Sr20det head build.

[running_sideways]

Just got my bottom end done new apr main studs acl bearing manly rods and cp Pistons. had a bit of a hang up had to get it line honed and now my clearances are all correct.

Now on to the head.

Any good tips on port and polish or should I even bother. I know more polished surfaces in return help with heat and more power. but if not done completely correct I've heard it can rob more than help.

I've changed out valve guides and seals. Now I'm looking for a good set up for cams, springs, retainers, etc. solid lifters or the normal oe hydraulic.

Just need some good input thanks guys


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[running_sideways]

Also sorry if it's a noob question new to actually using zilvia


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[derass]

What turbo will you be using? How much power do you want to make?

I think modifying the head has a lot to do with your horsepower goal. I know for about 400whp, porting is not required. However, I know a guy who was making 600+whp and was using a ported head.

As for valvetrain selection, it's important to match those components to the turbo you are using and expected powerband. For example: 256's for a 300whp setup, 260's for 400 and 270's for 450+. I am also a firm believer in using cams and springs from the same manufacturer.

In my research, I could not find any instances of stock retainers bending/failing and would personally not bother upgrading to titanium. However, if you're going all out, their reduced mass lend themselves to higher RPM operation.

Finally, hydraulic vs solid lifters. With increased lift and seat pressure, the stock lifters have trouble staying open and you will not achieve maximum valve lift. Solid lifters prevent this but require additional setup and maintenance. I'd say at 450+ you'd require solid lifters.

[running_sideways]

Looking at a 3871r turbo. I'm going for 350 to 400 hp just a reliable horse power.

I am with you bc cam bc springs and bc retainers so I guess I'll be going with a 260 cam and stick with the hydros till next year any input about slotted sprockets and hks rocker arm stoppers?


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[running_sideways]

Trying for "reliable" power


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[derass]

Is that a typo or are you talking about the ISIS RS3871R? Because I would seriously avoid that. You'd be much better off with something "name-brand" like Garrett, Borg-Warner or Tomei.

You should also avoid all of that BC stuff. Do some research around here and you'll find it's no good. Many people swear by JWT cams without upgraded springs and there is much evidence to support that. However, I had another friend lose his motor because he experienced valve-float with S3's and stock springs. For that reason, I think Tomei 260's and upgraded springs are the better choice. That combination offers similar performance and added peace of mind from the springs for approximately the same cost as JWT cams alone.

If you get quality cams like Tomei, JWT or HKS there is no need for adjustable sprockets. They are "dialed in" quite well from the factory. Sure, you can squeeze out a bit more power by degreeing those cams, but the cost of dyno time outweighs the minimal gains IMO. Again, if you read up about the BC stuff, you'll find they need to be degreed just to get them the work properly.

As for RAS, I would avoid them. In the event the motor throws or breaks a rocker, the RAS can keep the dislodged/broken piece in place, hold the valve open as the piston is coming back up and cause internal damage. Without stoppers, the rocker is likely to be thrown clear, and the valve will close preventing further damage.

[running_sideways]

Well it was just a thought on the Isis. Really all the experience I've had with turbos have been holsets and Borg-warner(semi applications)like I said I've just started doing little research. Still getting my feet wet around the site.

As far as bc domestic engines I've had good luck. Sbc/sbf, so I'm still getting to figure out what's best with the jdm engines that's why I'm asking. I believe in any kind of performance cams i don't care what it is always do springs...just makes me feel better.

that's what I was reading for the rocker arm stoppers. Then there's people out there that say different. I really don't care about opinions I just want facts and what's correct.

Derass thanks for the know how and guidance. It's a little bit different from working on my norm everyday push tube domestic and semis at the my job.


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[derass]

No problem.

If you haven't found it yet, take a look at this thread. There is a lot of discussion about the combination of parts that yield 300-420whp mainly surrounding the Garrett GT2871R: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=124925

[running_sideways]

No problem.

If you haven't found it yet, take a look at this thread. There is a lot of discussion about the combination of parts that yield 300-420whp mainly surrounding the Garrett GT2871R: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=124925


Awesome thread! That's exactly why I'm looking for response more then over the top power. Looking to try out scca racing this summer in northern Midwest region. I'm going to keep an eye out for a gt2871r if you come across a good deal shoot me message or something or should I buy new.I think I have a really good idea now what in going to be building.


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[running_sideways]

Gt2871r.64. Would be ideal


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[Bleakley]

Just got my bottom end done new apr main studs acl bearing manly rods and cp Pistons. had a bit of a hang up had to get it line honed and now my clearances are all correct.

Now on to the head.

Any good tips on port and polish or should I even bother. I know more polished surfaces in return help with heat and more power. but if not done completely correct I've heard it can rob more than help.

I've changed out valve guides and seals. Now I'm looking for a good set up for cams, springs, retainers, etc. solid lifters or the normal oe hydraulic.

Just need some good input thanks guys


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Bravo on that bottom end package (Manley/CP/ACL/ARP)
I would compliment it with Mazworx machining, personally (if you decide to go the route of getting the head worked on). Head over to their website.

As far as cams and a gt2871r, I recommend the JWT S3's, the S3HL's, and the S4's.

If I may also recommend.. If you're retaining stock intake manifold and exhaust manifold. Send em out for extrude honing. (shifts power upwards without sacrificing too much bottom end).

[running_sideways]

Thanks man! It put quite a dent in my pocket but I'm good now.

Mazworx do any port and polish work?im going to have to check out there site.

I wish they had a package deal on the JWD camshaft springs retainers. I wanna make sure everything's down to the "gnats ass" if I'm putting money into it I want the best. On that note back to the searching!


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[running_sideways]

And holy shit...billet sr20 blocks...mazworx top notch shop lol


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[bmxer882x]

Back on the subject of turbo's, I have a holset hy35, starts spooling around 2700, full boost by 3500 or so. Check out the holset thread. I hope to have dyno sheets soon.

Another 2871r copy is the twisted motion gt2871r. Apparently they rpm balance their turbo's.

[running_sideways]

I do have a holset hx35 that I got from a totaled dodge cummins thought its a little over kill tho...


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[bmxer882x]

Hx35 has a rather large 12cm^2 exhaust housing. Would be perfect for a bep .64 housing tho. The hy has a 9cm^2 which if I recall was around a .63

[running_sideways]

Is that a typo or are you talking about the ISIS RS3871R? Because I would seriously avoid that. You'd be much better off with something "name-brand" like Garrett, Borg-Warner or Tomei.

You should also avoid all of that BC stuff. Do some research around here and you'll find it's no good. Many people swear by JWT cams without upgraded springs and there is much evidence to support that. However, I had another friend lose his motor because he experienced valve-float with S3's and stock springs. For that reason, I think Tomei 260's and upgraded springs are the better choice. That combination offers similar performance and added peace of mind from the springs for approximately the same cost as JWT cams alone.

If you get quality cams like Tomei, JWT or HKS there is no need for adjustable sprockets. They are "dialed in" quite well from the factory. Sure, you can squeeze out a bit more power by degreeing those cams, but the cost of dyno time outweighs the minimal gains IMO. Again, if you read up about the BC stuff, you'll find they need to be degreed just to get them the work properly.

As for RAS, I would avoid them. In the event the motor throws or breaks a rocker, the RAS can keep the dislodged/broken piece in place, hold the valve open as the piston is coming back up and cause internal damage. Without stoppers, the rocker is likely to be thrown clear, and the valve will close preventing further damage.


What do you think on this choice? Couldn't find much for tomei matching springs :/http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/03/161fcf692217dfd2305da99c66a4e542.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/03/2feb8b0a48633942801935f8b16b8d66.jpg


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[running_sideways]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/03/d2eaa8da1329cf2222db92abf96e49b4.jpg


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[derass]

Here are the Tomei springs: http://www.enjukuracing.com/products/tomei-valve-springs-nissan-sr20det.html

There are 2 different sets: Type A and Type B. Type A is only upgraded single springs. Type B is double springs and titanium retainers. For a typical 400whp build, the Type A kit is sufficient.

You can read more about it here: https://www.tomeiusa.com/_2003web-catalogue/e095_valvespring.html

[running_sideways]

Holy shit. Type b is almost 800 bones. Tomei 260/260 should be ideal with the spring combo meal with fries.


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[running_sideways]

Think I might get they're titanium retainers just for shits and gigs


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[Kingtal0n]

here is the problem I see if this is going to be a daily. You have a forged bottom end capable of holding 500-600 horsepower, and you intent to run the engine at OEM acceptable power levels (350~) from a 2871r turbo.

You can buy a stock engine and put that turbo on it with an S3 cam and be done, driving for 140,000+ miles. The way you are going now you risk getting 20,000 miles from the engine and it may become a part out, like so many others.

I hope this is a race-car only type engine, and you do not intend to cold start/drive or get any significant mileage out of it. big cams, heavy springs, forged pistons, tri-coat bearing, all of that is race car stuff, intended for big turbos and high RPM duty. And if it is a race-car engine, you need a larger turbo or all that $$$ in the bottom end doesn't quite make sense. There is alot of power potential in the exhaust manifold design that you absolutely need to unlock if you wish to take advantage of that enormous piston/wall clearance. Full race manifold with a top mounted 60 or 70lb/min turbo is what I would be using with that bottom end. You'll also want to be running E85, and an AEM EMS or Megasquirt, with a flex-fuel sensor, and a real fuel pump. And an accumulator, possible remote regulated oil cooler with a well thought out baffle/custom oil scavenging PCV system, the pcv system and how you handle oil flow will actually be a key feature on that engine, you will certainly wish to maintain a vacuum in the crankcase at all times and monitor it if possible.

Headwork is always possible, you can put hundred thousand dollars into a head/design easy. For budget reasons, it is often a more affordable power/dollar by increasing turbocharger capability first, and then if you still need more consider the head, induction, anything can be custom. The point is that the less custom, the more we work with OEM parts, the more affordable and possibly consistent the operation will be. Why I am all over this is because the mentality that "Ill drive it stock for now, and upgrade later" means that you are putting miles on your expensive built engine that could have gone on an OEM engine instead. Its like having mighty mouse babysit, any regular mouse would do just fine for that. If I had that engine but not enough funds to fully dress it with E85 and a big turbo I would run the OEM engine untl I could afford to implement everything at once. When you break that motor in for the first time you want to be doing it with real boost, getting those pistons fully warmed up and promoting the conditions for which the engine will be run for its entire life. Do many compression tests and log the results as accurately as possible.

I am not against race car engines for daily drivers, I realized you might get that impression but I want to squish that out right away. The key to making (what everyone seems to miss) it live once all the spaces are set right is in the oil control, that it cost more to have a reliable race car engine than just rods/pistons, you need to back them up with a race car oil system, dry sump type design in some cases. Then we can start talking about head work, machining/filing to places in the engine to improve oil flow, heavy springs big cams, now you have a real exhaust manifold and efficient gate, everything is coated, the piston skirts are coated, the exhaust manifold is coated, your input shaft is cryo treated, blankets, the big list is big

[Bleakley]

^^^For the most part I'd listen... Lol. Good stuff.^^^

The cylinder head though, is EVERYTHING.

[Croustibat]

You want easy and reliable power ? gtx2867r (or efr equivalent), stock everything in the head.
You will get your 400HPs and more (and blown gearboxes, they don't like 350+HP unless you don't use them, or use crappy tires).

[running_sideways]

It's not going to be a everyday winter driver summer weekend driver. Looking for reliability. Haven't had time to read all the comments will get back to you guys after work! Thanks again for everyone's opinion


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[derass]

gtx2867r (or efr equivalent), stock everything in the head. You will get your 400HPs

Can you post any examples of this? I've asked this question before in the 2871 thread and it the consensus was that upgraded cams are required for 400whp. I know the GTXs are more efficient but this seems like a stretch.

[Croustibat]

The SR20 comes as standard in S14 in our country, so there are quite a lot, and not so much build threads.

I can show you this one, although it had headwork ... and a very restricted exhaust. It did well over 450hp without the 5" long, 1.75" diameter jasma restriction. The dyno is a known pessimistic one, too.
https://vimeo.com/65543081

You need to understand the gearbox wont hold that power level. You want a Z33 gearbox (like in this vid)

[Bleakley]

You want easy and reliable power ? gtx2867r (or efr equivalent), stock everything in the head.
You will get your 400HPs and more (and blown gearboxes, they don't like 350+HP unless you don't use them, or use crappy tires).

Just go GTX2871R. Done. Period. No need to play games. You're spending that much money, shit.

[mewantkouki]

My car: Oem rebuild, apexi 1.1mm head gasket, .64 gt28714, supertech single springs, hks step 1 cams, Nismo 555cc's and a great tune. Fun factory 2016 Don't waste time with those rocker arm stoppers, use a stiffer valve spring.

[jr_ss]

My car: Oem rebuild, apexi 1.1mm head gasket, .64 gt28714, supertech single springs, hks step 1 cams, Nismo 555cc's and a great tune. Fun factory 2016 Don't waste time with those rocker arm stoppers, use a stiffer valve spring.

Or the dual guide shim modification...

PnP isn't really needed for the power levels you are going to achieve on that turbo. Save the funds for something else.

[running_sideways]

Sorry guys been really busy getting parts wrangled car cleaned up and figured out. Hopefully getting the block back from the machine shop tomorrow...its been two weeks. But on other. Note I seen everyone's comment on longevity. Let's say you guys were building a head for decent performance and longevity. What would be your set up.


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[TheRealSy90]

Dual rocker arm guides, JWT S4 cams. That's it for the head build.


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[Bleakley]

Honestly.. Something similar to what he said. It's not worth it to put any serious money into he det head. The money you spend on the det head is worthless at that point while the VE head swap is an option.

[SoundEfx]

I hope that this is not a thread jack, but the answer could benefit the op as well if they don't already know.

But why is the VE head a better option than the DE-T head?
I would think that the head developed for boost would have a better flow.

[Bleakley]

Airflow...
The VE head flows way more than any DET head.

AND shaft-mounted rockers.

[SoundEfx]

Thanks for that info.
It's weird that the head designed for boost is beaten by a standard one.

[Kingtal0n]

Sorry guys been really busy getting parts wrangled car cleaned up and figured out. Hopefully getting the block back from the machine shop tomorrow...its been two weeks. But on other. Note I seen everyone's comment on longevity. Let's say you guys were building a head for decent performance and longevity. What would be your set up.


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Longevity you say?

some stuff
OEM or near OEM spring rate springs
JWT S3 or S4 camshafts
valve job, ferrea valves, titanium retainers, guides (if you are in there anyways)
OEM engine bearings
tight piston/wall clearance
brand new oil pump
doctor clean assembly room
do not deck the block or shave the head if possible
7k redline max, since this is a .0008"~ main bearing and using 10W-30 oil for longevity/economy

Your engine is probably getting a tri-coat bearing (non OEM) with a .0022" clearance, and an enormous piston wall clearance as well. If so, you will need a thicker oil (the assembler would probably recommend a 40W or 50W oil) cold starts with will very rough on the engine, put additional wear on the cylinder walls and engine bearings, due to the massive clearances. Those clearances are there so you can make 500-600bhp, which is why I said to use a 60lb/min turbo and not a baby nearly OEM size turbo like the 2871.

[JesusFreakDrifter]

I hope a ve vs. det debate doesn't ensue, I would love to see more options on de and det heads as well as some others