SR20DET on Garret or BorgWarner

[vox]

Hi,

I have a S14 SER20DET with a gt2871r on 98unleaded has this numbers;

3000rpm 143hp
4000rpm 268hp
5000rpm 330hp
6000rpm 365hp
7000rpm 376hp

max 1.4bar of boost.

The life of my gt28r is coming to end and i want to upgrade on the new turbo.

I don't want to go over 540hp and be happy to be in between 520-540hp.

I also would like to improve on the low and middle range of my numbers.

I'm considering several turbos from Garret and BorgWarner;

GTX3071r, GTX3076r

EFR7163, EFR7670

I have read a lot of posts about these turbos but none focused on the SR20DET, that's why i'm opening this thread to get help from the community.

Hope to hear your ideas!

thks!

Bruno

[Loomis112]

If you want less lag it seems like the best choice would be the GTX3071 being that from what I've read. The GT3071r is a very popular turbo among the SR20det crowd for being the higher end lesser lag turbo above the GT2871.


What A/R housing do you plan to go with?

[vox]

Hi loomis112

Yes gtx3071r would be a great choice but i dont believe that can reach 540hp...

The housing will depend on the turbo but it will be a twinscroll with 2 wastegates.

[jr_ss]

You're going to have to sacrifice something here. You will not have better spool and higher power, it's the nature of the beast. Either something that spools quick and can make decent power or something slightly slower to spool but has the head room you want.

The GTX3071R is capable of 500hp, what's 25 more?

[DJ 21o3]

GTX3071. Response > Power. I am going GTX3076 for my 500hp SR build, but i plan on a VVL build down the road so i am leaving my self room to grow with the turbo. With a twinscroll setup, transient response should be decent even though full boost won't hit until at least 4500.

[Motary]

Chuck the Garretts in a bin and swap a Borg warner EFR. They cost more, but you also get a whole lot more. More top end, more low end. The Garretts are tried and true, but they are dated. I have a 6258 on my SR20 and I love it.

[vox]

You're going to have to sacrifice something here. You will not have better spool and higher power, it's the nature of the beast. Either something that spools quick and can make decent power or something slightly slower to spool but has the head room you want.

The GTX3071R is capable of 500hp, what's 25 more?
Hi jr_ss thats what im afraid of... And that i dont want...

[vox]

GTX3071. Response > Power. I am going GTX3076 for my 500hp SR build, but i plan on a VVL build down the road so i am leaving my self room to grow with the turbo. With a twinscroll setup, transient response should be decent even though full boost won't hit until at least 4500.
Hi DJ21o3 yeap in your build a vvl head will breath a lloootttt more so makes sense!

[vox]

Chuck the Garretts in a bin and swap a Borg warner EFR. They cost more, but you also get a whole lot more. More top end, more low end. The Garretts are tried and true, but they are dated. I have a 6258 on my SR20 and I love it.
Hi Motary thats the other idea regarding EFRs vs GPS im starting to get! And maibe with a EFRs i can keep or even improve the low and mid range and also get to 520~

[S14DB]

What cams are you running?

[vox]

Hi S14DB cams 260/260.

[PoorMans180SX]

You're going to have to sacrifice something here. You will not have better spool and higher power, it's the nature of the beast. Either something that spools quick and can make decent power or something slightly slower to spool but has the head room you want.

The GTX3071R is capable of 500hp, what's 25 more?

GTX3071. Response > Power. I am going GTX3076 for my 500hp SR build, but i plan on a VVL build down the road so i am leaving my self room to grow with the turbo. With a twinscroll setup, transient response should be decent even though full boost won't hit until at least 4500.

GT3071 and 3076 have a pretty high compressor/turbine mismatch IMHO. This means less response than could be acquired even with the same size compressor wheels and a bigger turbine. If you're even considering a 3076, at least consider a GTX3576. That being said, a twin-scroll EFR7163 will blow all of the listed turbos away in response and power output, soooo...

