Viper in drift?

[SpeedMonkeyInc]

Watching @ Formula D it was really amazing to see that viper go. So fast. Sam is clearly a very good driver, but does anyone else think that maybe the Viper has an unfair advantage? Super low, long wheel base, huge power. I know that judging takes into consideration differences in cars like the 86 vs. anything battles. Still the speed and angles and smoke from those Vipers is terrific! Anyone?

[sr240mike]

The way Rhys has his GTO setup I think it would be easier to drift than say most other cars. After watching his in-car cam's he just leaves it in 3rd gear the whole time and feathers the gas. Sam is definately a good driver. Those Viper's have a good amount of torque but I dont think its an unfair advantage. I would like to see more high power domestics out at drift events since all the domestic road racers I know talk shiite about drifting saying its pointless.

[thx247]

It's pretty silly to me...tube frame viper comp car vs Toyota 86.

I don't care if the toyota won once or not, the viper is clearly superior in every regard.

All that smoke and exhaust noise brings in attention and money though so that car is going nowhere for a long time.

[Var]

Yes i agree that there is an advantage, but it's not necessarily the car. I think it has to do with budget. Most forms of racing have rules and regs to make it fair for everyone to participate. Drifting is every man for himself. The more money you have, the better you car will be. It would be tight to have standardized drift cars for competition but it would take a lot of the fun away from the whole scene.

[pruto]

you mean fun like nascar where all the cars are exactly the same give or take a few hundreths of drag coefficent.

500hp viper against 4 bangers no fair? what about all the great hachi vs silvia battles of the past? 200hp NA vs 400hp turbo?

someone will come and challenge the all mighty viper.

[Var]

[QUOTE=pruto]you mean fun like nascar where all the cars are exactly the same give or take a few hundreths of drag coefficent.

[QUOTE]


exactly my point. it would take the fun out of it..but driver skill would be more apparent

[jy116]

that's why ppl like Initial D, and other similar scenarios... its cool to see the under-dog win!

[thx247]

Lions 3, Christians 1 if I'm not mistaken?

Even the underdog wins once in awhile I guess.

[SpeedMonkeyInc]

I would never ever like to see anything like "spec" drift cars or even anything regulated at all. Safety should be paramount ( witness the very scary crash at Formula D ) and after that NOTHING. Part of this sport I think is cars are as indavidual as the drivers. I would never even say ban the Vipers because I think those cars are super cool. Rhys and his GTO are badass and I would really like to see some well sorted ZO6s come out to play. Dunno, just thinking.

[vvtisupra]

Actually chris from DA beat sam with his sr20 powered motorex sponsor'd 350z. But you can totally tell chris was belting the crap out of his sr20 just to stay within 6 car lengths on the back straight. For some reason tho i felt that formula D was a plot for gm and chrystler. I mean the front lot had all vipers and both the specialty boxes were full of rhys's and sam's fans i guess you can say. And gm was one of the main sponsors. And the day before I was watching chris and all those guys working on their cars by themselves in the buttass hot garage. while i bet Rhys and sam have a whole team to help. But i guess this is really a match of drivers skill. So from now on I'm routing for Drift Alliance whos with me ? :aw:

[holisticbeatz]

That MOPAR Viper isn't even really a Viper. I believe it has a full tube chassis and Viper shell. I believe one of the rules in order to compete in D1, the car has to be a unibody. With that said, that Viper was crazy! It'd be cool to see it up against an 86, S15 or R34..

[90RS13]

That MOPAR Viper isn't even really a Viper.

isn't really a viper? Actually, it's a Dodge Viper Competition Coupe. It comes stock with the same chassis that the MOPAR Viper uses. It also uses the same carbon-kevlar body that the stock Viper Competition Coupe uses. Are you mad cause a domestic is using good chassis technology? This is what can be anoying about the import scene. People say, yeah, my friend has a (import of your choice here) that can smoke vipers, but then when a viper comes out to join in all the reindeer games people say it's unfair. I think it's a very good thing, for the viper to be competing. It makes it more challenging, and isn't that the point?

500hp viper against 4 bangers no fair? what about all the great hachi vs silvia battles of the past? 200hp NA vs 400hp turbo?

excactly

[Var]

they should at least give them a budget cap or something to even up the playing field.
It's like shooting snails in a barrel with an uzi.
It's like taking a grenade launcher to a shooting range
Like picking Sammy Sosa for your little league team
Like using an ae86 to race in the mountains
Like USA vs Afghanistan

i just dont think it's fair.

[Jaggorri]

Why would a budget cap level the playing field? It's not like driving a Viper auotmatically makes you god's gift to racing and/or driving, Without the skill to control the car, the person driving it is just another Joe Schmo with a powerful car. Yes, the Viper is a monster, but I've seen Alex take the fight straight to Sam in his AE86, especially at the first Formula D event. They ended up going several rounds because it was so close, and while Alex lost, it showed that even his little AE86 could kick ass with the right person at the wheel.

Byron

[s14falcon]

That MOPAR Viper isn't even really a Viper. I believe it has a full tube chassis and Viper shell. I believe one of the rules in order to compete in D1, the car has to be a unibody. With that said, that Viper was crazy! It'd be cool to see it up against an 86, S15 or R34..


90RS13 is right, it is a viper. The Viper competition coupe is not a tube frame racecar. It also does not have th 800 hp engine, its basically a stock viper engine that makes around 520. The car Sam hubinette drives is NOT the same thing as the one Tarzan drives.
It does seem to have an unfair advantage, but thats just because most of those drivers have similar skill and he just has the craziest car. If you took one of the top D1 drivers and put them against him in whatever car they had, they'd probably smoke him.

[vvtisupra]

irwindale is a fast course and when you compare their run in tandum the viper takes a big lead on the back straight before the bank turn and that automaticallly puts anycar in catch up mode. When the other car is leading like in last formula d you can see both the viper and the GTO put their nose either on the inside or outside of the lead car with their power and taking away at that advantage that they had when they were leading. Its obvious both the gto and the viper get their advantage not in the turn but on the back straight before the turn where the viper had atleast 6 car lengths on the 350z the first round and when the 350 z lead the viper was on the inside of the 350 z at the door.

[doriftokouki]

from what i have heard the tube frame viper will not be alowed in the following formula D's of D1...it is a tube frame car and rules of D1 and formulaD is no tube frame chasis. for some reason a mistake was made and the viper was allowed to run the first formula D after that they could not say no so let they let the viper finish the season.................. at least thats what i have heard.
oyeah for some reason i cannot log out of your screen name at work Nick.
-FallbrookS13
-drew

[citizen]

i know a certain someone that is contemplating running either his new stockish viper or his old hennessy 650r with boosted 1100hp at some drift events, lol. think that would be fair?

[holisticbeatz]

I stand corrected.

With that said, let me just reiterate, that Viper is a tube-framed car and it violates D1GP's rules. You can read the rules here for yourself: http://www.d1gp.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=15

That MOPAR Viper violates #1 rule of Authorized Modifications: Each car must maintain the OEM uni-body structure, Pipe Frame Chasis (including pipe-frame extentions) are not allowed in any D1 Competition. No Exceptions!

