Extremely Lean After Enthalpy ECU Install

[NickS14]

Hey guys, been in talks with Martin over at Enthalpy but thought I'd turn to the forums for some insight. My current setup is as follows:
T3/T4 Turbo
370cc Injectors (stock SR)
Z32 MAF
Walbro 255
Stock Internals

ECU is tuned for T25/28, 370's, Z32 MAF, 91 octane

After installing and wiring up the new ECU and MAF car starts but runs completely rich on the AFR... Not sure if these ECUs run on an open or closed loop? Also, if have a faulty knock sensor (code) would cause it to pull the timing enough to run completely lean like this?

Here is a video of current running conditions:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqt1diisqgg&feature=youtu.be

[TheRealSy90]

Are you letting the engine reach operating temperature?

[NickS14]

Aside from the beginning of the video, the engine was at temp

[spooled240]

The knock sensor will not change your fuel maps at all. It's really there to tell if there's crappy gas in the tank and will pull timing under light/no load if it senses knock if I remember correctly.

I'd check if your injectors are leaking past the orings. If they aren't I'd then check the maf.

[NickS14]

The knock sensor will not change your fuel maps at all. It's really there to tell if there's crappy gas in the tank and will pull timing under light/no load if it senses knock if I remember correctly.

I'd check if your injectors are leaking past the orings. If they aren't I'd then check the maf.

MAF is brand new, and wired to the specs given to me by Martin at Enthalpy. I'll take a look into the injectors

[AJZax]

- do you have a good walbro?
- what's your fuel pressure?
- OEM JECS Z32 / N62 MAF?
- do you have any funky rev cuts? (faulty maf or maf wiring)
- did you follow the JWT wiring diagram? It's backwards from what it looks like btw.
- you haven't retimed the car at all?
- where did you get the SR injectors? (I always opt for buying new fiveO injectors, as they use denso blanks, / they do not redrill injectors, and they flow test with heptane at specific pressure and give you flow sheets. New injectors is just nice so you don't have to worry. Redrills are a bad idea.

The tunes enthalpy sends are usually 99% spot on. My car is close to 600whp, and the tune didn't really need to be tweeked on the dyno. And my setup is far from stock. Most of the tunes he sends are actually dynotunes from other cars with the same setup (they've tuned thousands of cars,... literally) .

[NickS14]

- do you have a good walbro?
- what's your fuel pressure?
- OEM JECS Z32 / N62 MAF?
- do you have any funky rev cuts? (faulty maf or maf wiring)
- did you follow the JWT wiring diagram? It's backwards from what it looks like btw.
- you haven't retimed the car at all?
- where did you get the SR injectors? (I always opt for buying new fiveO injectors, as they use denso blanks, / they do not redrill injectors, and they flow test with heptane at specific pressure and give you flow sheets. New injectors is just nice so you don't have to worry. Redrills are a bad idea.

The tunes enthalpy sends are usually 99% spot on. My car is close to 600whp, and the tune didn't really need to be tweeked on the dyno. And my setup is far from stock. Most of the tunes he sends are actually dynotunes from other cars with the same setup (they've tuned thousands of cars,... literally) .

Walbro, I believe is good. Working at installing a fuel pressure gauge to monitor under different conditions. The MAF is an OEM reman. No funky rev cut at 2500 like a bad MAF. Wiring I used was directed to me by Enthalpy so Im sure thats on point. Car hasn't been retimed. They're stock SR injectors from what I know... Were cleaned and tested by Deatschwerks a few years ago.

[feito]

weird, i've never heard about brand new oem remanufactured z32 mafs. As long as it's not one of those crappy 100 dollar isis ones u find in enjuku

[NickS14]

weird, i've never heard about brand new oem remanufactured z32 mafs. As long as it's not one of those crappy 100 dollar isis ones u find in enjuku

Its a reman, but exterior is OEM Nissan, I guess they replaced the internals, and nope not an ISIS brand one haha

[FaLKoN240]

Shit I have an ISIS MAF on my car. LOL

[Fuego]

What has Martin said about it?

[Croustibat]

First, get a new knock sensor. I could not hear sound on the video, but starting that lean and keeping that lean could be anything fuel / air metering related. So ...bad fuel delivery (pump/injectors/filter/FPR), bad air metering (faulty MAF, boost leak, leaking BOV), or bad mapping.

I'd try with a known working z32 maf, too. If you know someone with a scope, have him analyze the maf response, i am quite sure you got a chinese copy and these are known to have a very poor, unfiltered response.


The knock sensor will not change your fuel maps at all. It's really there to tell if there's crappy gas in the tank and will pull timing under light/no load if it senses knock if I remember correctly.

I'd check if your injectors are leaking past the orings. If they aren't I'd then check the maf.

Dude, when you don't know, don't post.

When the ECU detects knock, it pulls timing AND uses the alternate fuel map and timing map.

If injectors were leaking, he would have hydrolocked his cylinders too.

[feito]

Could you explain how a boost leak or a leaking bov (if vented) would cause a lean condition?

[spooled240]

Dude, when you don't know, don't post.

When the ECU detects knock, it pulls timing AND uses the alternate fuel map and timing map.

If injectors were leaking, he would have hydrolocked his cylinders too.

Let's try that again France:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7310/16270589058_88d967e1d7_z.jpg
^this is from the full service manual by the way. No where does it say that it will change the fuel map or affect anything under normal driving conditions for that matter. It merely pulls timing when it detects knock when the car is NOT in normal driving conditions(aka light/no load), which is what I stated earlier.

And the orings can leak a little or a lot. There are confirmed cases in which an oring is slightly damaged and leaking enough to cause a rich condition. Hydrolock is more common in cases where the intake pipe sucks up a bunch of water when the car drives through a puddle. I'd say that's unlikey here considering that would be some extreme fuel leakage.

[AJZax]

If you have a leak after the MAF (turbo, chargepiping, intercooler, bov, manifold etc.)
in vacuum the engine is sucking in air that isn't metered by the MAF. Therefor the ECU doesn't know about some of the air going in, so it creates a lean condition. This is reversed when there is positive pressure as there is metered air leaking OUT of the system. That makes it so the ECU is putting fuel in for air that's not there.

ISIS MAF should be ok. Hell we dynotuned a stock S13 SR with an "ONLYMAF" ebay maf (haha I cautioned him against it). But Martin dynotuned it and got 258whp out of a t25 370cc setup. Then after it we got 255whp out of another stock SR using a JECS OEM N62 MAF. (obviously the MAF didn't make the power difference, it is simply showing that both mafs did the job).

The hot wire element in the ebay MAF was a weird coiled spring instead of the antenna looking element of JECS.

Realize a hotwire maf is simply a wire that is heated by the system to create resistance. So your 5V signal through the MAF is resisted down to .45V or so, and as air flows through it it cools the wire, reducing resistance and increasing voltage. This works realyl well as it accoutns for temperature and air density changes and can accurately meter air MASS instead of using a calculation. This is why OEMs use MAF instead of MAP on turbo application.

-how sure are you on those injectors? (can you try known good sr 370cc injectors from a running stock SR?)
- boost leak test
- test fuel pressure

[Fuego]

Could you explain how a boost leak or a leaking bov (if vented) would cause a lean condition?

If it was stuck open, it could pull unmetered air while under vac. It would run rich under boost though so his theory doesn't work here.

[NickS14]

If you have a leak after the MAF (turbo, chargepiping, intercooler, bov, manifold etc.)
in vacuum the engine is sucking in air that isn't metered by the MAF. Therefor the ECU doesn't know about some of the air going in, so it creates a lean condition. This is reversed when there is positive pressure as there is metered air leaking OUT of the system. That makes it so the ECU is putting fuel in for air that's not there.

ISIS MAF should be ok. Hell we dynotuned a stock S13 SR with an "ONLYMAF" ebay maf (haha I cautioned him against it). But Martin dynotuned it and got 258whp out of a t25 370cc setup. Then after it we got 255whp out of another stock SR using a JECS OEM N62 MAF. (obviously the MAF didn't make the power difference, it is simply showing that both mafs did the job).

The hot wire element in the ebay MAF was a weird coiled spring instead of the antenna looking element of JECS.

Realize a hotwire maf is simply a wire that is heated by the system to create resistance. So your 5V signal through the MAF is resisted down to .45V or so, and as air flows through it it cools the wire, reducing resistance and increasing voltage. This works realyl well as it accoutns for temperature and air density changes and can accurately meter air MASS instead of using a calculation. This is why OEMs use MAF instead of MAP on turbo application.

-how sure are you on those injectors? (can you try known good sr 370cc injectors from a running stock SR?)
- boost leak test
- test fuel pressure

- Not exactly sure on the injectors, haven't been tested in a while
- Will also test for boost leaks, but not sure how that would cause me to run lean
- Installing a fuel pressure gauge most likely tomorrow to see how the fuel pressure is

[NickS14]

Sent ECU to Enthalpy.... Turns out ECU was tuned for N60 not Z32 as advertised by the guy who sold me the ECU.... Problem solved... Shout out to Martin at Enthalpy for always being extremely helpful.

[feito]

If it was stuck open, it could pull unmetered air while under vac. It would run rich under boost though so his theory doesn't work here.
the only way a leak would cause a lean at idle condition would be if it's past the throttle body. Otherwise, it would run rich. Anything leaking before the TB (Between turbo and throttle body) would cause a rich condition, including a leaky bov.

Ah, and this is straight from Nistune's web page, #2 clearly states not to use fake mafs:
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j341/andres14oj/Untitledsdfasdf_zpsa0e21e60.png (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/andres14oj/media/Untitledsdfasdf_zpsa0e21e60.png.html)

[NickS14]

UPDATE: So, after having the ECU retuned and getting bigger injectors, now once installed it is running very rich... 12.3-12.6 at idle and 10.0 while driving... I can get it into boost but bogs heavily and doesn't pull at all.

Any ideas? Not running a boost controller, just the 7lb spring in the external TiAL 38mm wastegate...

Ideas?

[slideslidegnarslide]

Did you get it tuned for the bigger injectors

[NickS14]

Yes... was running stock SR's, upgraded to Deatschwerks 550's and had it tuned for them...

[FaLKoN240]

Are you still running that Isis maf? Try getting an OEM used one.

For the record my enthalpy tune runs about the same as yours. Idles around 11-12.5 cruises anything over 10% throttle at 10 AFR.

Sucks.

[corby_baby]

Are you still running that Isis maf? Try getting an OEM used one.

For the record my enthalpy tune runs about the same as yours. Idles around 11-12.5 cruises anything over 10% throttle at 10 AFR.

Sucks.

Then you have something wrong with your setup, not the tune.

[Croustibat]

Let's try that again France:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7310/16270589058_88d967e1d7_z.jpg
^this is from the full service manual by the way. No where does it say that it will change the fuel map or affect anything under normal driving conditions for that matter. It merely pulls timing when it detects knock when the car is NOT in normal driving conditions(aka light/no load), which is what I stated earlier.
[...]


Didn't saw that answer at the time...

Ask any tuner using a nistune, and he will tell you are wrong. The ECU has 2 sets of fuel & timing maps, when it detects knock it uses the alternate knock maps (and may pull timing on top of that, many users reported this when copying normal maps to knock maps). Or you could just seach the internet for the ECU address file. You will see there are 2 sets of maps. If you are still not convinced, reverse engineer the ecu code. It is an old and simple mcu, so while tedious, it still is easy.



Anyway, mail order tune have their limits and injector modification is not that easy, esp. with a different FPR. Either your injectors are actually bigger than you think, and have a shorter latency than what is in the tune, or you may have a problem with the FPR, or ... the mail order tune is actually very rich on purpose, as no one wants a blown engine because the fuel system is weak.

It is not hard nor to set latency and K correctly, but the tuner really needs the car to get it spot on. It cannot be done without.

[NickS14]

UPDATE: Turns out I had a knock sensor code, and I sent back to Enthalpy to have the code erased, got the ECU back and runs much better now, its actually drivable now, but I may get an SAFC II to fine tune.

Big thanks to Martin at Enthalpy for being extremely helpful and handling all of my questions in a timely and thorough manner.

[spooled240]

OP what do you mean Enthalpy "erased the code"? Couldn't that have been achieved with an OBD scanner or simply disconnecting the battery? Or did he disable the knock sensor circuit? curious..

Didn't saw that answer at the time...

Ask any tuner using a nistune, and he will tell you are wrong. The ECU has 2 sets of fuel & timing maps, when it detects knock it uses the alternate knock maps (and may pull timing on top of that, many users reported this when copying normal maps to knock maps). Or you could just seach the internet for the ECU address file. You will see there are 2 sets of maps. If you are still not convinced, reverse engineer the ecu code. It is an old and simple mcu, so while tedious, it still is easy.



Anyway, mail order tune have their limits and injector modification is not that easy, esp. with a different FPR. Either your injectors are actually bigger than you think, and have a shorter latency than what is in the tune, or you may have a problem with the FPR, or ... the mail order tune is actually very rich on purpose, as no one wants a blown engine because the fuel system is weak.

It is not hard nor to set latency and K correctly, but the tuner really needs the car to get it spot on. It cannot be done without.

I think you might be confusing the functionality of the knock sensor on reflashed ecu's. I wouldn't doubt that those might have additional fuel maps and features should the knock sensor encounter any issues.

I'm not completely ruling out the possibility that Nissan designed the stock ecu's with two fuel/timing maps, but I just have a hard time believing that they wouldn't have mentioned it in the FSM. Case in fact: My engine was producing devastating knock on boost which ended up cracking ring lands on #4 and there was no apparent change in the driveability. Even JimWolf himself told me that the knock sensor is there to retard timing under light loads and was mostly used to "protect" (although very minimal) the engine from bad gas, etc.

[NickS14]

OP what do you mean Enthalpy "erased the code"? Couldn't that have been achieved with an OBD scanner or simply disconnecting the battery? Or did he disable the knock sensor circuit? curious..
.

Great question... Not sure the exact process in what he did, basically he made so I don't have to replace the knock sensor in order for the ECU to not run in "safety mode" ... so basically ECU doesn't detect the bad knock sensor and throw the code, no more codes..... Maybe thats disabling the knock sensor circuit??

[KAT-PWR]

Prob disabled the knock sensor. After changing 4 knock sensors and 3 sub harnesses I told martin to just rid me of that shit. Had no issues for a year, then he came and tuned me on the dyno without it.

[NickS14]

Prob disabled the knock sensor. After changing 4 knock sensors and 3 sub harnesses I told martin to just rid me of that shit. Had no issues for a year, then he came and tuned me on the dyno without it.

Thus were my thoughts as well... Knock sensor could go again, and again, just solve the prob for good

Wish he would come and tune me on the dyno... make my life a little easier ...

[FaLKoN240]

How did he verify the knock sensor was out? I have had problems with the knock sensor on my car in the past.

[feito]

I had a lean problem with enthalpy as well. I triple tested all my components and even tried it with two good used nissan oem mafs. Nothing did it for me, I had to give up. But Martin is the best at customer service, he tried all he could (including sending me different tunes) and was always there to answer questions and even trouble shoot by the phone. I would have love to have been able to have it dynotune by him, to the point that im still considering making the trip to have him dyno tune my nistune. Anybody knows if he does that?

[KAT-PWR]

I had a lean problem with enthalpy as well. I triple tested all my components and even tried it with two good used nissan oem mafs. Nothing did it for me, I had to give up. But Martin is the best at customer service, he tried all he could (including sending me different tunes) and was always there to answer questions and even trouble shoot by the phone. I would have love to have been able to have it dynotune by him, to the point that im still considering making the trip to have him dyno tune my nistune. Anybody knows if he does that?

IIRC he can

[cotbu]

Yeah, sometimes tuners post the itinerary for states or counties they'll be in and will try to schedule you in if you're lucky.

Some will even fly out of state to do a tuning session. Money talks!
So if you're not real close to martin, talk to your local shop with access to a dyno and see if they are willing to do a dyno day, see if Martin schedule is open and see if he'll do the dyno on a scheduled date. There might be specifics that Martin might request, like wiring complete, no leaks or no coil pack cover and a list of relevant mods and maybe even the ecu and tuning software you use. You don't really want him there to fix your car either, so be courteous.

Just try communicating with him!

Sent from my Highly Tuned Note 4.5!!!

[corby_baby]

I had a lean problem with enthalpy as well. I triple tested all my components and even tried it with two good used nissan oem mafs. Nothing did it for me, I had to give up. But Martin is the best at customer service, he tried all he could (including sending me different tunes) and was always there to answer questions and even trouble shoot by the phone. I would have love to have been able to have it dynotune by him, to the point that im still considering making the trip to have him dyno tune my nistune. Anybody knows if he does that?

he does dyno sessions in houston / dallas at least 4 times a year.

from the last houston day a couple weeks ago...

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b187/corbeybaby/811C9299-5CA0-435E-A1B6-39DB030E5F24_zpsco0m2kjc.jpg (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/corbeybaby/media/811C9299-5CA0-435E-A1B6-39DB030E5F24_zpsco0m2kjc.jpg.html)

[NickS14]

How did he verify the knock sensor was out? I have had problems with the knock sensor on my car in the past.

I told him it was throwing a knock sensor code... Check your codes, Knock Sensor was the only one I had and thats what was causing my issues...

[NickS14]

he does dyno sessions in houston / dallas at least 4 times a year.

from the last houston day a couple weeks ago...

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b187/corbeybaby/811C9299-5CA0-435E-A1B6-39DB030E5F24_zpsco0m2kjc.jpg (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/corbeybaby/media/811C9299-5CA0-435E-A1B6-39DB030E5F24_zpsco0m2kjc.jpg.html)


Thats awesome man, nice S13, btw, love the tiffany blue

Do you have an engine bay shot, would love to see your set up

[spooled240]

Does Enthalpy dyno tune your car for free when you get their mail order ROM tune?

That's weird that you guys are experiencing such issues with your knock sensors..I've had knock sensor code 34 on my ka-t for years now and my car still ran great. I never really looked into it because the code only popped up with my JWT ecu which was actually an OBD 1 95 ecu. Whenever I'd swap the stock '97 OBD 2 ecu in the code wouldn't pop up.

[NickS14]

Does Enthalpy dyno tune your car for free when you get their mail order ROM tune?

That's weird that you guys are experiencing such issues with your knock sensors..I've had knock sensor code 34 on my ka-t for years now and my car still ran great. I never really looked into it because the code only popped up with my JWT ecu which was actually an OBD 1 95 ecu. Whenever I'd swap the stock '97 OBD 2 ecu in the code wouldn't pop up.

Enthalpy on tunes S13 ECU's and then uses a jumper harness to go from S13 to S14 ECU, thats what the difference may be...

[KAT-PWR]

Does Enthalpy dyno tune your car for free when you get their mail order ROM tune?

That's weird that you guys are experiencing such issues with your knock sensors..I've had knock sensor code 34 on my ka-t for years now and my car still ran great. I never really looked into it because the code only popped up with my JWT ecu which was actually an OBD 1 95 ecu. Whenever I'd swap the stock '97 OBD 2 ecu in the code wouldn't pop up.

Not free prob 100-150 for a dyno re tune plus dyno time.

[corby_baby]

Not free prob 100-150 for a dyno re tune plus dyno time.

This. To be quite honest (he will tell you also), most of his tunes are spot on and he does very little tweaking on the dyno. If you have a basic bolt on setup, you might see 5-10hp difference if he does adjust anything. In my case, I had aftermarket cams where we were initially at 20psi and 380whp, tweaked the tune, made 382whp at 15psi.

Martin knows his shit and if you ever meet him in person you can tell right off the bat. Like others said his customer service is top notch. After his dyno day ended in Dallas, he drove 3.5 hrs and met my buddy and I at a shop in Houston at midnight to load tunes on our cars just so we could drive up to the dyno the following morning. He will go out of his way to please his customers. There has been multiple occasions i have seen him do things that I know for a fact most tuners wouldn't do just because he cares and is trying to grow his business while helping out the community.

[Croustibat]

Prob disabled the knock sensor. After changing 4 knock sensors and 3 sub harnesses I told martin to just rid me of that shit. Had no issues for a year, then he came and tuned me on the dyno without it.

Interested in how he did that. I always heard you need a 500 to 1Kohm resistor on the cable that goes to the ECU, so he probably soldered that in the ECU. But i never did it on a nissan engine.

Tried it on a toyota ecu but it didn't work ( the work differently, it is a pain)





I think you might be confusing the functionality of the knock sensor on reflashed ecu's. I wouldn't doubt that those might have additional fuel maps and features should the knock sensor encounter any issues.

I'm not completely ruling out the possibility that Nissan designed the stock ecu's with two fuel/timing maps, but I just have a hard time believing that they wouldn't have mentioned it in the FSM. Case in fact: My engine was producing devastating knock on boost which ended up cracking ring lands on #4 and there was no apparent change in the driveability. Even JimWolf himself told me that the knock sensor is there to retard timing under light loads and was mostly used to "protect" (although very minimal) the engine from bad gas, etc.

I am not confusing anything. Until the feature pack 1, a nistune was just modifying OEM data stored in an eprom in the ECU. The FP1 actually modifies the code and removes the knock maps to make some room for the flexfuel system.

The FSM is a manual for stores, not for reverse engineering enthusiasts, that is why the info is not in.

I believe nistune makes a demo version of its software, it is very crippled and unusable to tune, but you can test the UI on it and see for yourself. You can also check the address files, they are provided in the "rom pack" . You will see there is a knock fuel map and a knock timing map. If it sill is not enough, i think i have the code somewhere for a ca18det (lower level is different from sr20 but it works the same way. It is also easier to understand as it actually was written in asm on the first versions, not compiled as it is on the 44F ECUs). It is a 6802 MCU, which is a very old and simple µcontroler, so it has very few instructions.

U, but I may get an SAFC II to fine tune.



Seriously don't do that. It is the nastiest piece of crap you can fit on a MAF system.

I don't understand why so many people want one. That thing changes the MAF signal, and your ECU relies on this to set fuel AND timing .

Tuning the K and latency values is a 30mn work, and it does not requires a dyno, just a wideband AFR sensor.

[KAT-PWR]

My first experience on the dyno with Martin. Spent the prior night going top feed, installing cams, new turbo and downpipe; had a stripped fuel rail bolt that was sort of holding. Went to dyno fuel rail kept backing out boost leaking. Paid Martin, he said hey man i got you on the next tune.
Next time i was ready. I think i started around 373 then made 38X Martin asked what i thought. We both knew 400 was where the car should be. One more pull, boom 400.

I've literally been dealing with Martin 4 years. I have always been very satisfied with his performance and service. No complaints except that i don't live in Tampa closer to him.

[cotbu]

Interested in how he did that. I always heard you need a 500 to 1Kohm resistor on the cable that goes to the ECU, so he probably soldered that in the ECU. But i never did it on a nissan engine.

Tried it on a toyota ecu but it didn't work ( the work differently, it is a pain)





I am not confusing anything. Until the feature pack 1, a nistune was just modifying OEM data stored in an eprom in the ECU. The FP1 actually modifies the code and removes the knock maps to make some room for the flexfuel system.

The FSM is a manual for stores, not for reverse engineering enthusiasts, that is why the info is not in.

I believe nistune makes a demo version of its software, it is very crippled and unusable to tune, but you can test the UI on it and see for yourself. You can also check the address files, they are provided in the "rom pack" . You will see there is a knock fuel map and a knock timing map. If it sill is not enough, i think i have the code somewhere for a ca18det (lower level is different from sr20 but it works the same way. It is also easier to understand as it actually was written in asm on the first versions, not compiled as it is on the 44F ECUs). It is a 6802 MCU, which is a very old and simple µcontroler, so it has very few instructions.



Seriously don't do that. It is the nastiest piece of crap you can fit on a MAF system.

I don't understand why so many people want one. That thing changes the MAF signal, and your ECU relies on this to set fuel AND timing .

Tuning the K and latency values is a 30mn work, and it does not requires a dyno, just a wideband AFR sensor.

Are you still trying to convince him there are indeed knock maps for timing and fuel? Forget about it! It's harder to relearn people than a Nissan ecu! That goes for "fine tuning" with a safc as well!

Tuning the k and latency is easy, but that's not where the power comes from. I can confirm that an un-tuned Sr can make 350hp from a 2871r @ 17psi with just a mafs and an injector upgrade. Still people are like, this tuner tuned my blah blah and I make 350hp at 20psi. :eek:

And yes I've tweaked a few of enthalpy tunes, they are usually conservative from my experience and can benefit from dyno time if you want more power. Not everyone needs more power or to conserve gas though, so if you just need your engine to run correctly you're good to go!

Sent from my Highly Tuned Note 4.5!!!

[cotbu]

Xd wrong thread