Make drifting profitable? Your thoughts

[collegekid]

First off, let me say this about myself so you can make some general assumption about why I say what I say. I am 23. I love cars. My mom says I came out her vagina with a hot wheels in my hand. Mattel was not good enough.
I have always been obsessed with cars. I originally went to college to be a doctor because of the asian parent influence of "Be a doctor, lawyer, or engineer."
I got an intership in my third year at a company I wont name. I learned a lot of about healthcare in the US and I said no thank you. I also didn't want to be in school until I was 28 or 30. I stopped fighting what was really tugging at my heart and went to mechanical engineering.

With that said, I own a 96 240sx restoration project and a daily driver impreza rs coupe. I have never been to any racing event nor do I plan on attending. I haven't watched any drifting videos in years.

I still choose to comment on this issue (mostly because I am running away from my academic responsibilities AKA Finals week(s))

If this has already been posted please delete this or move it, whatever you deem appropriate.


Some Euro drifting competition series wants to phase out older (namely anything pre 1996) cars to try and bring newer cars in and make the sport appealing to sponsors and fans and etc etc. Super street made an article about and several other sites have responded to that idea, most from guys who participated in drifting many years ago and have been involved for a long time.

This is just part of the article from speedhunters

http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/11/drifting-needs-order-progress/


The Drift Allstars series, which runs large-scale competition events across Europe, recently put forward to its driver base (albeit not publicly, yet) an upcoming change to its rulebook which struck me as a bold move. It was certainly one that made me contemplate the different reactions that it would have across the many facets of the competition. As of the upcoming 2016 season, the proposal is that cars made in 1996 or earlier are to be phased out of the Drift Allstars rulebook. It doesn’t matter if production of said chassis continued on past 1996 – if your specific car was built before then, it won’t be allowed in the competition. The change is to be brought in gradually, so that next season the series will allow one-time or part-season entries in pre-1996 chassis, but no full-season campaigns.




Another one here

http://www.everythingdrift.com/blog/?p=18204


But it will also change the way the game is played.
It will change who can afford to play.
It will push out the everyday Joe who has a talent for driving.
It will change the reason why we drift.
worst of all… It will shape the fans of drifting.

It will become a spectator sport and nothing more.
Speed hunter is right. We all love a couple of really fast 1000hp cars dragging cumulonimbus clouds of smoke behind them. making god choke on rubber. We all love it. But sometimes we enjoy the finesse it takes to keep up with a 1000hp car when you only have 600.

I enjoy watching a guy with a single slammer ka24 slide threw a 4th gear turn by pure speed alone.
knowing there are guys out there with little to no power on there back wheels and they can keep a car sideways for days with just talent alone proves to me ‘initial D’ was real.

I have more respect for someone with no power touge’ing a mountain top faster with less smoke but pushing the car past its limit seamlessly swaying the back end around like a pendulum. I rather that than loud and smokey. Maybe I am getting old.




I am just going to cut and paste what I posted already
-This affects the majority of drivers. This drives up the cost of the sport which is already expensive.
In the same sense, imagine colleges and universities telling all students that everyone has to live on campus. They make some bullshit statistic about how students who live on campus get better grades than commuters. They call it progress.

Same shit here.

Reality is that the people who organize the events, the corporate people AKA people who do not directly participate in the sport, want to make more money. They call it progress.

Look at healthcare in the US. Before it used to be about actually helping people. Now it is one of the most profitable industries in the world. I have not met one US citizen who pays for their own healthcare tell me that they are happy with this “progress”

If you still want to compare it to the automotive world, think back to the early 2000’s when all the Japanese parts were super expensive. I don’t recall anything going down in price until the knockoffs started showing up. People naturally want to spend less money so they flocked to the knockoffs and then the major companies lowered their prices a little but it was just too little too late. Think about how many knockoff companys exist today that are so ingrained as quality that we don’t even recognize them as knockoffs anymore.

I just hope they realize what the consequences will be before its too late. They will shoot themselves in the foot by doing this.


What do you guys think?

In b4 "look at this asshole trying to get us to give him content for his final paper for some dumbass liberal arts class"

No. I don't have a single photo of my car on my facebook in the past 2 years. I dont wear automotive t shirts to school and I don't start fights with car enthusiasts who have different views than I do.

I just want to see if you people can make valid points without attacking someone or something directly. I just want to hear some logic come out of someone elses mouth instead of the same old stale shit that members of this forum display.


It is very clear that they want to make more money from drifting.
What they say makes sense about creating a demand for parts for newer chassis if they ban the older models, forcing people to use the newer chassis. I think the response from the drivers is that they will just pick up the cheapest available chassis, so it will just be cars from the late 90's and early 2000s. Drifting still takes a decent amount of skill so no matter how many 2010 mustangs show up, a Chaser, Gs300 or Rx8 can still win. I think they are overselling it because it sounds good on paper but won't bring about the response they hoped for, much like Communism.

[mhubeny180sx]

well, that sucks, guess ill just upgrade to my new Lamborghini next season when I apply for formula D in the hollywood hills.

[Dat_SilEighty]

No matter how much of a hardcore grass-roots drift fan you are, it’s infinitely more enjoyable to watch high-powered, purpose-built shiny and fresh automobiles sliding inches from each other than revamped and reworked 25-plus-year-old Nissans and Toyotas.

http://40.media.tumblr.com/1f082839c9f4037aff71fae7ef4b996b/tumblr_nsqqtdUNxD1rw0ifto1_1280.jpg

[Hazard240]

Well. Get ready for the BMW DRIFT CHAMPIONSHIP OF EUROPE. Fucking smart move board.:picardfp:

[dizzariot]

I just want to see if you people can make valid points without attacking someone or something directly. I just want to hear some logic come out of someone elses mouth instead of the same old stale shit that members of this forum display.



You're the other part of that problem: the over-bearing zealot that thinks he can change the way the forum operates.

Get the fuck over yourself. You try to White Knight in every fucking thread. Just do your God damn school work.

That's EUROPE. Formula D is already a fucking sham here. That's why Final Bout is the best thing since Emma Watson studying to become a yoga instructor. In any country drifting can be kept alive by a small group of people that have the drive and desire to keep it grassroots. My question back to you is why does this matter? If you like drifting you'll find ways to drift.

We get it, you're smart. I like to be smart as well...but not on fucking Zilvia.

[racepar1]

Does anyone actually care?

Just curious...

:-/

[mhubeny180sx]

Does anyone actually care?

Just curious...

:-/

nope, don't care about this top tier professional drifting so its all koguchi men.

[RB25GUY]

If you ever notice once a Motorsport becomes very popular and its source of income sky rockets it becomes boring, pretty much all the same setups to stay competitive, and the politics just ruins the spirit of the sport. soon enough drifting sponsors will want a certain type of driver nationality etc to fit the image they want, the drivers who are able will be canceled out by the mediocre driver who has connections or the money.... Imo for drifting its gonna be all down hill with all this pro series' 1000hp bs its almost unobtainable to become a formula d driver unless you have endless amounts of cash or sponsors. grassroots drifting is the foundation the mom and pops stores in or drifting ecomony the more we contribute to them the more fun we have and the more we KEEP DRIFTING FUN. Drifting was never about money that can be made, now you mention drifting 9 times outta 10 people will just dwell on the money aspect.

[brndck]

grassroots is rad. I can't imagine ever spending another dollar to go to FormulaD.
(i will however, go to Thursday night drift events at irwindale, technically its "hosted" by FD)

[ShakotanGazelle]

grassroots is rad. I can't imagine ever spending another dollar to go to FormulaD.

QFT.
Only pro racing worth even watching is imsa grand am IMO.


One reason why drifting isn't profitable is because of the demographic group it's aimed at: the everyday joe who wants to go fast, cheap.
The only way to make money off cars is building/working on REAL racecars. Not 20y/o garbage econoboxes.

[Reece]

No no no no no fucking no.

Money ruins everything.

It's shown in the past. For example, look at NASCAR years ago before it was about making money and look at it now. Look at F1 years ago and look at it now. Look at basically any sport or any hobby before it was about making money and look at it now.

Drift Allstars is stupid as shit in my opinion, and so is Formula Drift.

I'm not gonna buy a new car every few years just because some stupid fucking rulebook says I should. Competitive drifting is retarded 99% of the time. Just go to an event and drive your car and have fun for the love of all things holy.

That speedhunters article is retarded.

[Croustibat]

It is very clear that they want to make more money from drifting. How would you suggest they do that without banning so many cars?

I suggest you actually learn how to organize such championship and events. Then you'd have the right to talk about it.

I live in France, i have witnessed how drift became an official discipline (I know the people who pushed to make it happen, not very personnally but i can see them often).

So called grassroot drifters didn't like it, because suddenly there were rules they had to follow, and suddenly they realized skill is one thing, but competitive racing and security means budget. Suddenly their drift missile was not allowed to run anymore on a karting circuit; they had to pay for a rollcage, an electrical cutoff switch, a fire extinguishing system, harnesses and bucket seat. Suddenly they had to pay higher entry fees to pay for the track and the officials - which for quite a lot of them don't get paid BTW ...

That is the difference between a dorifto kiddo and a grassroot racer. The cars in the french championship are very far from the monsters you get in the US. Basically, they are grassroot racers. Just no dorifto kids that think they can become D.K. because they score perfect drifts on forza or need for speed ...

Considering how these guys worked and still work their asses to make it happen, I really don't see the problem. I don't think they are actually making money out of it, but even if they were ... what is wrong with making money with hard work ? Wrenching on a car is one thing, but clearly you have no idea the kind of work involved in organizing a championship ...

I can't see how baning old cars suddenly becomes a money issue. considering the price of running a competitive drift car, the shell price means nothing ... get a gt86/brz shell, swap all the gear you had in that S chassis, job done.

[tuzzio]

Who gives a fuck about how they want to make money?

Grassroots will always be cooler, sourcing new spots for events anyways

The only thing that needs to die stateside about drifting is the missile car trend. Take a little pride in your shitbox.

[Jibbberish]

Nobody cares about FD euro. Let the hyped up preteens enjoy it, I'm sure a shit not paying any attention.

[LockOn!]

THE MORE DRIFTING PROGRESSES AS A SPORT THE MORE IT LOOSES ITS CORE CULTURE


Fuck Formula D, fuck Eurobullshitleague, Fuck D1

Long live MSC, Final Bout, your local backyard grassroots slide sessions.


In my eyes, professional drifting is the equivalent of Monster Jam vs wheeling in the woods with your buddies. Its a fucking spectacle. Its there to entertain and take your money. Thats all.

[kashira kureijii]

dude muscle class is really the only drifting I have watched that I have actually enjoyed,

Freakin d1 and formula D are just a penis measuring competition in the form of who has the highest horsepower, or in the case of formula D who's LS1 has the most power. They gauge every fucking competition on who can make the most smoke and do the longest burnout on the straightaway.

I watch muscle class as it comes up on youtube, and it always makes me happy when I see daigo try to enter his freakin 700hp jzx and still lose the competition. I also enjoy how they usually rank some shop owner fairly high compared to the D1 stars who enter one of their less hp cars.

That or freakin drift tengoku vids, grassroots is the shit

[Reece]

THE MORE DRIFTING PROGRESSES AS A SPORT THE MORE IT LOOSES ITS CORE CULTURE


Fuck Formula D, fuck Eurobullshitleague, Fuck D1

Long live MSC, Final Bout, your local backyard grassroots slide sessions.


In my eyes, professional drifting is the equivalent of Monster Jam vs wheeling in the woods with your buddies. Its a fucking spectacle. Its there to entertain and take your money. Thats all.
You stole the words from my mouth. I'm worried this stupid competitive bullshit dick measuring contest is going to take over the hearts of 14 year olds (which it already pretty much has) and then when they buy a 240 they're gonna build it and drift it because they saw Vaughn Gittin in his Mustang, and not Kazama in his S15.

D1 is the most enjoyable out of everything you listed, but it's not nearly as amazing as it used to be.
dude muscle class is really the only drifting I have watched that I have actually enjoyed,

Freakin d1 and formula D are just a penis measuring competition in the form of who has the highest horsepower, or in the case of formula D who's LS1 has the most power. They gauge every fucking competition on who can make the most smoke and do the longest burnout on the straightaway.

I watch muscle class as it comes up on youtube, and it always makes me happy when I see daigo try to enter his freakin 700hp jzx and still lose the competition. I also enjoy how they usually rank some shop owner fairly high compared to the D1 stars who enter one of their less hp cars.

That or freakin drift tengoku vids, grassroots is the shit

Drift Muscle gives me hope. Thankfully it looks like some Americans are taking note.

[collegekid]

You're the other part of that problem: the over-bearing zealot that thinks he can change the way the forum operates.

Get the fuck over yourself. You try to White Knight in every fucking thread. Just do your God damn school work.

That's EUROPE. Formula D is already a fucking sham here. That's why Final Bout is the best thing since Emma Watson studying to become a yoga instructor. In any country drifting can be kept alive by a small group of people that have the drive and desire to keep it grassroots. My question back to you is why does this matter? If you like drifting you'll find ways to drift.

We get it, you're smart. I like to be smart as well...but not on fucking Zilvia.

It does not concern me how the forum works. I don't want to change anything, this is entertaining.

Zealout? I dont know the meaning of the word

https://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lc5hkwJEsD1qcusv2o1_500.gif

I don't wanna do my schoolwork right now. I wait until the very last second when I experience a fear induced panic and then frantically do my shit.

After reading the same responses from several different people, I have come to the conclusion that trying to make money off of drifting is not possible for the general public and drifting will happen regardless of the rules of x competition.

This really does not affect me in any way, past, present nor future. I don't care if the organizers make money or not (never did but still restating it).

It seemed like a topic to post on this forum since it has to do with drifting, a lot of people build drift cars here, most of our cars fall into this category etc etc.
It does not matter if this was happening in Mexico, Europe, Japan, Autralia and the other countries of the world. The USA is most criticized country in the world, yet when any natural disaster occurs everyone holds out their hands for us to come save them. So why is it illegal/taboo/frowned upon for me to comment on and discuss the happenings of the rest of the world whether it is trivial or some serious ass issue.
I just thought it was stupid for them to make new rules just for their own profits. I do like that they proposed this to their drivers first. Obviously someone spilled the beans

Dizzariot, I don't know why you raged hard about something that doesn't affect you either. I've never met you and I've never "hayted" on you and I know you truly dont care what they do either. Seeing how you responded, maybe....


Gasp



YOU DO CARE (in the gayest voice imagineable)











I suggest you actually learn how to organize such championship and events. Then you'd have the right to talk about it.

I live in France, i have witnessed how drift became an official discipline (I know the people who pushed to make it happen, not very personnally but i can see them often).

So called grassroot drifters didn't like it, because suddenly there were rules they had to follow, and suddenly they realized skill is one thing, but competitive racing and security means budget. Suddenly their drift missile was not allowed to run anymore on a karting circuit; they had to pay for a rollcage, an electrical cutoff switch, a fire extinguishing system, harnesses and bucket seat. Suddenly they had to pay higher entry fees to pay for the track and the officials - which for quite a lot of them don't get paid BTW ...

That is the difference between a dorifto kiddo and a grassroot racer. The cars in the french championship are very far from the monsters you get in the US. Basically, they are grassroot racers. Just no dorifto kids that think they can become D.K. because they score perfect drifts on forza or need for speed ...

Considering how these guys worked and still work their asses to make it happen, I really don't see the problem. I don't think they are actually making money out of it, but even if they were ... what is wrong with making money with hard work ? Wrenching on a car is one thing, but clearly you have no idea the kind of work involved in organizing a championship ...

I can't see how baning old cars suddenly becomes a money issue. considering the price of running a competitive drift car, the shell price means nothing ... get a gt86/brz shell, swap all the gear you had in that S chassis, job done.

I dont care about organizing championships or events at all. My right to talk about is the right to free speech. Is that just an 'Murican thing or what?

I see you've made valid points but the issue isn't about drivers making money.
You're off on a tangent. It is not about safety or budgeting.
The organization wants more money; that is pretty much what they are saying.
We all have to pay bills and make money to live our lives. That is the human race I get that.
They say shit about evolution and progress and thats the stuff that they sell to the public. The reality is that they want to bring in more sponsors. THEY don't think its good enough. The drivers have always had fun, worked hard to get out there, etc etc. It is the organization(s) that are saying "No this is not good enough we need more money"

I'm not here to teach anyone about corporate greed or how to run motorsports or whatever. We can forget about that question and ill edit it out.

This is something relevant to the Nissan 240sx and 300zx so I posted this topic for people to talk about. This does not equate to "help me stop these people" or "#save the drifters"

They want to "phase out cars" when that happens anyway. More people crash and there are less and less cars. Eventually the price goes up and drivers go get other cars anyway. Honestly what set me off was the way they act like they are the ones bringing about change, progress and evolution. They act like they got sooo much power and "influence" to bring this on. "European drifting pioneers"

Banning old cars is definitely a money issue, how is it NOT a money issue?
Where are all these cheap rwd cars at? Where are all these shells you are talking about?
Get a Brz shell and swap it over? I didnt know it was that easy. Show me the way.

The affected drivers have to sell their cars and build another car to spec. The safety regulations haven't changed really, the cars are just too old.


So you are throwing a Christmas party this year. Your family and closest friends come over. You don't let your parents come over because "Hey theyre too old, it ruins the vibe"

[XMcEvilson]

shut up bro

[Crazyced]

The safety regulations haven't changed really, the cars are just too old.This doesn't make sense unless rust or metal fatigue is assumed to be involved.

[Matej]

European drifting is actually awesome because they run it on hill climb courses and there are no fat people.


ZfwHfSt5nZM
IrKn2wlQqrQ

[Sleepy_Steve]

I think they were smart to ask the drivers first... I think it would kill them in terms of being a decent ladder to the pro1/pro2 FD ranks in this country because it would kill their car counts in a hurry.

Just because you seem to need 600-800 wheel hp in a 2-3 year old ex-FD car to win USDRIFT now days doesn't mean that you can actually have a decent field of drivers if you restrict everyone to newer cars.

Most of my fiends doing pro-am events like USDrift do struggle to find the cash to do the events among their other life commitments, and few manage to run a full season. Telling 3/4 of the field they need to switch to a newer more expensive chassis all of a sudden would mean they just won't do those events any more. Maybe they were thinking of a better 'grandfathering' clause in the rule that lets existing chassis already running in the series get away with running for another X number of years after the rule change. SCCA / NASA do that kind of stuff when there's a change to things like roll cages that would be overly costly for competitors to fix.

Speaking of costs, USDrift has some contingency programs that help lower the running costs of the cars, but there's still a TON of outlay. And good luck getting much beyond product sponsorship at the lower ranks. It's A LOT of work to put yourself in the position for that to even have a chance of paying off. Most of the costs have to be taken on by the individual driver / racer. They need HP and weight limits on these pro-am classes to help contain costs. Or at least make like FD and have a weight-tire width ratio cars have to fit into for classing. IMO event organizers can buy or rent a set of long-acre scales for compliance testing.

[ilia]

IMO, moving to newer cars is a non-issue.

I feel it's time for newer drivers to try things like the G35, IS300, 350z, FRS/BRZ, RX8 even IS250. All of those cars can be made cool and stylish, and are within the "average drift kid" price range. SXE10 chassis IS300s sell for the same amount as a decent S chassis these days, more or less.

So if that's not the issue, what is?

The issue is that the cars are built to too high of a spec.

The most exciting era of D1 for many drift fans is between 2001-2005 when the cars were reasonably simple in specification. Open an old Drift Tengoku and flip to the back where they have a feature on a pro D1 car of that era. Once, I looked at Tezuka's old JZX81 and compared it to the spec of my own Proceed Cressida, and I found that I had more links that he did. His car didn't have roll center correction, Supra diff, or half the other footwork shit I had. The only thing his car had on mine was power, but otherwise it was a very basic, bolt on car.

The reason that this is effective is because:

Kids identify with cars they have some hope of building.

Sponsors can actually SELL off the shelf bolt on parts to the drift fans that are below pro level. I look at my friend's cars now, and many are currently at 2004ish D1 specification with respect to links, engine setups, etc...

The point is, those cars were achievable. If you worked hard enough for long enough, you could have a car that was in many ways comparable to your hero's car.

For that reason, that era was awesome. It made fans excited about the cars in D1, and it drove parts sales for all of the manufacturers involved.

The funny thing about it, is that business model makes actual business sense.

You know what makes no sense at all? Tubeframe fantasy cars run by teams of people who say shit like "chassis frequency" and "mass centroid".

That's the thing about Formula D. That's that weird intangible je ne sais quoi about Formula D that people can't put their finger on, but know they don't like.

Formula D's business model is NOT designed to "grow the sport of drifting". It is designed to grow Formula D. There is a distinction. If the shit you're doing at the pro level does not trickle down to the regular people who are your fan base, you are not growing the sport on the whole. You are only there to grow yourself, in that case.

So I don't think the issue with the proposed "no old cars rule" is the old cars. Moving to new cars could actually drive the sport forward, as long as the car specifications are kept simple. If the series that Speedhunters was talking about had a bunch of 400~600hp cars with mostly bolt-on parts installed that the fans of the series could actually buy, they would knock it out of the park.

That concept is what drives the way we do Final Bout. The goal of Final Bout is to bring drifting back to reality a bit, before it becomes a spectacle sport that no mortal can access.

Hope that makes sense.

[brndck]

The issue is that the cars are built to too high of a spec.

You know what makes no sense at all? Tubeframe fantasy cars run by teams of people who say shit like "chassis frequency" and "mass centroid".

Formula D's business model is NOT designed to "grow the sport of drifting". It is designed to grow Formula D.

That concept is what drives the way we do Final Bout. The goal of Final Bout is to bring drifting back to reality a bit, before it becomes a spectacle sport that no mortal can access.



NAILED IT
ILYBB

FD is not marketed to appeal to drifting fans, its aimed at people who do not and will not ever go drifting, but who WILL go buy DC shoes and HOONIGAN shirts from Tillys and Zumiez and where ever else its sold in the mall.

FD is a great BUSINESS plan, but doesn't do much to reinvest in grassroots.
(YES, I acknowledge that they "host" open track night at irwindale, but when your pro2 "entry level" class is still 800hp half-tubeframe wisefab cars, its a far far cry from what an actual drifting enthusiast wants to watch)

[LockOn!]

^^^

Fukkin preach man.



dude muscle class is really the only drifting I have watched that I have actually enjoyed,

That or freakin drift tengoku vids, grassroots is the shit

Forgot about Drift Muscle, your right, thats probably better then MSC right now on youtube.

Drift Tengoku is the ultimate. I wish I could go back in time and live that shit haha. I manged to rip a bunch off driftwolrd before it disappeared.

[dorkidori_s13]

Final Bout or GTFO!!!

my 2 cents...

[zerodameaon]

IMO, moving to newer cars is a non-issue.

I feel it's time for newer drivers to try things like the G35, IS300, 350z, FRS/BRZ, RX8 even IS250. All of those cars can be made cool and stylish, and are within the "average drift kid" price range. SXE10 chassis IS300s sell for the same amount as a decent S chassis these days, more or less.



Those cars already exist in drifting. Maybe not as much in Europe because they have the European makers as a base of cheap cars, but each of those has been used/is being used in FD and D1 right now.

[kingkilburn]

Personally, drifting should be limited to a power ceiling, tire size, and weigh requirements. Keep everything else up for grabs.

It's supposed to be about the drivers, not shops and manufacturers.

[silviamang]

Formula D's business model is NOT designed to "grow the sport of drifting". It is designed to grow Formula D. There is a distinction. If the shit you're doing at the pro level does not trickle down to the regular people who are your fan base, you are not growing the sport on the whole. You are only there to grow yourself, in that case.

That concept is what drives the way we do Final Bout. The goal of Final Bout is to bring drifting back to reality a bit, before it becomes a spectacle sport that no mortal can access.

Hope that makes sense.

Good post. Formula D is and always will be about Formula D, not drifting. The same way goes with the NBA or NFL. They dont care what is going on in the "grassroots" level, and when they do, they bring them in to their league to promote it.
I wouldnt be surprised if within 5 to 10 years we see shit like the "Baltimore Hoonigans" or the "San Diego Sliders". Then everyone goes to see these teams battle it out and the spectators root for their "city" and idolize these immortals.

[dorkidori_s13]

Personally, drifting should be limited to a power ceiling and tire size. Keep everything else up for grabs.

It's supposed to be about the drivers, not shops and manufacturers.

even though i cant stand most of what you say... i WILL agree with this whole heartedly! this idea probably shouldve been implemented ages ago!!!

[fatduece]

Seems to me the European drift series is run by left wing liberals. Thats what you get, dicktatorship. They wanna tell you what you can and cant do.



@Finalbout- Please keep a tight hold of the current rules. DO NOT BE LAX OR SHLT BOXES WILL BE DRIFTING IN THE SERIES!


I dont care about organizing championships or events at all. My right to talk about is the right to free speech. Is that just an 'Murican thing or what?


Hey mang.... dont listen to that crustbite, or whatever the [email protected] his name is. He's a French man. The only thing the french can do is throw up a white flag.



Final Bout or GTFO!!!

my 2 cents... Final Bout is the only thing that is keeping me from going insane. I feel like it wont last long. Its only a matter of time before they relax and let f8ckbois enter.

[kingkilburn]

Those damn liberals always ruining shit, I tell you hwut.

[dorkidori_s13]

Final Bout is the only thing that is keeping me from going insane. I feel like it wont last long. Its only a matter of time before they relax and let f8ckbois enter.

meh, its run by older folks like myself who want to see drifting return to its roots in this country. i wouldnt count on the rules relaxing given there are a ton of people out there who still long for the good old days and build their cars accordingly

besides, i dont think its a bad idea at all in maintaining the rules about keeping the cars clean looking and purpose built in a style that fell by the way side due to "hooning" and 800+hp motors. just drift maintains the aesthetics rule...

[fatduece]

^ Thank God its run by people like you. My only wish is for you guys to add a few more rules. No entry allowed if car runs knockoff parts. Car must be low and none of that homo formula D alignment -10upfront and +5 in the rear.

[dbeiler]

Wow, this thread has gotten lame.

Ever since the beginning of time, man has always strived to better himself in any way possible. Competitions are an excellent method to gauge the amount of education, experience, skill and motivation a person has. Winning competitions requires the best equipment possible. In FD, that equipment consists of high horsepower (LS, JZ, etc) and high angle steering (Wisefab, etc)

So what would happen to the well built drift machines if all you zilvia waababies got your way? Would they all be crushed and scrapped to level the "playing field"? Should the evolution of drifting be halted because your broke asses can't afford GKtech? Why the hell would anybody bother watching FD if they kept using the same low-tech products and minimal horsepower?

You cry because broke people buy cheap parts.
You complain when people use better parts.
:picardfp:

[kingkilburn]

No one said big money drifting had to be burned to the ground. That's 3/4 of your argument gone.

[Almighty So]

well built drift machines

uh... where..?
the 'grassroots' events that everyone mentioned has the best machines i'd ever want to see.
FB cars > FD cars
and thats forever ever.

[LockOn!]

I really like final bouts style of competition. Team only, no head to head. It really levels the playing field.

Your team wants drive 1000hp LS1s and run wisefab kits? Go for it! You still might get crushed by the team of AE86's with stock 4a's.

Whichever team runs the best line, in the closest proximity, essentially whoever has the most exciting run to watch should win. Period.

Not only that, but watching 3+ cars on track trying to stick as close together as possible is waaaay more exciting to watch then 2 cars have a fucking drag race then play chicken shit to the finish line.

[kingkilburn]

Basically Forsberg's practice s13 > his pro car


I'd much rather see pro Drift cars in some sort of super gt style racing action. It'd be nuts.

[kashira kureijii]

FB was cool, I mean....I wasn't there but from watching dem elator FB vids I would say its pretty cool.
Not as cool as muscle class though, because you know.....its not in japan
But I'd say that FB is the closest we'll get to muscle class over here

You know whats better than muscle class, FB, and drift tengoku combined though?
Watching shitty videos of japanese people touge drifting on you tube, or any kind of mountain street racing. It is 10x as cool and fun to watch , why?
Because its grassest of the grassest roots all up in that grass root action.

Watching people drift on a track is boring compared to that touge life man,

I don't see why we have to make all this fun car driving a sport or official with its central bank or whatever.

The shit OP posted is some socialist bullshit, akin to saying what kind of gun magazines people can have, how old of cars they can have fun with

[kingkilburn]

Drifting on a track is fine but lets make the tracks road courses instead of banked ovals and parking lots. California alone could host a season of drifting with some of the most iconic corners in racing.

Anything at Infineon between turn 6 and 1 would be fucking amazing for high power drift cars.

[fatduece]

I really like final bouts style of competition. Team only, no head to head. It really levels the playing field.

Your team wants drive 1000hp LS1s and run wisefab kits? Go for it! You still might get crushed by the team of AE86's with stock 4a's.

Whichever team runs the best line, in the closest proximity, essentially whoever has the most exciting run to watch should win. Period. God no! All it takes is a couple douches with high hp and then the rest realize they cant keep up so they follow. Then they realize they cant put the power down so they start raising the car and doing all sorts of wizardry. Before you know it, fb will turn into another fd. Fb NEEDS a power cap. Id say no more than 450whp. Then its up to the driver skill instead of the whole drag racing sideways bullsh8t.

Drifting on a track is fine but lets make the tracks road courses instead of banked ovals and parking lots. California alone could host a season of drifting with some of the most iconic corners in racing.

Anything at Infineon between turn 6 and 1 would be fucking amazing for high power drift cars.
Sounds like Fd all over again :picardfp:

[kingkilburn]

High hp doesn't mean 1000hp and it doesn't have anything to do with tube frame chassis and all that.

[fatduece]

But thats what it all leads to.

[kingkilburn]

I guess we should sell our cars and walk.

[fatduece]

^No, only those with overbuilt cars. That [email protected] doesnt belong in drifting.

[LockOn!]

God no! All it takes is a couple douches with high hp and then the rest realize they cant keep up so they follow.



Huh? I think you miss understand. It doesn't matter how much HP a team runs. The point is the teams are judged as a collective.

Who had a tighter run? The team of Corollas? Or LS1 s13s? The power doesn't determine that, the drivers do.

[Reece]

Why the hell would anybody bother watching FD if they kept using the same low-tech products and minimal horsepower?


Gee, you're right, it really would get boring watching the same lines done by cars with the exact same engines and suspension tunes over and over and over and over and over again... wait a minute...

[Silverbullet]

you guys are nuts. 1000HP+ Formula D cars are sick.

There is so much hate because most people won't accept that their pay check to pay check job wont allow their budget to get on the same magnitude as a pro car like it would a decade ago.

[deolio]

the older the demographic, the more money. it's hard to attract an older demographic to drifting, but that's fine because a ton of dudes in the US are entering that "over 10 years of experience" group, which often means those dudes are at least 26, are in it for the long haul, and are probably at least the manager at McDonald's now. as these people have better jobs, they can buy nicer shit. that's when it becomes more profitable. it just takes time.

but why would you want it to be profitable anyway? drifting is counterculture and that's why many are drawn to it. the second it becomes very profitable it will become the norm and it won't be as cool.

[Almighty So]

There is so much hate because most people won't accept that their pay check to pay check job wont allow their budget to get on the same magnitude as a pro car like it would a decade ago.

I think you may have missed the part about the difference between pro cars from a decade ago and pro cars today. See ilia's post.

[OBEEWON]

Most of the drivers in that series are cool with it/ want it.
If it leaves more S14's/ 86's/FC/D's etc around then cool. It's better than dudes getting them and chopping them up to put pickup sticks all in them, radiators in the passenger seat, and roof scoops just to smash them up.

[zerodameaon]

Basically Forsberg's practice s13 > his pro car


I'd much rather see pro Drift cars in some sort of super gt style racing action. It'd be nuts.

I want to see Forsberg bring back the SR Z33 for a fun day car.

GT1000 would be nuts, and a sad fact is many drivers would still need to run restrictors.

[dorkidori_s13]

IMO, moving to newer cars is a non-issue.

I feel it's time for newer drivers to try things like the G35, IS300, 350z, FRS/BRZ, RX8 even IS250. All of those cars can be made cool and stylish, and are within the "average drift kid" price range. SXE10 chassis IS300s sell for the same amount as a decent S chassis these days, more or less.

So if that's not the issue, what is?

The issue is that the cars are built to too high of a spec...

pretty much this ENTIRE post!!! pro level cars in the US now running Formula D are just nuts, they are no longer achievable by any sort of normal means whatsoever. unless you have a few major sponsors that front the bill for quite a bit, you are NOT going to compete! giving fans the feeling that they can go out and build a car that is competitive against the pros was a HUGE thing back about 10-12 years ago. it drove sales of parts, it drove higher levels of interaction and it gave people drive to not only build properly functioning cars, but clean cars as well! But alas, the sport has changed because the American way is always "bigger and better" right?

[Jibbberish]

I agree with you guys about regulations, but there's always gonna be a group of people/sponsors who have the money and the desire to take it to the max. It happens in every sport, shit gets pushed to the limit and farther. Although I agree it should be about the driver, a huge part of FD is building an insane car that people are gonna love. I don't know any driver who doesn't want more of something. More power, more grip. Why's it so insane that some of the best drivers in the sport want and are building faster cars? It's not like the whole organization is hellbent on ruining the scene. Pretty much every one of those drivers started out just like us.

Like, I love circuit racing. But I'm not complaining about the fact that I can't just go build and race a Formula 1 car. I'm glad I can't because if everyone could do it, it wouldn't be epic.

inb4 DURRR das not wut drifting aboot is aboot taking whutchyou have and rippin in it "keep drifting fun".

[Yuri]

Like any sport, drifting has to skate that fine line between appealing to the participants and the spectators. And unfortunately, spectators are where the money is.
In the end, profit always wins out. This is why Nissan's current lineup is uninspiring for enthusiasts, it only focuses on where the most money to be made is.

It doesn't have to be like this though. To quote Montague, "War hath no fury like a non-combatant." So if you don't like what you see, instead of talking about it online, become a combatant. Get involved. Do everything you can to find a way, any way, to bring drifting back to its core. Become a trendsetter, become an organizer, use your skills to really bring something to the sport. Because 100 people may listen to someone posting on a forum, but tens of thousands will listen to someone who's paid their dues and is respected in the community.

As my dad (a retired intelligence officer) taught me; "If you want change, you don't fight the power. You become it."

[derek king]

Worst thread on this forum

[Crazyced]

pretty much this ENTIRE post!!! pro level cars in the US now running Formula D are just nuts, they are no longer achievable by any sort of normal means whatsoever. unless you have a few major sponsors that front the bill for quite a bit, you are NOT going to compete! giving fans the feeling that they can go out and build a car that is competitive against the pros was a HUGE thing back about 10-12 years ago. it drove sales of parts, it drove higher levels of interaction and it gave people drive to not only build properly functioning cars, but clean cars as well! But alas, the sport has changed because the American way is always "bigger and better" right?
I know next to nothing about the sport but isn't it normal for the top tear (of any sport) to be extremely hard to archive? See F1, people love it because it's the pinnacle of the discipline. Unachievable by mere mortals. Same for monster trucks, although more about the show.

On the other hand you have sports like Motocross, where privateers still mingle with the factory riders, although very hard and requires dedication. Then again, dues to the nature of the sport, you can be competitive with a stock bike with good suspensions if you have the talent and work ethics. This may not be true about drifting.

[kashira kureijii]

Like any sport, drifting has to skate that fine line between appealing to the participants and the spectators. And unfortunately, spectators are where the money is.
In the end, profit always wins out. This is why Nissan's current lineup is uninspiring for enthusiasts, it only focuses on where the most money to be made is.

It doesn't have to be like this though. To quote Montague, "War hath no fury like a non-combatant." So if you don't like what you see, instead of talking about it online, become a combatant. Get involved. Do everything you can to find a way, any way, to bring drifting back to its core. Become a trendsetter, become an organizer, use your skills to really bring something to the sport. Because 100 people may listen to someone posting on a forum, but tens of thousands will listen to someone who's paid their dues and is respected in the community.

As my dad (a retired intelligence officer) taught me; "If you want change, you don't fight the power. You become it."


Holy shit! the return of the yuri !

Kinda a lame thread to return from the dead too though

I expected more fire and brimstone associated with a yuri post

How did being assimilated by Zilvia.net for so long feel? I'm assuming you fought your way out of the depths of some big Zilvia server thing, which you proceeded to wire to do your bidding, muhahaha

Awesome

[kingkilburn]

The secret to F1 is that it is top flight kart racing. You might not ever be an F1 driver but you can totally work your way up the ladder it sits atop, and do it as a privateer.

FD not so much. There is no ladder and you simply cannot compete as a privateer.

[Yuri]

Holy shit! the return of the yuri !

Kinda a lame thread to return from the dead too though

I expected more fire and brimstone associated with a yuri post

I was always one of the nicer and more lenient mods. Which led to my downfall and being absorbed into the Zilvia servers.

[kashira kureijii]

I was always one of the nicer and more lenient mods. Which led to my downfall and being absorbed into the Zilvia servers.

But now you have returned!

you can make me vice mod president! It was my history thread witchcraft that summoned you after all.............right?

Awe man

[Yuri]

But now you have returned!

you can make me vice mod president! It was my history thread witchcraft that summoned you after all.............right?

Awe man

I haven't been a mod since 2008 or so. But this thread is getting off track. (Which in this case may be a good thing.)

The fact of the matter is, if drifting isn't what you want it to be, do your damndest to put in the time and work to make it something better.

[GU40sx]

Eh, I don't care, these rules won't even affect 99.9% of us. The less you dive into the drama of the drift world the more fun you'll have. Drifting > Bitching.

[FM_Chenzy]

I don't think any real drifting fan looks at FD and is amazed by it. Sure most of you will respect the amount of work put into the cars. most of us just see no appeal on a "tandem" run you can fit a 18 wheeler between each car. FB, drift tengoku, drift muscle, msc, grassroots door to door action is what any true drifting fan is looking for.

[slower than you]

If you cant afford to build a post 96 chassis to compete in motorsport, you already lost.

The people who can afford to be competitive in an outdated chassis can affor to move to a newer chassis.

Take Matt Coffman for example (I cant use drift allstars drivers because there arent enough Zs and Xs in the world to spell their names). He has more money into the drivetrain of his S13 that it completely trumps the cost of the chassis. Im sure he can afford to swith to pretty much any other chassis.

People have been crying about drifting "not being taken seriously" by the motorsports world (at least outside of Japan) since its been around.

Now they're making a push towards having a series more in line with any other type of competitive racing, and we're crying about that.

Drifting still has, by far, the least strict set of rules in any flagship series in the world. Name another series without a power or displacement cap.

I could honestly give a fuck about competing. I dont even watch FD, unless one of my friends qualifies. And im certainly not a fan of how its judged. But we're finally getting the legitimacy people have been asking for for years. Be careful what you wish for I guess.

[1988montecarloss]

Eh, I don't care, these rules won't even affect 99.9% of us. The less you dive into the drama of the drift world the more fun you'll have. Drifting > Bitching.

now heres a man with a plan