dominating GS class

[KwKouki]

Per the rules of SCCA, I have decided that I have to prove my new nickname "mini-hunter" I plan on staying in Gs class for a while for 2 reasons 1) I like the competition 2) there is no STS class down here.

I am planning my modifications. Tell me what you think and suggest anything

G Stock (GS)
-any shocks/struts -- KYB AGX
-any front sway bar -- Undecided
-any reasonably quiet exhaust, from catalytic converter back -- RS-R ExMag
-any street or R-tire that will fit on stock sized and stock offset wheels -- Falken Azenis 205/50/15 on s13 se 7-spokes
-any brake pads -- Undecided
-harnesses -- Undecided

Please feel free on suggest a part for "undecided"

I plan on putting springs with the AGXs. I doubt they will catch it, ad they really dont care. As for engine, I am limited, so I plan a surgical tune up. My next question is about the body kit rule. A kit will bump my class, but it says nothing about OEM parts. Will a Kouki front/sides from a 180sx type-x be considered "body kit"

[ZK]

If you can prove that it is a factory option piece, you should be able to use it.

I've known S14s running 300ZX brakes in GS because it is a factory brake in Japan and Europe.

GS is a hard class to run, a lot of people tend to run R-compounds in that class which is unfair if you are running street tires. Also, some people will try to fit the largest tire they can on stock wheels. Like Integras running 225 series tires in front with 205 in the back for more tail happy and faster cornering.

The class is usually dominated by Integra Type Rs, Imprezas, Mini Cooper Ss and the like.

[nocomedown]

quick question. would putting an s14 seat in an s13 knock you out of GS?

[019]

300zx brakes in GS b/c they're stock in japan and europe? no way... then you could technically put an sr b/c it's stock in japan and europe as well. they shouldn't allow you to run in GS with those brakes.

shocks/struts - i'd recommend koni yellows over agx's
front sway bar - if you really want one, whiteline
bake pads - axxis ultimates or something comparable (porterfield r4s, carbotech bobcats) if you want street pads. race pads would be nice, but i don't know if you'd heat them up enough for them to be work nicely at an autox
harness - schroth!

[HaLo]

-any shocks/struts : Koni Yellow are far better unit than KYB AGX... Trust me! :)
-any front sway bar: Whiteline... But I would not change the front sway only
-any reasonably quiet exhaust, from catalytic converter back -- RS-R ExMag : that seems okay to me.
-any street or R-tire that will fit on stock sized and stock offset wheels: Want to be competitive: run 225 hoosiers all around if you can fit the on the wheels... if not, 215 hoosiers. Azenis won't cut it against R-tires...
-any brake pads: Axxis ultimate Ceramic.
-harnesses: Schroth 4-point.

[KwKouki]

My class consists of a mini cooper S (soon to be 2) Integra, unknown mercedes, alfa spyder, 3000gt, older style 300zx, and a dodge something.

I can beat all except the mini. Hes running Kumho victoracers. I want something equivelant. Halo, I think 225 will be too big for the 7in wheel.

Thanks for the suggestions, I will look into them

[jmauld]

Definitely go with the Koni's over the AGX.

You will also want to get a front sway bar. Running in GS will kill the outside edges of your tire because you have to run factory camber. A larger front swaybar will help keep the front of the car level and allow you to use more of your tire.

Since you're limited by the amount of money you can spend on modding the car, your biggest improvement over the koni's is going to be finding the lightest rims you can and running Hoosiers.

Don't forget to do things like keeping your car tuned properly.

Try running 1/8" total toe out in the front and 0 toe out in the rear. If you would like a little more oversteer, you can try a tiny bit of toe out in the rear, but the car may become a little unstable at speed.

[the head]

when you say you want somthing equivilant do you want a full depth tire or a shaved race tire
full depth i would use A032R yokohamas i get about two summers out of mine on my daily driver

[LanceS13]

SCCA only recognizes USDM models. Factory 180SX body parts will be considered a body kit. 300ZX brakes will be considered a brake upgrade.

Definitely get Victoracers or Hoosiers if you can afford them...205/50/15 would probably be best. The best legal wheel would be the lightest +35 offset 15x6" you can find. (They consider stock offset anything within 0.25" or 6mm of actual stock offset)

Why cheat with the springs? Build a legal car and try to take that mini down!

nocomedown: S14 seats are not legal in an S13 in GS.

[HaLo]

if a Type-R can fit 225 on 6" wheels, you can too! ;)

[AutoRnD]

front sway bar - whiteline
bake pads - ENDLESS SSS OR VITA NUOVA
harness - SChrOTH OR WILLANS

[Var]

front sway bar - whiteline
Koni Yellow>AGX but rear koni's take 30 minutes to adjust
Toyo RA-1 . 205-50-15(just bought a set for 525 bucks)
make sure you get an alignment..i got .5 degrees total toe out..dont know what that translates into in inches but it helps
and obviously make sure you have an lsd of any kind, nobody can tell what's in your pumpkin

[thelinja]

I'm running stock suspension and you're going to have to be a damned good driver if you want to keep up with a Mini S that has a decent driver. The Mini S is lighter, has a lower CG, and a shorter wheelbase, oh yeah, more hp too. I've been very close a few times. It's strange though, the past few autox's I've come within .3 of the leader who drive's a Mini S. But then next run, BAM he gets a faster time by like 2 seconds. I don't know man, I'd practice driving A LOT as opposed to buying new suspension. Experience helps more than anything, I've gotten a lot better this past spring, but I'm no where close to where I want to be as a driver. And most of the guys that driver Mini's have been racing for years so there you go. Good luck with "Operation Mini Hunt", you have no idea what you're up against.

I'm actually starting to get used to placing 7th in my class, and then 9th in index though. :o

[HaLo]

Why not win without CHEATING?

[nocomedown]

Why not win without CHEATING?
i agree. if you have a modification that moves you to a different class, there's a reason for it. you wouldnt be too happy if you found out that you were competing against people in a class where they were doing things that gave them a massive unfair advantage over you.

[KwKouki]

springs wont give me a MASSIVE advantage. It will however stiffen up my car so im not bouncing in the slalom.

[HaLo]

actually, shocks will stiffen the car to take the bouncing out...

you're better off keeping it to the rule book... There's no point to beat someone by cheating. I wouldn't even feel proud to beat a stock mini if I weren't following the rules to my class.

[IdriveAhonda]

springs wont give me a MASSIVE advantage. It will however stiffen up my car so im not bouncing in the slalom.

No, they won't give you a massive advantage, they'll just adjust the entire handling dynamics of the car, keep the static camber angles in check, improve weight transfer, reduce sway, not to mention eliminate brake dive and nose-lift, and will make transitions much faster and more precise.

Springs are what make the car. You can run no front OR rear swaybars if you have the correct spring/springrate/shock setup. Its like saying ride height doesn't matter, or tires don't matter, or the engine doesn't matter. There's a reason why it will bump you into a different class. You might as well put an SR in there and disguise it to look like a stock KA, throw some NOS in it as well, change the rear swaybar and paint it stock black, throw some stock looking 8 pistons on it, then you'll catch that stock mini for sure, and you can go home and feel good about yourself.

[thx247]

Hm, you won't get far trying to cheat in solo II. The first time you win you'll get protested. It doesn't take any time to check under a car for illegal struts, springs or bracing. An LSD takes 2 minutes to check for with a jack.

The hardest part about winning GS? Fixing all the busted ass shit on a 14 year old car without cheating.

[AceInHole]

shocks: *revalved* Konis: the old super high rebound dampening to squat the car and keep it there untill you're done slaloming or whatever :p
sways: stock sways are fine. adding the front won't really help too much. some people will actually remove it (mostly the FWD guys tho).
also, a K&N drop in filter is a good idea (or run no-filter).

Tires = Hoosier. Even if no one else has them now, someone WILL come and bring their Hoosiers. That's what happened to me in SM this year :/ I jumped into a car I'd never been in before that had less power and skinnier tires, but they were Hoosiers. I destroyed my best time from the 5 runs in my own car on Victos easily, with noticeable f*ck-ups.

Here's the thing though: some people say the 225 buldging on a 6" won't have much more contact patch than the 205, and the 205 being lighter, having an even stiffer sidewall, and almost equal contact patch will end up being faster. It's not really something you can prove though.... but some people are faster on 205's, some are faster on 225's I guess.....

[KwKouki]

There's a reason why it will bump you into a different class. You might as well put an SR in there and disguise it to look like a stock KA, throw some NOS in it as well, change the rear swaybar and paint it stock black, throw some stock looking 8 pistons on it, then you'll catch that stock mini for sure, and you can go home and feel good about yourself.

Damn buddy, do you drive a mini by any chance??

I DO plan on staying within the rule book. However someone brought up the lsd thing. My car did some stock with an lsd, so whats the problem with putting one in??

Halo - you can answer this for me. Will aftermarket shocks/struts run okay with stock springs?? I always thought that was a no-no. Tell me if im wrong.

I do feel that I can out-drive the mini. However, when Skip takes delivery on his mini, I am very fucked.

[98sr20ve]

I DO plan on staying within the rule book. However someone brought up the lsd thing. My car did some stock with an lsd, so whats the problem with putting one in??

Halo - you can answer this for me. Will aftermarket shocks/struts run okay with stock springs?? I always thought that was a no-no. Tell me if im wrong.

I do feel that I can out-drive the mini. However, when Skip takes delivery on his mini, I am very fucked.

You need to use the stock LSD. You can not upgrade it. In stock class the only real mods are: Tires, Rims of the same size and offset (plus or minus a little as posted), Exhaust, Drop in air filter, Shocks and Struts. Tires. If you plan on being competative then you need excellent tires, shocks/struts and suspension setup. Brake pads/exhaust/filter will be the least of your worries as long as they are all decent and working properly you will be fine. In other words the difference between a good set of brake pads and the best is not going to cut much time from your run, Same with the exhaust. It all adds up in the end but focus on the Tires, Shocks and Setup first.

[OptionZero]

Question: Why does everyone recommend the Koni Yellow over the KYB AGX? I have the AGX's, but i've only run one AutoX so I can hardly compare.

[thx247]

stock means stock. you cannot add the vlsd (which sucks anyway) without adding the other equipement that comes with the lsd package. Time to break out the hicas equipment.

[HaLo]

Because KYB AGX blows. ;) Seriously, they are much softer that Koni Yellows. That is why. ;)

As for aftermarket shock with stock springs, it a big A-OK! Everyone almost in stock class does that.

[Var]

A lotta people talk down on Hicas for mad tyte drifting. Do you guys have any experience in this situation? I imagine it would help a lot

[AceInHole]

stock means stock. you cannot add the vlsd (which sucks anyway) without adding the other equipement that comes with the lsd package. Time to break out the hicas equipment.

VLSD was always a stock option. It wasn't a "HICAS- only" option, AFAIK.

[HaLo]

A lotta people talk down on Hicas for mad tyte drifting. Do you guys have any experience in this situation? I imagine it would help a lot


2 thumbs up for Hicas... people who talk down on it have their info from friends who know friends that have friends that is a mad drifter and took hicas out...

[jmauld]

sways: stock sways are fine. adding the front won't really help too much.

The main difference that I saw was that I had destroyed the outside edge of the front tires within three events without the front swaybar upgrade. After adding the ST front swaybar and flipping the tires on the rims, I was able to make the same tire last through another 8 or 9 events, which included track time.

For that reason alone I think the front swaybar is worthwhile. FWDers remove the front swaybar to gain acceleration out of the corners. We don't have that issue.


Halo - you can answer this for me. Will aftermarket shocks/struts run okay with stock springs?? I always thought that was a no-no. Tell me if im wrong. It's a no-no to run stock shocks/struts on aftermarket springs, not the other way around. Koni's and stock springs are quite impressive.

[jmauld]

you cannot add the vlsd (which sucks anyway) .

For a stock car it doesn't suck half as bad as some would have you believe.

[KwKouki]

about the Koni's. Exactly how hard are they to adjust?? Im not really looking to play with them all that much, but if I have to, I want it to be simple.

[HaLo]

turn style knob in front...
harder in the back... :)


but they are so much better that your average damper. :)

[thx247]

For a stock car it doesn't suck half as bad as some would have you believe.


Thats just my opinion based on driving a vlsd and a S15 diff on the track. S15 diff I can get right on the gas, vlsd I have to wait forever, open diff I can't get on the gas period.

I mean yeh its an improvement over an open diff, but I would almost rather weld the diff than run an open again.

Hicas is only noticeable to me in the rain in low speed turns, everywhere else I have not noticed it, even on high speed turns it's seamless.

You may be right ace, I just remember seeing multiple times that it wasn't possible to get a vlsd without having hicas in the states.

[jmauld]

My vlsd worked seemlessly on track. I've only ever had it not work correctly when I was running street tires in an autocross, so it probably is on it's way out. Considering that it has 114K miles and has been abused for the past 2yrs, that's not so bad.

Don't get me wrong, I would try to replace it with a torsen style diff in my class (DSP), but in this instance of the guy running in stock class, his only option is a vlsd. And in that case, it really isn't a bad choice.

[jmauld]

about the Koni's. Exactly how hard are they to adjust?? Im not really looking to play with them all that much, but if I have to, I want it to be simple.

With the stock springs, I set the rear koni's to about 1/2 a turn from full soft, and never adjusted them again. The front shocks I played around with different settings and found that I got the best results at about 1/4-1/2 turn up from full soft. Depending on your tires and swaybar choices, you may find something that works better for you. You really shouldn't have to mess around with the rear shocks too much, just don't set them overly stiff.

[KwKouki]

I am looking into a set of autoX-only wheels/tires.

I think I am going to go with Rota Slipstreams im 15x6.5 +40 and run Falken Azenis 205-50-15. The slips weigh 12lbs a piece. I can find a set with the Azenis tires m&b with shipping for $808.


WAIT.....Wont aftermarket wheels kick me out of GS

[nocomedown]

not as long as you get stock sizes or something like within .25" so basically you'd need 15x6 +40, which would be a waste of money since that's a horrible size and offset.

[thelinja]

n which would be a waste of money since that's a horrible size and offset.


Word, get some Konis or something. I could think of 11ty billion different things you could buy other than ghey honda wheels, oh well, time to autox!.

[Var]

about the Koni's. Exactly how hard are they to adjust?? Im not really looking to play with them all that much, but if I have to, I want it to be simple.


How to adjust Koni rear.

Take mac-strut assembly out. Take springs perch and spring off shock. Compress shock down to end of travel and twist. Put everything back together.. Test drive.Do it again.

If you find blown konis, you can send them in for rebuild for 100 bucks and for an extra 15 bucks they can add an external adjustment for it. They can also custom valve it while it'a apart.

[MovinUp-1]

Uh, it ain't 15 bucks to make them externally adjustable. It's closer to $150. Ask me how I know......I spent about $800 this past winter getting mine custom valved and the rears made externally adjustable. And I would do it again in a heartbeat. I can adjust the car to suit different surfaces and course conditions with the turn of a knob. We've actually gotten the car down to where 1/4 turn on the rear shocks makes a big difference in the balance of the car. I love my koni shocks.

[Var]

i've been told on top of the cost of revalving, it's 15 bucks. IE: if you paid 120 per shock for revalve, it would be 135 for revalving with external adjustment. I guess i was misinformed. Who revalved your Koni's for you?