S14 rear lower balljoint: Stock vs Moog front (pictures and measurments)

[RalliartRsX]

So, I did some search, and there are many people who state the front lower ball joint for the S14 is universal between the front and the rear. Most just stated they were the same, but no one (apart from just listing numbers) actually showed proof of measurements (including the search I did here).

I will be the first to say I am not entirely sure it is a DIRECT replacement (its VERY close, but not 100% direct IMHO). Also, I could not get the lower shank thickness (covered by the Moog dust cover which I did not want to destroy. However, I have a Moog front I will have available once I swap it out as I destroyed the dust cover on install).

I will let the pictures do the talking. Let me know what pictures you guys want and measurements needed (maybe a drawing or diagram stating where you want the measurements taken) and I will my due dilligence to take more!

Is the concensus however that the fronts, although not exact, will still work with the rear??

The first set of pictures is a visual comparison (the two stocks on the left of course)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1956_zpsef2147b0.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1956_zpsef2147b0.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1957_zpsdbed8328.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1957_zpsdbed8328.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1958_zps5d82aea4.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1958_zps5d82aea4.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1959_zpsa126ba87.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1959_zpsa126ba87.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1960_zps999b41fa.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1960_zps999b41fa.jpg.html)


Stock Measurments:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1961_zpsbab21911.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1961_zpsbab21911.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1962_zps9efab482.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1962_zps9efab482.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1963_zps03a93f1f.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1963_zps03a93f1f.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1965_zps3e6b66fe.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1965_zps3e6b66fe.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1966_zpsca8ca664.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1966_zpsca8ca664.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1967_zps26802e55.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1967_zps26802e55.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1968_zps2aaed052.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1968_zps2aaed052.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1969_zps0a90eb45.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1969_zps0a90eb45.jpg.html)

Moog Measurments:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1971_zpscab15c42.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1971_zpscab15c42.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1972_zpsb6205fd6.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1972_zpsb6205fd6.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1973_zps6c89ef92.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1973_zps6c89ef92.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1974_zps66499549.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1974_zps66499549.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1975_zpsc0585cf3.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1975_zpsc0585cf3.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a354/RalliartRsX/IMG_1976_zpsb0b2e29a.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/RalliartRsX/media/IMG_1976_zpsb0b2e29a.jpg.html)


What do you guys think??

[RalliartRsX]

I am surprised no one has a comment on this considering the differing opinions

[Agamemnon]

Thanks for taking the time to take some measurements.

A long time ago it was common knowledge that the front and rears were not the same and were not interchangeable. The fronts are about 1mm too big. That's not saying the front don't work in the rears, but you do stretch out the opening in the lower arm a tad. Many people made it work though and after awhile it was just assumed that they were the same.

[RalliartRsX]

At first insight, that is what is seems (the balljoint housing being just slightly too big). However, uopn further inspection, the difference for the separate sections between the upper clip slot and the lower surface (basically the shank housing) is much less than 1mm (think of the order of 0.0x region).

The major difference that I saw last night (I took even more measurments)
1) The upper shank thickness is 1 mm larger in diameter
2) The lower shank thickness is .5-1mm larger in diameter
3) The shank height is .5mm longer in the moog (slight roll center correction. However, I am not sure the extra height will be a issue when mouting to the knuckle and not coming into contact with the axle).

The dimensions below the shank are almost identical.

I will post my notes from last night when I get home (I inadvertantly left them there).

[az_240]

This is what I always go by... I have the Moog K9820 in the front and rear of my S14 (many others do as well) and have had no issues.

S14 Front/Rear (moog K9820)
Taper low diameter 15mm
Taper High diameter 18.6mm
Taper length 23mm
Diameter where it presses in 41mm

S13 Front (Moog K9509)
Taper low diameter 15.8mm
Taper High diameter 18mm
Taper length 19.5mm 20mm
Diameter where it presses in 41mm

S13 Rear (moog K9633 [b12 front])
Taper low diameter 15mm
Taper High diameter 18.6mm
Taper length 23mm or 23.5
Diameter where it presses in 38mm

[RalliartRsX]

This is what I always go by... I have the Moog K9820 in the front and rear of my S14 (many others do as well) and have had no issues.

S14 Front/Rear (moog K9820)
Taper low diameter 15mm
Taper High diameter 18.6mm
Taper length 23mm
Diameter where it presses in 41mm

S13 Front (Moog K9509)
Taper low diameter 15.8mm
Taper High diameter 18mm
Taper length 19.5mm 20mm
Diameter where it presses in 41mm

S13 Rear (moog K9633 [b12 front])
Taper low diameter 15mm
Taper High diameter 18.6mm
Taper length 23mm or 23.5
Diameter where it presses in 38mm

Here is what I just measured
S14 Rear (STOCK)
Taper low diameter 14.7-14.9mm (smaller than moog by 0.3-0.1mm)
Taper High diameter 18.46mm (smaller than moog by .14mm)
Taper length 23.11mm (bigger than moog by .11mm)
Diameter where it presses in 39.92mm (smalerl than moog by 1.08mm)

So for the most part, the disparities in my eyes are small enough and in the areas that matter the most where I am going to install the Moogs in the rear! I just wanted some reassurance as there is a TON of misinformation on this site unfortunately :(

They were ordered last night, so the arms will be prepped and ball joints pressed in! Much cheaper than spending $150 per arm :naughtyd: (both new balljoints were cheaper than 50 shipped!).

Thanks guys!