Volkswagen TDI thoughts?

[Sills]

Wondering what everyone thinks about the big TDI deal... I live in Canada so we dont have emmisions testing for the most part so we arent really effected here. Kinda curious what happens in the states where these cars will no longer be able to pass emissions testing. Is Vw buying them back or are you stuck with a worthless obsolete car?

If their crashing I might have to make a states trip and get one for winter so I can store my s14 asap ha.

[future]

I'm trying to get my friend to get one cause they are so cheap. I'm even trying to buy some VW stocks but the fees are high for a different country

[Sills]

I'm trying to get my friend to get one cause they are so cheap. I'm even trying to buy some VW stocks but the fees are high for a different country

Are they cheap?? Vw isnt taking them back?
Does that mean the cars are obsolete in the US?

I really need a winter car lol

[future]

Last I heard in the news was VW had to fix them

[nismo racer]

I work at VW and as far as a being obselete they are not. There will be a fix for them, they haven't told us anything yet. We think an update we have been doing for the last year might be the first part of the solution. They are good cars, I just think the media has blown it out of proportion which freaked out people.

They are solid engines, super easy to work on and diagnose in my opinion.

[future]

And amazing MPG


Replacement parts are just more insane then a Nissan dealer

[Bushido]

I work at VW and as far as a being obselete they are not. There will be a fix for them, they haven't told us anything yet. We think an update we have been doing for the last year might be the first part of the solution. They are good cars, I just think the media has blown it out of proportion which freaked out people.

They are solid engines, super easy to work on and diagnose in my opinion.

LOL, the CR TDI's are not easy to work on. You need a VCDS to do anything. DSG transmission is expensive to service and doesnt even have adrain plug. These cars seem like they were designed to be serviced at the dealership, not by the owners.

[nismo racer]

LOL, the CR TDI's are not easy to work on. You need a VCDS to do anything. DSG transmission is expensive to service and doesnt even have adrain plug. These cars seem like they were designed to be serviced at the dealership, not by the owners.


They are simple solid engines. The dsg trans do have a drain plug and the service is easy as hell to do.... It's done in like 15 mins.... Idk what common rail you've worked on but I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.... I know a lot of friends who own them and they do most of the stuff/services at home themselves. Don't even have to lift it up to do the oil change....

[jr_ss]

LOL, the CR TDI's are not easy to work on. You need a VCDS to do anything. DSG transmission is expensive to service and doesnt even have adrain plug. These cars seem like they were designed to be serviced at the dealership, not by the owners.

That's the trend and true of all new vehicles. The simple days of home garage/weekend mechanics is out the door. The only thing you can do is change the oil, spark plugs and basic maitenence items anymore. And even when you change the oil, you need a special tool to reset the oil change light for the most part.

[nismo racer]

That's the trend and true of all new vehicles. The simple days of home garage/weekend mechanics is out the door. The only thing you can do is change the oil, spark plugs and basic maitenence items anymore. And even when you change the oil, you need a special tool to reset the oil change light for the most part.

Lol I don't know where all of you are getting your info?! Hahaha special tools to Reset the light bahahaha

In all my years as VW tech I've never had to use the scan tool to reset the light on a VW.

[simmode1]

School me on TDI guys. What is it? I know nothing about Volksawagen, but I am in the market for a cash car for the wife... What should I know? Why should I consider one of these for her over a Prius? (she's a tree hugger).

[Sills]

Never doubted the Turbo diesel engines. In Canada it wouldnt even matter how much smog they produce. Ive always liked them and I agree, they are really good engines. Never have worked on them so I cant say how hard it would be.. However I am starting as an apprentice mechanic at a garage next week and will probably end up finding out in the near future.

My new boss is a journeyman and he drives one, so they cant be too bad of a car!

[nismo racer]

They a good car. I'd drive one if I drove enough. Look out to make sure they have had their dsg service if over 40k. It's suppose to be done every 40k. The t belt is every 120k, which are easy as hell to do at home. You can not mess up timing even if you wanted to mess up.

The only problem is using cheap diesel on these. The high pressure pump is super sensitive to watered down diesel used here. They will take a dump... But for the most part VW is covering the repairs at no cost to the customer. (For now at least)

The only suggestion is if you do get one, you have to drive it long times often for the particulate filter to regenerate which means the soot needs to burn off. It's not a a city commuter car. The particulate filter will clog and the Filter alone is 1500 bucks.

[TougeSR20Kid]

And amazing MPG

They get the good gas mileage because of the other map they are running, you know, the one that causes it to be a gross polluter. From what I gather that's the whole reason they did it because they can pass emissions with this one map and then they switch to this whole other one that has more power and gets better fuel economy when not in "test mode". Incidentally the down side of this more power and better fuel economy is the NOx goes sky high

[NISR20MO]

Nismo Racer has good points.

To address the DSG comments, there is a drain plug, I pass out crush washers all the time. Simply drain the fluid, catch and measure, refill with the same amount through the filter passage (tiny tip funnel), voila done. Also I have only ever ordered 3, maybe 4 DSG transmissions to replace due to failure in 4 years at VW. The trans is very common and offered in a lot of VW's both diesel and gas powered. I have no question about it's durability. One of the best transmissions available in a car under 50k.

I work at a VW dealership in the parts department myself. I really think they are sticking it to VW hard on this TDI deal and it is downright shameful how our government operates.

Just for fun lets mention that just this year VW overtook Toyota as the largest auto manufacturer worldwide. GM (government motors) is trying to sweep their scandal under the rug, and they settled for a paltry 900mil knowing full well they killed people. Takata has airbags out there maiming instead of saving people.

This next part is maybe just my opinion but read on if you please. There is no 'defeat device', it's just a favorable portion of the tune. All the VW cars in question pass the standardized EPA emissions test under the known conditions that the cars are tested under. The fact that the EPA is fining them based on testing performed in entirely different conditions applied to, literally no one else, is a joke. I guarantee you every manufacture of every car out there has 'sweet spots' in their tune for favorable emissions test results. Do you think a BMW 335d actually passes these tests? Think about it, similar performance per displacement, identical emissions equipment. I might also mention that you cannot 'bypass' the in-line filtration and catalyzing emissions equipment, there is no bypass that the factory has built-in. Everyone is cheating because there is no reason that we should not be allowed to buy a compact car that returns 50mpg on a readily available fuel sold at almost every gas station. But we should be allowed to buy any manner of over the ground cargo transportation vehicles and large passenger trucks.

Also, the eurodiesels return 80mpg by forgoing the emissions equipment, when does the trade off for consumption versus emissions factor in???

The only manufacturer not cheating is Mazda, who have not yet been able to make their relatively leading edge skyactiv diesel platforms pass our ridiculous emissions performance standards.

[NISR20MO]

School me on TDI guys. What is it? I know nothing about Volksawagen, but I am in the market for a cash car for the wife... What should I know? Why should I consider one of these for her over a Prius? (she's a tree hugger).

Toyota, last I checked, was the only company STILL using NiCad batteries in their hybrids. Remember in 1995 when your RC car battery had to charge overnight and only lasted a full 15 minutes the very first time you used it. Yeah? Same batteries in a prius, not cool. Not to mention those batteries already account for more solid waste/emissions than a TDI might shoot out of it's tailpipe over it's lifetime maybe?

Like Nismo Racer said, the high pressure pumps on the common rail will shit if you get crummy diesel at a discount store. When it goes you can count on an expensive repair if you have to come out of pocket. Fuel prices are low right now so it is probably more feasible to just get an economical gasoline powered car currently.

If you can keep up with the TDI maintenance though, keep in mind there is more of it more often, then you get a pretty damn nice car to drive around with excellent MPG return. DSG's are awesome for both the wife who can pedal an automatic and yourself. They have tons of torque to scoot around town at the front of the pack, bang out quick gear changes on their own (DSG), and they actually ride and handle really well for a stock car.

[NISR20MO]

They get the good gas mileage because of the other map they are running, you know, the one that causes it to be a gross polluter. From what I gather that's the whole reason they did it because they can pass emissions with this one map and then they switch to this whole other one that has more power and gets better fuel economy when not in "test mode". Incidentally the down side of this more power and better fuel economy is the NOx goes sky high

Of the monitored and known NOx pollution that occurs each year in the US the VW TDI's specifically in question contribute ~.02% of the total pollution yearly. Wow, much doge, so much gross.

[vanish1]

the major issue isnt the diesel emissions themselves its the fact that car manufacturers plain lie to government agencies to get their car on the road for cheaper than what the R&D and manufacturing would have cost for said fix.

maybe if the US gave the EPA the proper funding it needs to conduct the tests themselves and not allow the car manufacturers to take a at home-test with its emissions then this would not be an issue.

if yall think this isnt a big deal then the CEO of VW would not have quit shortly after it became public, this is along the same lines in terms of cover ups as the GM ignition scandal except this one includes multiple car companies.

[NISR20MO]

the major issue isnt the diesel emissions themselves its the fact that car manufacturers plain lie to government agencies to get their car on the road for cheaper than what the R&D and manufacturing would have cost for said fix.

maybe if the US gave the EPA the proper funding it needs to conduct the tests themselves and not allow the car manufacturers to take a at home-test with its emissions then this would not be an issue.

if yall think this isnt a big deal then the CEO of VW would not have quit shortly after it became public, this is along the same lines in terms of cover ups as the GM ignition scandal except this one includes multiple car companies.

Except nobody died, and GM is multiple car companies.

:picardfp:

VW has put up close to 700% of what GM settled for. The settlement is ridiculously over-inflated especially if there is still the chance of class-action lawsuits from owners. So is the misinformation spread by the news and the coverage this is getting.

The CEO quit and was compensated by VW, it is ultimately a face-saving façade, it makes no real difference.

No one lied, they admitted to it immediately when called out. They engineered a work around by implementing a tailored tune that functions optimally under the standardized testing procedure. I don't know why more 'tuner' type people can't see this. Racing is the same way, plenty of races have been won by advantages that have not been legislated yet. If they apply this new "road" testing of vehicles by the EPA to EVERY manufacturer to determine the actual real-world emissions values the fallout will be widespread.

The problem with adding all this emissions equipment is that the car goes from 80mpg untouched to 40mpg. It now uses twice the fuel to go the same distance. What does the difference in doubling fuel production and producing extra emissions equipment to equip vehicles with make in total emissions output for the vehicle now? Cause guess what, it all adds up. Keep in mind there are plenty of large diesel trucks around. The restrictions placed on smaller diesel cars choke any chance of them being a viable option here in America for no real reason.

[simmode1]

Toyota, last I checked, was the only company STILL using NiCad batteries in their hybrids. Remember in 1995 when your RC car battery had to charge overnight and only lasted a full 15 minutes the very first time you used it. Yeah? Same batteries in a prius, not cool. Not to mention those batteries already account for more solid waste/emissions than a TDI might shoot out of it's tailpipe over it's lifetime maybe?

Like Nismo Racer said, the high pressure pumps on the common rail will shit if you get crummy diesel at a discount store. When it goes you can count on an expensive repair if you have to come out of pocket. Fuel prices are low right now so it is probably more feasible to just get an economical gasoline powered car currently.

If you can keep up with the TDI maintenance though, keep in mind there is more of it more often, then you get a pretty damn nice car to drive around with excellent MPG return. DSG's are awesome for both the wife who can pedal an automatic and yourself. They have tons of torque to scoot around town at the front of the pack, bang out quick gear changes on their own (DSG), and they actually ride and handle really well for a stock car.

Thanks a lot. Are all their auto transmissions DSG or is that a premium option? As an enthusiast shopping for his wife, which 4 door TDI models would you recommend I take a look at? I'm talking cash car values here... like between $4.5k to $6k.

[NISR20MO]

Thanks a lot. Are all their auto transmissions DSG or is that a premium option? As an enthusiast shopping for his wife, which 4 door TDI models would you recommend I take a look at? I'm talking cash car values here... like between $4.5k to $6k.

I'm not sure of the market in your region but where I am, that budget is not going to include 09-Current TDI models that are in this emissions fiasco. You are looking at very clean MK4, and clean-ish MK6 cars in that price range.DSG is a premium option available starting in the MK5's I believe. In the 4 cylinder TDI lineup, there is only usually one engine offered across the board in the different models. The engine may change with the generation, but every 4 door VW of the same generation would be nearly identical powertrain wise. I will give you the worst case scenarios short of engine failure that are somewhat typical in the 2 generations.

The MK4's are really solid with the only expensive somewhat common/expected thing I see go bad being injection pumps on manual cars. Auto cars don't seem to kill injection pumps as often but I have seen trans failures on higher mileage TDI automatics.

The MK5 TDI's have pretty weak top end lubrication typically causing the cam and lifters to wear out long before the engine ever would. It is easily remedied but the cam itself is somewhat pricey.

[inuyasha3466]

You're probably going to have a hard time finding a MK4 around here in that price range that isn't well over 200k miles. I tried 3 years ago and nice ones with about 100k miles were 10k less than new TDI's. I ended up with a 2011 Golf TDI 6 speed so I'm effected by the emissions stuff. Could always do turbo back and tune though since we don't have to emissions test and they are already emitting up to 40x what they should be.

[vanish1]

Except nobody died, and GM is multiple car companies.

VW has put up close to 700% of what GM settled for. The settlement is ridiculously over-inflated especially if there is still the chance of class-action lawsuits from owners. So is the misinformation spread by the news and the coverage this is getting.

The CEO quit and was compensated by VW, it is ultimately a face-saving façade, it makes no real difference.

No one lied, they admitted to it immediately when called out. They engineered a work around by implementing a tailored tune that functions optimally under the standardized testing procedure. I don't know why more 'tuner' type people can't see this. Racing is the same way, plenty of races have been won by advantages that have not been legislated yet. If they apply this new "road" testing of vehicles by the EPA to EVERY manufacturer to determine the actual real-world emissions values the fallout will be widespread.

The problem with adding all this emissions equipment is that the car goes from 80mpg untouched to 40mpg. It now uses twice the fuel to go the same distance. What does the difference in doubling fuel production and producing extra emissions equipment to equip vehicles with make in total emissions output for the vehicle now? Cause guess what, it all adds up. Keep in mind there are plenty of large diesel trucks around. The restrictions placed on smaller diesel cars choke any chance of them being a viable option here in America for no real reason.

congratulations on being technically right that GM is multiple car companies

Regardless of the outcome what happened leading up is the same of every one of these corporate blunders so just like GM info was there, it was passed on regardless of the cost, fastforward into the future and the company is eating their own foot.

and yes VW along with BMW MB etc etc whoever else will pop up duped emissions testing and its really no surprise that engines arent where they should be emissions wise

[jr_ss]

Lol I don't know where all of you are getting your info?! Hahaha special tools to Reset the light bahahaha

In all my years as VW tech I've never had to use the scan tool to reset the light on a VW.

Some vehicles you do. I wasn't specifically talking about vw, but newer model vehicles in general.

[NISR20MO]

congratulations on being technically right that GM is multiple car companies

Regardless of the outcome what happened leading up is the same of every one of these corporate blunders so just like GM info was there, it was passed on regardless of the cost, fastforward into the future and the company is eating their own foot.

and yes VW along with BMW MB etc etc whoever else will pop up duped emissions testing and its really no surprise that engines arent where they should be emissions wise

Thank you! (I just finished a super proper and very respectful traditional Japanese bow) Technically, not that it matters, VW knew from the beginning. Seeing as they implemented an intentional work around in the first place. It sucks that they will have to hamper the cars cause I really enjoy the new TDI's. In fact I would buy a VW Tiguan TDI 4motion w/ a DSG trans. (Doesn't exist here but is available elsewhere I'm sure) It would be the ultimate reasonably sized DD in my opinion. And the first thing I would do is emissions delete and a flash lol. I really wonder why VW, who now offers hybrid models, hasn't combined their TDI technology with their hybrid tech. Can you imagine the torque and the MPG possibilities?

For the most part I feel like this is a bunch of pointless BS in the first place. I feel like they are just shaking down VW cause they have gained huge traction in our market recently and they don't want to address real issues in this country.

[simmode1]

I'm not sure of the market in your region but where I am, that budget is not going to include 09-Current TDI models that are in this emissions fiasco. You are looking at very clean MK4, and clean-ish MK6 cars in that price range.DSG is a premium option available starting in the MK5's I believe. In the 4 cylinder TDI lineup, there is only usually one engine offered across the board in the different models. The engine may change with the generation, but every 4 door VW of the same generation would be nearly identical powertrain wise. I will give you the worst case scenarios short of engine failure that are somewhat typical in the 2 generations.

The MK4's are really solid with the only expensive somewhat common/expected thing I see go bad being injection pumps on manual cars. Auto cars don't seem to kill injection pumps as often but I have seen trans failures on higher mileage TDI automatics.

The MK5 TDI's have pretty weak top end lubrication typically causing the cam and lifters to wear out long before the engine ever would. It is easily remedied but the cam itself is somewhat pricey.

Thanks. I looked up MK5 TDI Jetta and realized thats a good looking daily driver. But did I read right? 100hp and 170ft/lbs? Not instantly in love with that when I can get a G35 sedan for about the same price. Any crazy bang for your buck/simple power adders on that TDI? I hear diesel motors are capable of crazy shit... What's common to do on these?

[NISR20MO]

Thanks. I looked up MK5 TDI Jetta and realized thats a good looking daily driver. But did I read right? 100hp and 170ft/lbs? Not instantly in love with that when I can get a G35 sedan for about the same price. Any crazy bang for your buck/simple power adders on that TDI? I hear diesel motors are capable of crazy shit... What's common to do on these?

Like I mentioned earlier, with fuel prices so low I would stick to gasoline powered cars. Especially if that is all you want to spend currently. I too have been looking at G sedans. I haven't driven many of the older TDI's just the new common rail cars so I can't speak about them based on experience. I have not and currently do not own a VW. But I kinda wish I had bought a '15 TDI sportwagen w/ a DSG when I had the chance.

[future]

I keep coming back to this thread and that's for the info guys.

[TougeSR20Kid]

Of the monitored and known NOx pollution that occurs each year in the US the VW TDI's specifically in question contribute ~.02% of the total pollution yearly. Wow, much doge, so much gross.

Not sure what your point is? I'm not saying that they are the sole contributor to NOx, rather that its over the gross polluter limit. But I realize that your issue is with that term, most likely cus you are unfamiliar with it. This strikes me as odd for someone that apparently works in the industry