Diff questions.

[HORShi]

Okay, So I was under my car checking and making sure the flywheel is torque down, because I'm getting ready to install my new transmission...I noticed I had a NON-ABS diff case.

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q760/horakitashi/Mobile%20Uploads/20141020_131231_zpsffjiqeir.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/horakitashi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20141020_131231_zpsffjiqeir.jpg.html)

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q760/horakitashi/Mobile%20Uploads/20141020_131244_zpsbzzx6k6o.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/horakitashi/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20141020_131244_zpsbzzx6k6o.jpg.html)

Now the car has LSD, and I believe VLSD.

But can you put a VLSD into the Non ABS diff pumpkin? I had to get the driveshaft cut because it was too long. But since I have a NON-ABS diff, shouldn't the driveshaft been the right size since it's a NON-ABS diff?

[ultimateirving]

Ok well yes the vlsd will fit in a non abs pumpkin.
if the driveshaft was a non abs driveshaft it should fit without modification. Why you had to trim it I can't be sure.
What transmission are you putting in?

[HORShi]

Ok well yes the vlsd will fit in a non abs pumpkin.
if the driveshaft was a non abs driveshaft it should fit without modification. Why you had to trim it I can't be sure.
What transmission are you putting in?

I'm putting in a fresh rebuilt KA tranny in, and I thought so...

Because the driveshaft was way too long for the NON ABS diff and I know the ABS drive shaft is shorter than the NON ABS so I know that for sure can't be right. I had to get about an inch cut off for it fit properly. Is it because of the VLSD output shafts? (I have already did the modification and it works fine, but I was just reflecting back and wondering why I had to cut, since it should had been the right size. Idk, I though this was extremely weird)

Also, do I need to change the output shafts (change to open diff output shafts) to run a welded diff?

I've been contemplating about saving up and running a proper 2 way, but if I don't have to change output shafts for the welded and can just drop it in, I'll do that temporarily to slide for fun. If not, I rather just wait and save, because sourcing another Non ABS Open Diff probably would be difficult or sourcing the right output shafts would be.

Thanks @ultimateirving and whoever can help me out.

[jr_ss]

You could get a VLSD without having ABS. They were all options, not a package. Yes, a lot of cars that had a VLSD happened to have ABS, but that's not the case for every car.

If you don't have a VLSD, just weld it as is. If you have a VLSD, you need to swap diff's or atleast the guts. You cannot weld a VLSD.

[HORShi]

You could get a VLSD without having ABS. They were all options, not a package. Yes, a lot of cars that had a VLSD happened to have ABS, but that's not the case for every car.

If you don't have a VLSD, just weld it as is. If you have a VLSD, you need to swap diff's or atleast the guts. You cannot weld a VLSD.

Thanks man, I appreciate the response and information that I didn't know previously. I kind of figure that I would I have to swap the internals out. But I just wanted to verify.

I think I'm honestly going to just get a 2 way, since I will be dailying it too after this winter is over. I think that would be slightly more forgiving than welded. Idk, I'll research more on a welded and compare to a 2 way for DD/weekend drift.

Thanks once again to the both of y'all. Greatly appreciate it.

[ultimateirving]

Thanks man, I appreciate the response and information that I didn't know previously. I kind of figure that I would I have to swap the internals out. But I just wanted to verify.

I think I'm honestly going to just get a 2 way, since I will be dailying it too after this winter is over. I think that would be slightly more forgiving than welded. Idk, I'll research more on a welded and compare to a 2 way for DD/weekend drift.

Thanks once again to the both of y'all. Greatly appreciate it.

2 way will undoubtedly be better than a welded. Especially for a car driven on the streets. It's the price that deters most people. And a 2way is on my list of things to buy. The list just happens to be very very long

[HORShi]

2 way will undoubtedly be better than a welded. Especially for a car driven on the streets. It's the price that deters most people. And a 2way is on my list of things to buy. The list just happens to be very very long

Haha I give you that. 2-Way is expensive as hell. But after doing a little bit of searching, I don't like the unnecessary problems that comes with a welded, plus like you said, streetability definitely sways more towards the 2 way. I rather do it right the first time and save up and have a unit that's actually meant for my goals then a quick fix that can put unnecessary wear and tear on my car. Tomei looks like it's the "cheapest" compared to the rest. Plus I heard a lot of good things about Tomei, and can be serviced here in the states like Kaaz.

I really would love to have an OS Giken LSD...but damn, that price is up there! lol.

[yuhanbang]

They were all options, not a package. Yes, a lot of cars that had a VLSD happened to have ABS, but that's not the case for every car.http://goo.gl/6OBlWi

[e1_griego]

If you just want a good lsd for daily driving, get a helical. Silent operation, no clunks/pops/skittering tires etc. They don't lock, so not great for drifting, but they are like driving an open diff.

The giken lsd also drives like an open diff with no chattering or clunks from the diff. Highly recommended if you can afford it.

[Kingtal0n]

Yeah I dont know why people say 2-way is "street able". Either they have never owned one or their definition of "streetable" is far different from mine.

The 2-way I know makes an awful noise when it slips. Louder than your average exhaust system, and that begets my point that for my definition of "streetable" also includes OEM-noise level exhaust.

[e1_griego]

Very much agreed.

Giken is the only exception that I know of, but I haven't driven/ridden in an ATS Carbon.

[ultimateirving]

Yeah I dont know why people say 2-way is "street able". Either they have never owned one or their definition of "streetable" is far different from mine.

The 2-way I know makes an awful noise when it slips. Louder than your average exhaust system, and that begets my point that for my definition of "streetable" also includes OEM-noise level exhaust.

I was comparing to a welded diff. Would a 2-way not be safer on the street? Wouldn't a welded diff chirping around a corner be less streetable?

[Kingtal0n]

I was comparing to a welded diff. Would a 2-way not be safer on the street? Wouldn't a welded diff chirping around a corner be less streetable?

Its not about safe, its about noise and comfort. Many 2-way differentials make such a horrible noise when you turn you will quickly want to get rid of it. It is completely over-kill when you compare the cost/comfort of the VLSD. Maybe try to find some videos of cars with a 2-way so you can hear it.


IMO, The vlsd is only a problem child when it gets over-heated on a track (due to constant abuse) or when you need a true spool(locked) condition during drag racing.

[jr_ss]

Its not about safe, its about noise and comfort. Many 2-way differentials make such a horrible noise when you turn you will quickly want to get rid of it. It is completely over-kill when you compare the cost/comfort of the VLSD. Maybe try to find some videos of cars with a 2-way so you can hear it.


IMO, The vlsd is only a problem child when it gets over-heated on a track (due to constant abuse) or when you need a true spool(locked) condition during drag racing.

You're missing the point he was trying to make. A 2-way is safer in regards to drive ability. Yes, they are loud and not ideal but neither is a welded diff. I'd prefer to have a 2-way than a welded any day of the week.

Most people don't purchase a diff based on the noise level it generates. They buy them for the performance. We get that you want OEM everything, because that's all you preach and it's rather annoying. VLSD's are garbage, especially the high mileage ones that are available to most. An HLSD is better in all respects.

[eek]

^^^ Agreed

[ultimateirving]

Double agreed. Thank you

[e1_griego]

+3. Welded are horrible.

As far as not choosing based on noise and only caring about performance, sure. But how many posts have you seen over the years of "omg, my diff is so loud." The "because:racecar" fad is cool and all, but street driving an aggressive 2way gets old really fast, and it's not a cheap buy-in to begin with.

A high-miles vlsd is suspect, but if you can find a confirmed low-miles one, that's my preference too (outside of helical or giken).

[Kingtal0n]

You're missing the point he was trying to make. A 2-way is safer in regards to drive ability. Yes, they are loud and not ideal but neither is a welded diff. I'd prefer to have a 2-way than a welded any day of the week.

Most people don't purchase a diff based on the noise level it generates. They buy them for the performance. We get that you want OEM everything, because that's all you preach and it's rather annoying. VLSD's are garbage, especially the high mileage ones that are available to most. An HLSD is better in all respects.

ah, you have me backwards,

I only recommend the OEM parts (such as VLSD) because it is cheap. Not because it is "better". An HLSD is also an OEM differential, and highly recommend of course...

... however the only HLSD I know is the S15 version, which as we should know has a bad ratio for first gear on the 5-speed. Which is why I never bothered to mention it. And before you say guts swap, I would never come to a public forum and recommend a person whom I randomly encounter to do anything internally to any part as any kind of solution to a problem. It can be done of course, it is possible to rebuild engines and transmissions of course. And highly recommended that as well to all owners of all engines. but again, I do not jump in and say this because many people posting for "help online" do not have the tools or knowledge to do these things (thus the online help part).

I hope you understand my stance is not against aftermarket parts or custom parts, as this is the essence of high performance, I will always modify when I can, truly "balanced" lightweight components that improve performance are always recommended as the application calls for it. It just depends what the application is; some folks do not mind a twin plate on their daily. I would rather not (at least not for years) then again, it depends highly on the brand of twin plate amirite? So custom parts can always find a niche where they belong.

[e1_griego]

There are basically zero people who run the s15 hlsd in the s15 pumpkin.

It's easy enough to find s15 guts in s13 or s14 housing if someone doesn't want to deal with the setup.

[eek]

There are two in depth write ups on here as well as several on the web on how to swap in a S15 HLSD to your open diff. Even if someone was uncomfortable to swap the "guts" out there are plenty of shops a person could go to and pay some to have it done. As for ratios, you can re-use the open diff final drive gear ring (4.08) or you can source the ring and pinon you desire from other Nissan R200 diffs, if you wanted something lower or higher.

OBX makes a helical that can sourced on ebay, I don't suggest that unit but I have read reviews that it works fine for people who did use it before S15 HLSD were easier to source.

I'd almost suggest just have both diffs, find a low mileage VLSD and rock that as your daily, then find a open diff get it welded and swap that in for track days. Its not that bad to drop the pumpkin as long as you find the correct ones with the corresponding matching output flanges so you don't have to swap out axles every time. This is the route I would take if I could not afford a s15 hlsd, did not want to deal with the noise of a 2-way, and did not want deal with a welded daily.

[!Zar!]

Weld diffs are fine. They make zero chirping with proper tires. Only a skuffing sound.

A 2 way sounds like a trunk full of bowling balls flying all over the place when turning.

Neither are 'safer' than the other on the streets when given similar driving. The only thing that makes them unsafe is the operator of the vehicle diving outside of condition/posted limits.

[Gold Zenki]

imho ive driven a few cars with os gikens and i really hate them i feel like yes they are great for street but soo lazy because of that, makes the car harder to predict.. maybe as a street and roadrace would be great, but the lag it has to lock/set is much more than i like.. i have a kaaz 2way and its been in there for about 2-3yrs.. yes it used to clunk like hell but im usin motul 90pa with 2 bottles of gm modifier, now its once in a while it clunks.. if u do the one bottle or once fluid gets old i agree with Mr.Bowlinballs up there.. but i freaking love mine..i daily,roadrace, drift my car. just takes some getting used to tho. and better tires in the rear is nice too

[HORShi]

You're missing the point he was trying to make. A 2-way is safer in regards to drive ability. Yes, they are loud and not ideal but neither is a welded diff. I'd prefer to have a 2-way than a welded any day of the week.

Most people don't purchase a diff based on the noise level it generates. They buy them for the performance. We get that you want OEM everything, because that's all you preach and it's rather annoying. VLSD's are garbage, especially the high mileage ones that are available to most. An HLSD is better in all respects.

Yes I'm not worried about the noise lol I love the noise personally. I have a semi-straight exhaust, a clunking vlsd already, Subframe colors, aftermarket motor/trans mounts that slightly transmit vibrations, and not to mention 1 10 inch Apline type R that be pounding and rattling all the loose screws on the underside of the decklid lol. I love mechanical noises, makes the car feel alive. But enough of the noise input...I'm focusing on performance. Strictly.

I rather save up, and chalk up the money for a 2 way because I'm just worried about performance of a welded for drifting/DD, plus just from researching, it seems that people mixed opinions about it, such as having unnecessary wear on their such as the axles, exploding on the freeway at freeway speeds (wtf lol), spinning out in the rain (which I'm pretty sure if you was driving like an ass or flooring it, which you shouldn't be anyway) welded diffs are not properly balanced, snapping drive shafts and a bunch of other stuff. The biggest thing about a welded I have seen, that it requires almost no maintenance and extremely predictable, which is a big plus.

But from a performance aspect, and strictly drifting, no other motorsports and daily driving...I think the 2 way would be better maybe? Also, I want to rule out the price factor. We all know a 2 ways costs...that's why I would rather save up and get a 2 way if it's going to be more beneficial for a street car that sees weekend drifting, in comparison to a welded which of course is cheaper, but will be a beneficial performance wise?

Thanks once again guys, I'm researching myself, cause I know this has been debated before and the answers are out there, but it's hard to actually find someone that is legit honest and have tried a 2 way and a welded.

[HORShi]

Weld diffs are fine. They make zero chirping with proper tires. Only a skuffing sound.

A 2 way sounds like a trunk full of bowling balls flying all over the place when turning.

Neither are 'safer' than the other on the streets when given similar driving. The only thing that makes them unsafe is the operator of the vehicle diving outside of condition/posted limits.

Yes I would figure they should act for the most part, the same way. But since a welded is entirely locked, wouldn't that affect some performance possibility? So in real world situations, DD/ and drifting...is their really a difference between to the two? I would assume so since in a welded there is no slip, while in a 2 way LSD, of course there is limited slip. I hear guys who drive a 2 way say it's more "smoother" and "fluid" when it locks, and welded diffs understeer more and have to be more aggressive with it.

BTW I'm running a freshly stock rebuilt KA just to inform you guys.

Once again, thanks for the info guys once again.

[e1_griego]

imho ive driven a few cars with os gikens and i really hate them i feel like yes they are great for street but soo lazy because of that, makes the car harder to predict.. maybe as a street and roadrace would be great, but the lag it has to lock/set is much more than i like.. i have a kaaz 2way and its been in there for about 2-3yrs.. yes it used to clunk like hell but im usin motul 90pa with 2 bottles of gm modifier, now its once in a while it clunks.. if u do the one bottle or once fluid gets old i agree with Mr.Bowlinballs up there.. but i freaking love mine..i daily,roadrace, drift my car. just takes some getting used to tho. and better tires in the rear is nice too

OSG fluid has a lot of friction modifier in it -- if you go to a redline and add your own fluid you can change how the diff reacts.

I don't drift and the OSG is stellar on track and for autox.