understeer

[zdude]

say im accelerating around a corner, not too fast, but just gettin back up to speed. if i start to accelerate faster, my 240 understeers. i think its because of my shatty tires, or crappy suspension. but i was wondering if anyone had any other ideas as to why my FR understeers

[aa87]

On drift bible, which is JDM MADDD TYTE, Keiichi says S13's tend to have alot of understeer, and the way to correct it are a set of Kei office coilovers. (JDM) :ghey:

[IngS14]

really? :hammer:

[rewplayff]

have an lsd? not putting enough load on the front tires? too much load? what?! no... is this a joke? are there people now laughing at me. i'm so tired. goodnite

[420sx]

drift bible is homosexual. :squintd:

[Andrew Bohan]

push in the clutch and yank the e-brake. boom! no more understeer
and get some better tires

[MakotoS13]

a list of suspension mods you have MIGHT help us but since you gave us hardly any information from your very vague post you'll prolly just end up getting made fun of.

here's what you do. get 18's in the front, 17's in the rear, tighten up the rear a whole lot... good bye understeer :)

[TheSnail]

Get super softs for the front, and hard compound for the rear. Buy the 2way diff, and turn off TCS.

[ciGARRETTsRbad4u]

Get a silvia conversion.

[WilloW]

Click here ----->UNDERSTEER AND DRIVING INFO (http://nsxprime.com/FAQ/Track/highperfdriving.htm) :D

[sykikchimp]

all stock 240's understeer...

[OptionZero]

but isn't the s14 more prone to oversteer than an s13? this from events at autocrossing while watching a stock s14 w/ no LSD

[cdlong]

say im accelerating around a corner, not too fast, but just gettin back up to speed. if i start to accelerate faster, my 240 understeers. i think its because of my shatty tires, or crappy suspension. but i was wondering if anyone had any other ideas as to why my FR understeers

because your car obeys the laws of physics just like everyone else.

[TurDz]

but isn't the s14 more prone to oversteer than an s13? this from events at autocrossing while watching a stock s14 w/ no LSD

I wouldn't say more prone to oversteer, but a bit more neutral.

As for the auto-x event we were at...I thinkn a lot has to do with our tire pressures and the amount of grip we had on our tires. I'm actually pretty happy with my setup. maybe just a bit more understeer would help on the exit of a turn.

[No Motiv]

I hate how he tears up the s13 in the drift bible.....hes like S14 is sooo much better....where's the love for the poor and older school

[zdude]

ok, so my car understeers by obeying the laws of physics, but why does my friends rr handle like its on rails, it has no weight up front, mines got a 6-700?? pound engine... i have eibach sportlines btw, so its not completely stock. however, the jack ass that put the sportlines in(previous owner) didnt up grade the shocks, so that may be the problem. im really startin to lean toward the tires, and maybe i can get a strut bar for the rear... thanks

[dct223]

Get a sway bar kit... helps the understeer dramaticly

[zdude]

spanks :D

[HaLo]

IF it handles like rails, it probably isn't driving fast enough...

[zdude]

lets say i can take the same corner same speed, and die... it is a fiero tho and they handle quite nice for stock platforms...i dont know why but maybe its cuz of the nearly square wheel pattern they have, and their low center of gravity.


cant wait till hes done with his 3.4 monte carlo swap w/ new stage 2 clutch short throw shifter, high performance tires, strut bar and sway bars, suspension.......... yeah, hes got everything but the swap now, and hes done with that, just has to knock out the security system that keeps his car from running more than three seconds... :hyper: anywho, :blah:

[OptionZero]

is'nt a Fiero "MR" not RR?

Question for everyone, since this is a handling thread:

Is it true that its better to adjust spring rates and dampening to affect weight transfer from front to back and to adjust sway bars/anti-roll bars to affect body roll?

The reason I ask: the rear end was coming out quite a bit during my first AutoX, i realize its mostly driver not adequately experience in turning, but if i wanted to cure that "oversteerness"...should i up the dampening rate in back?

I know that stiffer overall = better to kill body roll (left right), but I also know softer rate in back = more grip in back = less oversteer. These are contradicting maxims.

Obviously, it'd be great if i could throw on strut and sway bars front and back, make the WHOLE CAR stiffer, then simply play with spring rates to get a nice balance of forward/backward weight transfer...but since I can only change my dampening rates and tire pressure right now....what should i do?

Right now I have 40psi tires all 4 corners, KYB AGX's (RS-R sus down springs) on 3/4th fronts, and 4/8ths rear. I'm thinking of cutting 5 psi from the tires and dropping down to 3/8ths rear, but i'm afraid it'll be TOO soft in back now...

Yes, I know, trial and error works and i'll certainly try and error next autoX, but...from a purely theoretically standpoint...whats the deal?

[TurDz]

Jon, you said so yourself that your tires are pretty worn. I'm thinking it's just tires, your technique in your turns, and lastly, the pressure/dampening of your tires and struts.

[zdude]

yeah actually it is mr, but all the weight is still on the rear half of the car

[thx247]

I would try to increase spring rates before you try and limit roll with a sway bar. Heavier rates will decrease roll without compromising independence between suspension arms. Use the sway bar to make final tweaks to the car, but not to "fix" roll.

[OptionZero]

Thanks thx...but...guys


Should i increase dampening at all 4 corners to make the car stiffer overall, or keep softening the rear to get more grip in back, or ...perhaps dampening at all 4, but just alot more in front and lose tire pressure in back?

[sykikchimp]

Some general rules (there are exceptions to all of them, but these are the focul points)

Tire pressures should be a function of Wear. Depending on how the tire is wearing will tell you what your tire pressures should be.

Damping should be based on the spring rate, and controlling ocillations in the springs.

Springs should be stiff enough to combat roll, but light enough to absorb the largest bump you expect to encounter so the tire doesn't skip over it.

anti-roll bars should be used to tune balance. This is why I always suggest whiteline bars, since they are the only adjustable bars available.

---Now with that said---

OptionZero - because of the limited setup options... I would keep the damping as low as possible to the point that your car isn't having ocillation problems. As in, turn hard into a corner, and the car has a 'bounce' to it as it settles in. This is too soft. Or, if you hit a bump, and it causes the corner to skate.. this is too hard.

Tune your handling with your tire pressures. Check to make sure all pressure's are equal before hitting the course. When you come off course, imedtiately check pressures again, and record. Hot pressure's are what you want to know. depending on how the temps look, you can see which part of the car is getting the most workout, and where you need the most grip. If the right rear has a higher pressure than the other three, then it needs more grip. What you will usually find is a gradient. Say the car is oversteering on a counterclockwise course. The front left will have the lowest pressure, and the front right, and rear left will be close to the same. The rear right will be higher pressure than all the others. The simple way to get better balance is equalize your hot pressures. Reduce the highest pressure tires to the same psi of the lowest pressure tire. So if FL=42psi FR=44psi RL = 43psi RR=45psi reduce all 4 to 42psi hot. Then try it.

Because of the change in all pressures, sometimes you will find the handling dynamic changes quite a bit, and may require multiple adjustments. To do this properly, you need a quality tire pressure gauge that read in 1/2lb increments, and has a relief valve built into it so you can reduce pressure without removing the chuck. Sometimes a 1/2psi in 1 tire can make the difference your looking for.

obviously not the end all be all of setup, but a good general direction.

charles
p.s. two things I repeat to myself over and over why waiting to go on track, and while on track.. "Look UP, .. be Quick but Smooth"

[OptionZero]

Whoa, thats totally awesome, thanks, i had never heard of that way to adjust tire pressure.

I also can attest to that looking up part, cuz we saw this dude in a z3 tear up the course, but the most distinctive part of his runs was that he very noticeably lifted his head and looked ahead a turn or two, even as he was driving because his driving was so sure and confident, he had faith in where his car was going he could afford to take his eyes off the immediate course ahead of him and check ahead and plan according to where he was...it was fuckin genius

Itching to go back to the track now...