well

[Kylepaschke]

http://s32.postimg.org/wqf3edv9h/IMG_1018.jpg
Finally got it all situated. I suggest new crossmember bolts and using a thread chaser to get the gunk out. Also, my MA Motorsports bracket hardware had to be trimmed down so that it wouldnt hit the shifter bracket. Other than that, I hammered out the tunnel near the drivers side right by where the cross member bolts up just for good measure.

[s13wes]

Just recently bought this kit. I don't think it's as bad as the initial comments on this thread. But yeah, for 1800 bucks you'd think it would be more thoroughly engineered. A lot better than the adapter plates where you have to machine off the face of the bell housing though.

Also works on the 370z transmission but you'll have to buy the clutch fork, springs, pivot ball, and slave unless you plan on buying the internal slave cylinder.
I asked Mazworx whether it worked and they pretty much said they didn't know.

[TheRealSy90]

Just recently bought this kit. I don't think it's as bad as the initial comments on this thread. But yeah, for 1800 bucks you'd think it would be more thoroughly engineered. A lot better than the adapter plates where you have to machine off the face of the bell housing though.

Also works on the 370z transmission but you'll have to buy the clutch fork, springs, pivot ball, and slave unless you plan on buying the internal slave cylinder.
I asked Mazworx whether it worked and they pretty much said they didn't know.

Why do you need to buy the fork, springs, pivot ball and slave if you use that stuff off of your sr20 transmission? I guess if you didn't have an sr transmission then yeah.


Information missing from this thread:


You MUST either change the pilot bushing to the newer and shorter NEEDLE pilot bearing, or shave the bronze bushing down 1/8" shorter or the input shaft will bottom out in the pilot/crank, even after trimming the input shaft as required in the instructions. I assume your crank thrust bearings will not be happy if you don't do this and start the engine.


If you have a Tomei stroker crank, the needle pilot will still bottom out on the input shaft as the crank is not machined out enough to allow it to be pressed in as far as an oem crankshaft. So I guess you'd need to use a bronze pilot and shorten it even more...

[Rb26kouki]

Why do you need to buy the fork, springs, pivot ball and slave if you use that stuff off of your sr20 transmission? I guess if you didn't have an sr transmission then yeah.


Information missing from this thread:


You MUST either change the pilot bushing to the newer and shorter NEEDLE pilot bearing, or shave the bronze bushing down 1/8" shorter or the input shaft will bottom out in the pilot/crank, even after trimming the input shaft as required in the instructions. I assume your crank thrust bearings will not be happy if you don't do this and start the engine.


If you have a Tomei stroker crank, the needle pilot will still bottom out on the input shaft as the crank is not machined out enough to allow it to be pressed in as far as an oem crankshaft. So I guess you'd need to use a bronze pilot and shorten it even more...



If that's the case I think mazworx should include the new shorter pilot bearing

[fatduece]

Information missing from this thread:


You MUST either change the pilot bushing to the newer and shorter NEEDLE pilot bearing, or shave the bronze bushing down 1/8" shorter or the input shaft will bottom out in the pilot/crank, even after trimming the input shaft as required in the instructions. I assume your crank thrust bearings will not be happy if you don't do this and start the engine.

Did you forget to use the recess tool to push the factory pilot bearing in further? Mazworx hasn't said anything, but then again they haven't said anything about the 2nd gear selector until someone ran into the problem. Makes me wonder if they've actually done any road tests.

[TheRealSy90]

Did you forget to use the recess tool to push the factory pilot bearing in further? Mazworx hasn't said anything, but then again they haven't said anything about the 2nd gear selector until someone ran into the problem. Makes me wonder if they've actually done any road tests.


No, this is after using the recess tool! I haven't installed mine yet this information is all from communications between a mazworx rep and some of the kit owners in a group chat we have in instagram lol.


And as far as I know they actually did not road test this kit because the car they prototyped it on was not available anymore when it was finished due to the owner moving.

[fatduece]

Man that's some bullshit! Do you have a link to the correct pilot bearing size?

[TheRealSy90]

Man that's some bullshit! Do you have a link to the correct pilot bearing size?

Like I said you either have to change the pilot to the newer "Nismo" needle pilot bearing. Or you have to machine 1/8" off of the copper bushing.

As far as which bearing is "better". Up to you to decide for yourself. I've seen pictures and posts of the roller bearings going out. However it doesn't require any modification...

[Kylepaschke]

Finally drove around with my mazworx kit and CBF shifter.
Everything works great!
Clutch adjustment needed to get into gear but thats a given.
If I had to do it again, I would simply buy the bellhousing and the driveshaft and trans mount from mazworx individually and get the serial nine shifter.

[Rb26kouki]

Finally drove around with my mazworx kit and CBF shifter.
Everything works great!
Clutch adjustment needed to get into gear but thats a given.
If I had to do it again, I would simply buy the bellhousing and the driveshaft and trans mount from mazworx individually and get the serial nine shifter.



What's wrong with the CBF?

[dwnshft2drft]

Finally drove around with my mazworx kit and CBF shifter.
Everything works great!
Clutch adjustment needed to get into gear but thats a given.
If I had to do it again, I would simply buy the bellhousing and the driveshaft and trans mount from mazworx individually and get the serial nine shifter.



Any issues slipping/burning clutches? Heard rumors from Australia changing clutch every year or couple of months...

[Kylepaschke]

Nothing is wrong with the cbf shifter at all, its just a little bit hard to find gears sometimes. I am sure i'll get used to it.
Not a single issue with burning up a clutch.
Had it on the dyno last night and the car made 330 wheel at 16 psi.

[dwnshft2drft]

So mazworx bell housing retains the SR flywheel/clutch of s13/14 or s15?

I really dont know if the mazworx bellhousing makes the z33 splines reach further through the SR clutch?

[MazworxUSA]

So mazworx bell housing retains the SR flywheel/clutch of s13/14 or s15?

I really dont know if the mazworx bellhousing makes the z33 splines reach further through the SR clutch?

Our kit retains the S13/14 single-mass flywheel, if you have an S15 dual-mass you will have to convert to a single-mass design.

[dwnshft2drft]

Our kit retains the S13/14 single-mass flywheel, if you have an S15 dual-mass you will have to convert to a single-mass design.



And no spacer required for the flywheel?

[Rb26kouki]

And no spacer required for the flywheel?



No, http://www.mazworx.com/Docs/10145-SRVQ-Adapter-Kit.pdf

[MazworxUSA]

And no spacer required for the flywheel?

Yes, there is no spacer involved in this kit, when using our kit it converts the Z33 box to an SR box as far as the bellhousing is concerned, meaning you can use an SR flywheel, clutch, release bearing, slave cylinder, pivot fork, pivot ball, and anything else that I may have missed associated with the bellhousing.

I also read further up about the pilot/roller bearing issue. We now send the roller bearing by default with the kit. We hadn't had to trim a standard style pilot bushing till we tested the kit on an S15 block, after that and the issue with the Tomei crankshafts we felt it would be best to just include the roller style which is shorter to avoid any issues with crankshaft variants.

[Kylepaschke]

Four Drift Days down with my setup.

All is well!

[TheRealSy90]

You can use an SR flywheel, clutch, release bearing, slave cylinder, pivot fork, pivot ball, and anything else that I may have missed associated with the bellhousing.

I know this is a long shot but hear me out. Since OsGiken requires a different release bearing sleeve depth for their twin disc TS2BD clutch. This sleeve "SHOULD" also be the right depth when paired with the Mazworx bellhousing, correct? The sleeves range from 12mm to 32mm thickness and I believe I ordered the 16 or 18mm sleeve, whichever was specific for the s13 sr20 transmission. I'm having trouble finding the actual documents that list everything out.

[MazworxUSA]

I know this is a long shot but hear me out. Since OsGiken requires a different release bearing sleeve depth for their twin disc TS2BD clutch. This sleeve "SHOULD" also be the right depth when paired with the Mazworx bellhousing, correct? The sleeves range from 12mm to 32mm thickness and I believe I ordered the 16 or 18mm sleeve, whichever was specific for the s13 sr20 transmission. I'm having trouble finding the actual documents that list everything out.

The bellhousing is cast and machined to match the inner size of the OEM bellhousing, so in theory yes it would work, however: due to the endless clutch combinations offered for the SR20 we can't verify fitment for every set-up.

[TheRealSy90]

The bellhousing is cast and machined to match the inner size of the OEM bellhousing, so in theory yes it would work, however: due to the endless clutch combinations offered for the SR20 we can't verify fitment for every set-up.


That's understandable. I guess the best thing to do would be to install the bellhousing by itself, and make sure the clearance between the bearing and pressure plate is correct. I believe it's supposed to have a slight gap when off the pedal.

[MazworxUSA]

Four Drift Days down with my setup.

All is well!

Awesome to hear!

[Kylepaschke]

Six drift days down with the setup and since I last checked in, the last 2 drift days were SUPER hard days lol lets just say i was beating on it pretty good and no issues what so ever.

[D-Clem]

Six drift days down with the setup and since I last checked in, the last 2 drift days were SUPER hard days lol lets just say i was beating on it pretty good and no issues what so ever.

Awesome! About to purchase this setup myself, just debating on buying the driveshaft and shifter now or doing a shaftmasters aluminum and serial 9 shifter. I love everything about this kit except the driveshaft costs compared to others, however I don’t know who makes the driveshafts so maybe they are amazing and made by DSS, no idea, but ideally I’d like to save a bit if anyone has used the shaftmasters srvq driveshaft and knows if it fits. I’ve heard good things about them. Just can’t justify an extra 225 if it’s the same specs. HOWEVER I will pay a little more because I know it’s right and will bolt right in and be guaranteed just not really keen on that much of a price difference. That’s the part I’m struggling with, can anyone convince me I’m out of line and tell me why it’s worth the extra on theirs? I’m not being an ass I’m seriously wondering because I like paying for quality and would like to understand if I’m missing something.

[hanzbrady]

Awesome! About to purchase this setup myself, just debating on buying the driveshaft and shifter now or doing a shaftmasters aluminum and serial 9 shifter. I love everything about this kit except the driveshaft costs compared to others, however I don’t know who makes the driveshafts so maybe they are amazing and made by DSS, no idea, but ideally I’d like to save a bit if anyone has used the shaftmasters srvq driveshaft and knows if it fits. I’ve heard good things about them. Just can’t justify an extra 225 if it’s the same specs. HOWEVER I will pay a little more because I know it’s right and will bolt right in and be guaranteed just not really keen on that much of a price difference. That’s the part I’m struggling with, can anyone convince me I’m out of line and tell me why it’s worth the extra on theirs? I’m not being an ass I’m seriously wondering because I like paying for quality and would like to understand if I’m missing something.

They're made by PST (Precision Shaft Technologies) in Florida. I have one in my dad's Nova and that's a BBC with a turbo 400 that leaves on spray with the transbrake. That car has a 3.5" aluminum with 1350 yokes and I don't foresee it dying anytime soon.

Not bashing DSS at all I actually have their aluminum driveshaft in my SR powered 240. I'd personally just go with the aluminum option on the Mazworx site if you purchase it just to keep things simple, plus those shafts have a 3-5 day ship time which is pretty good imo.

As per the shift opt out of it if you don't want to cut the chassis, it functions great, it's just not in everyone's ideal location is all.

[D-Clem]

They're made by PST (Precision Shaft Technologies) in Florida. I have one in my dad's Nova and that's a BBC with a turbo 400 that leaves on spray with the transbrake. That car has a 3.5" aluminum with 1350 yokes and I don't foresee it dying anytime soon.

Not bashing DSS at all I actually have their aluminum driveshaft in my SR powered 240. I'd personally just go with the aluminum option on the Mazworx site if you purchase it just to keep things simple, plus those shafts have a 3-5 day ship time which is pretty good imo.

As per the shift opt out of it if you don't want to cut the chassis, it functions great, it's just not in everyone's ideal location is all.


Nice, yea I’m in Jax so I’ve heard of them. That’s good to know, I decided to get everything minus the shifter and driveshaft I believe. I think after talking with shaftmasters this morning I’m going to have them build one once I get it in. I would love to just spend the money on theirs and be done but man $150 is upgraded wrist pins from you guys since I’ll be ordering my pistons/rods from Real Street shortly. I’ve got a lot to get done here before I go to put the trans in but it’s going to be sick!

[hanzbrady]

Nice, yea I’m in Jax so I’ve heard of them. That’s good to know, I decided to get everything minus the shifter and driveshaft I believe. I think after talking with shaftmasters this morning I’m going to have them build one once I get it in. I would love to just spend the money on theirs and be done but man $150 is upgraded wrist pins from you guys since I’ll be ordering my pistons/rods from Real Street shortly. I’ve got a lot to get done here before I go to put the trans in but it’s going to be sick!

Haha, well not to junk up the thread PM me whenever you're ready man.

[Sr20-Vert]

How do I intill this Reverse lockout anyone mazworx anyone know I think u put in six gear and set the plate to shifter not sure

[Jorgs_7]

How do I intill this Reverse lockout anyone mazworx anyone know I think u put in six gear and set the plate to shifter not sure

Just call Mazworx and chat with them..

[RalliartRsX]

How do I intill this Reverse lockout anyone mazworx anyone know I think u put in six gear and set the plate to shifter not sure

.......like the FSM states


P.S is your constant MO to NOT do you due diligence in researching ANY bit of information prior to just opening your wallet or do you rely solely on Zilvia to spoon feed every inkling of information we ourselves have diligently gathered over time?? You consistently post questions which are a 2 sec google search away from getting answered. Yet, you wait days (and in most cases weeks) for an answer you could have figured for yourself in mins.

Maybe I should just go post in the old grumpy thread........although I am atleast a 1 - 3 decades away from being classified as hold :doh: