View Full Version : Input Shaft Transmission Play (video)
As owning a 240 goes once some is fixed on it is good something else goes. This hasn't been a big issue but long story short. I have a massive vibration on decel, thinking its my clutch being a stage 3 six pluck and harmonic balance bs. So anyway I decided to drop my tranny to look if everything like bearing and T.O was fine. Got the tranny out, input bearing is fine, throwout is fine but there is this play in the main input shaft. Nothing really side to side but just forward and backwards. Its not in the video but I took the bell housing off and it looks to be about 4 inches or so that some of the gears lift forward from the rest. Not sure if this is normal but probably not, what can I do about this to get rid of the play? Get a whole new bearing kit and rebuild it myself somehow or should I just find another tranny? The tranny looks perfectly fine, syncos are good, shifts good, and so on. This play might be causing my vibration on decel or its my cluch, sounds like a swarm of bees and vibrates the whole car. Ive already replaced my diveshaft to a one piece, tighten down everything, swap tranny mounts, regressed axels. Im completely lost on this sound, I wish I had a video of it but I dont.
This is a video on the play
https://youtu.be/5lUOU3NgFPc
I'll get another one tomorrow if anyone wants a better video.
cotbu
09-02-2015, 07:34 PM
You go straight to shaft and start jerking and twisting that thing damn... try kissing it first! ;)
Sent from a Highly Tuned Note 4.5!!!
Kingtal0n
09-03-2015, 12:43 PM
Measure the end play and check the FSM for specifications.
As to your decell vibration, it could be the trans OR the driveshaft (length). If you are using a long (too long) driveshaft (such as when you mix up abs and non abs lengths) during decel it might come forward.
Did the noise suddenly start out of no where?
Since you have it off anyways might as well replace the clutch and finish the flywheel nice and clean (or get a new one if your flywheel has been gouged by a horrible and cheap clutch)
Measure the end play and check the FSM for specifications.
As to your decell vibration, it could be the trans OR the driveshaft (length). If you are using a long (too long) driveshaft (such as when you mix up abs and non abs lengths) during decel it might come forward.
Did the noise suddenly start out of no where?
Since you have it off anyways might as well replace the clutch and finish the flywheel nice and clean (or get a new one if your flywheel has been gouged by a horrible and cheap clutch)
The noise was there before I swapped out the driveshaft, I swapped a one piece thinking it was my center bearing. My center bearing looked finish but after a small drive down the road it still made the same noise. I have always had the noise since ive had the car but ive been dealing with so many other things like harness issues and fuel just to get the car started.... So this is the last thing I need to sort out and everything will run smoothly.
I just started school and I dont have a couple hundered to replace the cluch. Need to put money towards a new manifold and downpipe.
The previous owner put in the cluch last year. I havent taken it off to check it but it still looks brand new. Its not really a cheap clutch or flywheel combo either. The noise has always been around, and happens in every gear around 2k-3k rpms when slowing down.
This is what the fsm has on the play but im not sure exactly which section too look at. It cant be the top right one?
http://i.imgur.com/GBHGVAq.png
It is... If I plull the input shaft forward I get like a inch gap between the first gear and synchros
http://i.imgur.com/ogr8Bn0.png?1
I'll take a picture later showing it. So I would need to send the transmission in for a rebuild???
Anyone? Im just about to say fuck it and put it back in. Just paint it up nice, replace seal or two, top it off with some redline and call it a weekend.
Can anyone honestly give a straight up answer?
https://youtu.be/W_V1-kXxBt0 This is with the bell housing off
Kingtal0n
09-05-2015, 12:03 PM
well, did you measure it? Is it within spec? the answer is in your book. I cant very well measure it from watching a video.
If you want my opinion, I would say you need to source another trans. Even if the endplay WAS fine (it does look like too much, but who knows) there are two other truths working against you, the first is, other transmissions are cheap enough ($200 all day in your area), and second, even if the end play were fine, something else inside it could still be responsible for the noise.
racepar1
09-05-2015, 12:20 PM
The geartrain isn't all fastened together inside the trans. Once you pull off the bellhousing OF COURSE things are going to move. The end play you feel on the input shaft (with the bellhousing installed) is pretty normal, you almost certainly wasted your time pulling the trans apart. The noise could also be your diff...
The geartrain isn't all fastened together inside the trans. Once you pull off the bellhousing OF COURSE things are going to move. The end play you feel on the input shaft (with the bellhousing installed) is pretty normal, you almost certainly wasted your time pulling the trans apart. The noise could also be your diff...
I figured this out awhile ago, go someone local to check it out and said the same thing. If youre rebuilding a trans also once you take some stuff in the rear off the input shaft it just slides off. The movement without the case and bell housing is normal like you said since nothing was tightened down.
The noise cant really be differential related, or well suspect it since its not a really whinning noise or clucking its just a really bad giant ERERRRRRGN noise when you go to shift from like 2nd to 3rd and instead of staying around 4k rpms you let your foot of to car slow down itslef and then the noise kicks in.
Only videos that sound sorta like this. Thinking its clutch or flywheel because all videos are related to it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Asv1_WcE93Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBbsrGzFgNU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGEP-BVkH3Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QuME20BrEA
It wasnt a total waste taking it out, replaced a leaking seal I found, cleaned it up nice, and painted it. Was cool to even see the inside of a tranny for the first time.
http://i.imgur.com/fgbGXR3.jpg?1
well, did you measure it? Is it within spec? the answer is in your book. I cant very well measure it from watching a video.
If you want my opinion, I would say you need to source another trans. Even if the endplay WAS fine (it does look like too much, but who knows) there are two other truths working against you, the first is, other transmissions are cheap enough ($200 all day in your area), and second, even if the end play were fine, something else inside it could still be responsible for the noise.
You just never know with cars with things messing up or doing funny things. Im narrowing the sound down to my clutch or its my downpipe hitting my breakbooster. I got the car with shitty turbo placement and ill be getting a new mani and downpipe end of the month. It cant really be that because the noise is herd and felt through the transmission tunnel so im guessing it my stage 3 spec clutch. I'll pick up a rocket bunny sometime soon, and let a shop put it in. Dropping a tranny in your driveway is no funny... It probably going to take me at least two hours to put it back in.
Kingtal0n
09-05-2015, 06:05 PM
You know, something I noticed on every single sr car I ever drove, in fourth gear if you coast above a certain speed (perhaps above 42mph~) I hear a certain sound, much like something rattling inside the transmission. It always seems to go away as soon as you pass below that special speed, and its ONLY in fourth gear.
But again I say, this seems to be every single sr car, every single time. I know you said you also hear it in 2 and 3 gears so I am not correlating these sounds, however I thought it worth mentioning.
For a daily driver, I would say go for the spec stage-1 disc, it will support 350~ even slightly more horsepower, and with the OEM flywheel it has a very nice bite, seems like it will last a long time.
I feel like you need to do the job yourself, because there are some things that a shop will not do correctly. For instance, the inside of your TO bearing's sleeve needs to be picked clean, and then packed properly, with a special type of molybdenum sulfide lubricant, and so this lubrication is also applied many other places as well, to the face of the TO bearing, and to the input shaft. Use of regular off the shelf grease is not sufficient. You can see the grease I used in my thread, made for Honda it contains the necessary ingredients. The careful attention to detail is often not attended when you take your car somewhere.
I too have this noise on decel. Most noticeable Between 2-2.8k rpm in all gears. I narrowed the noise to trans area. Diff and driveshaft isn't at fault here.
Clutch setup is
Act heavy duty Pplate
Act unsprung 6 puck
Stock Flywheel
All with under 15k miles and a definite overkill for my setup (was brand new and free)
I believe the noise is coming from input shaft bearing in the trans. Will be inspecting and refreshing the trans when out. It's possible the release bearing and or pilot bearing is bad but im leaning towards the trans bearing...
Gonna replace the clutch for a more manageable/street/daily driver setup... stage 2 exedy kit or the white bunny setup enjuku sells.
Hope that helped
Update when you figure out what's up with yours.
You know, something I noticed on every single sr car I ever drove, in fourth gear if you coast above a certain speed (perhaps above 42mph~) I hear a certain sound, much like something rattling inside the transmission. It always seems to go away as soon as you pass below that special speed, and its ONLY in fourth gear.
.
Ironically I have a ka-t setup ahah, Funny to assume it was SR. Im all about the ka turbo, maybe in a years time ill rebuild the motor and other stuff but for now running 10psi on corn with a new mani and holest in the next couple months ill be perfect for awhile and have loads of fun.
Youre right on the shop thing, most people dont give a fuck if its not there car. Hopefully by the time I do my engine rebuild i'll have a shop to work at and install a nice white bunny.
I too have this noise on decel. Most noticeable Between 2-2.8k rpm in all gears. I narrowed the noise to trans area. Diff and driveshaft isn't at fault here.
Clutch setup is
Act heavy duty Pplate
Act unsprung 6 puck
Stock Flywheel
All with under 15k miles and a definite overkill for my setup (was brand new and free)
I believe the noise is coming from input shaft bearing in the trans. Will be inspecting and refreshing the trans when out. It's possible the release bearing and or pilot bearing is bad but im leaning towards the trans bearing...
Sounds exactly like my situation, I would doubt it is your input shaft bearing or throwout like I thought in my case but both were solid. T.O bearing would make a noise when you disengaged the clutch, the input bearing would make sorta a whinning as you accelerate. I highly doubt either will make such a vibration It wouldn't be bad to replace those once the tranny was out but for me mine were perfect.
I think for both of us its out clutch, SPEC and ACT are very similar. Mine is also unsprung 6 puck. Im not sure if I have the oem or the lightweight fidanzabut ill hopefully check today.
Another reason why I say this because ive seen also other threads about similar clutches doing the same thing.
http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=63978
http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=574127
http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-128265.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/new-fidanza-and-6-puck-now-having-noise-and-vibration.179513/
This is a very common issue with the lightweight flywheel/ heavy clutch mod. It happened to me too. From talking to, and grilling, both ACT and Fidanza I am convinced it is a balance problem with the clutch. Fidanza recommends ALWAYS balancing the clutch and flywheel together as an assembly. Don't rely on the flywheel and clutch being balanced individually.
Fidanza claims they have seen major imbalance problems with clutches (not just ACT) and ACT claimed theirs are "good". I'd believe Fidanza first because as they've said "How long would we be in business if we sold out of balance flywheels?"
A small clutch imbalance with a stock flywheel probably wouldn't be noticed but it shows on a lightened one. Especially during deceleration. I'd be curious to know if someone who has had theirs balanced has any vibration issues. I plan to get mine balanced next time the tranny is out. Until then I've learned to live with it.
I was talking about this in the beginning about not being harmonically balanced and it seems pretty logical. Stage 3 is a pretty heavy clutch and with a lightweight flywheel there is bound for it to be unbalanced and not be nice and fluffy like the stock clutch/flywheel.
I guess ill deal with the noise for now.... Im topping off my tranny with some redline today and hopefully put it in. Next time I take it for a drive ill record a video to you can hear exactly the noise. I'll most likely replace the clutch by the end of the year. Right now i need to worry about getting a new manifold and downpipe. After all these things are sorted and AC then the real build starts!
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