Chuck the Garretts in a bin and swap a Borg warner EFR. They cost more, but you also get a whole lot more. More top end, more low end. The Garretts are tried and true, but they are dated. I have a 6258 on my SR20 and I love it.

100% Agreed. The new EFR's dominate in spool (particularly transient respone) and power to their similarly sized Garrett counterparts.

[tokyowheels4real]

I recommend GT3071r (: my buddy has a sr20det. pulls amazing

[vox]

Hi Poormans180sx

That is the main discution... Gtx are in the market for a long time know...
EFRs are showing great results but can they supperseed the Gtx?

About the efr7163 i can believe it spool fast but deliver bigger power output that the gtx or give 540hp~ i can not.

Hi tokyowheels4real gt just cannot make it against gtx...

[MADE]

Are the BW 's a direct replacement type affair?

[jr_ss]

Are the BW 's a direct replacement type affair?

No. They require quite a bit of work to install.

[vox]

Where there's a will there's a way :)

[Dboyizmlg]

Just go with the GARRETT GTX3071 and E85, call it a day!

[DJ 21o3]

That is the main discution... Gtx are in the market for a long time know...
EFRs are showing great results but can they supperseed the Gtx?

About the efr7163 i can believe it spool fast but deliver bigger power output that the gtx or give 540hp~ i can not.

Rated at 60lbs/min, I can see it producing 540 bhp. I am curious about the actual response of the 7163 compared to the 3076, and I mean a dyno graph comparison rather than seat of the pants. In theory, yes the 7163 is a better match but I don't see why Garrett would continue to produce the 30r if it was such a bad pairing.

[PoorMans180SX]

Rated at 60lbs/min, I can see it producing 540 bhp. I am curious about the actual response of the 7163 compared to the 3076, and I mean a dyno graph comparison rather than seat of the pants. In theory, yes the 7163 is a better match but I don't see why Garrett would continue to produce the 30r if it was such a bad pairing.


I've been in 3071 and 3076 cars, neither impressed me. A $600 HX35 has better response IMO. I'm sure a twin-scroll 7163 dyno will come around soon enough, but I guarantee it will dominate a 3076 in spool and transient response.

As a rough example, the twin-scroll 62mm S300sx (a MUCH larger BW) reaches full boost at 4000rpm on my bosses 2.0liter EVO in a 1.10 housing. The 3076 is a dinosaur, even with the fancy GTX wheel.

BW also likes to under-rate their turbos IMO.

[DJ 21o3]

As a rough example, the twin-scroll 62mm S300sx (a MUCH larger BW) reaches full boost at 4000rpm on my bosses 2.0liter EVO in a 1.10 housing. The 3076 is a dinosaur, even with the fancy GTX wheel.

I love finding information like this, and hate it at the same time because I have to reconsider my planned parts. Damn you Vox for opening this thread! lol

[vox]

Glad to help ;)

[S14DB]

I love Apple and Oranges comparisons. This is not about brands of turbos. It's about picking the right wheel sizes for your application.

[vox]

S14DB yeap!

[PoorMans180SX]

I love Apple and Oranges comparisons. This is not about brands of turbos. It's about picking the right wheel sizes for your application.

Sort of, but not really. Fact is the 3076 is not the right wheel size for any combination. It has a bad turbo to compressor match, and is a lazy turbo because of that. The GTX3576 spools BETTER in most scenarios, simply because the turbine can do enough work to spin the compressor.

http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo-dyno-tuning-results/602163-gtx-showdown-gtx3076r-vs-gtx3576r.html

The 3071R isn't much better.

I always forget there is a GTX3067R, which is actually a good turbo.

However, the OP is talking about 50+lb/min top mount turbos, and there isn't a turbo in the category that will spool faster or have better response than a twin-scroll 7163.

So my first vote is an EFR 7163 with .92 T4 divided housing
Second would be a GTX3576R with a 1.06 T4 divided housing if you want more power than the 7163 can make.

[rbs14kouki]

If i ditch my pte5858 ar.82 in going efr7163

[rbs14kouki]

the gtx was t3 and the efr t4 if i remember right ... the flange on the manifold is the only thing that change on the sr20vet !

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa74/rbs14kouki/random%20cars/image-38.jpg (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/rbs14kouki/media/random%20cars/image-38.jpg.html)

[vox]

I was thinking why there is not a efr7163 without wastegate?

[PeaceOnesxWai]

Hoping theres more info now on these turbos now that theyve been out for a year?

Deciding on a BorgWarner EFR turbo around the same range as OP. Planning to purchase sometime this month once I have done enough research and pick the right turbo for me. I could care less about top hp, the pull between 3-4k is what really appeals to me.

[RTB.1054]

Hoping theres more info now on these turbos now that theyve been out for a year?

Deciding on a BorgWarner EFR turbo around the same range as OP. Planning to purchase sometime this month once I have done enough research and pick the right turbo for me. I could care less about top hp, the pull between 3-4k is what really appeals to me.

So did you ever decide on a turbo? And if so how do you feel about the results?
I'm leaning towards a BW 7163 twinscroll setup but not sure yet

[Def]

Hoping theres more info now on these turbos now that theyve been out for a year?

Deciding on a BorgWarner EFR turbo around the same range as OP. Planning to purchase sometime this month once I have done enough research and pick the right turbo for me. I could care less about top hp, the pull between 3-4k is what really appeals to me.

3-4k RPM? Something like an EFR 6258 would be fine there, and still be able to comfortably put up upper 300 rwhp out since it's a 44 lb/min turbo. That's about the same flow as a GT2871R.

As for the OP, he really wants an EFR 7163. The partial throttle and transient of it is far superior to the 500+ rwhp GTX turbos.

[vox]

Hi its been a while...

I still have not bougth the turbo but i will have to soon...

So have been doing some "reaserch" and to get houver the 500hp mark on a 71mm compressor on 98on its going to very dificult....

I also do not want to lose what i already have in the lower and mid range...

So im bringing another turbo to this discution...

GTX3576R

what you all think about it?

[vox]

Im thinking 1,01 T3 twinscroll!

What you all think?

[JSimpson]

Hi its been a while...

I still have not bougth the turbo but i will have to soon...

So have been doing some "reaserch" and to get houver the 500hp mark on a 71mm compressor on 98on its going to very dificult....

I also do not want to lose what i already have in the lower and mid range...

So im bringing another turbo to this discution...

GTX3576R

what you all think about it?

Im thinking 1,01 T3 twinscroll!

What you all think?
You'll have enough lag to eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner before it spools

[jr_ss]

As for the OP, he really wants an EFR 7163. The partial throttle and transient of it is far superior to the 500+ rwhp GTX turbos.

Your answer lies in the quoted text. Def knows what's up.

[PoorMans180SX]

So im bringing another turbo to this discution...

GTX3576R

what you all think about it?

The 3576 is an almost 600whp on pump gas turbo. This thing isn't going to start making decent torque until after 4000rpm in it's fastest-spooling divided T4 housing.
It's also about on par with spool time and power output with a Borg Warner S360, which is a $700 turbo.

A V-band 7163 is an ideal fit for you. Yes it's going to require the right combo to get 500whp on pump gas, but the response is going to kill any other turbo. It seems like response is more important to you than overall power, as it should be.

[Croustibat]

3576 should spool a bit better than that, but not that much, true.
A friend of mine is running a twinscroll 3582 on a high end CA18DET, and it starts to pull near 4000 (he boosts at 40 psi up to 8200rpm and still has 800rpm to play with, so quite a usable powerband).

Clearly, unless he uses launch control in 1st then rapes its gearbox between shifts, that thing lags.

[Belcher]

So did you ever decide on a turbo? And if so how do you feel about the results?
I'm leaning towards a BW 7163 twinscroll setup but not sure yet

What have you learnt so far about BW 7163 twinscroll? Please share some of your findings about it.

[Def]

What have you learnt so far about BW 7163 twinscroll? Please share some of your findings about it.

It's very good. :tardrim: