Are wilwood brakes any good? BBK on a budget?

[turboshoebox]

So I ideally I'd like proven bbk from a proven company such as stoptech, brembo, ap racing, project mu, endless etc. but then price is too do dang high.

Do I need to them? nope! Do they look cool. Hell yeah!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2769/4457657192_2e6dd62984_o.jpg


So now here I see wilwoods. They are way cheaper. My concern is there has to be a reason they are so much cheaper then the known brands. There has to be something missing. So are these things any good? I know to cheap out on brakes a silly idea to begin with.


http://g35driver.com/forums/attachments/brakes-suspension/40090d1145740361-wilwood-13-6-bbk-arrived-w1.jpg
This brand name doesn't invoke thoughts of big ballin by the brand nor the look of their caliper/rotor either. So what is the general idea? I see these on FD cars but then again they are a sponsor. People will take anything they can take for free and fd cars aren't exactly known to be the best. so Good brand or skip it and save up for a real brand?

[burnsauto]

They are great brakes for the money. You may not get the Ultra-JDM-Showpoints-Awesome-Envy from them, but you'll get over it when you're not selling your blood for brakes.

[KAT-PWR]

If you're just going with a 4 piston why bother doing anything else than a proper Z32 set up? If you're really feeling froggy get the track rotor
http://i29.tinypic.com/2j32tc1.jpgz
From what i understand is you don't care about the performance
And you don't want to spend money big money
So why bother spending any more money than you have to?

[Duker]

Could also do a Brembo porsche 18z or 17z setup using Z34 355mm rotors.
$1500 should do the front and rear.

[jr_ss]

There's many reasons to choose Wilwoods over the Z brakes. They are lighter, combined with the two piece rotors you'd shave quite a bit of unsprung weight. Additionally, pads are much cheaper for the Wilwoods vs Z32 or Brembo alternatives.

[burnsauto]

Good Point. I'll also trust the engineers and tech's at Wilwood, over pulling parts off a car at a junkyard.

[Z32TwinTurbo]

Get CTSV 4 piston brakes! They look cool and have plenty of stopping power probably around the same price as the wilwoods. I'm very happy with them on my coupe

[KAT-PWR]

Good Point. I'll also trust the engineers and tech's at Wilwood, over pulling parts off a car at a junkyard.


So you trust an independent company's engineers vs a multibillion dollar corporation that builds cars engineers?
Wat
Rebuilding calipers takes like 30minutes and a rebuild kit is cheap. If you're not caring about the performance you're literally spending double the money so the brakes say wilwood instead of nissan

[BossHogg]

Just go z32 or r32 brakes. You can always buy 2 piece rotors....way better ones than wilwood and good pads. Wilwood always looks like cheap junk every time I see them.....and its usually on some old muscle car that got rid of drums or on some lowrider truck etc. Seems like that is the only time I ever see wilwood brakes. Just my opinion.

[turboshoebox]

So you trust an independent company's engineers vs a multibillion dollar corporation that builds cars engineers?
Wat
Rebuilding calipers takes like 30minutes and a rebuild kit is cheap. If you're not caring about the performance you're literally spending double the money so the brakes say wilwood instead of nissan

Willwood bbks are like 800 dollars! lol

I'm sure for that same price one could find r34 gtr brembo calipers and a 2 piece rotor

[turboshoebox]

Just go z32 or r32 brakes. You can always buy 2 piece rotors....way better ones than wilwood and good pads. Wilwood always looks like cheap junk every time I see them.....and its usually on some old muscle car that got rid of drums or on some lowrider truck etc. Seems like that is the only time I ever see wilwood brakes. Just my opinion.

As silly as it sounds people love bbks cause well they look cool! Wilwoods i feel don't have any cool factor either but the price is super cheap.

[codyace]

Want good brakes, get a DefSport 4 piston BBK with a two piece rotor. Too expensive? Run a Z32 setup and be content. That's really all you need to know.

[yomisiu]

cts-v brakes are like 300 or 400 brand new on ebae
http://i.imgur.com/1AskIcb.jpg

[turboshoebox]

I see ur thing is upgrading ur car with oem parts from other cars. lol

Like the 350z wheels as well

[yomisiu]

not my car... but if you're on a budget why not

[burnsauto]

So you trust an independent company's engineers vs a multibillion dollar corporation that builds cars engineers?
Wat
Rebuilding calipers takes like 30minutes and a rebuild kit is cheap. If you're not caring about the performance you're literally spending double the money so the brakes say wilwood instead of nissan

To put it simply, yes. I get the luxury of seeing what engineers from car manufacturers come up with on a daily basis, it's not always what it's cracked up to be.

Wilwood is a fairly inexpensive upgrade from an aftermarket company. Their S chassis specific kit runs just over 1k, which compared to other quality aftermarket BBK is very affordable.

I'm not here to go back and forth about which one is superior. The original poster asked if they were quality brakes, which they are, which I stated. If there are cheaper options out there that people have good experiences with, fine.

[turboshoebox]

not my car... but if you're on a budget why not

shiet son this poverty brakes are my last choice due to budget. lol

if money was no object....

Billet Project Mu's for sure
http://www.worldtimeattack.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/article_test4.jpg

http://www.nsxprime.com/photopost/data/936/102_7406.jpg

http://www.nsxprime.com/photopost/data/936/102_7411.jpg

[yomisiu]

Do I need to them? nope! Do they look cool. Hell yeah!


wait... OP only wants different brakes because they look cool?

[jr_ss]

Wilwood is a fairly inexpensive upgrade from an aftermarket company. Their S chassis specific kit runs just over 1k, which compared to other quality aftermarket BBK is very affordable.

As stated by Cody, you can get Def's kit and spend under 1k for a great setup.

[turboshoebox]

wait... OP only wants different brakes because they look cool?

https://naritadogfight.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/ndf_9373-edit.jpg

[Praxis]

Wilwood is a solid company, with a long track record of racing.

You cant go wrong with them. From Nascar, sprint, dirt, drag, open teack.....

Their s chassis kit, is all you need, but they can easily set you up with a more baller carbon ceramic set up, if that's what you want, and feel like you need yo spend $6000+ haha.

I would argue that wilwood are top dogs of performance, in business longer than many newbies in vogue right now.

[turboshoebox]

i've never heard of wilwood as a top contender when it came to brakes.

only "it get the job done for the price."

[Praxis]

i've never heard of wilwood as a top contender when it came to brakes.

only "it get the job done for the price."

Lol. That seems silly to me. But Im old, worked with several race teams in the early
90s, and even a couple Canada's Cascar series teams. Wilwood was always on top.

I dont know whats current, but just a few years ago, Nascar teams used pretty well 4 brands. Brembo, Alcon, AP, and wilwood.

[CompleteXen]

wait... OP only wants different brakes because they look cool?

He should just get some brake covers, perfect for OP.

[turboshoebox]

Even if i wanted go be a poser and go brembo covers it doesn't solve the fact that the rotor is the same size nor 2 piece

[turboshoebox]

http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/1335982773_1/universal-Small-BRAKE-CALIPER-COVERS-KIT-2PCS-RED-BREMBO-STYLE-fit-for-all-car-.jpg

vs

http://paceperformance.com/images/F65553169.jpg

[Matej]

From a pure safety standpoint, Wilwood is probably better than Greddy, Project Mu, Endless, or any of the Japanese brakes. They certainly look cool, but I would trust them about as much as Takata airbags or Bride seats.

No offense to people who think Japanese parts are God, but there is a reason no one runs them on real race cars outside of Japan.

[Croustibat]

Wilwood has been making parts for quite a long time now. Their customer base is made of racers. You don't hear about them because they don't do much advertising - and that is because they don't need to.

I got def's brake kit, based on wilwood 4 pots. They do a good job, you get a ton of pad choices from them AND from most aftermarket companies, and rotors are cheap too. I think it was around 50$ for a 300x32mm one.

pic (not my car) :
http://a.imageshack.us/img821/9255/img0672c.jpg

[mewantkouki]

I've got the wilwood fsl kit enjuku sells. I like them a lot, pedal feel is great. Only complaint I have was having to buy more shims to center the calipers on the rotor and they were kind of annoying to bleed. As far as a noticeable difference from the typical z32 / q45 setup everybody runs I can't really tell a difference in stopping power. Pedal feel between q45 & wilwood are very similar using a 15/16 master cylinder as opposed to the on-off switch that a z32 brake becomes with that master.

In conclusion: for the money, not really worth it unless you care about weight. Q45 brakes are the best bang for the buck with z31 rear caliper brackets / altima rotors.

[turboshoebox]

From a pure safety standpoint, Wilwood is probably better than Greddy, Project Mu, Endless, or any of the Japanese brakes. They certainly look cool, but I would trust them about as much as Takata airbags or Bride seats.

No offense to people who think Japanese parts are God, but there is a reason no one runs them on real race cars outside of Japan.

What a off the wall comment on quality as if we are taking about knock off brakes like megan racing or isis

[CompleteXen]

What a off the wall comment on quality as if we are taking about knock off brakes like megan racing or isis

In all seriousness man, Wilwood makes some great calipers. Coming from the Miata scene its pretty common for guys to update to a 4 piston front / 2 piston rear. I hear from a lot of guys that they love the upgrade and stand by it, but I hear from many who track their Miata's thats its better to just get a better pad and new rotors than to spend $1k+ on 4 piston brakes. Personally, I wouldn't go Wilwood or anything crazy unless I am going 6 piston+.

Style is everything, and you can paint Wilwood's if the color doesn't suit you.

But seriously, grab some 30mm Z32's and call it a day unless you grab a 6 piston setup. You can always run EVO Brembo's or CTS-V's but I don't remember what all you need and the pricing.

[NISR20MO]

Wilwood's are great bang for the buck. And if it's good enough for Nascar it's good enough for you.

+'s
a) new Calipers are ~$160 each
b) new Pads are ~$50 a set in TONS of compounds
c) calipers have various piston sizes available so you can do math and keep a near factory bias no matter what master cylinder and rear brakes you have
d) 4 and 6 Piston calipers will bolt to the same brackets
e) they are reallllly reasonably priced
f) calipers are very light

-'s
a) you don't have them already
b) no dust boots (which may decrease lifespan to a small degree)
c) they do not convert your calipers to radial mount which offers some avoidance of pad knockback
d) they are not JDM hype baller spec

[onehundredoctane]

Wilwoods all day.

I've had them on my S14 for years now and love them. The calipers are lightweight, I'm using a Z33 track rotor which is an easy to find off the shelf part. No they aren't uber JDM JACK OFF FANBOI brakes. They are brakes. They stop the car. They do it damn wel.

I've yet to experience any pedal fade after multiple auto-x events, 20+ passes at the drag strip, and tons of hard driving on mtn roads, you name it.

Much better braking than the stock set up and the Q45 I used to have, as well as the 300zx set up. The only reason I went with Wilwoods was for cost effectiveness. Best bang for the buck.

[Sleepy_Steve]

If I were to do it on a streetish car, I'd probably go for OneHundredOctane's Z33 track rotors with the willwood setup... rotors are more expensive upfront but you replace them less and don't have the initial cost of the rotor hats like the 2 piece kits.

I have a Def-Sport Willwood 4 pot front setup with HD Willwood rotors off summit, they take a beating and don't show much in the way of wear. Out back I have a Z32 setup and they pair very well together. In a perfect world I'd have splurged for the Z32 E-brake assembly as well.


But for me its a track car, and reliability + running costs on pads / rotors are the big issues for me. Circle track parts are well engineered and well tested by the biggest group of racers in this country. It's good enough for me, even without the bling factor.

[codyace]

i've never heard of wilwood as a top contender when it came to brakes.

only "it get the job done for the price."

Do you actually go to the track, or just read about it?





No offense to people who think Japanese parts are God, but there is a reason no one runs them on real race cars outside of Japan.

And even then, the real competitive cars run AP, or Alcon, Brembo, Endless, etc etc.


What a off the wall comment on quality as if we are taking about knock off brakes like megan racing or isis

In the grand scheme most of the 'pretty' kits are all the same junk.



But for me its a track car, and reliability + running costs on pads / rotors are the big issues for me. Circle track parts are well engineered and well tested by the biggest group of racers in this country. It's good enough for me, even without the bling factor.


Consumble cost vs performance all day!

...so long as long as they stop, even when hot :D

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/diItqa-HGBU41m1iS7yQ8A10-7pvqEhli_e8Zx4jliByS80z-oZf8NeoJifCzWX9Rz5KJBLgUwWyD05P8DGS84zLBgNmNj9Sck4 SdEhnVz235Lgxxk4vofm8HHsBbht9HCv-Ec2Jaesngk-4cpn04InHGskj7205ATIr6FHQ4wM74BFoFxF3J8l0vK0S0bbo-_BhSjjn9Hlbt24krNCTl5sxWWTlXIVjq-bR6TA5RSnn4TA6EVRzo6779Ke05H3UD2BnqhbFz7XH9A2L4OXI t4HD8FCVYuXUf8MtSQsjIo_wBn72WFrBcyw5CJ5Op5PLLvZRR2 Ed_qRH_onh4Nvopcr152kwAGaIkvjRBqYVxJJjc8qHeqHkWVUU 72Ow-HSjZUsHV21kfOnP0c6F7jtAhpeOeO6utQCoLmTRntHZqP10xe-pb2Xv-nyWjQbjjhHP0gefQmpGIJj5fVomfC_C47XvoqqiY5o1MDCVfzE aHbiBN15yjshXqeuOqOR6EEdcrx26FNOQUYni2h7Uh44srKy63 C89jVEgBsxFh35VUW4d=w603-h320-no

[codyace]

At the end of the day, if you want a pretty looking caliper, get whatever you can afford.

Unless you're being competitive, the Z32 kit is OVERKILL as it is, and you'll lock the tires down any tire you can put on the car, maybe this side of a R comp or a slick...and even that coudl happen with aggressive enough compounds.

[turboshoebox]

Cool got it. Stops great with out the bling or frills.

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

[onehundredoctane]

Cool got it. Stops great with out the bling or frills.

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

bling and frills. . .

:picardfp:


Phlip, can we get a thread lock on aisle 8 please?

Please explain what performance metric bling and frills fit into?

[ixfxi]

Real racers only race with TOP SHELF BRAKES

Real racers race with ROTORA

:-) hahahahahaha

im also laughing that in this day and age, someone doesnt understand that wilwood is a very well respected brake manufacturer.

[turboshoebox]

I don't doubt wilwood gets the job done but countless time after doing a google search about this brand has many gone with them due to best "bang for the buck."
These were people from all across the map of consumers.

Then again...many have gone the route of Megan, ISIS, cxracing, godspeed etc. due to bang for the replica buck not cause it was their first choice.

[ixfxi]

How about not being stupid? My advice, rather than reading hear-say... go to any race event, autox event, etc... and LOOK at what people are running. I can guarantee that you will NEVER go to an event where a car is NOT equipped with a Wilwood product.

The only reason people mention price with this product is because its very modestly priced. The excellent "bang for the buck" goes hand in hand with similar products, such as Enkei RP-F1 wheels.

If you are not a racer, than chances are you will be fine with the "standard" budget brake upgrade: the complete Z32 brake system. And yes, you need the master cylinder.

[Rustys14]

While we're on the topic of Willwood can someone chime on on whether or not the 4 pot Willwods offer more or less clearance for wheels then the Z32 setup. I track my car regularly (drifitng) and have never had an issue with brakes but I would like to start doing actual track days and I'm sure that the stock setup is going to give me grief over a session. The main issue that I have when it comes to upgrading brakes is that I run eurolines as daily wheels and the face design offers little room for brake clearance. I know that a z32 setup won't clear the works but I was wondering if Def's willwood kit might offer me enough clearance to get by.

I'll be running either A-Tech Monoblocks or RPF1s on track so there are no issues there, but I would really like to keep my daily wheels if at all possible.

[KAT-PWR]

While we're on the topic of Willwood can someone chime on on whether or not the 4 pot Willwods offer more or less clearance for wheels then the Z32 setup. I track my car regularly (drifitng) and have never had an issue with brakes but I would like to start doing actual track days and I'm sure that the stock setup is going to give me grief over a session. The main issue that I have when it comes to upgrading brakes is that I run eurolines as daily wheels and the face design offers little room for brake clearance. I know that a z32 setup won't clear the works but I was wondering if Def's willwood kit might offer me enough clearance to get by.

I'll be running either A-Tech Monoblocks or RPF1s on track so there are no issues there, but I would really like to keep my daily wheels if at all possible.

IIRC the eurolines have almost a flat spoke design in the back from whe i borrowed my friends. Being there are only a couple disc designs i doubt wilwoods would clear in any case the z32s don't.

[RalliartRsX]

While we're on the topic of Willwood can someone chime on on whether or not the 4 pot Willwods offer more or less clearance for wheels then the Z32 setup. ........

Def's kit is for a 12.2" rotor. I have a feeling 16" will clear by a hair depending on wheel design. RPF1s have some of the worst clearance for calipers I have seen due to the stepped inner lip design. I have pictures of Kosei k1 vs RPF1 same specs for clearance for reference when I was performing fitment on another of my vehicles.

NOTE: Please take note of rotor diameter and clearance measurements.

Caliper dimensions for Billet Superlite for example (all the information is available for free on Wilwoods website. Please do your own legwork...........)
http://wilwood.com/Images/Caliper/Images_dimensions-lg/Billet_Superlite_4_Lug_Mount-cm-lg.jpg

I always chuckle when people make silly assumptions.........See below for instance. :naughty:

way better ones than wilwood and good pads. Wilwood always looks like cheap junk every time I see them.....and its usually on some old muscle car that got rid of drums or on some lowrider truck etc. Seems like that is the only time I ever see wilwood brakes. Just my opinion.

1) Pads for Wilwoods are cheaper than any other brand name out there
2) Parts and available far exceed anything else out there (NASCAR facilitates this)
3) SS pistons means dust seals are not an issue at increased braking temps (read: trackdays)
4) When since have looks (which, is also VERY subjective!) has anything to do with brake performance?? If you have seen an F1 caliper, it looks like super model with an anorexic problem (6'2 and 25lbs soaking wet). But due to caliper design, the clamping load and ability to resist deflection is leaps and bounds above anything you can source for less than $10,000 a caliper.....

Source: I personally run Wilwoods (both narrow and wide FSL 4 piston calipers) on both my track vehicles with nary an issue and significantly lower consumable costs.

[Sleepy_Steve]

Def's kit is for a 12.2" rotor. I have a feeling 16" will clear by a hair depending on wheel design. RPF1s have some of the worst clearance for calipers I have seen due to the stepped inner lip design. ....

I had 16's on my car with Def's brakes the last few years.

Enki 16x8 +15 wheels cleared without a spacer. They're stepped differently than the 17's.

I had some Z32 TT 16x7.5" wheels of whatever offset those are, and they needed a slip on 5mm or 7mm spacer to clear the calipers.

Here's some pics of the RPF1's:
Sitting on the dyno, you can kinda see the front calipers here. (http://i.imgur.com/H7qUDso.jpg)
Calipers and rotor sitting in an RPF1 before installation. (http://i.imgur.com/QVtyeCy.jpg)
Them Sexy rotor vanes tho. (http://i.imgur.com/opxz59M.jpg)

[RalliartRsX]

Thanks for that post Steve! I wasn't sure of the inner lip design difference between the 17 and 16, but I know for my 11.8" setup on my previous car, it fit with room to spare (16x8 +38).

[Lambo]

i've had wilwood brakes. very solid kits, reasonably priced, it does the job but doesn't look as "cool" compare to other brands. one important factor is wheel clearance, i find that it is much easier to find wheels to clear most of the wilwood models.

[spooled240]

What I've always noticed about the Wilwood calipers was their small size. They're very lightweight which is great, but I wonder how resilient they are against deforming under extremely hard braking and heat soak. From what I understand, the reason why brembo f50 calipers are a lotter bigger in comparison is partly due to how rigid they are in construction. Brembo designed ribs near the mounting ears on evo8/9 and STi calipers for increased strength.
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/thk_photos/DSC00077.jpg

Back of Superlite caliper: No ribs & overall a lot smaller than brembo calipers.
http://www.mummbrothers.com/T2_Stuff/Tech_Info/Tech%20Images/Component%20Images/Caliper%20Mounting.jpg

It's not that I think anyone is going to start tear calipers off spindles and I'm sure the Wilwoods work great, but just for the sake of discussion... crazy things do start happening on the track when you have high speeds, r-compound tires and high mu brake pads. I'm sure Brembo was aware of the increased unsprung weight when they were designing they're reinforced calipers, so they must've thought the increased rigidity and resilience to heat soak would be even more of a benefit than just being lightweight. Sure NASCAR uses them, but they also aren't stopping on a dime every 3-4 seconds. In this case I'd say the lower unsprung weight would be more of an advantage.

[RalliartRsX]

^^^ That is a MUCH MUCH older caliper design than the current Wilwood offering. Take a look at the current offering and try to understand the mechanics, dynamics and physics behind a caliper design.

http://scarbsf1.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/fif1_1.jpg

As I have mentioned before, a F1 caliper is merely a skeleton at best and to the untrained eye, looks at rigid as a wet noodle.

Comparing apples to elephants when you are comparing a 20 year old wildwood design for a 10 year old Brembo design ;)

[Sleepy_Steve]

Sure NASCAR uses them, but they also aren't stopping on a dime every 3-4 seconds.

Maybe for a super speedway, but on a short track 1/2 mile and the like they're on them HARD every 10 seconds or so.

[Koukiii]

lol at this thread. OP just do yourself a favor and get z32 aluminum all around and be done with it. You can get them powercoated/painted whatever color you want.

I was/am extremely happy with my 30mm aluminum z32 calipers I put on the front. My stock 240 brakes literally felt unsafe. When I took them out of the box they were enormous. Couldn't believe how nice a brake setup I could get so cheap. Got front 30mm ALU calipers with drilled rotors and stainless brake line for $250 shipped! Can't beat that.

[ixfxi]

do yourself a favor and get z32 aluminum all around and be done with it.

to be honest, anyone who drives hard should be looking into the cast iron z32 brakes. after having the aluminum ones, i think they're more problematic when being pushed to the limit. other than the extra weight, the cast iron calipers are more durable.

[simmode1]

Ahhh... the temptation to buy some shit you don't need is always so strong around here. Z32 caliper + Z33 Track rotors is an excercise in excess for most of our cars. Shit, it's almost excessive for actual Z32s. A 2 piece rotor + track pad might help even more. If you're maxing that out, you & your car must be nearing godlike proportions or you suck at braking really really bad.

[onehundredoctane]

While we're on the topic of Willwood can someone chime on on whether or not the 4 pot Willwods offer more or less clearance for wheels then the Z32 setup. I track my car regularly (drifitng) and have never had an issue with brakes but I would like to start doing actual track days and I'm sure that the stock setup is going to give me grief over a session. The main issue that I have when it comes to upgrading brakes is that I run eurolines as daily wheels and the face design offers little room for brake clearance. I know that a z32 setup won't clear the works but I was wondering if Def's willwood kit might offer me enough clearance to get by.

I'll be running either A-Tech Monoblocks or RPF1s on track so there are no issues there, but I would really like to keep my daily wheels if at all possible.

Wilwoods and RPF1s on my S14 and PLENTY of clearance for the caliper.

[BossHogg]

I always chuckle when people make silly assumptions.........See below for instance. :naughty:



1) Pads for Wilwoods are cheaper than any other brand name out there
2) Parts and available far exceed anything else out there (NASCAR facilitates this)
3) SS pistons means dust seals are not an issue at increased braking temps (read: trackdays)
4) When since have looks (which, is also VERY subjective!) has anything to do with brake performance?? If you have seen an F1 caliper, it looks like super model with an anorexic problem (6'2 and 25lbs soaking wet). But due to caliper design, the clamping load and ability to resist deflection is leaps and bounds above anything you can source for less than $10,000 a caliper.....

Source: I personally run Wilwoods (both narrow and wide FSL 4 piston calipers) on both my track vehicles with nary an issue and significantly lower consumable costs.

Still makes no difference lol. What you said means nothing. I'd still rather buy a brembo kit than wilwood. I seriously never see them on anything but old muscle cars lol. Oh wow, nascar uses them. Shit, all other brakes suck dick now. Because brembo, ap, and alcon are never used in any kind of racing lol. If i'm buying brakes, I want them to look as good as they perform. Maybe that is why wilwood is so cheap. They look like junk. I'd go for stoptech before wilwood. Hell, i'd just stay stock(meaning z32/r32) with rotors and pads before I go wilwood. Basically what I'm saying is, wilwood will never see my money ever.

[turboshoebox]

Wilwoods and RPF1s on my S14 and PLENTY of clearance for the caliper.

the ultimate default combo due to being cheap

[turboshoebox]

Still makes no difference lol. What you said means nothing. I'd still rather buy a brembo kit than wilwood. I seriously never see them on anything but old muscle cars lol. Oh wow, nascar uses them. Shit, all other brakes suck dick now. Because brembo, ap, and alcon are never used in any kind of racing lol. If i'm buying brakes, I want them to look as good as they perform. Maybe that is why wilwood is so cheap. They look like junk. I'd go for stoptech before wilwood. Hell, i'd just stay stock(meaning z32/r32) with rotors and pads before I go wilwood. Basically what I'm saying is, wilwood will never see my money ever.

I'm with you on this on this one. While I do want a bbk. I can't get over how unballer their calipers look along side with the brand name. Does not echo any type of authority like brembo, Alcon, AP etc.


Blah
http://www.motormavens.com/emAlbum/albums/Antonio%20Alvendia/Events/Formula%20Drift/2011%20Rd%201%20Long%20Beach/_fullsize/IMG_9795-Daijiro-Yoshihara-wheel-Wilwood-brakes-discount-tire-copy.jpg

I think stoptech is a great middle ground though.
http://jdmchicago.com/stoptech/700a.jpg

[Matej]

Brakes are about the least visually-enhancing mod there is. It can only be assumed that your car is already in God-spec mode if the only way left to improve upon its balleur appearance is with big colorful brake calipers.

That being said, my 360mm 6-pot AMG brakes will stay silver, to command as little attention as possible.

[spooled240]

^^^ That is a MUCH MUCH older caliper design than the current Wilwood offering. Take a look at the current offering and try to understand the mechanics, dynamics and physics behind a caliper design.

http://scarbsf1.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/fif1_1.jpg

As I have mentioned before, a F1 caliper is merely a skeleton at best and to the untrained eye, looks at rigid as a wet noodle.

Comparing apples to elephants when you are comparing a 20 year old wildwood design for a 10 year old Brembo design ;)
That wilwood I posted may be old, but the brembo f50s are pretty old as well being that they were designed back in the early 90s.

[turboshoebox]

Brakes are about the least visually-enhancing mod there is. It can only be assumed that your car is already in God-spec mode if the only way left to improve upon its balleur appearance is with big colorful brake calipers.

That being said, my 360mm 6-pot AMG brakes will stay silver, to command as little attention as possible.

Its not just a color that brakes look nice. As you know people who paint their stock single piston brakes red still look like a oem caliper with just some paint on them. It's the whole caliper design alongside with the rotor. Even a Silver AMG 6 pot still looks more serious/highend then a red wilwood setup. For whatever reason their stuff just looks puny. Even stoptech has the proper look to go along side with it's great performance.

http://www.nsxprime.com/photopost/data/936/102_7523_copy.jpg

[nujabe]

Have wilwood 4 piston 2 piece rotor set up on my car and they do the job quite good. In fact I would choose them easily over any of the k sport /z32 brake set ups. Quality on the brakes are amazing and the weight savings are pretty awesome they also lock up pretty good. And they fill my wheel :D

[Koukiii]

to be honest, anyone who drives hard should be looking into the cast iron z32 brakes. after having the aluminum ones, i think they're more problematic when being pushed to the limit. other than the extra weight, the cast iron calipers are more durable.

What problem did you have with yours?

[OBEEWON]

Phlip, can we get a thread lock on aisle 8 please?


I heard Phlip became a young republican and no longer bangs with the hood.

[spooled240]

How large are the pads on the wilwoods? A smaller pad will not affect the stopping distance, but will certainly affect fade resistance and life span of the pads.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[jr_ss]

It sounds like OP has made his mind up. "They aren't baller enough" for his limited budget...

[badbob2121]

I went from a 4 POT Wilwood Front Brake kit to Z32's and I can say without a doubt the Wilwood's were MUCH better in overall performance.

Yes the Z32 setup is a lot cheaper and readily available, but if you have actually owned both, you know which is the better setup.

[RalliartRsX]

It sounds like OP has made his mind up. "They aren't baller enough" for his limited budget...

That pretty much sums it up.........

Just about what is to be expected :2f2f: . Performance was never the focus of this discussion so I recommend the OP go as bling as his budget will allow!

Wilwoods are shit because #theyareonoldvehicles #nobling #nothardparkenuff #JDM4lifeson :kiss:

[ixfxi]

I'd still rather buy a brembo kit than wilwood. I seriously never see them on anything but old muscle cars lol. Oh wow, nascar uses them. Shit, all other brakes suck dick now. Because brembo, ap, and alcon are never used in any kind of racing lol. If i'm buying brakes, I want them to look as good as they perform. Maybe that is why wilwood is so cheap. They look like junk. I'd go for stoptech before wilwood. Hell, i'd just stay stock(meaning z32/r32) with rotors and pads before I go wilwood. Basically what I'm saying is, wilwood will never see my money ever.

very close minded statement. have you ever been to a track before? autox? any racing event? wilwoods are a dime a dozen and are making track times to prove it.

also, its very application specific. for example, the 240 community we have tons of options. but with the miata, the sizes are very limited and wilwood is one of the few manufacturers that make a nice kit. you're attempting to discredit a company based on "i only see them on old muscle cars" - thats very stupid.


What problem did you have with yours?

the alum z32 brakes will squeel like a mother fucker when they get overheated. i'm not talking about the pads, the actual calipers just dont deal with the heat well. there is a reason why they switched to cast iron and i think its because of the durability

[onehundredoctane]

33 year old joins zilvia in August, asks if Wilwoods are any good, people come to provide their opinion/ real world track proven experiences, user shoots down wilwood supporters.


Have I pretty much summed it up?

[Sleepy_Steve]

Have I pretty much summed it up?
I think so.

But the important thing here is that we didn't let the real world dash OP's delusions of bling. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/161760358337?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82)

[e1_griego]

I went to an autox 3 weeks ago and someone actually had those^^ on his FRS.

Woof.

[BossHogg]

very close minded statement. have you ever been to a track before? autox? any racing event? wilwoods are a dime a dozen and are making track times to prove it.

also, its very application specific. for example, the 240 community we have tons of options. but with the miata, the sizes are very limited and wilwood is one of the few manufacturers that make a nice kit. you're attempting to discredit a company based on "i only see them on old muscle cars" - thats very stupid

I can see your point there. But for some reason, I have a hard time believing the miata has limited brake choices. That car has races specifically for miatas and is world wide loved for racing.

What I'm saying is, I'm sure wilwood does a great job at feeling better than stock brake setups. Why the fuck wouldn't it? It wouldn't sell if they were worse than stock lol. If wilwood is so fantastic and way above the competition for 1/4 of the cost.....then why the hell isn't wilwood putting the over priced "inferior" brake companies out of business? You would see wilwood every where. But you don't. Just because you see them at auto-x or whatever also means nothing. Maybe the owners have low income? Maybe that is the best option for them without braking the bank. It's better than stock, but not a down payment on a new car etc. Many variables come to play when talking about money and life choices. Brakes are on of those things that arn't exactly cheap. Especially if you have a nagging wife saying 4k on a brake setup? Yea, many variables. I bet you see a lot of RPF1 at autox also....same thing. Sure, they are a great wheel and very cheap, but they arn't quite a TE37 are they?

I'm just saying, me personally, I am not going save 4-5k from a brembo, alcon, or AP kit and go buy some wilwoods. I will upgrade stock components. I mean you can buy two piece rotors alone that are more than the entire wilwood brake kit. Hell, I should just buy 4-5 wilwood BBK kits that way when my pads wear out, I can just change brake kits all together ensuring I have brand new high quality components, the best money can buy. No.

There is a reason they are cheap and other manufacturers are more expensive. You can't possibly sit there and tell me, wilwood is the best money can buy, yet as cheap as they are. They would be screwing themselves out of money, we all know that isn't going to happen. Brembo and everyone else, wouldn't even make kits then lol. It would be a monopoly. The price difference is to vast. Which is exactly why the op made this thread. Because he is logical and was like "wait a second, why the fuck are these so cheap". It's throws red flags from the get go. When I see wilwood brakes in real life, I cringe. They look like autozone put together a brake kit. Like I said, its my opinion, I sure as hell wont ever buy a set.....unless I get a muscle car. Even then, I'd probably try to retro fit some brembos or something. I'll determine that when the time comes.

There is one thing I have learned with car parts. The cheap ones look like junk. The expensive one's look and act the part. I am sure you can relate to this very well with lighting kits? No?

[Ramonesfreak2010]

https://conceptzperformance.com/Cart/description.php?II=10192

[VROOOM]

I can see your point there. But for some reason, I have a hard time believing the miata has limited brake choices. That car has races specifically for miatas and is world wide loved for racing.

What I'm saying is, I'm sure wilwood does a great job at feeling better than stock brake setups. Why the fuck wouldn't it? It wouldn't sell if they were worse than stock lol. If wilwood is so fantastic and way above the competition for 1/4 of the cost.....then why the hell isn't wilwood putting the over priced "inferior" brake companies out of business? You would see wilwood every where. But you don't. Just because you see them at auto-x or whatever also means nothing. Maybe the owners have low income? Maybe that is the best option for them without braking the bank. It's better than stock, but not a down payment on a new car etc. Many variables come to play when talking about money and life choices.

I'm just saying, me personally, I am not going save 4-5k from a brembo, alcon, or AP kit and go buy some wilwoods. I will upgrade stock components. I mean you can buy two piece rotors alone that are more than the entire wilwood brake kit. Hell, I should just buy 4-5 wilwood BBK kits that way when my pads wear out, I can just change brake kits all together ensuring I have brand new high quality components, the best money can buy. No.

There is a reason they are cheap and other manufacturers are more expensive. You can't possibly sit there and tell me, wilwood is the best money can buy, yet as cheap as they are. They would be screwing themselves out of money, we all know that isn't going to happen. Brembo and everyone else, wouldn't even make kits then lol. It would be a monopoly. The price difference is to vast. Which is exactly why the op made this thread. Because he is logical and was like "wait a second, why the fuck are these so cheap". It's throws red flags from the get go. When I see wilwood brakes in real life, I cringe. They look like autozone put together a brake kit. Like I said, its my opinion, I sure as hell wont ever buy a set.....unless I get a muscle car. Even then, I'd probably try to retro fit some brembos or something. I'll determine that when the time comes.

price doesnt really mean anything. look at the GTR, it performs just as good as cars that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars more.

[ProjectPanda13]

AP Racing vs Wilwood comparison (http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1858360-AP-Racing-CP8350-vs-Wilwood-SL6R-calipers)

That thread has a comparison of an AP Racing caliper vs a Wilwood.

Latez

[ixfxi]

I can see your point there. But for some reason, I have a hard time believing the miata has limited brake choices. That car has races specifically for miatas and is world wide loved for racing.

There is a reason they are cheap and other manufacturers are more expensive. You can't possibly sit there and tell me, wilwood is the best money can buy, yet as cheap as they are.

Since you asked, the Miata is very limited in terms of brake upgrades due to the wheel size. Last I checked, StopTech did not even offer a BBK. For most applications, Brembo is way out of the question due to their price and size of the BBK. Brembos GT kits are very excessive and mainly for cars with 19" wheels. It all comes down to balancing wheel diameter with rotor diameter, combined with tire width requirements. I have been saying this for years, there is no good reason to increase wheel diameter if you can fit the width tire you need with a smaller diameter rim. I run 17" on the S13, I run 16" on the Miata, and I think its pretty silly to run 18+ or larger unless you need it.

The problem I have with your argument is that its based solely on opinion and has no facts. Without being an expert in the matter, the reason that I think Wilwood is able to undercut their competition is because their calipers lack the refinement that other manufacturers have. From what I've seen, their caliper halves use spacers to fit different width rotors. And their calipers do not use dust boot seals. These are just cost cutting methods, but I dont think they reflect poorly on the quality of the product. Because for guys at the track, the track times prove different.

At the local track events here in socal, you see car after car with wilwood setups and they are achieving very good times. I dont own a Wilwood product, but I would buy their 6POT setup for the Miata.

[BossHogg]

I never had an argument lol, I said from the get go it was strictly my opinion. I'm sure they perform well. I'm sure you can achieve a good time. Also, wilwood is american and in california, I can see the abundance of use. Just like I can see why you would see more endless an project mu in japan as compared to here. I'm sure you see a shit ton of alcon in England.

But what you are saying still doesnt get down to the jist of it. You telling me dust seals and spacers cut cost by thousands? I really don't care what examples you bring up, how many auto-x or racers use them at your local track lol. I will never own a wilwood setup, for reasons already mentioned. Other companies would simply fade into the distance if wilwood was as great as everyone is riding them to be. Simply on cost difference. Or other companies wouldn't be so high priced for that same reason. There is no balance....why. The wheel example was perfect. RPF1's are nice strong wheels, light weight, and look "ok". But compared to a TE37, they look like junk. Same shit. Everyone that has TE37s isn't going out to buy RPF1's because they are the same shit but half the price. A wilwood brake kit looks god awful to me. Sure they can stop the car, I don't care, so can brembos or whatever other high priced inferior company that sucks major dong compared to wilwood design and expertise.

I couldn't even imagine 19's on a miata. How dumb.

[BossHogg]

price doesnt really mean anything. look at the GTR, it performs just as good as cars that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars more.

you are comparing way to many things. Brakes are brakes. You have rotor and caliper.

Car design/building is way more in depth. Look at interior quality of GTR to ferrari etc. But you just proved my point also.....how many more of those "more expensive inferior" cars do you see than GTRs? For example, cars and coffee last weekend. Lambos, ferrari's, porsches (all god damn models), maserati's, bentleys etc. I saw so many gt3's I wouldn't even want one now lol. How many r35's? 1. They will all tell you, looks like a piece of junk. It may perform, but they don't care. They want something that looks and performs. Hell even GTR fan boys hate the looks of the r35. But this is a whole different topic, to many variables in deciding what "car" is the best. I'm sure the z06 boys would say its better than a r35.

*I happen to like the r35 myself. Could be better, but I like it overall.

[VROOOM]

GTR's are pretty common where i live. cars and coffee's are hit and miss with cars. one weekend it could be Porsche club day and you see a ton of them. the next weekend could be ferrari day.

also i never said the GTR was the best just that it performs just as well as cars costing more then double what it costs. the point is, what something costs does not dictate its performance.

from your posts it seems image is way too important to you. i saw so many GT3's that i wouldnt want one anymore, wilwood brakes look cheap i would never put them on my car, Wilwoods are old car brakes, etc. you should pay attention to what the olders guys do with their cars, most know what they are doing and have been doing it longer then you have been alive.

[turboshoebox]

Damn some of you mad not everyone thinks a budget minded bbk brand is everyones cuo of tea

[VROOOM]

i dont really see much difference in Wilwood and Brembo brakes to be honest, except for the look. ive installed Wilwood's on a hot rod before and they seemed to be a pretty nice set up. i have had a set of Brembo's on a car(granted they were factory) and they didnt seem any better other then the word Brembo on them.

[turboshoebox]

Lets be real here. Brembos are high end and exotic looking. Invokes thoughts of lambos and ferarris and quality.

Wilwoods calipers are very bland in design and small and looks like something you would get at autozone.

[VROOOM]

have you looked at all the Wilwood calipers? they make something like 20 different designs?

[VROOOM]

http://www.wilwood.com/Images/Caliper/Caliper_Photos-Large/120-13946-lg.jpg
vs
http://www.brembo.com/en/PublishingImages/auto/uso-sportivo/sistemi-frenanti-gt/Brembo_Colors.jpg

i dont see a huge difference

[turboshoebox]

https://www.corsportusa.com/store/catalog/images/Wilwood%20Honda%20Tuning%20offer.jpg


This is the 800 dollor kit everyone uses

[VROOOM]

maybe because the people buying them care about performance more then looking baller.

[VROOOM]

nothing like looking baller in a 20 year old nissan that cost about 3k

[simmode1]

nothing like looking baller in a 20 year old nissan that cost about 3k

I wish I could LIKE this post.

[Croustibat]

I never had an argument lol, I said from the get go it was strictly my opinion[...]

The concept of VALID opinions is they are based on facts. See where i am going ? No one cares about your opinion if it is based on air.

Wilwood brakes are race oriented. The objective is containing weight and (operating) cost. Not bling. And they deliver. You can rebuild them easily, and when you get some, you will at some point.

Brembo are used on a lot of OEM cars, they have a huge industrial force that wilwood does not have. Their market is different.

You do prefer brembos and the like because of the bling effect, and you can't believe people would buy a brake kit because it "just works". And that is fine ! Just don't go calling wilwood hardware junk, because it is not.

[turboshoebox]

nothing like looking baller in a 20 year old nissan that cost about 3k

20 year old nissan so a 1995 s14?

I beg to differ. Cant say this dont look baller
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk256/s14amarc/IMG-20120317-00493.jpg

[turboshoebox]

nothing like looking baller in a 20 year old nissan that cost about 3k

20 year old nissan so a 1995 s14?

I beg to differ. Cant say this dont look baller
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk256/s14amarc/IMG-20120317-00493.jpg

[simmode1]

^^^It's a very nice s14 with pricey wheels. But not what comes to mind when I think 'baller'. When I think 'baller', I'm think late model Porsche or higher. Not a 20yo entry level Nissan.

[RalliartRsX]

Its almost as if BossHogg (and the OP) didn't even read the comparison between the Wilwood and similar AP brake caliper and realize the Wilwood caliper is of similar caliber and design to AP..........

AP Racing CP8350 vs Wilwood SL6R calipers
I purchased a set of AP Racing CP8350 from Essex and thought the comparaison with Wilwood's own SL6R calipers could be of interest. TO start off, Wilwood'S SL6R and SL4R calipers are very good hardware. They have stainless steel pistons, stainless stel heat shields and precisely machined. Basically, AP Racing copied Wilwood's SL6R / SL4R layout, but only with 4 pistons available, and without heatshields. Same pad shapes are used (Wilwood 7420, Hawk HB521 etc). Same mounting specs (152mm between bolt holes) and almost the same offset. Manufacturing is different, as well as some overall dimensions. The AP caliper is slghtly more compact, which should help with wheel fitments. Calipers fit 300x32mm to 332x32mm discs

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/Lee_Vuong/The%20Parts%20Factory/DSCN1331.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/Lee_Vuong/The%20Parts%20Factory/DSCN1332.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/Lee_Vuong/The%20Parts%20Factory/DSCN1333.jpg

But I degress...........Keep dropping coin on that JDMbligntightbadass part yo becuz CREAM!

[turboshoebox]

Nothing baller stock but enough mods it looks so like frizzles car

[spooled240]

^^ those are actually pretty badass. They're radial mount too :P

[RalliartRsX]

^^ those are actually pretty badass. They're radial mount too :P

Yep! As mentioned, Wilwood pretty much makes anything you can dream off. But again, #notJDMtight #doesnothardpark #blingstatushardparkerson

Whoever mentioned they do not make radial mount is ignorant to the fact.........

[VROOOM]

20 year old nissan so a 1995 s14?

I beg to differ. Cant say this dont look baller
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk256/s14amarc/IMG-20120317-00493.jpg

when i think of baller i think of something like this

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=OIP.M53f6f79de044b284bdaf3f5b191f5b98H0&pid=15.1

[burnsauto]

There's a lot of misinformation and lack of information going on here, besides a select few, and you know who you are.

Opinions aside, can we please not compare brake kits by how they look? You might as well compare tires by how they look, and like a tread pattern, has a lot less to do with performance than you'd think. There is so much more to brakes that go well beyond the brand, where their made, and how they look.

What it really boils down to is the materials they use. These materials don't cost a huge amount of money (that excludes carbon-ceramic brakes), they just need to be well designed (I'm talking composition design, not look design).

Like anything in the automotive world, after a certain point, prices will grow exponentially for minimum amount of gains. A perfect example is F1. Teams will spend millions (That's with an "s" at the end for anyone paying attention), prepping for one race, to hopefully shave half a second off a lap time.

Parts go the same way with this. Think of the off the shelf parts you can buy to build an 11 second street car. It's doable within a reasonable budget. Now think of all the custom work and fabrication for a car running in the low 8's. Brakes are no different. Unless you plan on using every bit of the cars brakes, and I mean every single bit, spending huge amounts of money will never be worth it (unless you want a look, then by all means, spend until you fill that hole inside you ;) ).

A company like wildwood will bring the braking capabilities up to the point where most drivers will never reach the limit, either because the car isn't reaching the speeds needed for more, or because the driver isn't capable of driving the car to that limit. For arguments sake, let's give this a number, say 90 percent braking power.

Now you have reached 90 percent braking power, and passed the expectations of the brakes original design, and you need more. NOW is the time to invest in something else, but be prepared to spend exponentially more for a much smaller gain in performance.

So you buy Alcons. You spend far more than the wilwoods, but because it's needed. You've now increased that number from 90, to 92.

Then you move onto carbon ceramic, bringing it up to 94 etc, etc.

Keep in mind these numbers are just to illustrate.

Wilwood are brakes for the masses. They aren't chasing after those fractions of performance gains. They go after a clean, well designed, affordable brake setup that just about anyone could afford and still put food on the table. They have years of research and development behind them, as well as an open ear to feedback from their customers. Are they the best brakes known to man? No. But, you don't need the best brakes, because you're on zilvia. Few people get to call themselves professional drivers, and even fewer get to call themselves good professional drivers. For the rest of us, who love our cars and pushing them within our skill level, there are companies like wildwood who can help us get there.

[turboshoebox]

^^^It's a very nice s14 with pricey wheels. But not what comes to mind when I think 'baller'. When I think 'baller', I'm think late model Porsche or higher. Not a 20yo entry level Nissan.

when i think of baller i think of something like this

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=OIP.M53f6f79de044b284bdaf3f5b191f5b98H0&pid=15.1

does a 15 year old nissan scream baller to you or no nissan screams baller regardless of mods?

http://image.superstreetonline.com/f/154658918+w+h+q80+re0+cr1+ar0/sutton-bros-nissan-s15-silvia-voltex-rear-wing

http://image.superstreetonline.com/f/154658732+w+h+q80+re0+cr1+ar0+st0/sutton-bros-nissan-s15-silvia-front-bumper

http://image.superstreetonline.com/f/154658933+w+h+q80+re0+cr1+ar0+st0/sutton-bros-nissan-s15-silvia-volk-racing-re30-wheels

http://image.superstreetonline.com/f/154658930+w+h+q80+re0+cr1+ar0+st0/sutton-bros-nissan-s15-silvia-custom-aero

http://image.superstreetonline.com/f/154659089+w+h+q80+re0+cr1+ar0+st0/sutton-bros-nissan-s15-silvia-custom-aero.jpg

[ixfxi]

I'm sure they perform well. I'm sure you can achieve a good time.

The wheel example was perfect. RPF1's are nice strong wheels, light weight, and look "ok". But compared to a TE37, they look like junk. Same shit. Everyone that has TE37s isn't going out to buy RPF1's because they are the same shit but half the price.

from your posts it seems image is way too important to you.

^ well said

the funny thing about this thread, is that i am really surprised that someone is going to complain about a product being too affordable. I know people complain about things being too expensive, but never the opposite.

i really just dont understand you, but vrooom seemed to hit the nail on the head - you're an image person. i get it... you're the male version of a girl who is into louis vuitton handbags.

here is the thing, i appreciate all products, expensive or inexpensive, as long as they are well designed. i currently own brembo brakes as well as stoptech brakes. i also own TE37 wheels as well as RPF1 wheels. maybe this is why i just didnt understand what you were talking about, because I am the guy who really likes to put things to the test, as opposed to you, who if I understand you right, buy a product based on looks and how it makes you feel.

one thing i find really saddening is how materialistic people are. all this talk about "baller cars" this and that, it really doesnt matter, does it? we spend years acquiring parts, attempting to build these fancy cars. they sit in a garage rotting away on jackstands. and majority of the time, most of us drive around a beater car while the "parts queen" is being built.

its a fucking car, drive it and enjoy it. press a fucking brake pedal, if the car stops and stops well, thats all i care about. its not like my brakes give me head and jerk me off at night.

[nujabe]

This ^ I couldn't agree more. You guys are so stuck on brand and there is nothing wrong with owning nice things and wanting the best. But when most of you will never push the car to the point of no return what's the point on endless/project mu brakes. I have wilwoods and they are over kill for my 300 Hp car :/.

[turboshoebox]

Wanting the best of the best there is nothign wrong with that. Owning a lambo a ferarri makes it no less of a car even if all it goes to is fresh and easy

[bataangpinoy]

In conclusion: for the money, not really worth it unless you care about weight. Q45 brakes are the best bang for the buck with z31 rear caliper brackets / altima rotors.

I threw the z31 caliper brackets in the parts bin along with the altima rotors.

Trick question:

How does up-sizing the rear rotor help braking performance when your pad's surface area stays the same?


It doesn't. Praise science.

[spooled240]

its not like my brakes give me head and jerk me off at night.

Sounds like you just never had a set of really awesome brakes.

[JM216S14]

I love this discussion.. I just hope op doesn't buy any brakes with two piece rotors, I don't think he will ever figure it out if he does...

[Sleepy_Steve]

I'm so glad this thread finally blew up!

That was some good work guys!

[jr_ss]

I threw the z31 caliper brackets in the parts bin along with the altima rotors.

Trick question:

How does up-sizing the rear rotor help braking performance when your pad's surface area stays the same?


It doesn't. Praise science.

Actually, it gives you more brake leverage and torque, therefore increasing braking ability. Not to mention a larger heat sink to help dissipate heat.

[future]

^^^^ beat me to it


Science

[Sleepy_Steve]

Actually, it gives you more brake leverage and torque, therefore increasing braking ability. Not to mention a larger heat sink to help dissipate heat.

It's also more stable in rotor temp because there's more mass there. So you don't have drastically different pad friction levels after they cool down too much going down a long straight.

[Koukiii]

http://www.wilwood.com/Images/Caliper/Caliper_Photos-Large/120-13946-lg.jpg
vs
http://www.brembo.com/en/PublishingImages/auto/uso-sportivo/sistemi-frenanti-gt/Brembo_Colors.jpg

i dont see a huge difference

Those Brembo's make my mouth water, the Wilwoods give me cotton mouth...

[turboshoebox]

Those Brembo's make my mouth water, the Wilwoods give me cotton mouth...

willwood is all business no baller

[fatduece]

wilwoods dont look good, but for the price they work really well.

[codyace]

The best part about being a track guy, is my calipers are usually so dusted I forget what name is even on them. Brake dust ftw. Ain't gonna win instagram, but will keep you up front at the TT

[codyace]

one thing i find really saddening is how materialistic people are. all this talk about "baller cars" this and that, it really doesnt matter, does it? we spend years acquiring parts, attempting to build these fancy cars. they sit in a garage rotting away on jackstands. and majority of the time, most of us drive around a beater car while the "parts queen" is being built.




This goes hand in hand with the 'well my car needs all these upgrades before it can goto the track' excuse

[10psitx]

Being a firm advocate of function over, owning both the willwood and z32 setups (both setups are front and rear). I feel this discussion has more of a decorative feel to it, its clear the OP has no clue of what brakes are supposed to do for a vehicle nor has any experience with the willwoods.

I get that you are comparing the willwoods to other brake "brands" but your criteria for doing so is based on the "look" rather than the "function" disguised as a price point discussion

This leads back to the inexperience part...a Sensible, logical person interested in function will identify the basic function properties of the given component and compare that function to others in the same category. Given that the function is within a percentage of each comparable, you move on to the next item for comparison, Price...this is where most sensible, logical people make a decision....best bang for buck wins and the part/s are bought....usually this will happen in a sensible, experienced, logical person's brain, so the need to start a discussing is not necessary. (i do however, get the need to start a thread to get the information)

On the off chance that a discussion is started the topic should follow the same trend. Given that topic is "are wilwoods and good given a BBK budget" the short answer is yes they are more than worth the price given the function, (evidenced as provided by prior posts)

The Discussion becomes derailed when it turns to -why does it "look" cheaper that the other brake kits if it does the same job....the topic of discussion was not asking that...it asked is the willwood brake are worth it....again.... a resounding YES. (best bang for buck = worth it)

However IF the question asked was "are the LOOK of willwoods any good on a BBK budget" then the response would/should be NO....there are better looking kit available but more expensive...and marginally better.

[TheRealSy90]

Idk why that white TA S15 got so popular out of nowhere when the Scorch S15 is faster, and built by one guy in his garage for the most part.


On Topic; the funny thing is when a good driver on a "small brake" or oem bolt on setup with a good pad/rotor/tire combo could out-brake the average 240sx owner with their BBK's no matter how much they cost. But it is what it is.

[Matej]

Anyone who uses the word 'baller' in a non-sarcastic context is a toolbox. Go back to the 90s with your embarrassing slang and Nismo oil caps.

[bataangpinoy]

Actually, it gives you more brake leverage and torque, therefore increasing braking ability. Not to mention a larger heat sink to help dissipate heat.

^^^^ beat me to it


Science
It's also more stable in rotor temp because there's more mass there. So you don't have drastically different pad friction levels after they cool down too much going down a long straight.


A) Heat sink I can let slide, but only to an extent.

Yes the rotor is larger. If you get the rotors/pads hot enough, you still run into the same problem as before; the "gas/dust cloud" from the pads have no where to go.

You still need slots or holes to properly dissipate that heat and gas. Ideally you'd have rotors with cooling vanes in them, but thats not really an option for these cars.

Turbo II FC's have vane'd rear rotors out of the factory, and drilled or slotted options further help cool and evacuate the gas.

For the on-lookers, if you don't know what I'm talking about then idk where to even start explaining.



B) If you want to argue about lock up with the hand brake, care to elaborate?

1) You are using the same caliper & the same size pads, so the contact surface area is the same irrespective to the size the rotor.

2) The cables are the same length. If you move the caliper location, you will have to adjust the cable to make up the distance you moved the caliper such that there is no excess slack or that the calipers don't drag. So any "leverage" you added is now negated.

C) As far as the foot brake is concerned;

How did you magically add leverage and torque to a hydraulic system without changing the length of the lever (brake pedal) piston diameter of the caliper or the BMC?

I guess the larger rear rotor really helped your footbrake work better.


The issue really is that most people don't bother refreshing their calipers and brackets. A rear z31 bracket with free-moving slide pins will feel better than stock rear brackets with seized ones. That is the difference most people notice.


Before you get into a hissy fit talking bout "you probably never even seen that before" :


I had that rear setup on my coupe. P/O put it on the car.
The sliders on the caliper brackets were sticky and the rotors were only really worn in the area where the pad met. Also, the pads did not make full contact with the rotor. There was a ridge at the top 3mm of the pad where they tapered to full height still. Yes. The pad went OVER THE ROTOR. Junk. Literally put in the scrap bin.

If the system is not utilizing the full surface area of the pad and rotor (or close to it), then the braking system is inefficient. In this case the rotor was bigger but using less of the stock size pad (reduction of mechanical advantage) and now it has more rotational mass to stop (addition of force). Yuck.


I went back to stock brackets with new slider pins, rebuilt stock calipers with gk-tech levers, Hawk HP+ Pads, and Circuit sports drilled and slotted rotors.

Works very well.


Science. Use your noggins people.

[Matej]

irregardless
http://41.media.tumblr.com/c7dd24bb0746f0798415f978baf2ff96/tumblr_n8xtyq4F8a1tdt0pno1_500.png

[bataangpinoy]

http://41.media.tumblr.com/c7dd24bb0746f0798415f978baf2ff96/tumblr_n8xtyq4F8a1tdt0pno1_500.png

*Irrespective. Caught me.

[spooled240]

A) Heat sink I can let slide, but only to an extent.

Yes the rotor is larger. If you get the rotors/pads hot enough, you still run into the same problem as before; the "gas/dust cloud" from the pads have no where to go.

You still need slots or holes to properly dissipate that heat and gas. Ideally you'd have rotors with cooling vanes in them, but thats not really an option for these cars.

Turbo II FC's have vane'd rear rotors out of the factory, and drilled or slotted options further help cool and evacuate the gas.

For the on-lookers, if you don't know what I'm talking about then idk where to even start explaining.



B) If you want to argue about lock up with the hand brake, care to elaborate?

1) You are using the same caliper & the same size pads, so the contact surface area is the same irrespective to the size the rotor.

2) The cables are the same length. If you move the caliper location, you will have to adjust the cable to make up the distance you moved the caliper such that there is no excess slack or that the calipers don't drag. So any "leverage" you added is now negated.

C) As far as the foot brake is concerned;

How did you magically add leverage and torque to a hydraulic system without changing the length of the lever (brake pedal) piston diameter of the caliper or the BMC?

I guess the larger rear rotor really helped your footbrake work better.


The issue really is that most people don't bother refreshing their calipers and brackets. A rear z31 bracket with free-moving slide pins will feel better than stock rear brackets with seized ones. That is the difference most people notice.


Before you get into a hissy fit talking bout "you probably never even seen that before" :


I had that rear setup on my coupe. P/O put it on the car.
The sliders on the caliper brackets were sticky and the rotors were only really worn in the area where the pad met. Also, the pads did not make full contact with the rotor. There was a ridge at the top 3mm of the pad where they tapered to full height still. Yes. The pad went OVER THE ROTOR. Junk. Literally put in the scrap bin.

If the system is not utilizing the full surface area of the pad and rotor (or close to it), then the braking system is inefficient. In this case the rotor was bigger but using less of the stock size pad (reduction of mechanical advantage) and now it has more rotational mass to stop (addition of force). Yuck.


I went back to stock brackets with new slider pins, rebuilt stock calipers with gk-tech levers, Hawk HP+ Pads, and Circuit sports drilled and slotted rotors.

Works very well.


Science. Use your noggins people.

Your science is all fucked up lol

A larger rotor increases the moment of the frictional force the caliper exerts on the rotor. An example of this would be the giant steering wheels in older cars with no power steering. This made it easier for drivers to turn the wheel with the added leverage.

Also, friction is independent of the surface area. This means that even if part of your pad wasn't contacting the rotor, there was still the same amount of friction given the same amount of force applied from the caliper. Even wilwood states that their smaller wilwood pads do not mean longer stopping distances. More surface area = less force per sq. in. Less surface area = more force/ sq. in. Granted the pads may not last as long, but just speaking in terms of friction-there's no difference.

I had the z31 bracket/altima rotor mod and I definitely felt a difference in the ebrake engagement. I don't remember the pads have very much overhang either, maybe 2mm?

[bataangpinoy]

Your science is all fucked up lol

A larger rotor increases the moment of the frictional force the caliper exerts on the rotor. An example of this would be the giant steering wheels in older cars with no power steering. This made it easier for drivers to turn the wheel with the added leverage.


I agree with you man, it was the wording of the post I quoted that ticked me off.

You are correct about the moment of force with a larger rotor. However, it does not magically increase the output of force produced by the hydraulic system (which is what I'm talking about), merely adds a mechanical advantage.

He said it increase torque. It does not.

Also, friction is independent of the surface area. This means that even if part of your pad wasn't contacting the rotor, there was still the same amount of friction given the same amount of force applied from the caliper. Even wilwood states that their smaller wilwood pads do not mean longer stopping distances. More surface area = less force per sq. in. Less surface area = more force/ sq. in. Granted the pads may not last as long, but just speaking in terms of friction-there's no difference.


The bit about smaller pads also takes into account the amount of force the calipers are able to generate. A 6 piston caliper with smaller pads will have more clamping force than a 2 piston floating caliper with comparatively larger pads.

The 6 piston calipers will also apply that torque more evenly and effectively than the 2 piston floating caliper (q45 front brakes are like this), maximizing the contact patch of the smaller pads.


The example you gave:

"More surface area = less force per sq. in & less surface area = more force/ sq. in"

Explains perfectly what I've been trying to say. Lets assume rotor size, friction co-efficient of the pad, hydraulic piston size, maximum clamping force output are the same.

If you have more pad surface area on a rotor, the system (caliper, BMC) will be able to stop the rotor from turning with less clamping output therefore requiring less input.

If you use that same caliper with a reduced surface area for the clamping force to be exerted on (i.e. reduced pad surface), you will need to increase the input as the system will need more output to stop the rotor from spinning.

Lets look at two independent scenarios;

1) Having the pad overhang by 3mm will require additional input to exert the necessary clamping force to stop the rotor.
2) You increase the rotor diameter. Less force is required to stop it from rotating due to the mechanical advantage of the "longer" lever.

Combine the two.

You negated any benefit you might have had from increasing the diameter of the rotor. You now also added extra rotational mass.



I had the z31 bracket/altima rotor mod and I definitely felt a difference in the ebrake engagement. I don't remember the pads have very much overhang either, maybe 2mm?



While you might have noticed an improvement, that could be from having fresh pads, rotors, and freely-moving caliper guide pins. The stock handbrake very well if it is freshened up a bit.

[spooled240]

1) Having the pad overhang by 3mm will require additional input to exert the necessary clamping force to stop the rotor.
2) You increase the rotor diameter. Less force is required to stop it from rotating due to the mechanical advantage of the "longer" lever.

Combine the two.

You negated any benefit you might have had from increasing the diameter of the rotor. You now also added extra rotational mass.

1) This won't require more force from the caliper. Having the pad overhang will effectively make the surface area of the brake pad smaller which in turn increases the force/sq.in. This would effectively increase the clamping force of this smaller contact area on the rotor, even with the same force applied from the hydraulic system.

Most of the benefit with this mod comes from the .75" increase of the "lever". Being only slightly thicker, weight shouldnt be much of an issue, just get lighter wheels lol