Now that's that said, that car is a cheater car because it breaks the rule. It's not about import or domestic, you misunderstood me. It's about fairness and having a level playing field. Personally, I think the Rhy's GTO and the Mopar Viper were freakin awesome out there.

[jy116]

wow... American's got to cheat in D1!! GO America

[s14falcon]

The viper is NOT a tube frame car!! :bash: It has basically the stock engine and based off the stock viper.
http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/viper_competition.asp

Read that and tell me where it says it is a full tube racecar. It has some enhancements over the stock, like a roll cage and racing harnesses, but all the cars have that.

[holisticbeatz]

We're talking about the Mopar Viper driven by Samual Hubinette. Read it here: http://www.moparspeed.com/moparspeed.jsp?1

[s14falcon]

word, its the same car with a different paint job. I'm well acquainted with the viper under question.

http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/10/vipercomp03_03.jpg

http://www.mopar.com/img/body_news_sp_1000c.jpg

[ledzeppelin240]

Quoted: Like USA vs Afghanistan
It s pointless to bring this up due to the absolute stupidity involved here. USA starts stupid shit and just wants to come out being the good and all mighty powerful people cause they are so patriotic. Fuck being patriotic...Make decisions for yourself, come to a conclusion on your own. The truth is just a lie cleverly covered up...Typical bragging.

[Jaggorri]

We're talking about the Mopar Viper driven by Samual Hubinette. Read it here: http://www.moparspeed.com/moparspeed.jsp?1

THE VIPER COMP COUPE IS NOT A TUBE FRAME CAR.

For the love of god, why is this so hard for you people to understand? Trust me, I have worked on them. Mopar did not build a tube frame Viper just for Sam Hubinette, and as a matter of fact, the car he is driving is actually owned by a privateer and Mopar is just renting it from said individual.

Just because a car comes from the factory with cross bracing and a roll cage DOES NOT mean it is a tube frame car. It simply means that Mopar produced a car that was ready for the track straight as soon as it went out the door.

Byron

[Mr. Badlose]

Quoted: Like USA vs Afghanistan
It s pointless to bring this up due to the absolute stupidity involved here. USA starts stupid shit and just wants to come out being the good and all mighty powerful people cause they are so patriotic. Fuck being patriotic...Make decisions for yourself, come to a conclusion on your own. The truth is just a lie cleverly covered up...Typical bragging.

Uh, what are you babbling about? You retards who say "America does this and that" act like the US government sponsored the drift car...and that a couple of ordinary people represent a whole country. Good going.

[Sil Beer S13]

Think about what you are saying. The viper does not have god like horse power. It has about 500. Whats the difference between that and 470hp silvia's? The viper has good torque at very low RPM. The viper can be purchased from dodge in competition platform right out of the factory. Every part on the viper has a part number that can be replaced from the factory. The viper is not breaking any rules. Even when Tarzan was drifting the benihana viper the annoucer said that it was a very hard car to drift. I think every one is jsut upset that Sam is a great driver. And has beating some other great drivers. I have personally seen Sam drive S13 and S14's. He has skill. So stop acting like your a know it all.

[ledzeppelin240]

Good going. Haha, is that even a language? People always compare the USA to everything else. USA vs. x country. Im sick of the american presidents trying to be the hero, and look like they had nothing to do with anything that has ever happen to them in the past. There are too much facts to back up a lot of "under the table happenings" So you stop your babbling. Get that dick out of your ass and take a good look at whats going on in the world.

[Var]

Good going. Haha, is that even a language? People always compare the USA to everything else. USA vs. x country. Im sick of the american presidents trying to be the hero, and look like they had nothing to do with anything that has ever happen to them in the past. There are too much facts to back up a lot of "under the table happenings" So you stop your babbling. Get that dick out of your ass and take a good look at whats going on in the world.



umm..yeah so that viper. nice paintjob

[JackDrift]

No it's not unfair, he is just running a different car, I have a few friends with Corollas that say it's unfair that I do better with my 300hp s13, I tell em' Thats why I sold my Starion and built my 240 into what it is, because I could not be competitive with the Starion.
That is also why my next car is a LS-6 powered 94' RX-7, not a stock LS-6 either Patriot stage 2 heads, comp cam, SLP intake manifold, one-off headers, and a bunch of other V-8 go fast stuff

(the LS-6 is the same engine that comes in the Z0-6 Corvettes and a little better than the LS1 that comes in the GTO..just for reference)

[Mr. Badlose]

Good going. Haha, is that even a language? People always compare the USA to everything else. USA vs. x country. Im sick of the american presidents trying to be the hero, and look like they had nothing to do with anything that has ever happen to them in the past. There are too much facts to back up a lot of "under the table happenings" So you stop your babbling. Get that dick out of your ass and take a good look at whats going on in the world.

Hah, woud like a hankerchief to dry your tears and wipe the snot from your nose, Led Zeppelin?

American Presidents ARE heroes, and we will scorch your faggot-ass country of Canada with the SEARING FLAMES OF DEATH, then I will spit on your ashes and rape them. Then I will do the same to EVERY SINGLE CANADIAN. WE WILL TAKE OVER THE WORLD AND INFLICT MISERY UPON EVERY RACE! Only then, will you know the TRUE meaning of suffering! PREPARE TO DIE, BITCH.









I'm just kidding about all that fun stuff. "Tee-hee" :) Canada seems like a cool place. But seriously, I'm saying your ignorant little rant doesn't really have shit to do with the original post. Stop trying to classify a body of people based on your opinions of their government.

P.S. A penis is not within my ass. And "Good going" is not a language, it is a phrase. English is my native language. Thanks for playing! :bow:

[Andrew Bohan]

A penis is not within my ass

then what happened to it? did it fall out?
i know jake put one in there

[Shin_Kudo]

According to the specs page for Sam's car on the mopar site:

"Backbone tubular steel space frame with separate cowl structure"

[Mr. Badlose]

That is wrong on so many levels.
That is just too gross to even joke about.

Besides, I know for a fact that you took it from THIS GUY. (http://guernsey.globat.com/~mountainracer.com/aznthugz/asianboyz1.gif) Then he used his powerful bukkake finishing move on you.

[Andrew Bohan]

well yeah, who do you think he was webcamming to?

[Mr. Badlose]

So you ARE cheating on me! You fiend!

[Andrew Bohan]

oh thtop!



wait, what was this thread about again?

[Mr. Badlose]

It was about whiners who don't realize that the team with the most money usually does better in most forms of motorsports.

[Andrew Bohan]

oh yeah. that's right. how about all sports in general?

[The ROMAN]

What the hell.....
Anyway, D1 is probably gonna become more strict in the coming years. I think the GTO is more illegal than the Viper being the suspension pickup points have been modified to allow a million degrees of turn radius plus that steering reducer or multiplier or whatever it's called.

[thx247]

Its not tube frame? Maybe I looked at a different car? How many vipers are there?

snakes...i hate snakes..

[msaskin]

There is NO tube frame version of the SRT-10 (new) viper out there. EVERY viper is either a standard SRT-10 off the production line in detroit, or one of the 30 (give or take) comp coupes that have been produced.

The comp coupes are basically a stock viper srt-10, plus the wing and aero stuff, plus the safety equipment, plus (i think) better brakes and a slightly more powerful (by like, 20hp) engine.

~matt

[drift into a curb]

Shin Kudo pulled that off the Mopar website. Is that incorrect? :mepoke:

[meatish]

I think Sam just has great skill. I was a fan since i saw him drive the Jasper supra. You cant really claim that a car is 'better' because no car is better than another, just 'different'. I think a lot of people are getting worked up because their icons, whether that be a certain driver they like, or a car they are attatched to, are getting stomped in this subjective competition. I know if I saw a viper on the street i would stare at the lucky bastard, not throw eggs on his car for being too big and mean. All in all i think this is a good thing. People who want to use 240s, corollas, z-cars, etc, are going to have treat this as a challenge. The privateers who are getting lazy will have to step it up. Go Sam.

[Shin_Kudo]

I personally think Sam was better in the Supra. He was really agressive in that car, something he's only recently becoming with the Viper.

[TRUENOCOUPE]

THE VIPER COMP COUPE IS NOT A TUBE FRAME CAR.

For the love of god, why is this so hard for you people to understand? Trust me, I have worked on them. Mopar did not build a tube frame Viper just for Sam Hubinette, and as a matter of fact, the car he is driving is actually owned by a privateer and Mopar is just renting it from said individual.

Just because a car comes from the factory with cross bracing and a roll cage DOES NOT mean it is a tube frame car. It simply means that Mopar produced a car that was ready for the track straight as soon as it went out the door.

Byron

:i loled on this post:

[NZO]

Watching @ Formula D it was really amazing to see that viper go. So fast. Sam is clearly a very good driver, but does anyone else think that maybe the Viper has an unfair advantage? Super low, long wheel base, huge power. I know that judging takes into consideration differences in cars like the 86 vs. anything battles. Still the speed and angles and smoke from those Vipers is terrific! Anyone?

Yea he drives like an ass, I think thats an advantage.

[msaskin]

Shin Kudo pulled that off the Mopar website. Is that incorrect? :mepoke:

No, it's right. It's described as a tubular steel space frame, which is entirely different from a tube-frame.

The mopar viper (which is just a plain old viper comp coupe) is identical in just about every way to the regular street going SRT-10's, which has been stated numerous times.

What I think is that all of you complaining about the viper having an unfair advantage need to shut the hell up. Who cares if the viper isn't mad JDM TyTe y0!, it's possible to have an american car win a drift competition.

~matt

[mikespeed95]

Wow. this thread has a lot of wrong info in it.

1st off let me say viper or not, sam is one of the best drivers FD has to offer, adn deserves that championship %100. Did he have the best car? maybe. Was he dead consistent every run, every track? yes.

2nd off, the viper isn't FD or D1GP legal. Never was. However, IIRC FD has a rule, where if the drivers vote to allow a illegal car to compete , it can. This is how the mopar viper competed this year. Why is it illegal? part of the car is tube frame, and it doesnt retain the original unibody. Alex even voted for it.

3rd. The el camino are teh win :)

[mikespeed95]

The comp coupes are basically a stock viper srt-10, plus the wing and aero stuff, plus the safety equipment, plus (i think) better brakes and a slightly more powerful (by like, 20hp) engine.

~matt

wrong. add a crapload of chassis reinforcement, some of which being frame sctructure, and a ton of suspension.

[r32_gtr]

Sam is awesome, great driver, great guy. I am sure he can pull sick drifts in any car.

His car... hmm... I don't think it has too much an advantage suspension-wise, but it's definitely a big plus when you have a lightened tube frame chassis that you can pretty much modify the suspension points how ever you want it; as compared to most unibody cars where there is suspension adjustment limitation. But power-wise, there is no match. It's actually not that fast when it's drifting but it could blow anyone on the field away when he grips. So the unfair advantage here is that it can leave you in the dust at the starting line if you are matched up with him drifting tandem, especially higher speed course like Irwindale. He just gives you no chance of getting close. The only solution is to get more power. I am sure it would not be a problem if we can get a corporate sponsor like Mopar. Would be nice if Nissan jumps onboard... I know I am dreaming.

Hubert

[vvtisupra]

Yea he drives like an ass, I think thats an advantage.

Funny you say that cuz after the run with chris forsburg chris's car was hella dented up in the rear

[thx247]

Doesn't the viper have adjustments for the suspension in the cockpit? So fair!

[90RS13]

Doesn't the viper have adjustments for the suspension in the cockpit? So fair!

Does is matter? It's not like your going to adjust your suspension, mid-run anyway. Also, have you never seen an import with suspension control in the cockpit? Tein anyone...

[90RS13]

it's definitely a big plus when you have a lightened tube frame chassis that you can pretty much modify the suspension points how ever you want it; as compared to most unibody cars where there is suspension adjustment limitation.

The Comp Coupe uses the same suspension design as the SRT-10 Viper. Tubular space frame doesn't equal, giant erector set.

[mikespeed95]

Doesn't the viper have adjustments for the suspension in the cockpit? So fair!


more than 1/2 the cars out there are running tein edfc dude..

[mikespeed95]

Sam is awesome, great driver, great guy. I am sure he can pull sick drifts in any car.

His car... hmm... I don't think it has too much an advantage suspension-wise, but it's definitely a big plus when you have a lightened tube frame chassis that you can pretty much modify the suspension points how ever you want it; as compared to most unibody cars where there is suspension adjustment limitation. But power-wise, there is no match. It's actually not that fast when it's drifting but it could blow anyone on the field away when he grips. So the unfair advantage here is that it can leave you in the dust at the starting line if you are matched up with him drifting tandem, especially higher speed course like Irwindale. He just gives you no chance of getting close. The only solution is to get more power. I am sure it would not be a problem if we can get a corporate sponsor like Mopar. Would be nice if Nissan jumps onboard... I know I am dreaming.

Hubert

i dunno, i think jus thte uber crazy power and crazy wide tires are an advantage, there has got to be soooooooooooo much grip in the rear when hes drifting , and with teh power like that the control has got to be so much more than compared to a 240. and not trygin to dog sam, but his drifts are kinda slow sometimes when watching .

[Mr. Badlose]

This reminds me of all the times I've seen some Civic try to take out a (v8 car here), get smoked...then complain "Whhhaaa! You only beat me 'cause you have TWICE the displacement and cylinders!"

Well no shit, sherlock. Don't pick a fight if the odds are against you and if you can't stand to lose! And if these drift-Rs think that the Viper is so unfair, then don't compete. Or I know...buy yourself a Trans Am for massive low-end torque and ability to put ultra-wide tires on! Seeing how heavily modified some of the Japanese D1 cars out there are (like that Soarer with bolts replaced by titanium bolts?! Wow.) I don't think that this Viper is unfair at all.

Are there any drift events that have modification limitations? None that I know of. If there's such thing as an SCCA drift event, I bet it has all sorts of gay rules.

Maybe jealousy is a factor in the Viper hater-club.

[thx247]

What does the tein edfc do?

[Var]

What does the tein edfc do?


are you just being sarcastic? if not

it allows you to change the setting on your shocks from inside the cabin. it's only compatible with the Tein FLEX(i think) coilovers on the 240. on other cars it's compatible with more models.

[knightrider]

even if the viper isnt all tube chassis, it still is part tube chassis, you can see it in pictures on various sites about the comp coupe viper, the engine shots show partial tube extentsions which are illegal in d1gp and also FD, but as was stated, FD drivers can vote to allow a certain car. imo, sam is a good driver, but needs to learn more self control when behind the wheel and not push everyone else off of the track, ive seen it on many occasions where he has forced ppl off of the track, or hit them trying. not good sportsmanship in my book, cool guy to talk to in the pits though, also, iirc sams viper and tarzans viper are the same, tarzans is about 6 months newer, but thats about it. sams viper is owned by a privateer racer that rents the viper to mopar who lends it to sam to drive, the car is stock, but has a different exhaust. thats really the only diference between tarzans viper and sam viper, the exhaust.

[thx247]

Yeh I know what the edfc is, I really don't think you can compare Tein EDFC and Moton coilovers to each other without a smirk on your face.

[90RS13]

Yeh I know what the edfc is, I really don't think you can compare Tein EDFC and Moton coilovers to each other without a smirk on your face.

So then he shouldn't be allowed to use better technology?

Seeing how heavily modified some of the Japanese D1 cars out there are (like that Soarer with bolts replaced by titanium bolts?! Wow.)

To add along those lines, alot of the D1 cars are seam welded, and that, mixed with their roll cages and bracing, give them plenty of stiffness. The only real gains they would see with a tube chassis is less weight, and with the Comp Coupe having a curb weight of 2,995 lbs, most of them are lighter anyway.

[90RS13]

Doesn't the viper have adjustments for the suspension in the cockpit? So fair!

I was looking at pics of the Comp Coupe and couldn't find any kind of controls for adjusting the suspension. Could you point out to me what your talking about? (seriously, not being a dick or anything) Also, just a personal opinion but... The question mark in your post, I'm assuming, means you don't know this for fact? If you don't know something as fact, you shouldn't use it in an argument. Again, just my opinion.
http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/10/vipercomp03_inter.jpg

[gonzoes14k]

Hate to quote a saying by drag racers. Sometimes you have to run what you bring. If it was allowed you have to up your game. I thought we wanted to expand to other cars. Lord knows if someone used a 360/z06/R this thread be more hate.

[thx247]

As hubert said, a tube frame chassis lets you make your own suspension mounts and weighs less than a traditional molded chassis. I wouldn't trust that listed curb weight as far as I could throw that car but even then, the car has more torque under 2,000 rpm than most of the other cars make peak. Vipers are also cleaning up the FIA GT-2 championships, Le Mans, American Le Mans and the 24 Hours of Daytona races. The picture you show does not show half of whats going on in that car, and its no surprise the system is not in that photo. Maybe someone has some pit photos of the cockpit which show the adjustment but I have never seen any yet.

The whole point of me posting in this thread was to point out the desparity in performance between the cars competiting in Formula D. Arguing that any mass produced production car is even remotely competitive in performance to some of the cars in Formula D is silly. They are all outclassed like spec miatas vs F1 cars.

I'd be much more interested in drifting if I saw equally competitive cars compete against each other instead of the David and Goliath performance I saw at Infinion.

[Jaggorri]

The Viper CC has custom suspension mounts that are movable to wherever the driver wants them? Really? Using this picture:
http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/10/vipercomp03_engine.jpg
Please explain to me how the suspension is custom mounted, and can be moved to anywhere else on the whim of the driver. I would love to know how this is done so that I can pass on said info on to several Viper tuners and builders that I know, since I'm sure they didn't know about this either. Oh, and this picture also shows the "tube frame" portion of the car, which in reality is just bolt on cross bracing and a tubular k-member.

[90RS13]

I wouldn't trust that listed curb weight as far as I could throw that car

Yeah, I know if I was a car company, I would definantly list cars as being heavier than they are. People are always asking for heavier cars. :jerkit:

The picture you show does not show half of whats going on in that car, and its no surprise the system is not in that photo. Maybe someone has some pit photos of the cockpit which show the adjustment but I have never seen any yet.

So once again your telling us you've never seen the controls for adjustment, but are going to say that it's not fair that he has them. Why are you not suprised it's not in the picture? The car Sam uses doesn't have different features. It's the same Comp Coupe. I've searched on this and read all about the Comp Coupe and I never read anything about cockpit adjustable suspension. Which makes sense, seeing how the car is designed for races where that is pointless. GT cars, Lemans cars, etc; don't have cockpit adjustable suspensions. They have crew cheifs that make their adjustments in the pits. When the driver's in the car, he needs to worry about driving, not adjusting the rebound on his dampers.

Either way, this thread is steadily becoming more and more retarded, and it's apparent that people aren't going to listen to reason or admit when they're wrong, so I'm not going to waste my time posting on it anymore.

[Var]

Yeah, I know if I was a car company, I would definantly list cars as being heavier than they are. People are always asking for heavier cars. :jerkit:

the curb weight for a stock viper is around 3300. the point was that it can be modified when it get's to the owner.


i agree/disagree with the David & Goliath comment. Driver skill would be more apparent, but it would take a lot of the fun out of the drifting scene. Maybe they should have people qualify in spec cars then they can bring their own car out to compete but it should meet a certain price cap. like 40 grand. non of this is going to happen but specualting is fun, especially when everyone's getting upset over nothing. :)

What would really be THE SHIT is to forget the sissy track bullshit, they should have drift competitions in the mountains. Basically like smoothly paved rally style road that they close off for competition. Then maybe i would bother watching and learning the names of the drivers.

[thx247]

I see no point in continuing this, I stated what I saw and there is nothing more I can say to prove it.


And who said the suspension mounts could be changed? They are only changed once- when the chassis is made. Having a tube frame gives you the ability to put your mount points anywhere you like, unlike a traditional chassis which requires you to conform to the OEM mount points.

Mountian drifting is already alive an well in Europe and the rest of the world, its just called WRC. ;)

[Jaggorri]

And who said the suspension mounts could be changed? They are only changed once- when the chassis is made. Having a tube frame gives you the ability to put your mount points anywhere you like, unlike a traditional chassis which requires you to conform to the OEM mount points.
One more time for the cheap seats:
THE VIPER COMP COUPE IS NOT A TUBE FRAME CAR.
Bloody hell. I still don't understand why this is so difficult for you to comprehend.

[Var]

Mountian drifting is already alive an well in Europe and the rest of the world, its just called WRC. ;)



WRC is too hardcore although it's the most kickass form of racing ever. drifting is not racing. ***style points in the mountains**
that would rule

[DoriftoSlut]

Drifting is not racing. It is fucking ice skating for christs sake.

If you had some worn, beat-ass, skates from 1962 with hempstring laces and no ankle support, you would have a hell of a time landing your triple salchow, but you could do it if you were a good skater. It may break your ankle or not be as high as other skaters, but hey... Thats like driving an AE86.

If you had some diamond-encrusted hand made Italian leather skates with carbon reinforcements and sole, and a laser sharpened titanium blade, landing your manouvers would be less difficult. That would be driving a 460ps S15.

Sam's car would be a bio-engineered, gene-therapy-enhanced nano-machine carrying cyborg that could hover and had the flexibility of a gymnast with the power of a hockey player.

[DoriftoSlut]

Oh yeah, and the amount of custom suspension mods that car had... and the power modifications... its not a stock Competition coupe.... which has a full tube frame front for crying out loud, look at the picture!!

Check this out. I was at Signal one day when Chris still worked there. A kid came in asking how much to make his 240sx into one of the "drifter twins" S1580, to the "t". About $50k. Including paint, aero, wheels, engine, engine parts, interior parts, tuning, all labor for install, all custom labor for IC, rollcage, all materials, etc...

Going by that, i would say that to replicate Taniguchi's HKS S15, assuming you can't do any of the work yourself and pay retail on every part, would be maybe 60-70k including your $10k used S15. of course it would not include any R&D put into developing new parts or testing, or anything like that. it would just be parts bin shopping and paying for them to be installed.

Now, a Competition Coupe costs $125k from the factory not including any of the mods that were made to Sam's (to think that thing has "520" claimed hp and unmodified suspension bits is uhhh.... beyond wrong. Ask any of the drivers who tested that car when Mopar was "considering" their Formula D effort. They did not drive stock SRT10s, they actually tested Tarzan's car. But the results weren't terrific. It was very short on steering angle and the feel of the suspension was not great. Plus a bunch of other stuff i was told that i forget the specifics on, so im not gonna risk posting bad misinformation. What everyone did tell me was how fast the car was and how much torque it had. They said you could basically start in third gear, launch, accelerate, drift, exit, etc... all just in 3rd. There isn't much shifting you need to do, just throttle modulation. No feinting or ebraking or anythign liek that, just turn the car and step on the gas a lot.

Just cause it's based off the Copetition coupe, doesn't mean that its a stock competition coupe. Even then, a stock comp. coupe is a RACE CAR! I wouldn't have any objection if thy started with a base SRT10 and built it from there. Shit, a base SRT10 would still be more than most D1 cars. Heh. And a LOT more power.

Yeah Rhys's car is super modified and not hardly a GTO anymore. Oh well, at least at one point it was a showroom stock GTO, not a Trans-AM GTO or something. All the modifications done to it were because its not a great chassis (at least for drifting) from the factory, where as S chassis for example are pretty well suited for sideways mobility.

And what's this with US "teams" and their pursuit for steering angle? They think everything has to do wtih how much the front wheels turn and keep grip? I asked (through an interpretor) how Miki liked his D1 Top Secret S15 versus his blue S14 he used to run. He said the S15 car is built to understeer and that it is a misconception with many drifters that you need front grip all the time. He said that at high drift angles, his frotn tires are also losing a bit of traction, and that in an oversteering car, the tail will come out and you will spin. In an understeering car, the tail will come around but then also the front will push out and they cancel each other and make the car walk sideways.

Rhys has been impressive sliding his car around when i saw him, but it seems like it is an oversteering car with a lot of steering angle, all he has to do is point the front wheels and modulate the throttle. This is why I am always more impressed watching the J-Land D1 guys. Their cars suppliment their skill, not supply it. They work so hard with all sorts of techniques to keep speed and angle etc in relatively simple cars... and not only is that more exciting, it shows a higher level of skill (drifting at least). By simple i mean: Tie rod spacers, tires/wheel upgrade, coilovers, power... Aerokits, etc.... thats all extra, and the "show/impact" portion of drifting. Its not like you need a super large amount of technology to get your car sideways.

[Brian]

Lindsay kciks everybody's ass.
you speak gospels my friend. gospels.

[MakotoS13]

Sam's car would be a bio-engineered, gene-therapy-enhanced nano-machine carrying cyborg that could hover and had the flexibility of a gymnast with the power of a hockey player.

someone once said this to me when i ranted about some moron having a nice car:

put a retard in a porsche GT3 and a race car driver in a golf cart. now instruct them to go through the same hairpin turn.

who the hell do you think is gonna nail that turn instead of ditching a car?

yeah, one car might be vastly superior but who careS? the other teams could do that, they don't, their loss. besides, you don't KNOW that this car ISN'T stock so you could be making all of this up.

okay, maybe you do KNOW it... so prove it.

eh, proof or not i don't care. thtis is like arguing about which kind of skateboard you like best... just dive in and shut the hell up.

[Var]

put the same skilled drivers in different cars. who will win? the guy with the better car.

[Jaggorri]

Oh my god. You people are hopeless. I have been screaming that the Comp Coupe is not a tube frame car, since I have worked on the god damned things, but no, you all insist on posted heresay and second hand info.

Forget it. I give up. You people will believe what you want, regardless of the tech that is brought to the table.

[DoriftoSlut]

yeah, one car might be vastly superior but who careS? the other teams could do that, they don't, their loss. besides, you don't KNOW that this car ISN'T stock so you could be making all of this up.

Perhaps I am not making this up because I am really good friends with most of the drivers who were invited to test the Viper. Oh, but Mopar tells the press such ans such so they must be telling the complete truth....

The car Sam hubinette drives is NOT the same thing as the one Tarzan drives.

Yes it is. The suspension was even modified per Tarzan's suggestions and the settings were taken from his car's drift "mode". Did they make any changes since then? I don't know, i admit it, this was a while ago. Almost 3/4 of a year or so. Do i think they ditched all that and made the comp coupe stock again? HAHAHA no. Do any of my friends who drove it believe it has 520 hp? No.

Each car must maintain the OEM uni-body structure, Pipe Frame Chasis (including pipe-frame extentions) are not allowed in any D1 Competition. No Exceptions!

Is it just me? Or does that comp coupe picture show you a tube frame front end? I mean shit, my brain only interprets little chemical synapses from my ocular nerves, but to me, all those tubes look suspiciously like pipe-frame extensions.

[DoriftoSlut]

Oh my god. You people are hopeless. I have been screaming that the Comp Coupe is not a tube frame car, since I have worked on the god damned things, but no, you all insist on posted heresay and second hand info.

Forget it. I give up. You people will believe what you want, regardless of the tech that is brought to the table.

http://www.timberlinedodge.com/images/vipercompcouperepair.jpg

Everything chassis wise i see on the car is either pipe tubes or box tube welded together.

[Jaggorri]

Then you are either A) completely blind or B) very lacking in knowledge when is comes to non-unibody cars.

Lets start with the obvious tubes you see over the engine. You know, the ones that look like a big X? That is a bolt on cross brace because Vipers are notorious for front end flex. Do you know what bolt on means? It means those circular ends where the tubes intersect are hollow, and that is where the bolts go through, hence the term "bolt on". Now, do you see that tube coming down from the suspesion mounting point to the frame of the car at about a 60deg angle? Yup, it's bolt on too. It's a k-member support. A k-member, for those of you that have never touched an American car, is what the suspension bolts up to. You typically find tubular K-members in Mustangs running the Grigg's GR-40 suspension setup because it enables greater adjustability for camber, caster, toe, and it eliminates bind. Comp Coupes come with it form the factory, because Mopar knows what they are doing. As I stated before, if you can show me how the suspension can be moved and/or custom mounted from the factory, please let me know. I have several Viper owners/tuners/builders that would be very interested in said information. Moving right along, do you see that big, gigantic, gray colored piece of metal that the exhaust is routed through? Yes, that one. That would be the frame. You know, the frame that all of you idiots are claiming is tubular? Well guess what, it's not. It's a standard Viper SRT-10 Frame, which, incase you haven't been paying attention, and I know you haven't, is not a tubular frame. It is a boxed aluminum frame that is found on every second generation Viper.

Now, before you start in about how a boxed aluminum frame is "tubular", guess what? So is the frame on the GTO, except it's steel. Corvettes? Same thing. Tubular frames are typically defined as frames made from (are you ready for this?) round tubes, except in the drifting world, where apparently anything that has one round tube in plain view must mean the entire chassis is tubed framed. Guess what? That's not what a tube framed chassis is. Tube frame chassis cars are built from the ground up using either tubular steel or tubular chromoly. If you want a tube frame chassis, look at Pro-Stock drag cars. As I've stated before, your definaition of a "tubular frame" is way off, sorry to tell you guys.

Oh, and one more thing DoriftoSlut- Just because Benson (Yup, I know him too), tested the Viper for Mopar does not make him an expert on all things RWD V-10. If you want enough suspensoin and Viper setup information to make your eyes glaze over, try contacting Eric Messley at EMI or Ted May at Valaya Racing. Be sure to ask Eric about his 1st gen Viper GTS-R and Paul Mumford's OTC/Viper Days/SCCA dominating Viper Comp Coupe that he set up. I'm sure he'll be shocked and amazed to learn that PMUM's Comp Coupe was a tube frame car with adjustable suspension mounting points.

Thanks, and have a nice day.

Byron

[DoriftoSlut]

Hi Byron. Glad you know Benson. I actually didn't talk to him about testing the Viper, although he did. I mostly talked to Alex Pfeiffer and Tony Angelo, amongst others who tested it. I'm not some random fan whoawas asking about how a Viper feels, I am good friends with them and we hang out on a regular basis. There is no reason for them to lie to me about what they felt, talked about and drove.

But as for all that bracing on the front end (ok, i guess it has to be round tubes then).... if i cut out all my front end except for my frame rails and cross member then made a jungle gym of connecting bars to stiffen everything up, out of round tube, what would it be considered? I'm not saying its a full tube frame car, i never claimed that here, I merely inquired that to me (i guess i am uneducated) that would be a pipe-frame extension, which is stated as illegal in the D1 rules. IMO i would have been REPLACING all my stock unibody front end with tube bracing and stuff. i think that's what the D1 is classifying as illegal. Now, the Viper: ALL VIPERS as you are saying, come with this type of front end stock. Well the end result seems to be the same thing, how is one legal, and one not?

Maybe i am misinformed or my terms or wrong (i mean shit, i am only a stupid drifter. i don't do that real hard racing).

Anyways, checked the price on a stock Viper. $83,000 MSRP. Thats way more than ANY D1 car costs. I just think its funny, not saying its an excuse, its just funny. And its funny that under 2,000 RPM the stock viper has over 300 lbs feet of torque. And under 3,000 rpm its almost 400. No other sports car in the world has that kind of torque curve! Haha I mean shit, Chris's car doesn't even make 400 ft/lbs, and its peak is probably at 6,000 rpm.

You typically find tubular K-members in Mustangs running the Grigg's GR-40 suspension setup because it enables greater adjustability for camber, caster, toe, and it eliminates bind. Comp Coupes come with it form the factory, because Mopar knows what they are doing. As I stated before, if you can show me how the suspension can be moved and/or custom mounted from the factory, please let me know. I have several Viper owners/tuners/builders that would be very interested in said information.See, you said Tubular, adn that Mustangs replace stock bits with it, but the Viper comes with it from the factory cause they know what they are doing. Ok. Still, form the factory or not, did you not just say tubular (and not in that cheesy 80's Cali surfer type way ;) ). Please, if i am offbase on my definitions, be more specific in your word use as to not confuse me.

As fro custom mounting suspension parts FROM THE FACTORY.... did i ever say that? I have no way to back that up other than speculation. I think somone else said that. I won't spread conjecture, i only spread what i have come to determine truth. But still, i may be wrong.... Anyways, do i think that it is improbable that they could have modified suspension points and shit? No i don't think that is out of the question, but i can't prove it, so i assume they didn't. Besides, what is left off of a $125k race car?

Oh and one more reason why it wouldnt be allowed in D1 in the state its in: No Cats. Not that its the Only car, i reckon there are plenty others. But D1 rules specify the cars bust me street legal (in japan) and run cats. Hell, even in japan that car would not be street legal, therefore would again technically not be allowed in D1. I'm sure to show us American "hot heads" how much we still suck, Keiichi would allw the Viper to run, and watch it get embarassed by plenty of J-Guys. I would love to see Asamoto drive against Sam in that car. Cause Sam would try his push out of the inner line Technique for sure, and Asamoto being the maniac with no self preservation skills would just allow him to dominate the FD. Then come back and Own him from behind. That will teach thsoe filthy Americans that their stupid car that stupid Tarzan drives all... all... stupidly.

Ok, well whatever, it can be beat, Sam can be beat, lets all jump around singing. Or just find Pfeiffer, Dai, Tony and Forsberg an extra $100k each to get their cars up to par.

[Jaggorri]

