Push Button Clarification

[calebbo]

1991 S13 Hatchback

This is my ignition switch
http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag174/calebbo/41527CA9-FA8F-4166-9893-693F28ED2BB2_zpsddmcptv5.jpg (http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/calebbo/media/41527CA9-FA8F-4166-9893-693F28ED2BB2_zpsddmcptv5.jpg.html)

Here is the back wires
http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag174/calebbo/DDA6A3D9-502D-41FC-AB68-1D569FF8300F_zpsowyebpv7.jpg (http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/calebbo/media/DDA6A3D9-502D-41FC-AB68-1D569FF8300F_zpsowyebpv7.jpg.html)


Here's what happened:
Dealership broke my key in the ignition.
They can't order a new ignition with key.

How do I wire a push button. I was planning on using rocker switches to turn on accessories. I want it to be just like having a key except minus the key.

Flip switch one
Flip switch two
Press start

The other threads on this topic go back to using a key which I don't have anymore bc that was my only copy.

I know the red and white wire is the 12v direct hot wire. What are the rest and what do I need to hook up to?

Black/ white stripe - starter
Black/ yellow stripe - second starter
White/red stripe - hot
Black/ green stripe - ???
Blue - accessories

[jville]

any auto parts store will sell you a key and ignition switch.

[calebbo]

I would rather have a button then take everything back apart. Is there a specific thread that I missed?

[chrism4505]

| 12V|white |+ |ignition harness
| STARTER|black/white
| SECOND STARTER|black/yellow
| IGNITION|black/red
| ACCESSORY|blue

Both starter wires must be energized during start
These colors should match up to the other side of the plug from ignition switch. Use meter to test

[Ilya]

Press start or press and hold to start?

[calebbo]

Thanks for the help! Ill update the intro for future searchers.

Push and hold to start I assume, since it would act like a key and you have to hold it a tad bit to start.

[calebbo]

Here is what I have so far:

Black/ white stripe - starter
Black/ yellow stripe - second starter
White/red stripe - hot
Black/ green stripe - ???
Blue - accessories

What is Black/ green stripe?

[Ilya]

How would you unlock the steering wheel?

[calebbo]

This is from the FSM. I cant seem to make sense of it right now.

http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag174/calebbo/7C8F5D5B-612D-474D-A6C4-C96ADDB8FCF7_zpsr37hj8fc.jpg (http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/calebbo/media/7C8F5D5B-612D-474D-A6C4-C96ADDB8FCF7_zpsr37hj8fc.jpg.html)

http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag174/calebbo/F257D36D-85E8-4983-8B72-9DCA3AA01942_zpsbeolyjus.jpg (http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/calebbo/media/F257D36D-85E8-4983-8B72-9DCA3AA01942_zpsbeolyjus.jpg.html)

[Fuego]

Simple answer: 12ga from bat/power cable to prefered switch, 12ga+quick disconnect to starter. Recommend a fuse somewhere in between.

That will get the starter to turn. Everything beyond that is up to you.

[Ilya]

Once you get it started, how do you turn it off? those are the things you should be thinking about, not the details yet.

Plus if you cant make sense of that schematic, should you really be doing what you are trying to do?

[calebbo]

How would you unlock the steering wheel?

Well the lock mechanism has been removed so the wheel is permanently unlocked. Thats why I have the ignition switch in my hand in my original post. Its the back part of the cylinder that the key goes into.

[calebbo]

Once you get it started, how do you turn it off? those are the things you should be thinking about, not the details yet.

Plus if you cant make sense of that schematic, should you really be doing what you are trying to do?

Okay Im not completely new to wiring diagrams. But the thing is the switch in my hand has 5 wires. Im looking at the starting section of the electrical section of the FSM and I see nothing that has 5 wires coming from it with the colors that I have. Does that clarify my confusion? If I can see the wires I can see where they draw power from and what activates what. But from what I can tell nothing has

B/W
W/R
B/Y
B/G
BLUE

[Ilya]

What I would do is use a microcontroller, and some transistors to make a one button push start system that would use some state logic such as following:

-if brake pedal not pushed and in OFF state and start button pressed go to ACC On
-if brake pedal not pushed and in ACC ON state and start button pressed go to ON State
-if brake pedal not pushed and in ACC ON state or ON State and start button pressed for 2 seconds go to OFF state
-if brake pedal pushed and in any state go to START state until Alternator Voltage is at X Volts for Y amount of time(aka engine is running) or 3 seconds has passed (aka engine not starting) or some other logic that tells you that the engine is on. Make sure the start button presses are not registered during the starting sequence.

Transistors take the switch debouncing effects out of the equation which could wreak havoc on digital electronics like the ECU.

[Ilya]

There are other sections in the FSM that deal with the ignition switch. Try to find them and post them here, that way we have all the sources in one place when you do figure it out.

[calebbo]

Thats what Im trying to figure out. The key turns on the accessories then the ignition. Then when you turn the key it kills the accessories and starts the car right? Cant I do the same thing with toggle/rocker switches?

[Ilya]

Yes you could. Is this a track car or something that may be parked on the street?

When you go to start your car, yes the accessories get turned off to provide full amps to the starter as well as to prevent any back EMF from frying your Accessories.

[feito]

why dont you just pull the broken key out?

[calebbo]

So I can do this then

Run white/red (12v) to fuse to push button to starter

Run white/red (12v) to toggle switch 1 to black/white (starter) and black/yellow (starter 2)

Run white/red (12v) to toggle switch 2 to blue (accessories)

So when I start the car I can flip toggle switch 1 and push my start button till she cranks. Then I flip toggle switch 2 to turn my accessories on right?


She's a parked car but I'll install some hidden kill switches. Let's not get side tracked right now. I'm trying to figure the basic concept with this switch.

It's stuck in there. The dealership couldn't even get it out. Their lock smith guy couldn't either. I tried wd40 and paper clip with the key as a guide but no go. It's broken into three parts. Tip, main body, end with the circle handle.

[calebbo]

What is black/ green?

[_kris]

Black green is 2nd accessory

Radio and such

[calebbo]

Black green is 2nd accessory

Radio and such

So I can just attach that to BLUE right?

[Croustibat]

Whatever you do, remember the starter motor is not protected and you going to feed it 100+ amps continuous, easily 300 with the initial spike.

Advice: let someone who knows about electrics mess with it, or just get a new key.

[Ilya]

You are never going to see those amps at the ignition switch. So don't you worry.

[calebbo]

I was planning on wiring it up and seeing how many amps it pulls through that line. I have a fluke DVOM. So yes I can just attach black/green to blue right?

[chrism4505]

If you follow the harness from the switch, you will find a plug on the other side of that plug has the colors that I gave you. You can use the all the wires from the switch to make it work. The way the key works is as you turn it to the first position you power up the ignition circuit, second position turns on accessories circuit, third position is the start circuit. When you are in the start position, the switch kills power to the accessories circuit til you release and the switch falls back to the second position. You can wire it to work just as the key with one switch, some relays, and a start button. When you want to turn off just flip off the switch. Give me some time and I can draw up a wiring diagram.

[chrism4505]

This is quick and dirty but you should be able to follow it. There are a few ways to reach your goal. This way you will take a little longer but I think will be cleaner. You will have one toggle switch and a push button. If you Google race car ignition panel you will find several other ways but then you have to find a spot to mount the thing. One thing I do like about then is what seems to be a main shut off key, which can be add to the diagram I provided. Remember to test everything first. I'm just going off memory and what like bit of research from the forums.

[calebbo]

http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag174/calebbo/6ADD34C7-930A-4715-BAE6-3045D702A0A0_zpsmozhkjvd.png (http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/calebbo/media/6ADD34C7-930A-4715-BAE6-3045D702A0A0_zpsmozhkjvd.png.html)

http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag174/calebbo/9F5BD7EE-0CFD-4AE5-A47D-CB59962615D9_zpsr5hokx9r.png (http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/calebbo/media/9F5BD7EE-0CFD-4AE5-A47D-CB59962615D9_zpsr5hokx9r.png.html)

Just ordered 3 relays and a race car start setup lol
Thanks that is EXACTLY what I was looking for.

[calebbo]

If you follow the harness from the switch, you will find a plug on the other side of that plug has the colors that I gave you. You can use the all the wires from the switch to make it work. The way the key works is as you turn it to the first position you power up the ignition circuit, second position turns on accessories circuit, third position is the start circuit. When you are in the start position, the switch kills power to the accessories circuit til you release and the switch falls back to the second position. You can wire it to work just as the key with one switch, some relays, and a start button. When you want to turn off just flip off the switch. Give me some time and I can draw up a wiring diagram.

When you say I can use all the wires from the switch you mean the switch in my hand on my first post right?

As in these wires
http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag174/calebbo/DDA6A3D9-502D-41FC-AB68-1D569FF8300F_zpsowyebpv7.jpg (http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/calebbo/media/DDA6A3D9-502D-41FC-AB68-1D569FF8300F_zpsowyebpv7.jpg.html)

[chrism4505]

Yes, you will use those wires. The relays, when wired to them as the diagram show, will trigger them just like the key. If you follow those wires back under the dash you will find the plug. The wire colors change on the other side. If you take note of the wire colors and pin location. You can unplug the harness and wire it at a bench. Making it a plug and play set up when finished. Again use meter the wires. Here is how the wires will test. The hot wire will of course always have 12 volt, ignition will have power when key turned and remain power through out start cycle. The accessories circuit will power when key is turned but will drop out when starter is activated and power back after car starts. Start wires will only have power during start cycle. You should have two starter wires. Test everything and if the color (that are on other side of plug) don't test as I described. Let me know and I can do some more research.

[chrism4505]

I over looked the starter circuit. If it's wire with first diagram, the starter can engage anytime button is pushed. Here is the diagram with the changes.

[calebbo]

So I have:
2 toggle switches
1 push button


Toggle 1 is the kill switch, which you said is optional in your diagram
Toggle 2 is the accessories and ignition

When I push start it maintains power to ignition but kills the accessories until I let go then my accessories kick back on.

Am I reading that correctly?

[chrism4505]

I was thinking for the optional switch would be a turn switch with a removable key. I will try to find an image

[chrism4505]

This has the switch I'm referring to and I guess can do same as the other panel you ordered.

[chrism4505]

I don't think a toggle switch can handle the current load of the main power. I would not recommend the toggle for the main power. Do some research, but I believe the pictured switch is good for 200 amps. Plus unless you hide the toggle switch somewhere, anyone could hop in and start the car.

[calebbo]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AZI11V4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This is what I bought. That turn switch would be the same as my toggle switch right on my panel from the above link.

The extra toggle switch would be a hidden kill switch. That way if the kill switch is not on no power is going to the racing panel.

[chrism4505]

With the diagram I gave, no power would be going to the panel. I have the switches throwing ground to the relays. The only power you would run to the panel would be a constant power for the lights on the panel. If you want a hidden switch for the main power, I would use a relay for that as well. The toggle switch, by its self, that you ordered might not be able to handle the amperage. I can only guide you as to what I would do. I would either forget about the toggle switch and wire it as in the diagram or go for the main power kill with the key switch. You can find them as a solo unit. I'm leaving with you with that. Good luck with your project

[calebbo]

With the diagram I gave, no power would be going to the panel. I have the switches throwing ground to the relays. The only power you would run to the panel would be a constant power for the lights on the panel. If you want a hidden switch for the main power, I would use a relay for that as well. The toggle switch, by its self, that you ordered might not be able to handle the amperage. I can only guide you as to what I would do. I would either forget about the toggle switch and wire it as in the diagram or go for the main power kill with the key switch. You can find them as a solo unit. I'm leaving with you with that. Good luck with your project

Wouldnt my toggle switch on my panel be the one on your diagram? The one near the bottom that is connected to 85 on the first and second relay (from left to right)

I havent started this yet, Ive been busy with school and military stuff haha

[calebbo]

When you say my toggle switch cant handle the amperage, youre talking about the toggle switch from the 12v constant that you said was optional needs to be able to handle the high amperage right? I was going to wire it in straight as if there was no toggle switch from the 12v constant to relay 1 (86, 87), relay 2 (87), and relay 3 (30). Then after everything was wired up I would go back with a switch of some sort to break the circuit from the 12v. That way when that switch was off no power would go to the panel at all so nobody could start my car. That switch would be my hidden kill switch.