Looking for a good entry level coil over

[Cloud_Strife]

Can anyone recommend any good entry line coils that are affordable for the 240?

[Croustibat]

good, cheap.
chose one.

The less expensive coilover i found that does its job at making the car handle is the fortune auto 500. You can get them for around 1200$ excluding shipping, which is quite cheaper than i bought them last year.

If you just want the look and don't care about handling, pick any 300$ coilover, it won't matter much.

[TheRealSy90]

Fortune Auto 500's. Hands down the best performing entry level coilover and very affordable.

[Cloud_Strife]

Interesting, I've never heard of them. My main concern is that the previous owner had stock suspension with BIGGER coils. So the car looks like a rally car, it's ridiculous. I'm really just planning on it being a DD for now, and I think ebays will handle just as well if not better than now.. I would just get springs but I'm sure the stock struts are completely blown.

[Cloud_Strife]

I was thinking of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOKICO-HP-BLUE-Racing-SHOCKS-STRUTS-Eibach-springs-1989-1994-NISSAN-240SX-S13-/161542279801?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item259cab9279&vxp=mtr

(especially if I can get away with 300 for an offer)

Or these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/89-90-91-92-93-94-Nissan-240sx-OEM-springs-KYB-shocks-struts-set-STOCK-factory-/201148515932?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1989%7CMake%3ANissan%7CModel%3A240SX&hash=item2ed562c65c&vxp=mtr

What do you guys think? Are these just bolt on? Don't have a compressor so can't mess with that..

[Croustibat]

Friend of mone has tein mono flex. Since he tried my car with FA500s, he wants to sell them to get FAs :D

Before buying FAs, you need to fill a form with your intended use and current car setup. They will advise on the spring stiffness and offer different hydraulics depending on usage (street, trackdays, track only, drag). And although they still use an entry level hydraulic system, they maanged to make a digressive valving out of it (meaning they handle both high speed and low speed bumps correctly). The bump/rebound ratio is also set properly. It is in no way superior to a KW V3 or penske 3way coilovers, but that is not the same price either.

Usual low price coilovers have a bad bump/rebound ratio, meaning you can set only 1 correctly ... so the car will either tramline on perfect road and break your spine everywhere else, or will break your spine slightly less on not so perfect road and be all over the road when the suspension moves. Buy cheap buy twice. I did, then i spend 1500€ on FA500s.

A cheaper good handling solution is this : for around 800$ you can get swift springs (which are the best spring makers ever, period) and kyb agx struts all round. that setup will beat any sub 1200$ coilover both in handling and comfort hands down.

[e1_griego]

You're in portland. If you need a suspension tutorial there is a group of us that have dinner every thurs night in tualatin. Happy to hold your hand and walk you through building a 240.

[Croustibat]

I was thinking of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOKICO-HP-BLUE-Racing-SHOCKS-STRUTS-Eibach-springs-1989-1994-NISSAN-240SX-S13-/161542279801?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item259cab9279&vxp=mtr

(especially if I can get away with 300 for an offer)

Or these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/89-90-91-92-93-94-Nissan-240sx-OEM-springs-KYB-shocks-struts-set-STOCK-factory-/201148515932?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1989%7CMake%3ANissan%7CModel%3A240SX&hash=item2ed562c65c&vxp=mtr

What do you guys think? Are these just bolt on? Don't have a compressor so can't mess with that..

I would not buy second hand hydraulics, but that is a just me.

Both are oem replacement. The GR2 is meant to be a bit harder but is supposed to be used with oem springs, it wont take abuse without blowing.

It depends on what you want to do with the car. I'd take the cheapest of the 2 for a daily without abuse. For anything performance oriented i'd stay away.

[Ilya]

The suspension you have now is better than any sub $1200 of the shelf coilover you can buy. Yes your car is high and sways when you turn, but a shitty coilover handles even worse. Plus any girl you drive in your car more than once on your "Entry Level" coilover will decide that she wants to drive her self or she will pick YOU up, ask me how I know.

[Wheel Lounge]

BC Coils hands down! IMO The best option.

[TheRealSy90]

He's asking for entry level stuff lol. Hell if he wants the good shit i'd recommend DG-5/GPSports myself. I love mine.

[e1_griego]

There is a local guy that has a set of fortunes he'll be selling here in a bit.

Come out Thursday and meet some folks.

[Cloud_Strife]

You guys aren't like the EVO guys in Initial D are you?

[e1_griego]

As long as you're not like every other local drift shit head.

[pancakes]

You're in portland. If you need a suspension tutorial there is a group of us that have dinner every thurs night in tualatin. Happy to hold your hand and walk you through building a 240.

OP, jump on this opportunity

[Cloud_Strife]

He sounds fun enough to not handle a joke.

[e1_griego]

lol ok.

Well PM me if you want the details.

[Cloud_Strife]

Here ya go griego:

http://youtu.be/-aRVPo-sAUc
Look forward to showing up awkwardly sometime :)

[e1_griego]

I've seen all of Initial D a few times, c'mon now ;)

Used to be mandatory viewing to be involved with 240s. Most everyone now hasn't seen it, it seems like.

[Cloud_Strife]

The funny part is me and my old buddy used to watch them and get drunk after working on either of our cars. Car work and drinking= I don't even remember the 180sx or 240 intro.

[e1_griego]

Really though, cheap and good are mutually exclusive when it comes to suspension.

A set of koni yellows and some coilover sleeves is prob the most cost effective. Or a set of AGX and lowering springs.

If you want to spend more than that, then a custom solution is almost always going to be better than what you can buy off the shelf.

Fortunately you live in the right area to make this sort of stuff happen ;)

[S14DB]

Just bring the fava beans!

[jedi03]

I used to run Tokiko blues with h & r springs really nice an super cheap I currently have powered by Max an I got the expensive ones for 1300...they also have set for 1000...rides super smooth! Also nice and grippy with setup!

[angel mkiv]

Gtr garage is local and they carry the dmax coilovers which were about 800$ I beleive..not 100% sure but better then most at that price

[nick Ritter]

are the fortune autos really that good ? I've never even heard of them up until a month ago...

[e1_griego]

Best of the rest.

A koni yellow/coilover sleeve combo will out-do all the <$1300 coilovers, but it takes some effort to put together, and you can't get them in whatever your favorite color is.

If you're buying your first set of coilovers and/or just drifting, they're probably fine.

[AJZax]

fortune auto 500 series.

HANDS DOWN the best bang for buck.

They are outstanding.

[Croustibat]

are the fortune autos really that good ? I've never even heard of them up until a month ago...

IMHO this is caused by these coilies positionning.

The FA500s are way better stuff than the usual crap people buy, but still not good enough for serious racers that require 3 way coilies.

Zilvians are better known for slammed cars and the cheapest stuff you could buy than making reliable, powerful gripping cars. Most cars here have suspensions that wont move because they use PU bushes that are binded hard, uncorrected suspension geometry with tons of bump steer and toe steer, and cheap coilovers with blocked hydraulics or ultra hard crappy springs. Put functionnal coilovers and the car will be all over the road instead of just being very twitchy.

Even then, FA 500s are too expensive for them (even with the current cut down in price).

But if you head down to some serious racing forums, you will hear about penske, moton, nitron, koni inserts in coilover sleeves, kw v3 and so on. Simply put, these ARE better than FA500s. And they should, because they are at least twice as expensive.

My opinion is the FA500s are "stuck" in the place where someone would want a finely working suspension that can handle day to day driving and trackday performance, without the usual wear rate of race items (nor their performance, again).

To my knowledge, the FA500s are the cheapest WORKING suspension available on the market, and they are actually pretty good. They already were when the price tag was around 1500$. I recall they also offer a 5year warranty, complete parts availability, with possible upgrades (better hydraulics, swift springs, bearing mounts, additionnal testing ...). That kind of service usually comes with a higher price tag.

[bmaddock]

BC Coils hands down! IMO The best option.

+1 for an entry level coilover. Ive had BC Racing BR coilovers for some time now and really enjoy them. I actually live right next to Fortune Auto so i can attest to them being a good coilover and awesome customer service as well, but at the time i couldnt stretch the $400 more dollars for FA when i got a hook up with the guys at BC and got them shipped to me for $800.

GL buying, i had no clue Zilvia loved Fortune so much. They totally deserve it, just cool to see a 'local' brand get big.

[TheRealSy90]

Being that fortune have a pretty big presence in the Time Attack scene, I think they know how to make a functional coilover as well...

[Croustibat]

I place the BR from BC racing in the same place as megans, isis, apex and various others, it has crappy hydraulics, crappy springs and crappy bump/rebound ratio. They all come from the same taiwanese factory, which produces a blank label product. Open a parts shop and they will find a way to contact you, so you can sell your own line of product. They always do.

You are satisfied by their price, but there is no way you could be satisfied with their performance unless you actually do not care about how the car handles. Try dynoing your springs, i bet no springs have the same spring rate, and that their spring rate changes a lot the further you compress them. Dynoing the dampers should provide the same inconsistent data.
It seems the op wants a working suspension, not just a cheap one. Build construction on BC-BR is ok, but that is all they have. The technical design itself is meh, at best.


@TheRealSy90 > i don't think they use the 500 series though. BC racing can make some good coilovers, but they are not at the same price than their BR line ;)

[nick Ritter]

I recall they also offer a 5year warranty, complete parts availability, with possible upgrades (better hydraulics, swift springs, bearing mounts, additionnal testing ...). That kind of service usually comes with a higher price tag.

wow a 5 year warranty !?!??!? that makes everything much more clear …. I've been using BC coils and tbh i think they are alright they perform well at the track and ride ok on the street….. I'm definitely going to check FA500's out

[S14DB]

I place the BR from BC racing in the same place as megans, isis, apex and various others, it has crappy hydraulics, crappy springs and crappy bump/rebound ratio. They all come from the same taiwanese factory, which produces a blank label product. Open a parts shop and they will find a way to contact you, so you can sell your own line of product. They always do.

You are satisfied by their price, but there is no way you could be satisfied with their performance unless you actually do not care about how the car handles. Try dynoing your springs, i bet no springs have the same spring rate, and that their spring rate changes a lot the further you compress them. Dynoing the dampers should provide the same inconsistent data.
It seems the op wants a working suspension, not just a cheap one. Build construction on BC-BR is ok, but that is all they have. The technical design itself is meh, at best.


@TheRealSy90 > i don't think they use the 500 series though. BC racing can make some good coilovers, but they are not at the same price than their BR line ;)
Where do you think FA's are made?

[TheRealSy90]

Pretty sure FA's are developed in the usa.

[S14DB]

Pretty sure FA's are developed in the usa.

:picardfp:

[bmaddock]

I place the BR from BC racing in the same place as megans, isis, apex and various others, it has crappy hydraulics, crappy springs and crappy bump/rebound ratio. They all come from the same taiwanese factory, which produces a blank label product.

It seems the op wants a working suspension, not just a cheap one.

Sure any coilover around $1000 performs about the same, just different color Taiwanese coilovers. There are some differences but for what OP seems to want... "I'm really just planning on it being a DD for now," the BC's are a good option I would recommend as I've had no problems with them through mostly DD use, the occasional track days and backroad cruises.

For that intended use, yes I am happy with their performance and I care how my car handles. I'll keep it at that, there are plenty of coilover threads for OP to read and get a better idea of what he wants to buy and the expected performance.

[TheRealSy90]

:picardfp:

"Fortune Auto is one of the few US based suspension companies that actually inspects, assembles and services shocks in the USA. Our shock assembly and service center uses a state of the art Roehrig 2VS shock dyno that helps us calibrate and match new shocks."

Paired with the swift springs upgrade, they're damn hard to beat.

As far as the housings and mount assemblies themselves, if they're made in taiwan, so what. They're still of a higher quality than everything else at that price point. It's not like Taiwain/China facilities can't make quality products, it's just not as common.

Before i'm called biased, I don't run them on my car.

[Silverbullet]

A set of koni yellows and some coilover sleeves is prob the most cost effective. Or a set of AGX and lowering springs.


a Koni set up will out perform any of the coilovers mentioned in this thread in terms of damping.

"Fortune Auto is one of the few US based suspension companies that actually inspects, assembles and services shocks in the USA.

All that is nice in terms of customer service is nice, but the dampers themselves are bought from a Taiwan company.

[e1_griego]

Yup, it will. Just not jdm blang blang enough.

Oh well.

[g35gabby]

"Fortune Auto is one of the few US based suspension companies that actually inspects, assembles and services shocks in the USA. Our shock assembly and service center uses a state of the art Roehrig 2VS shock dyno that helps us calibrate and match new shocks."

Paired with the swift springs upgrade, they're damn hard to beat.

As far as the housings and mount assemblies themselves, if they're made in taiwan, so what. They're still of a higher quality than everything else at that price point. It's not like Taiwain/China facilities can't make quality products, it's just not as common.

Before i'm called biased, I don't run them on my car.

BC is the same deal, their NA location is local, not 15 mins from me. Their parts and components aren't made locally, but they do assembly, service, and even custom components at their location locally. Have had a couple of friends unhappy with where their setup put them and they dropped their car off at BC and had them custom make components for them. I have known the owner (Paul) and head tech (Sam) since 2006. Great guys, and their entry level coils are pretty hard to beat bang for your buck wise. I would have gone that route had I not gotten such a great deal via GTR garage on my Trust coils on my R32 right now.

This doesn't sound like a car that is going to spend every weekend at the track or dedicated track slut so IMO the Fortune's, the BC's, and even the Megan tracks should all be worth considering. I would definitely go over to GTRgarage and see if they have anything lightly used from Zeal or Ohlin or something like that for a decent price, and also check out the Dmax stuff.

[TheRealSy90]

Or try and pick up a used set of DG-5 / GPSports from an importer.

[ZX88]

BC or PBM. I actually prefer the BC ones. Both are around $1000.

[Cloud_Strife]

Well.. I was planning on buying some barely used super drifts off a forum member for 875.. This is a good deal as they are about 1600 new. I'm gonna go ahead and get these for my basics then move up when the time comes. I usually don't buy used hydras but the guy has good rep and they look lightly used (as he's said).

[nick Ritter]

^ sounds like a hell of a deal to me ….

[spooled240]

The Feal coilovers are on sale right now through sonic motor for about 1200 bucks. They come with swift springs they are rebuildable here in CA.

[Cloud_Strife]

That's what I'm thinking! lol and of course Tein and their green are blang blang enough for me. I really appreciate all the tips on coils, I've just always gone with name brands and it's hard to find forum favorites since this is an old chassis and a lot of searched threads mention companies that neither make the product or have closed their doors!

Hope this helps some other people just getting into the game as well.

Once I plan on buying new stuff I'll probably look into the fortunes or the BCs. As far as the fortunes go, do they have to be acid/rave colors?

Thanks!

[e1_griego]

Sigh.

Offer rescinded.

You're on your own. Prob meet you at PARC soon enough.

(really though, if you want to get serious about building a good car, come hang out).

[jedi03]

Lol my pbm have lifetime warrantee too but do research an you can see what everyone is talking about. Be patient an wait for something affordable. ..I recommend save up for quality don't do work twice an waste your money if you can't afford it

[Ilya]

Are Bilstein GT3000 front inserts more preferred than koni yellow front inserts and why?

[e1_griego]

No, not necessarily.

The big problem with the 3000gt bilsteins is that the body of upper shaft where you mount the upper spring perch and camber plate has a 15mm OD. You can buy the GC camber plates and they'll sell you the right bits but that's $350, or making friends with a machinist who can help you come up with something. All of these setups should run some sort of radial bearing or thrust bearing and there's no cheap way to get something with 15mm ID.

This makes more sense once you get them and try to put them together. Ultimately koni is a lot more plug and play, and they're adjustable.

[Cloud_Strife]

I'm actually going to wait and get fortune 500s since griego made fun of me.

[s14SRguy]

powered by max competition coilovers (http://www.partsshopmax.com/page.php?23)

$1000 usd

buy the rest of their stuff while your at it.

[e1_griego]

Those aren't great either, but if you're being cheap and don't want assemble something then prob the best option.

Like I said, there will be a set for sale locally in the next few weeks.

[Cloud_Strife]

So you're saying that assembling something, you can't adjust them later?

[Ilya]

I had an entry level stance XR coilover. They were $1800. Not a fun set up. Firm? Yes. But I mainly drove it on the street and my stomach would drop each time I went over a crack on the freeway. Plus my wife would no longer ride with me.

But as you see, you cannot take someone word for the quality of the coilover, it's a very qualitative subject, you can't put a number on it. Best bet is to make friends with cars that have the said coilover and just go for a ride. What everyone DOES agree on is that a self built Koni setup is significantly better than any coilover for the $1000 it cost to build. That's what everyone means when they say assembling your own, building your own setup piece by peice instead of buying all of it put together already.

Mr griego that makes complete sense. Cost aside, which would you still chose since you have experience with both?

[Ilya]

The ride height of any coilover is not fun to adjust but it is doable. The reboud rate is just a simple twist of a knob. That is true for any coilover or koni setup

[bmaddock]

What everyone DOES agree on is that a self built Koni setup is significantly better than any coilover for the $1000 it cost to build. That's what everyone means when they say assembling your own, building your own setup piece by peice instead of buying all of it put together already.


I wish I knew about this before I bought my coilovers however many years ago. A lot of my miata friends do the Koni setup.

[claaasssiiiccc21]

for around 800$ you can get swift springs (which are the best spring makers ever, period)

LOL, no. Not sure what cheap crap you guys have in France but Swift springs are a B grade spring. Eibach is superior to swift by a longshot and Hyperco is superior to all. You don't see anything but Hyperco on a "real" racecar. One off tin top rice burners yes, but real racecars use Hyperco. Do yourself a favor and buy 10 sets of swifts, measure them, dyno them, and measure again. Rates are not consistent and the heights vary 1/4 inch (or ~6mm+). Then do the same with Hyperco, then you'll see why everyone uses them and why almost all of your Penske, Ohlin, and Dynamics dealers also sell those springs ONLY.

[e1_griego]

So you're saying that assembling something, you can't adjust them later?

I know you're just on a mission to troll instead of learn something, so it's not really worth replying...

I'm saying if you don't want to assemble something, FA is probably the way to go. The assembled setups (koni sports or bilsteins in stock housings) are superior shocks for the same money, but takes a bit of effort to put together.

Bilsteins aren't adjustable, Koni sports are. Mutually exclusive to what I'm talking about.

Cost aside, which would you still chose since you have experience with both?

I have 8611 setups in both my s13s because I like the double adjustable shock since I can get it to ride they way I want. I have done 3000gt bilsteins, 8610s and 8611s in my own cars, and for friends I have helped put together koni + lowering spring setups, agx + lowering spring setups, agx + coilover sleeve setups and then of course all the OTS assembled jdm colored hawtness. Hard to beat a koni yellow/ground control (or whatever sleeve) for the dollars. Generally they don't want to go as low as people want (you should drop the shock lowerin the stock housing to help fix this), but the ride is good.

A koni yellow/lowering spring setup with a upgraded sway bars front and rear is pretty excellent on the street though. A good friend of mine has been running his for a few years now in his DD that he uses for autox, and it's sort of the perfect mixed-use setup since the lots we have locally are pretty rough.

[tiggertsi]

i guess i will have to agree with everyone else about the FA500's. Good product, good customer service, good price, and good longevity.

with that being said ..........



A set of koni yellows and some coilover sleeves is prob the most cost effective. Or a set of AGX and lowering springs.


i definitely agree with this. i would love to swap back over to a good strut/shock and spring set like the agx's.

[Cloud_Strife]

I was focusing more on coilover sets because using a spring compressor scares the shit out of me. I've done it enough that I know what I'm doing but I hate it everytime. I guess I can get over it.

When you say putting koni yellows with lowering springs, what pairing of springs do you use? I noticed you referenced the 8611s and 10s, but I'm not exactly sure what a good spring set is.

As one of the previous posters talked about, I hate having a harsh ride. I don't want racing heart-sinking over potholes and not looking for riding on a cloud in a boat. Kind of middle ground. I usually don't even go below stock height when using coilovers, however I can go a bit lower; I just don't like slamming it.

[e1_griego]

Koni yellow = sport shock.

Koni 8610/11 = Race shock.

Yellows fit in stock housings. Koni 86s require a custom housing and are quite a bit spendier generally.

Usually lowering springs are short enough that you don't have to use a compressor to get them on. Or you can just run a coilover sleeve on it and the it's just like a coilover and not a lowering spring.

[Def]

I was focusing more on coilover sets because using a spring compressor scares the shit out of me. I've done it enough that I know what I'm doing but I hate it everytime. I guess I can get over it.

When you say putting koni yellows with lowering springs, what pairing of springs do you use? I noticed you referenced the 8611s and 10s, but I'm not exactly sure what a good spring set is.

As one of the previous posters talked about, I hate having a harsh ride. I don't want racing heart-sinking over potholes and not looking for riding on a cloud in a boat. Kind of middle ground. I usually don't even go below stock height when using coilovers, however I can go a bit lower; I just don't like slamming it.

Good luck not getting a harsh ride with the Taiwanese coilovers. The damping is HORRIBLE on all of them I've ever felt.

You can run Koni's, Bilsteins etc. and have "coilovers." The spring adjusts its height with a collar (which can actually stay where you put it unless my experience with the cheap collars on cheap Taiwanese coilovers).

[Croustibat]

LOL, no. Not sure what cheap crap you guys have in France but Swift springs are a B grade spring. Eibach is superior to swift by a longshot and Hyperco is superior to all. You don't see anything but Hyperco on a "real" racecar. One off tin top rice burners yes, but real racecars use Hyperco. Do yourself a favor and buy 10 sets of swifts, measure them, dyno them, and measure again. Rates are not consistent and the heights vary 1/4 inch (or ~6mm+). Then do the same with Hyperco, then you'll see why everyone uses them and why almost all of your Penske, Ohlin, and Dynamics dealers also sell those springs ONLY.

You are being overly aggressive, so do yourself a favor and tone down.

Someone did what you ask for, and his conclusion tends to be the swift springs are superior.
http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/suspension/157535-swift-springs-dynoed.html#post2539803

Considering racing history, this is a quick quote taken from the swift website.

In Swift’s impressive motor sports history dated back to 1998, first was with Nissan Skyline GT-R in the Super Taikyu Endurance championship series in Japan. Then Swift got involved with the championship teams in Le Mans 24hrs, Nurburgring 24hrs, Super GT (JGTC), Super Taikyu series, D-1 World Grand Prix, F3, F3000, Formula Toyota, and many other world class races.

In 2004, Team Goh Audi R8 won 1st place at the world renowned Le Mans 24hrs race on swift springs.

Besides, we are on zilvia. People here don't go pro racing with huge budget, so there goes the race comparison. No one here is willing to change his springs and dampers every race or so.

Finally, if you want me to answer again, tone down. I have nothing to say (nor hear) from an overly aggressive dog.

[S14DB]

LOL, no. Not sure what cheap crap you guys have in France but Swift springs are a B grade spring. Eibach is superior to swift by a longshot and Hyperco is superior to all. You don't see anything but Hyperco on a "real" racecar. One off tin top rice burners yes, but real racecars use Hyperco. Do yourself a favor and buy 10 sets of swifts, measure them, dyno them, and measure again. Rates are not consistent and the heights vary 1/4 inch (or ~6mm+). Then do the same with Hyperco, then you'll see why everyone uses them and why almost all of your Penske, Ohlin, and Dynamics dealers also sell those springs ONLY.
http://shop.penskeshocks.com/Coil-Springs/

Ohlin sells their own springs.

[Cloud_Strife]

Thanks for the link S14.

e1, I was reading this thread:

http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=270829&page=2

I know these are for the 8611 or 10s but I've heard people really like to pair the yellows with GCs.. Is this what you were gearing me towards? Seems like a lot of meticulous organization.

[e1_griego]

GC are just sleeves with springs. If you're feeling adventurous you can build your own, but GC is obviously simpler. Yellows are fine with some mild spring rates, under ~450#ish (that's 8k).

You can do whatever you want. If you feel like it's too complicated, just buy some Fortunes and call it. If ride quality is paramount, though, go with some softer rates and a decent shock and you'll be happy.

Like I said, you're welcome to come have dinner and learn a few things. Many things are easier to explain in person than on the internet.

[Cloud_Strife]

I think I'll try to grab those local FA's when they come up. Just trying to understand, thought I knew stuff but always learning.

Just a quick question, the higher the spring rate the softer the ride?

[Croustibat]

The better the spring and hydraulics, the softer the ride. You WILL get a harsh ride with even the softest springs if they are made of poo.

If build quality and hydraulics settings are adequate, the lower the spring rate the softer the ride.

[Cloud_Strife]

The better the spring and hydraulics, the softer the ride. You WILL get a harsh ride with even the softest springs if they are made of poo.

If build quality and hydraulics settings are adequate, the lower the spring rate the softer the ride.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up Croustibat. I actually thought the softer the ride the worse the hydraulics for some reason.

[Javi802]

Hey, El griego, how much did the koni setup you're running cost you?

[e1_griego]

861x koni race setups run around $2k-2500 by the time you're done.

A set of yellows and GC sleeves is about $1k once you add in camber plates and rear upper spherical mounts.

[TheNigguh_Danny]

The suspension you have now is better than any sub $1200 of the shelf coilover you can buy. Yes your car is high and sways when you turn, but a shitty coilover handles even worse. Plus any girl you drive in your car more than once on your "Entry Level" coilover will decide that she wants to drive her self or she will pick YOU up, ask me how I know.

LMAO this is very true about the girl thing

[Javi802]

Damn, thats a lot lol.

Do you know the part number for the rears i would need if i were to use the 8610? And are the just bolt on and go? I read about installing the fronts and that seems fairly simple, just not sure which rears to get and whether they bolt right up

[Cloud_Strife]

2k-2500 is a lot for a mid-high level suspension? I think that's a steal for something that is confirmed to last and handle wonderfully.

Still don't know how the hell you assemble them lol.

[Croustibat]

The 8610/8611 are superior to the FA500 (worth twice as much too). They are race materials so haver lower stiction seals. It does a better job, but it means the seals wear out faster, so frequent rebuild if they are used on the road. That is the price to pay for this kind of material. For a race car i guess it is ok. For a street car ... meh.

BTW is 165$ a normal price for a 8610 insert ? That is the current price on amazon. the 8611 is in the 400$ range.

[e1_griego]

Yeah, the prices for 8610s came down, but I haven't seen them cheap like that anywhere but amazon.

I have never had an 86* let go, but i've seen maybe one or two others fail in other people's cars. I'm dailying on 11s now and I can't imagine they'll wear out soon.

Step by step build here: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=270829


8610-1436 or 8611-1257 are the short ones that work in the Veilside180sx housings.

And I would take a koni yellow setup over FA stuff, too, fwiw. If you have an s14 then then bilstein 3000gt shocks all around is the way to go, imo.

[S14DB]

To bad he only does 300zx rears now.

[e1_griego]

That's pretty much all he's done forever. I think i've only seen a couple sets for s13/s14 spindles. And really, he's all but stopped making housings anyway.

[Cloud_Strife]

Blah, that's so lame. I mean it's bound to happen. People doing awesome things like that out of the goodness of their hearts doesn't last (money too I guess :)

If you don't have those housings, if I remember correctly, you just can't have monster truck tires right?

[e1_griego]

The konis don't fit in stock housings ie. it's not possible without some sort of custom housing.

[Cloud_Strife]

I didn't realize it was a deal breaker. So I'm assuming people just buy these custom housings second hand. Is there another option?

Eh, wait a min. These custom housings are for the 8610's and 11's correct? So the cheaper "sports" still need some sort of custom housing or?

[e1_griego]

Not really, besides building your own. There might be some older JDM teins or JICs that you can gut and stuff, but most of the shock housings are too short to have a koni fit.

I wouldn't really worry about going 861x right off the bat, anyway. It's overkill for just driving around on the street.

[Cloud_Strife]

Sorry about that, edited my post right after you answered. I would like to get the sports starting out, did you say those didn't need custom housings?

[e1_griego]

The yellows go into stock housings in the front, and are a full replacement shock in the rear.

AGXs are full replacement shocks front and rear.

[Javi802]

are the koni yellows not the 8610?

What are the yellows? I looked on Konis website and they only offer one set for the s13. Under their vehicle search anyways.

Im new to shocks/springs and plan on only daily driving my car. No superjdmtightdrifting for me. With the occasional taking corners fast. But i do want something good

[e1_griego]

Koni 8610 and 8611 are universal race shocks.

Koni yellow = koni sport. These are actually designed for for s13.

[Cloud_Strife]

I'm not new to shocks springs, but I'm new to doing things the right way lol.

I've time attacked and it's pretty fun, never superjdmdrifted but I'd like to learn. From what I hear going sideways you don't need a million dollar suspension; seems like common sense.

Time attacks though, especially mountain terrain.. Yeah I'd try and do the best I can. Everything matters from tread wear, tires, suspension, brakes, the whole nine yards. knowing exactly where you are after the run and prior to. I've done it in my stock integra (am I allowed to say that word here) and after I put some money into it.. huge difference.

Javi where are you located?

[rebornS14]

function and form

BBFTB

[Croustibat]

Yeah, the prices for 8610s came down, but I haven't seen them cheap like that anywhere but amazon.

I have never had an 86* let go, but i've seen maybe one or two others fail in other people's cars. I'm dailying on 11s now and I can't imagine they'll wear out soon.

Step by step build here: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=270829


8610-1436 or 8611-1257 are the short ones that work in the Veilside180sx housings.

And I would take a koni yellow setup over FA stuff, too, fwiw. If you have an s14 then then bilstein 3000gt shocks all around is the way to go, imo.

I had koni yellows. Maybe that was caused by poor springs, but i never felt they were any good.

[e1_griego]

I've had them with lowering springs and with sleeves. It's not an amazing setup, but the ride quality is better than the taiwanese offerings.

I think what everyone forgets is that suspension choice is completely dependent on what you're going to do with the car. If you're just daily driving, there's no reason to go nuts with spring rates. If you're going to have a mixed use car, then sure. But my generally philosophy is that a good riding car is a good handling car, especially if you're running north of 300-400# springs.

This is all just my experience, not saying it's gospel or anything else. I've ridden in, driven, and owned quite a few different setups and figured out what I like, and what works for me given how I use my cars. Every other suspension thread on here devolves into "OMG [BC/PBM/Stance/FA/etc] are the BEST!" and I just prefer buying shocks with real R&D.

[claaasssiiiccc21]

You are being overly aggressive, so do yourself a favor and tone down.

Someone did what you ask for, and his conclusion tends to be the swift springs are superior.
http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/suspension/157535-swift-springs-dynoed.html#post2539803

Considering racing history, this is a quick quote taken from the swift website.


Besides, we are on zilvia. People here don't go pro racing with huge budget, so there goes the race comparison. No one here is willing to change his springs and dampers every race or so.

Finally, if you want me to answer again, tone down. I have nothing to say (nor hear) from an overly aggressive dog.

No one asked for a response from you, however if you did any research on the company's racing history you will find that "Hyperco Springs have been utilized on every Indianapolis 500 winning racecar since 1965" Which leads me and all other reputable auto racing sources to conclude their springs are of much higher quality than a company formed in 1998 to build cheaply made GT car springs.

Secondly, no matter the budget, the springs are all within a small price margin, so most or all of us would like to get the best spring for our money. Considering Hypercoils are priced car more reasonably than a drift-taxed swift spring, and perform better, there seems to be an obvious winner to the most casual of observers.

Third, I've been involved in professional level motorsports for well over a decade and not even the highest levels of motorsports are springs and dampers changed every race. Springs last quite some time, as do the shocks as long as nothing is damaged in crashes. Obviously going to different circuits will require different valving, but in the vast majority of high level racing, the shocks are spec and cannot be opened or revalved. The springs last at least 4 full seasons of harsh racing, and usually by that time the car is phased out so who knows how long they last.

Fourth, your link shows an older fine coil Hypercoil spring, which had to be at least a decade old in comparison to the newer technology coarse coil swift spring (which now all major spring manufacturers have been carrying since ~2006). This comparison of apples and oranges does not give much valid insight. However the various upper level racing damper manufacturers and engineers I have dealt with over the years where money is not an object all seem to have a common opinion of spring superiority.

The aggressive response was in response to your aggressive posts claiming your opinions to be canon. Judging by your responses there is no doubt you have experience with GT type cars or some type of production based car racing, however this is far from a niche of racing credible of making these "by far the best spring" claims.

Take a look at this link and check out the carbon bellows, you will be intrigued if you are as much of a suspension guru as claimed. http://www.hypercoils.com
http://shop.penskeshocks.com/Coil-Springs/

Ohlin sells their own springs.

The link you posted is a link to Penske shocks selling Hyperco springs. Ohlins only sells motorcycle springs, they do not make springs for automotive motorsports, only shocks.

To get this thread back on track, the OP is looking for an ENTRY LEVEL coilover, he is not looking to get a track quality coilover with infinitely linear valving adjustment as he will likely never even adjust the shocks if they perform well enough out of the box with fixed valving. Seeing that he wants the car lowered slightly, there seems no reason to discredit cheaper eBay coilovers. I have driven on $40,000 dynamics cheapo eBay $400 Godspeeds, and many Penske, Ohlins, Stance, Megan, etc that fill the spread, and the fact is for daily banging around on city streets with the occasional drag race from a stoplight, to a drift event on the infield of a small oval, the cheapo Godspeeds or EMUSA coilovers are fine and WILL NOT blow if properly taken care of. Don't lower the car to the point of it having 1 inch left of compression before the shocks bottom out, its not like the car will have any grip at that point anyway and obviously will ride like $hit with the pistons bottoming out on every bump.

[Cloud_Strife]

The thing is I currently have stock with ( what I assume is ) an aftermarket coil set.

It looks horrible, maybe I should get a pic, but I'd really like to solve that.

However, as another poster mentioned the stock system will probably ride better (in terms of feeling everything) than most ebay or taiwan coilovers (although I would assume a suspension from 1989 is blown even if owner #2 was a mechanic).
And, I'd have to agree with him as I currently have Teins in my other car and the feel is just pure horrible. Sure, I don't feel like my car will roll over and overall feel is tighter, however everything is felt.

With that in mind, I would think of maybe just getting some stock or cheap aftermarket springs, take it apart and replace those.
Howeverrr, I would rather just stick with the best possible setup for under 1500. As stated I'm not looking to get into circuits, just DD and eventually find some good mountain courses.

So the other option would just be patient and love my car the way it is and get the koni yellow/ coils or sleeve option, or the agx. This seems to be a recurring go-to for many intelligent enthusiasts who know BBFTB.

Also, from my experience with coilovers, if you get cheap things they will not fit properly. Most of those Ebay coilovers are generic in nature and upon recieving them, I wouldn't want to find out I needed a part in excess that I didn't have; thus defeating the whole shock in a box idea. Mostly this stems from getting totally screwed when I installed my Teins. I found I needed the brake hose brackets, not just for mounting lines, but for complete fitment so that the seating of the bottom didn't have a gap and could be secured. So, I ended up having to track down the original brackets on ebay (OEM dealers did not have the bracket as a separate item, but as a complete shock assembly) since Hawaii only had one junkyard and finding those cars was hard enough.

That was the bottom of the barrel for a named company, so I feel ordering from the people's republic would harbor just as much fun.

I dunno, but I sure as hell have learned a lot already from the thread.

[Croustibat]

As far as suspension goes, do not forget about worn bushes. If the car is stock, suspension bushes are likely shot and no amount of money spent on coilovers will fix that. Similarly, a working suspension with quality dampers and springs but crappy tyres will still be inferior to an unmoving suspension with sticky tyres. Keep it it mind. I know there are more tyre options in the US (like nitto tyres), which we don't get here.
A very nice $$/handling tyre we can get here is the federal RSR. We can get it in 235/40/17 for less than 100€ per tyre; it has less grip than R888s, but not that much, and can take way more abuse as it is better suited to heavier cars. They also last twice as long usually, if not more.

The first bushes to go are usually the FLCA and front caster arm ones. If you can weld, you could replace them with ball joint end for cheap. Whatever you do, don't press PU bushes there. You may want to visit the NRR forums and the suspension thread ( http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=296725 ), it will help a lot to see what your options are.

[Cloud_Strife]

Thanks for the suspension suggestion. I do understand the importance of everything from tires to ball joints. I know I will need to fix those as well, I usually just try to replace the whole part as I never mess with welding or trying to press individual bushings into joints.

That definitely looks like a well thought out thread, I will have to take a look at it!

My favorite tire BBFB is the Goodyear G force(all season

[S14DB]

No one asked for a response from you
http://i.lvme.me/v8ccqht.jpg
The link you posted is a link to Penske shocks selling Hyperco springs. Ohlins only sells motorcycle springs, they do not make springs for automotive motorsports, only shocks.
I highlighted the fact that you said Penske and Ohlins ONLY sell Hyperco. I knew this wasn't true cause we ran Eibach springs on Penske shocks in ALMS.
To get this thread back on track, the OP is looking for an ENTRY LEVEL coilover, he is not looking to get a track quality coilover with infinitely linear valving adjustment as he will likely never even adjust the shocks if they perform well enough out of the box with fixed valving. Seeing that he wants the car lowered slightly, there seems no reason to discredit cheaper eBay coilovers. I have driven on $40,000 dynamics cheapo eBay $400 Godspeeds, and many Penske, Ohlins, Stance, Megan, etc that fill the spread, and the fact is for daily banging around on city streets with the occasional drag race from a stoplight, to a drift event on the infield of a small oval, the cheapo Godspeeds or EMUSA coilovers are fine and WILL NOT blow if properly taken care of. Don't lower the car to the point of it having 1 inch left of compression before the shocks bottom out, its not like the car will have any grip at that point anyway and obviously will ride like $hit with the pistons bottoming out on every bump.
We have not been talking about bottoming out or blowing here. We are talking about the dampers on cheap coilovers not being able to control the spring. Hence the discussion about being too bouncy or stiff.
At the $400 price point shocks and springs will be better than any cheap coilover.

[Cloud_Strife]

http://s3.postimg.org/b6ixbeedb/IMG_1177.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/b6ixbeedb/)

Hard to see, but please someone don't tell me this is stock height.

I looked at examples of stock shocks and my shocks and they look identical. the springs are the same count, and the strut can't raise so-- what am I missing here?

Oh yeah and I can't stop laughing at the old lady pic

[S14DB]

Measure from the top of the wheel arch to the ground.

[Cloud_Strife]

H-hai!!

Ma-wari ni 26 1/2"

[Cloud_Strife]

So is that stock height or?

[Melonburst]

Stance GR Super Sports are affordable and best in class.

[e1_griego]

Looks like stock height.

[Ilya]

Stance and "best in _____" should never be used in the same sentence....

[Javi802]

El griego, sorry if I'm asking a question that has been answered before. Im a newb when it comes to suspension.

Are the koni yellows worth it to you? I see you have had them, but said they weren't an amazing setup. With lowering springs at least.

Was it just the combo that you had?

[e1_griego]

I prefer stiffer springs and lower ride height than what a yellow will deal with.

My friend has the setup now and for mixed-use daily driving and some occasional autocross they're perfect.

I like to run r-comps which means a lowering spring is going to be too soft. With upgraded sway bars and some lowering springs it's a nice sporty setup which pairs fine for a mediocre street tire (ss595 and the like).

Like I said elsewhere, suspension should be built depending on how you want to use the car. Fortunately for s13s, if you buy something and don't love it there is a phenomenal used parts market which means you can sell something without taking too much of a loss, if any.

[Javi802]

I want to be lower, but i don't want to have to slow down to 15mph to go over a railroad track lol. By lower, i mean enough of a drop to leave just a little gap between the fenders and the tires.

I also want to be able to take sharp corners somewhat quickly without it feeling like a boat.

I really just want my car to hug the road when i feel like it. Don't want to feel every bump in existence... As well as the car not looking like it has a lift kit.

Not a drifting car at all. Maybe the occasional slide when ever it rains, but other than that no drifting.

[Cloud_Strife]

To me, anything aesthetically pleasing enough to be considered low enough meant that I would have to still cut across speed bumps in order to not shave my bumper.

Unless I was at something around stock height I didn't have to do it. And even at stock height there are stupid steep angles the city makes on things like exits from outlet malls onto a main st. that will tear your car up regardless.

Either way I think you would want to start out with adjustable until you get the exact ride height you feel comfortable with.

[jedi03]

Just get aggressive shock with drop spring an you will be happy. This is really old setup I believe was h & r with Tokico blues. I paid 400 for the whole setup new. Drove great not to aggressive and could pass over everything without issue.

[Croustibat]

I want to be lower, but i don't want to have to slow down to 15mph to go over a railroad track lol. By lower, i mean enough of a drop to leave just a little gap between the fenders and the tires.

I also want to be able to take sharp corners somewhat quickly without it feeling like a boat.

I really just want my car to hug the road when i feel like it. Don't want to feel every bump in existence... As well as the car not looking like it has a lift kit.

Not a drifting car at all. Maybe the occasional slide when ever it rains, but other than that no drifting.

Simply put, you can't. You bought the wrong car., next time buy a mc laren P1.

Sarcasm aside, that is too low if you want the car to handle and not scrape its frame rails ont the ground.
Unless you start using bigger overall diameter tyres to fill the gap, but that means messing the suspension even more You are going to need drop knuckles with serious geometry correction. If you want confort and not feel every bump, then you are going to need quality dampers and springs, eventually active damping. You are looking at a 6000-9000$ price tag on suspension parts alone.

Or you could just do like every ricer around and fit 300$ coilovers, they will feel like shite but go very low. And THEN convince yourself it handles well and is comfortable.
Don't worry, most people on zilvia have this approach. They just don't want to admit it, but the hate this post is going to create will be enough to show it is true :D

[Javi802]

Well, i actually just sold all of my adjustable suspension parts and replaced it all with stock stuff.
pbm flca/tension rods, pbm rucas, pbm toe rods and some cxracing coilovers.

Im done with the drifting shit. Just want to be at a nice height, not slammed as i was before.

Im definitely leaning towards koni yellows. Now i just need to decide which springs

[Javi802]

I did tires on a p1 at my work. Thing is awesome.

I'd spend the 1.2 million differently, though. lol

[Cloud_Strife]

Just get aggressive shock with drop spring an you will be happy. This is really old setup I believe was h & r with Tokico blues. I paid 400 for the whole setup new. Drove great not to aggressive and could pass over everything without issue.

Why are the stock shocks always higher in the front and lower in the rear?

I can fathom why however I wouldn't think from the factory it would come like that.. Mine are like that as well.

[e1_griego]

The fender arches are higher in the front vs the rear to begin with.

[Croustibat]

Why are the stock shocks always higher in the front and lower in the rear?

I can fathom why however I wouldn't think from the factory it would come like that.. Mine are like that as well.

Because the wheels need to turn in the front, not in the back ...

[Cloud_Strife]

Well I can see that, I just haven't had a car that was like that. I've had lots of japanese cars.. Am I missing something?

[winter]

Not going to BS you, but having worked with MFG overseas in Taiwan I can tell you A LOT of the companies all work out of the same factory. I will not put them on blast but it will definitely surprise you. It's not hard to figure out if you just look at their products and put other products side by side...Just going to throw that out there.

[SaUcEy]

I was happy with the BC coils on my car. Got them $800 shipped on sale a few years back. Really no complaints. Been through track days, hard driving, daily driving over 2.5 years. (though Im not stupid low)


That said? Ill certainly go Fortune auto next. The customer service, knowledgeable staff, nice warranty and upgrade-ability of the units make them a great deal at the price. I was very happy with the quality of the unit in my hands too.

[Cloud_Strife]

800 shipped for just the coils?

[Erollin]

That's what I'm thinking! lol and of course Tein and their green are blang blang enough for me. I really appreciate all the tips on coils, I've just always gone with name brands and it's hard to find forum favorites since this is an old chassis and a lot of searched threads mention companies that neither make the product or have closed their doors!

Hope this helps some other people just getting into the game as well.

Once I plan on buying new stuff I'll probably look into the fortunes or the BCs. As far as the fortunes go, do they have to be acid/rave colors?

Thanks!

I like the Tein's.
I ordered Tein basic coilovers for my Z from furiouscustoms. They are currently having a special on any Kontrol, Ksport, Cobb Tuning and the Tein's I ordered. The site was easy to use and I received my order in 1-week. I am happy with the product, the site, and their customer service.
It might be worthwhile to check them out if you are in the market.


.

[cmartin240]

Does anyone have any experience with the Tein BASIS (not basic) coilovers? They are claimed to be designed for daily drivers and I want a comfortable coilover; aka something that rides similar to an OEM tuned sports car (STI, M, Z, Vette, etc). I have had the Megan Street coilovers for about 6 years now and I cannot tolerate how stiff they are anymore. They are unstable on rough (normal street) surfaces and uncomfortable (softest damper setting and zero spring preload). I requested the shock dyno graphs from Tein for the Basis, but they actually charge $50 per front and rear shock. Kidding me? Megan has graphs right on their website. I changed the Megans to 6kg and 5.3kg springs, but they are still too stiff so I'm blaming the damper. Tein BASIS info anyone? (1991 240sx)

[e1_griego]

It's just a different color, subpar JDM shock.

Buy real dampers, get good ride quality.

Pretty simple.

[cmartin240]

Since when is Tein not a "real" aftermarket suspension manufacturer? The Basis is entry level; as in not designed exclusively for racing, doesn't have preload or damper adjustment, and has streetable spring rates/dampers. This doesn't mean it is of any less quality and I would trust they engineered the shock and spring to work properly together as is. The consumer doesn't need to be screwing it up. You completely tossed out your credibility by saying "real" dampers = good ride quality. Coilover comfort is determined by its designated purpose, not quality. The Basis is the only coilover I have found for the 240sx intended for daily driving. Anyone with some knowledgeable input on these?

[Croustibat]

Since when is Tein not a "real" aftermarket suspension manufacturer? The Basis is entry level; as in not designed exclusively for racing, doesn't have preload or damper adjustment, and has streetable spring rates/dampers. This doesn't mean it is of any less quality and I would trust they engineered the shock and spring to work properly together as is. The consumer doesn't need to be screwing it up. You completely tossed out your credibility by saying "real" dampers = good ride quality. Coilover comfort is determined by its designated purpose, not quality. The Basis is the only coilover I have found for the 240sx intended for daily driving. Anyone with some knowledgeable input on these?

They are crap. Tein DOES produce good stuff, but not at this price tag, just like everyone else. Good-ish from tein starts at the mono/flex. Nothing under them is worth it if you value tyre compliance and comfort.

Good working coilover for cheap = FA500, basically. It is said swift springs make them even better but i can't say, didn't try it.

If you want a comfy ride without that price tag, swift spring + standard strut damper is a good way to go.