Before I begin, let me apologize for how short I was in my last post. I have been trying to explain the Viper Comp Coupe throughout this entire post, and even though I have worked on them, everyone seems to think I am completely incorrect with everything I have said. Hence, why I was considerably rude in my last response. Now, to address your response:
Hi Byron. Glad you know Benson. I actually didn't talk to him about testing the Viper, although he did. I mostly talked to Alex Pfeiffer and Tony Angelo, amongst others who tested it. I'm not some random fan whoawas asking about how a Viper feels, I am good friends with them and we hang out on a regular basis. There is no reason for them to lie to me about what they felt, talked about and drove.
Ah, Okay, Next time you talk to Alex, tell him Byron, Jay, and TJ from NorCal all say hello. I wasn't saying you were lying in the least bit, I was merely trying to show that the car is not a tube frame chasis as everyone in this post (save a few) seem to think it is.
But as for all that bracing on the front end (ok, i guess it has to be round tubes then).... if i cut out all my front end except for my frame rails and cross member then made a jungle gym of connecting bars to stiffen everything up, out of round tube, what would it be considered?
Replacing stock components, i.e. frame rails from the firewall forward, would be considered a half-tube chassis. While the Viper looks like it has this, the frame actually extends all the way to the front, like on the standard SRT-10, which is what the engine mounts are attached to. The rest of the jungle gym you see in the above picture is merely bracing for the suspension. You have to remember that the Viper CC was built for one explicit purpose: To win road racing events. As a result, Mopar put in as much chassis stifening as they could. The car was not really designed to go sideways, although it seems to have little issue with doing so with the correct set up. It was meant to grab the tarmac in a stranglehold of grip and utterly dominate the C5-R and whatever offerings the Porsche and Ford camps bring to the table.
ALL VIPERS as you are saying, come with this type of front end stock. Well the end result seems to be the same thing, how is one legal, and one not?
Ah, now here is the $25,000 question. No, not all Vipers come like this stock. Only the Competition Coupes have these modifications. They also come with a full roll cage from the factory. You see, the CC is only meant for people who race and when they first came out, the only way you could buy one was to prove you had a winning record in road racing events, be it SCCA, NASA, Viper Days, whatever. The SRT-10 doesn't feature half of the bracing that you see on the CC because it was meant as more of an all around, albeit expensive, car. Imagine the CC as the bigger, steroided up, iron pumping brother of the standard SRT-10. Therein lies your difference.
Anyways, checked the price on a stock Viper. $83,000 MSRP. Thats way more than ANY D1 car costs.
Actually, it gets worse. The CC is typically around $125,000, and that doesn't even include paint. The CC comes in white primer as Mopar figures that if you were able to buy one, then you have sponsors that want their name on your car, and will probably cover the cost of the paint job. The CC is truly a factory race car, much like the Plymouth Roadrunner Superbird was.
See, you said Tubular, adn that Mustangs replace stock bits with it, but the Viper comes with it from the factory cause they know what they are doing. Ok. Still, form the factory or not, did you not just say tubular (and not in that cheesy 80's Cali surfer type way ;) ). Please, if i am offbase on my definitions, be more specific in your word use as to not confuse me.
Nope, you are correct. The k-member is tubular (as in round, not "Whoa, DUDE! Surf's up!") because it's stronger and takes up less room than a factory cast piece. While this is a bit off the subject, tubular k-members on Mustangs allow the engine to be mounted lower and closer to the firewall, thus achieving better balance overall. Anyway, back to Vipers...

As fro custom mounting suspension parts FROM THE FACTORY.... did i ever say that? I have no way to back that up other than speculation. I think somone else said that. I won't spread conjecture, i only spread what i have come to determine truth. But still, i may be wrong.... Anyways, do i think that it is improbable that they could have modified suspension points and shit? No i don't think that is out of the question, but i can't prove it, so i assume they didn't. Besides, what is left off of a $125k race car?
No you didn't say that. That was held over anger from an earlier post in this thread, where lots of conjecture and asshatted guessing was taking place. Sorry to let loose on you with that one.

While I have no doubt that they can modify suspension points, the car was set up a certain way from the factory to achieve maximum grip. Even Eric Messley over at EMI leaves the mounting points alone on the CC's he works on, yet his Vipers are some of the best handling Mopars in the world today. I don't think drifters would mess with the mounting points on the CC, and after having seen pictures of Sam's car up close, he sure didn't touch them either.

Oh and one more reason why it wouldnt be allowed in D1 in the state its in: No Cats. Not that its the Only car, i reckon there are plenty others. But D1 rules specify the cars bust me street legal (in japan) and run cats. Hell, even in japan that car would not be street legal, therefore would again technically not be allowed in D1.
Ah, well that changes the game considerably since the Comp Coupe isn't even legal on U.S. roads. That is one of the stipulations of purchasing that monster- It can never be registered or driven on public streets because it is simply illegal (pick your reason why- lexan windows, welded in cage, fuel cell, no cats...). I never knew the cars had to be street legal. You would think, judging by the flames the D1 cars spit out, that they weren't running cats either. Learn somethign new everyday I guess!
Ok, well whatever, it can be beat, Sam can be beat, lets all jump around singing. Or just find Pfeiffer, Dai, Tony and Forsberg an extra $100k each to get their cars up to par.
Damn right it can be beat. too bad Alex didn't pull off the upset in the first round of Formula D when he went head to head with Sam. That would have been PRICELESS!

Have a good one,
Byron

[DoriftoSlut]

YEah, its interesting... in Dori Ten and BM mags and shit you see ads for the Nismo hi-flow cats (taniguchi, Kazama, Nomuken, etc.. all run this). Yeah its a kinda weird rule, but its in place, in my best guess, to stop people from entering a GT300 car or something and doing basically what Sam has done. It levels the playing feild by stating that all cars must be based off a production car and retain a catalytic converter. Suprisingly, all but maybe the top 15 teams or so (even some of those drivers) daily drive their cars. Like Takahashi in the Blood Red Night Walkers JZX100 Chaser, all the Night Walkers/ Team Devilz JZx cars, a lot of the S chassis, a lot of the Hachi's... Its quite suprising.

Anywyas, yeah i see what you mean how the frame rails come all the way to the K member. Thanks for the explanation. As for all the bracing and stuff for the shock towers and all that other stuff... I dunno. I think my Formula D's rules the car was probably legal, but its pretty clear that a full race car even at the (imo) inaccurate 520 hp claim is vastly superior than every other car by leaps and bounds. And the price for the car alone cost so much, how can you expect the other teams (except for factory backed driver.... whats up with that?) to replicate that level of engineering?

Anyways, I'm sure someone will realize what a waste it is using a car liek that fro drifting. And its got such a huge fanbase of retards, i would think that if anything this whole Formula D effort has been a bad publicity for Mopar (at least in the eyes of A. real drifters and B. real racers.). But hey, corporations love money and exposure right? Gotta sell those Vipers to the EG Civic boyz!

[z0iid]

::makotos13:: - you probably mean Porsche GT2....

[Var]

::makotos13:: - you probably mean Porsche GT2....


ya it's a close call. cause the golf kart is almost better then the GT3. :confused:

[MakotoS13]

::makotos13:: - you probably mean Porsche GT2....


what the hell did i say? GT3

visual confirmation needed?
http://i15.ebayimg.com/03/i/00/c8/93/f2_1.JPG
http://www.roadfly.org/magazine/galleries/article_photos_2004/photos/photos-05-2004/911-GT3-at-the-Porsche-Owners-Club-meet-pic-23-7307072.jpg

p.s. i don't see a tube framed race car by any means in regards to the viper. check out the inside of a tube frame NHRA drag car and say that looks similar....

[theronin]

everyone complaining. but they voted to let him run... sand + vagina = ???

[OptionZero]

I wanna see this drift:

http://tfkenkon.com/g/albums/Collection/act258/deadend11.jpg


but it might be unfair and destroy the competition because it can do this:


http://tfkenkon.com/g/albums/Collection/act258/deadend21.jpg

:aw: Don't know if D1 and FD rules prohibit alien technology... :duh:

[meatish]

It states in the FD rule book that the use of energon is strictly prohibited. Although, drivers can vote to allow one autobot competitor in.

[OptionZero]

I guess this decepticon can't enter then.

[mikespeed95]

put the same skilled drivers in different cars. who will win? the guy with the better car.


negative ghostwriter. skill > car by far. if you need proof go to an auto-x. ive beaten many cars i shoudl have.

[mikespeed95]

Oh yeah, and the amount of custom suspension mods that car had... and the power modifications... its not a stock Competition coupe.... which has a full tube frame front for crying out loud, look at the picture!!

Check this out. I was at Signal one day when Chris still worked there. A kid came in asking how much to make his 240sx into one of the "drifter twins" S1580, to the "t". About $50k. Including paint, aero, wheels, engine, engine parts, interior parts, tuning, all labor for install, all custom labor for IC, rollcage, all materials, etc...

Going by that, i would say that to replicate Taniguchi's HKS S15, assuming you can't do any of the work yourself and pay retail on every part, would be maybe 60-70k including your $10k used S15. of course it would not include any R&D put into developing new parts or testing, or anything like that. it would just be parts bin shopping and paying for them to be installed.

Now, a Competition Coupe costs $125k from the factory not including any of the mods that were made to Sam's (to think that thing has "520" claimed hp and unmodified suspension bits is uhhh.... beyond wrong. Ask any of the drivers who tested that car when Mopar was "considering" their Formula D effort. They did not drive stock SRT10s, they actually tested Tarzan's car. But the results weren't terrific. It was very short on steering angle and the feel of the suspension was not great. Plus a bunch of other stuff i was told that i forget the specifics on, so im not gonna risk posting bad misinformation. What everyone did tell me was how fast the car was and how much torque it had. They said you could basically start in third gear, launch, accelerate, drift, exit, etc... all just in 3rd. There isn't much shifting you need to do, just throttle modulation. No feinting or ebraking or anythign liek that, just turn the car and step on the gas a lot.

Just cause it's based off the Copetition coupe, doesn't mean that its a stock competition coupe. Even then, a stock comp. coupe is a RACE CAR! I wouldn't have any objection if thy started with a base SRT10 and built it from there. Shit, a base SRT10 would still be more than most D1 cars. Heh. And a LOT more power.

Yeah Rhys's car is super modified and not hardly a GTO anymore. Oh well, at least at one point it was a showroom stock GTO, not a Trans-AM GTO or something. All the modifications done to it were because its not a great chassis (at least for drifting) from the factory, where as S chassis for example are pretty well suited for sideways mobility.

And what's this with US "teams" and their pursuit for steering angle? They think everything has to do wtih how much the front wheels turn and keep grip? I asked (through an interpretor) how Miki liked his D1 Top Secret S15 versus his blue S14 he used to run. He said the S15 car is built to understeer and that it is a misconception with many drifters that you need front grip all the time. He said that at high drift angles, his frotn tires are also losing a bit of traction, and that in an oversteering car, the tail will come out and you will spin. In an understeering car, the tail will come around but then also the front will push out and they cancel each other and make the car walk sideways.

Rhys has been impressive sliding his car around when i saw him, but it seems like it is an oversteering car with a lot of steering angle, all he has to do is point the front wheels and modulate the throttle. This is why I am always more impressed watching the J-Land D1 guys. Their cars suppliment their skill, not supply it. They work so hard with all sorts of techniques to keep speed and angle etc in relatively simple cars... and not only is that more exciting, it shows a higher level of skill (drifting at least). By simple i mean: Tie rod spacers, tires/wheel upgrade, coilovers, power... Aerokits, etc.... thats all extra, and the "show/impact" portion of drifting. Its not like you need a super large amount of technology to get your car sideways.

I dont know you so dont take it personal , this is from my experience.


1) the viper WILL NOT be back next year. a drivers meeting it was voted to be ALLOWED to compete. FD will not allow the comp coupe back next year. end of story.


2) more steering angle means more angle. I honestly dont understand your attack on the quest for more steering angle everyone is after. when your driving at full lock while a rush its much nicer to know you have some turn in the wheel left to control the car. on the el camino ( www.bubbadrift.com ) weve done a lot to increase steering angle, why? bc it helps with control in the drift and allows more angle when drifting.

3) a gto is a toally super awesome drift car, go drive one. if you cant get it sideways please stop posting in drift related topics. rhys is factory backed by pontiac. if you had that kind of r&d available to make the most bad arse drift car you could woudl you use it? i know i sure would.

[Var]

negative ghostwriter. skill > car by far. if you need proof go to an auto-x. ive beaten many cars i shoudl have.


are you seroius? did you read what i wrote at all?

here it is again in different words

Put 2 drivers with the same skill level in 2 different cars. who will win? the guy with the better car.

[dct223]

everything i go on zilvia... i ALWAYS see this topic being replied to last on motorsports... lol...

must be some big arguments... everyone needs to simma down =D

[mikespeed95]

are you seroius? did you read what i wrote at all?

here it is again in different words

Put 2 drivers with the same skill level in 2 different cars. who will win? the guy with the better car.


i also screwed up my statement.

i have beaten many cars i shouldnt have at auto-x. if youd like to lie with the results please do, they are at tamscc.org . among my kill list in rental cars is countless 4th gen fbodies, mustangs, a porsche gt-3 , lotus esprit, civics, miatas etc etc.

put jeff gordon in a stock gto on crap tires and put some high schooler in a ferrari enzo on R compounds on a technical auot-x course. teh skilled driver will win over the n00b who will not know wtf they are doign , eat cones and flat spot the tires.

[Var]

i also screwed up my statement.

i have beaten many cars i shouldnt have at auto-x. if youd like to lie with the results please do, they are at tamscc.org . among my kill list in rental cars is countless 4th gen fbodies, mustangs, a porsche gt-3 , lotus esprit, civics, miatas etc etc.

put jeff gordon in a stock gto on crap tires and put some high schooler in a ferrari enzo on R compounds on a technical auot-x course. teh skilled driver will win over the n00b who will not know wtf they are doign , eat cones and flat spot the tires.


Ok so what you are saying is the cliche driver over car statement. And you are by all means correct. But i was saying something different. I'm saying that all those guys in D1 are in the same general skill level. Who knows what would have happened had Sam not driven the beast. Not taking anything away from Sam cause i heard he was an ice racer in Sweden so sliding is second nature to him

[JaeTea]

put jeff gordon in a stock gto on crap tires and put some high schooler in a ferrari enzo on R compounds on a technical auot-x course. teh skilled driver will win over the n00b who will not know wtf they are doign , eat cones and flat spot the tires.


Put 2 drivers with the same skill level

Are you reading any of his posts? :confused:

[mikespeed95]

i guess not, but that guy in your sig is hawtz0r!!1

[MakotoS13]

i think they should all have my car
http://angelcomps.com/OTHER/JDMDUG.JPG
that'd be fair

[Var]

i think there are still 2 or 3 threads where you havent posted this pic yet

[Kreator]

everything i go on zilvia... i ALWAYS see this topic being replied to last on motorsports... lol...

must be some big arguments... everyone needs to simma down =D

lol, no shit, exactly what i thought

now read my sig fawkers :fawkd: and realize how stupid your argument is :bowrofl: