MS3Pro vs. AEM Infinity vs. Haltech Elite

[PoorMans180SX]

Hello all, I'm contemplating which engine management to run for my current project. We do a lot of tuning here at the shop, but we haven't had a chance to use the latest and greatest yet, and I don't have experience with any of them, although I do have some with AEM V2 and Haltech Sport ECU's. I'm basically looking for experiences with each ECU if you have them, I've already seen all the hearsay online haha.

1. I'm tuning this myself.
2. I don't care about plug and play as I'll be building a new harness.
3. Price differences between the three don't matter.


MS3Pro:

http://www.ms3pro.com/_images/_products/_ms3pro/ms3-pro-photo-1.jpg

Haltech Elite:
http://www.haltech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Elite_2UpA2.png

AEM Infinity 8h:
http://aemelectronics.com/sites/default/files/aem-infinity-6-1.jpg

[fullthrottle]

I just finished up wiring a MS3x into a LS powered Foxbody. Megasquirt sells their hardware based on how many features you want or can use. So the MS1 isnt better than MS3, it just has a few less features. I doubt you need MS3 pro unless you think you are going to use all the features it has. We used MS3x over MS3 because We wanted to run it wit 8 cylinder sequential injection and spark. And The launch control. Megasquirt really is the best in my eyes after working with it.

[PoorMans180SX]

I just finished up wiring a MS3x into a LS powered Foxbody. Megasquirt sells their hardware based on how many features you want or can use. So the MS1 isnt better than MS3, it just has a few less features. I doubt you need MS3 pro unless you think you are going to use all the features it has. We used MS3x over MS3 because We wanted to run it wit 8 cylinder sequential injection and spark. And The launch control. Megasquirt really is the best in my eyes after working with it.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm mainly looking at these ECU's because of the "safety features" they can run. I'll be utilizing as many features of these ECU's as possible. I don't like running a ton of instrumentation in the car, and would like the ECU to be CAN-bus compatible with a Racepak dash or similar if I move to one of those in the future.

[e30gangsta]

ms can practically do everything that the aem can, the biggest difference being the price/software differences. Personally I like aem, the soft/wizard etc is easier to tune for me, and if I ever have a question, an answer from AEM is just a call away. Not too many people in my area are familiar with MS.

[PoorMans180SX]

ms can practically do everything that the aem can, the biggest difference being the price/software differences. Personally I like aem, the soft/wizard etc is easier to tune for me, and if I ever have a question or an answer AEM is just a call away. Not too many people in my area are familiar with MS.

I appreciate the input. Do you have experience with Infinity specifically?

[Blutsvente]

That's sounds very good. But i have no experience with Infinity specifically.






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[2muchboost]

Might want to pick the brains of Undercover Performance in NJ. They have some thorough knowledge of the AEM Infinity.

[jr_ss]

I like the Haltech but I'm biased. I have no experience with the AEM/MS but the newer Haltech's have definitely become more user friendly than in the past. I think all tuning software has a bit of a learning curve.

[Def]

I like the Infinity Tuner software, so I went AEM Infinity 6. It's probably been near 1.5 years now, and I like it. It's only gotten better and more polished with firmware updates.

It's got a very smooth user interface, and the H/W does everything I need it to do. So far it's got around 1200-1400 track miles on it with no issue.


My MS experience from way back was not good due to lack of documentation, so I didn't want to give it another try.

[PoorMans180SX]

I like the Haltech but I'm biased. I have no experience with the AEM/MS but the newer Haltech's have definitely become more user friendly than in the past. I think all tuning software has a bit of a learning curve.

Yeah the Haltech ecu's I've fiddled with have been easy enough. Haltech is really stoked on add-on modules though, which is a little annoying haha. Thanks for the input.

I like the Infinity Tuner software, so I went AEM Infinity 6. It's probably been near 1.5 years now, and I like it. It's only gotten better and more polished with firmware updates.

It's got a very smooth user interface, and the H/W does everything I need it to do. So far it's got around 1200-1400 track miles on it with no issue.


My MS experience from way back was not good due to lack of documentation, so I didn't want to give it another try.

Thanks for the input! Nice to hear a good review of the AEM long-term. For some reason people seem to be really turned off by it. I always take everything with a grain of salt given that a lot of people probably have no idea what they're doing haaha.

[fullthrottle]

Maybe the AEM can do this aswell but with the megasquirt you can use any sensor output or extra wires to setup failsafes. Like if coolant is above 200 degrees you can make it not rev past 3k. Same with Oil pressure or oil temp, even injector duty cycle. Intake air temp goes above a certain number? Cant rev over 3k. And you can set any of these sensors to limit any other part of the ecu. So maybe you want it to cut fuel instead of only rev to 3k. Or maybe cut spark instead? You can even have it cut fuel or spark steadily until its no spark or no fuel instead of an abrupt cut.

[inopsey]

haltech for their customer support. no idea what the others offer for support but haltech was impressive

[e30gangsta]

Of course you can set failsafes with AEM. Literally that's one of the main reasons why I chose the infinity. Built in wideband, and sensors for everything (extra $ for the sensors). You can literally have a sensor for fuel pressure, oil pressure, coolant temp, intake temp, egt, etc. If the engine breaks out of its normal parameters the engine will go into limp mode instantly. That alone saves your engine and lets you know something is up. Of course everything needs to be set up for the fail safes to work. once they are setup pull the datalog and check all the parameters it will tell you what went over its given target. The infinity can do it all though, with a very easy interface.

Ms is cool too just a little cheaper and harder to setup hardware wise. Tunerstudio has gotten a lot better over the years and the forums are great for support.

Poorsman180sx I suggest you contact mike kojima, or post this question on the moto iq forums. They are way more knowledgeable than I when it comes to this stuff.

Motoiq is the shit btw if you don't already read their blog.

Literally, full sequential ignition/spark, e85, meth, etc.

[derass]

My vote is for Haltech. I only have a PS1000 but if their previous products and service are any indication of the new ones, then the Elite should be a good choice.

It seems that they have developed new software for the Elite and I have only seen some screenshots, but it looks quite similar to the previous software, ECU Manager. That being said I find Haltech's software very easy to use. Such that a complete beginner like myself was able to figure everything out quickly. The excellent documentation is to thank for this: it thoroughly explains each feature and how to go about setting it up. Download the new software and see for yourself.

As mentioned above, their suport is excellent. When I had a problem, I used their chat support where they were able to setup a remote connection to my PC and therefore ECU. The rep spent about an hour helping me, I was very impressed.

As for features, Haltech has more than I could ever imagine using. I'm only using Electronic Boost Control and Wideband 02 Control, but there are others i would like to use such as Ethanol Content Mapping, Methanol Injection, Fan Controller, Launch Control and Flat Shifting. This list goes on and on.

It also has a fail-safe mode called Engine Protection that works as described above: it uses senors to detect when something is wrong and will limit the engine however you seen fit. This is where your point about expansion devices is correct. Each ECU has a limited amount of inputs and outputs. So consider how many you would be using (eg. 6 Engine Protection sensors + Wideband Input etc.) . If you need more, that's where the I/O Expander would be used. I'm not too familiar with the CAN Hub and Devices.

I'm seeing that the Elite's now have Knock Control. Another great feature. Also, the Elite 2500 has been increased to 8 ignition outputs vs 6 from the PS2000. I think this is important for a long term investment and resale value, as the ECU can be used with a 4, 6 or 8 cylinder engine.

[PoorMans180SX]

Of course you can set failsafes with AEM. Literally that's one of the main reasons why I chose the infinity. Built in wideband, and sensors for everything (extra $ for the sensors). You can literally have a sensor for fuel pressure, oil pressure, coolant temp, intake temp, egt, etc. If the engine breaks out of its normal parameters the engine will go into limp mode instantly. That alone saves your engine and lets you know something is up. Of course everything needs to be set up for the fail safes to work. once they are setup pull the datalog and check all the parameters it will tell you what went over its given target. The infinity can do it all though, with a very easy interface.

Ms is cool too just a little cheaper and harder to setup hardware wise. Tunerstudio has gotten a lot better over the years and the forums are great for support.

Poorsman180sx I suggest you contact mike kojima, or post this question on the moto iq forums. They are way more knowledgeable than I when it comes to this stuff.

Motoiq is the shit btw if you don't already read their blog.

Literally, full sequential ignition/spark, e85, meth, etc.

Yes, the failsafes are important to me. I've been a long time reader of MotoIQ, so that's good to know, I'll hit him up. Good to hear you like the interface. The built in widebands are definitely convenient.

My vote is for Haltech. I only have a PS1000 but if their previous products and service are any indication of the new ones, then the Elite should be a good choice.

It seems that they have developed new software for the Elite and I have only seen some screenshots, but it looks quite similar to the previous software, ECU Manager. That being said I find Haltech's software very easy to use. Such that a complete beginner like myself was able to figure everything out quickly. The excellent documentation is to thank for this: it thoroughly explains each feature and how to go about setting it up. Download the new software and see for yourself.

As mentioned above, their suport is excellent. When I had a problem, I used their chat support where they were able to setup a remote connection to my PC and therefore ECU. The rep spent about an hour helping me, I was very impressed.

As for features, Haltech has more than I could ever imagine using. I'm only using Electronic Boost Control and Wideband 02 Control, but there are others i would like to use such as Ethanol Content Mapping, Methanol Injection, Fan Controller, Launch Control and Flat Shifting. This list goes on and on.

It also has a fail-safe mode called Engine Protection that works as described above: it uses senors to detect when something is wrong and will limit the engine however you seen fit. This is where your point about expansion devices is correct. Each ECU has a limited amount of inputs and outputs. So consider how many you would be using (eg. 6 Engine Protection sensors + Wideband Input etc.) . If you need more, that's where the I/O Expander would be used. I'm not too familiar with the CAN Hub and Devices.

I'm seeing that the Elite's now have Knock Control. Another great feature. Also, the Elite 2500 has been increased to 8 ignition outputs vs 6 from the PS2000. I think this is important for a long term investment and resale value, as the ECU can be used with a 4, 6 or 8 cylinder engine.

Thanks for the input man. Haltech support is definitely cool, sounds like they went above and beyond for you!

[Praxis]

MS3 pro hands down.

The infinity STILL has quirks and issues, the Ultimate is good, and I don't like what they did with the set-up menu.

The MS3 pro rocks. I asked for time based retard, and boost control. Done. I asked for nitrous boost builder while on the line. DONE. I asked for an auto trans trans brake bump feature. Done.

Support and feature set like no one else.

Oh, and the VE auto tune on the ms3 ACTUALLY works.

I love tuning Haltech. My current dyno actually has bi directional communication over CANbus to Haltech, so can use the vehicles wideband, and plot it on the dyno, or use the dyno wideband and quicktune in Haltech. Or the dyno can hold say 3000 rpm, and I can sweep the timing, and the dyno will plot torque, versus timing. Or, I can hold steady load and rpm, and the dyno will plot injector pw versus phi, and draw me an interception line to find my actual injector dead time. I can overlay 6 runs, and the runs iat, ect, timing and af....

But I had my dyno guy add this feature for megasquirt as well. Can't wait to try it!!

Link is a real solid unit as well. I would choose it over something like a sport1000 Haltech.

[inopsey]

MS3 pro hands down.

The infinity STILL has quirks and issues, the Ultimate is good, and I don't like what they did with the set-up menu.

The MS3 pro rocks. I asked for time based retard, and boost control. Done. I asked for nitrous boost builder while on the line. DONE. I asked for an auto trans trans brake bump feature. Done.

Support and feature set like no one else.

Oh, and the VE auto tune on the ms3 ACTUALLY works.

I love tuning Haltech. My current dyno actually has bi directional communication over CANbus to Haltech, so can use the vehicles wideband, and plot it on the dyno, or use the dyno wideband and quicktune in Haltech. Or the dyno can hold say 3000 rpm, and I can sweep the timing, and the dyno will plot torque, versus timing. Or, I can hold steady load and rpm, and the dyno will plot injector pw versus phi, and draw me an interception line to find my actual injector dead time. I can overlay 6 runs, and the runs iat, ect, timing and af....

But I had my dyno guy add this feature for megasquirt as well. Can't wait to try it!!

Link is a real solid unit as well. I would choose it over something like a sport1000 Haltech.

link has very poor customer support. i bought a brand new g4 plug in unit and it would not communicate with the laptop right out of the box. link tried to trouble shoot it over email but the ecu was sold defective from factory. i sent it back to who i bought it from and got a refund. link would not warranty a brand new ecu; ended up being charged to fix a factory defective unit. stay away from these small time companies.

[Praxis]

link has very poor customer support. i bought a brand new g4 plug in unit and it would not communicate with the laptop right out of the box. link tried to trouble shoot it over email but the ecu was sold defective from factory. i sent it back to who i bought it from and got a refund. link would not warranty a brand new ecu; ended up being charged to fix a factory defective unit. stay away from these small time companies.

Link is not small time. Its a quality unit. Its big, especially down under. Support is tough. But I work a lot of nights, so when North America is closed, phone support in New Zealand is open. There is no way they would not warranty your issue, unless you did something wrong, or bought from an illigitimate dealer.

Thats why I also like Haltech though. Damn nesr 24 hour support. Phone the US guys during the day, or the Aussie guys at night, haha.

[inopsey]

Link is not small time. Its a quality unit. Its big, especially down under. Support is tough. But I work a lot of nights, so when North America is closed, phone support in New Zealand is open. There is no way they would not warranty your issue, unless you did something wrong, or bought from an illigitimate dealer.

Thats why I also like Haltech though. Damn nesr 24 hour support. Phone the US guys during the day, or the Aussie guys at night, haha.

kinda hard to anything wrong when its a plug in unit that dosent work out of the box, wont connect to the laptop even once. bought from a dealer listed on their official website. they tried to blame my setup but i went from a setup that worked flawlessly with a pfc to shit that was broken from the factory. you cant comment on their warrenty if you never had a problem with the unit and had them refuse to warrenty it. they are small time compared to haltech or aem the way they handled my issue confirms this. bought a haltech ps1000 after getting my refund and it started up my car no problem, no problem connecting to my laptop and with the best customer support ive seen in this industry

[PoorMans180SX]

MS3 pro hands down.

The infinity STILL has quirks and issues, the Ultimate is good, and I don't like what they did with the set-up menu.

The MS3 pro rocks. I asked for time based retard, and boost control. Done. I asked for nitrous boost builder while on the line. DONE. I asked for an auto trans trans brake bump feature. Done.

Support and feature set like no one else.

Oh, and the VE auto tune on the ms3 ACTUALLY works.

I love tuning Haltech. My current dyno actually has bi directional communication over CANbus to Haltech, so can use the vehicles wideband, and plot it on the dyno, or use the dyno wideband and quicktune in Haltech. Or the dyno can hold say 3000 rpm, and I can sweep the timing, and the dyno will plot torque, versus timing. Or, I can hold steady load and rpm, and the dyno will plot injector pw versus phi, and draw me an interception line to find my actual injector dead time. I can overlay 6 runs, and the runs iat, ect, timing and af....

But I had my dyno guy add this feature for megasquirt as well. Can't wait to try it!!

Link is a real solid unit as well. I would choose it over something like a sport1000 Haltech.

Thank you sir! This is great info, I'm thinking I'm going to go with MS3. I haven't heard a bad thing about it from anyone that tunes with it!

[Praxis]

It's a Supra, but my dyno supplier(Mainline Dynolog) added the ECU to Dyno communication for the Megasquirt now as well (They support something like 50 ECU's now!). This is the first time it's being tested in the real world on a Megasquirt, I was pretty excited lol.

Here is just a little bit of what it's about, and what you can do with it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3Q1fSKIilM