Are 240's competitive in auto X?

[WONTONnPHO]

How are your experiences with the 240 in auto X's?

[i-love-my-s14]

i usually finish 3rd or 4th in my class but i have only raced twice, and i have an automatic.

[HaLo]

yes, they can be competitive, but the driver has to be good.

[sykikchimp]

It seems most of the competitive 240's are in Street Mod. I don't think the 240 does so well in the stock class. what is it, g stock?

[Bbandit]

Mine was competitive enough in STU/SSM class last semester.
All i had was just coilovers, 2way LSD, TC rods, Tension rod, 100%bone stock KA(Dynoed @ 132rwhp), 16x8 SSR+ 225/50 Dunlop FM901.
Finished 2nd in overall standing(semester championship) in that class last semester. And that was because I missed 1 Autocross out of 4 that semester.

When I was still 100%bonestock, I was able to keep my time about the same as a modded(Suspensions+I/H/E) Integra GSR (same brand tires as mine, kumho ecsta supra back then).

So yea, I would say the 240 is competitive in autocross.

[LanceS13]

Yeah, it doesn't do too good in G Stock. It's either under-powered or over-weight compared to the competitive GS cars. It's ok in ST and DSP, but SM is probably it's best shot. But on the local level, a good driver can finish well in it in any class.

[Replicant_S14]

what is it, g stock?

Yah, I think so and I don't know of anyone with a 240 in that class.

..but on the greater topic, it's kinda hard to judge. I'm relatively new to auto-xing (this is my 3rd season). Last year I took 3rd in STS for the year in my region. That's out of a group of about 15 regular STS drivers. The competition was Civics, SE-rs, GSRs and some other unimportant oddball cars. My car was not maxed to STS rules but because of one particular driver in my region, I doubt I would have placed first even if it was.

Point is, autocrossing is really driver dependant. If I were in a region that only had 2 other drivers in my class, and they sucked. I'd win all the time but that wouldn't necessarily mean that the 240 was a great car for auto-xing. A better indicator might be results from the solo2 nationals but I searched the 2003 results and didn't find any 240sxs.

...that actually kinda sucks. One of us needs to get a 240 at nats!!!

[thelinja]

I run G stock and plan to do so until I can get some extensive mods that will allow me to be competitive in other classes. I usually finish in the bottom half of the class and there's usually 7-12 drivers in G stock. The top half is usually Mini Cooper S's and the guys that drive those cars are more experienced than I am and I usually get beat anywhere from 2 seconds to .1 seconds. I'll get there eventually. However, the past few races I've placed in the top 10% in PAX. And of course, most of the top PAX times are G stock drivers.

[brianglawson]

mine does very well, im running smn (street mod novice:))

[thx247]

sm i think it has a chance, but in g i dont think it has a very good chance, even with r tires. cooper s is just to fast

[HaLo]

DSP it could do ok... BUT fully modded SM it your best bet...

[019]

DSP it could do ok... BUT fully modded SM it your best bet...

yea, sm is probably the best bet. like other have said, gs is too competitive for most 240 drivers. sts, which is what i run, isn't too bad. i usually end up somewhere in the middle of the pack. sm allows you to run with more engine mods, so that helps. altho i do have to say that if you're a really good driver, it doesn't matter what you run, haha. i know a guy who's a national driver and he got himself a 240. the first time he ever ran the car (he had gotten the car the day prior) he ran gs and got 4th out of 8. not too bad, but also consider that he beat most of the guys in sts as well in a bone stock 240, hehe.

[HaLo]

True... Auto-x is all about the driver. Skills are much more important than the car or preparation level of the car. I see drivers here beat fully modded cars with stock 1990 Civic DXs... ;)

[kcolyer27]

Few friends of mine do it in their 240s' and usually come in high places. Autox you need to get the hang of it before you become good.

[thelinja]

what class do they race in?

[mikespeed95]

they can run
gs- stock
dsp/sts-light mods
sm-heavy mods

I think they can be competitive, again all comes down to the driver, but next year i have an idea and im going to try to go to nationals with it.

[AceInHole]

lol... it's sooo hard to build a truly competative SM car.... it all depends on the area I guess. In addition, higher power/ better handling cars require more a LOT more skill to drive better on the edge....

Right now my car is at about 70% ready. Still need Hoosiers (possibly going 315/35/R17 all around or maybe 335 in back), a lot more weight reduction, and a lot more detailed suspension work. Not to mention about 50 more rwhp and a more reliable bottom end.

When I was running STS i faired pretty well. The only problem is that the 240 likes 245's all around, and STS limits you to 225's :(
GS isn't TOO bad, I just find that no one bothers to go R-compound on their stock 240.
DSP seems to be about the same boat as SM......

[brianglawson]

all i can say, is if your in an s13, you will want some seats. i finally ordered an recaro yesterday, and im hoping and praying its here and we can get it installed by July 18th, stock s13 seats let me roll around way too much, i had bruises from bracing myself on doorpanels, and console...haha

[LanceS13]

...Still need Hoosiers (possibly going 315/35/R17 all around or maybe 335 in back)...
:eek2: Holy shit dude...is that possible?!

[i2ice4m3]

wow i've never heard of running such a wide tire for autox

[jmauld]

If this AEM EMS thing pans out, the 240 could become very competitve in DSP. At the moment, I think it's biggest limitation in DSP is the lack of power against the beemers.

I ran GS for a year and did fairly well, but the lack of front camber adjustment made me go through tires too quickly. So this year, I've been running DSP with just camber bolts and swaybars and have been consistently placing in 2nd place about 1.5-2 seconds behind a very good 1st place driver, in a bmw.

[thx247]

It is possible, see his post on FA about it. Sorta looks funny but most upper cars in SM have wicked fender flares already.

[stumpz]

I am pretty competitive in my 240. The last autocross I did w/ my 240 I ended up getting paxed 37th out of 110ish drivers and I'm in street mod w/ an sr...but that was when I had my stock suspenion setup. I recently upgraded to the d2 coilover setup which increased everything dramatically. I am hoping to have my new clutch in by the 18th, which is the next autocross, because I blew it at the drift event thursday and missed hyperfest this weekend :-(. But yeah, I love to autocross more in my civic because it was more competitive then teh 40 back then..

[AceInHole]

It is possible, see his post on FA about it. Sorta looks funny but most upper cars in SM have wicked fender flares already.

315 in the rear will just need a pulled fender. If I can come across enough money (i.e. hit it big in blackjack) over winter it'll most definitely be 315 in front and 335 in back, though. For now it's 315 in back and 275 in front since that fits best on the rims I currently have.

[pruto]

when i was doing autocrossing two years ago a couple 240s were doing well in STS, i got push up into DSP cause i was running 8.5 wide rims.

thats what i kinda didn't like about autocross tho, i don't like that entire concept of maximizing your mods depending on the class you were in. i was running in DSP with a stock engine, that wasn't really fun. I stopped going when i found out about that no bodykit rule in street prepared.

[OptionZero]

I'm gonna hit up the event in Stockton, CA this saturday probably, will be my first event. I think my mods put me in a higher category (see sig)...does anyone know where to find the rules and guidelines for each class? I can't find it on the scca website

As its my first event, and i have shitty tires on stock rims, i'll probably look pretty stupid, but it should be fun, automatic or not...i am told even with a 5spd, its all just 2nd gear anyways...

[kingsol]

aye sup man, you're going to track your car?! make sure to have someone tape it and then give it to justin so we can watch!!! good luck

[Wei240]

well, went to my first autox at cal speedway, and boy i suck, i'm pretty sure i got last in st(x) but the 1st in class was another 240sx, 1 thing i notice is you need sticky tires which everyone else have and which i didn't have and that sucked...

[Replicant_S14]

I'm gonna hit up the event in Stockton, CA this saturday probably, will be my first event. I think my mods put me in a higher category (see sig)...does anyone know where to find the rules and guidelines for each class? I can't find it on the scca website

...

The cams will put you in Street Modified I think.

I dunno how up-to-date it is (probably pretty close) but here's your Classing info (http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/)

[Replicant_S14]

well, went to my first autox at cal speedway, and boy i suck, i'm pretty sure i got last in st(x) but the 1st in class was another 240sx, ...

That's great. I think I can get some wins in STX with the 240 but right now I'm struggling against a couple of ITRs. I only need 2/10ths and I'll be there. I regularly out run a couple of WRXs. They may just be sucky drivers but it's still kinda cool because all those rex guys think those cars shot straight down from jesus. It's annoying. 2nd most annoying are the mini drivers.

[OptionZero]

The cams will put you in Street Modified I think.

I dunno how up-to-date it is (probably pretty close) but here's your Classing info (http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/)

how will they know I have cams...i don't think they, on an automatic at least...are noticeable enough a power gain

[Replicant_S14]

....how will they know I have cams...

They won't but if you aren't interested in classing the car where it's supposed to be, just run novice or time only.

[OptionZero]

well...i am a novice

[240 OR DIE]

Well I hate speaking for others, but one local driver who codrives a 240 will most likely on a local event take top honors on the day for practicly every event. You put the same guy in another car and he still destroys everybody. What does that say, driver is everything. On my own person note I run STS locally, and usually place 1st or 2nd. Ive had quite a few events with a 1st place trophy and if im not in 1st in my class, I probably had the fastest run, but its those damn cones that get ya. My rival is a GSR and hes always on my ass or vice versa, the competition is great. I have a big event this weekend so Ill be focusing on a few things I need improvement on, like both hands on the wheel and slow in fast out. Anyways I think the car is competitive at a certain level, and then driving skill will make it much more competitive.


Good Luck and Have Fun

Justin

[Tricky1980]

im so confused.. im running in stx class in my region and after 5 events i have 3 1st and 2 2nd place.. the cars in my class are a wrx, 2 6 cylinder mustangs and 1 mustang gt auto, and then radom cars that show up... i just have bolt on upgrades, agx, whiteline springs, underdrive pulley 17x7.5 rims(dont ask) j30 lsd short throw kit.. am i in the wrong class should i be higher... lower, any idea.. why is there a stang gt in my class!? he is the only one that ever beats me but that was only twice at bigger courses..???
jay

[Replicant_S14]

im so confused.. im running in stx class in my region and after 5 events i have 3 1st and 2 2nd place.. the cars in my class are a wrx, 2 6 cylinder mustangs and 1 mustang gt auto, and then radom cars that show up... i just have bolt on upgrades, agx, whiteline springs, underdrive pulley 17x7.5 rims(dont ask) j30 lsd short throw kit.. am i in the wrong class should i be higher... lower, any idea.. why is there a stang gt in my class!? he is the only one that ever beats me but that was only twice at bigger courses..???
jay

The j30 rear put's you in stx. That's the same reason I'm stx instead of sts. The stang is ok because of the 5.1L limit for N/a cars. I wouldn't worry about it anyway. I'd rather race GTs than ITRs.

[thelinja]

What about the J30 diff moves you up to Street Touring? Is it because of the gearing?

[Wei240]

because it's a l.s.d, not gear ratios...

[thelinja]

I wouldn't think that would make a difference. VLSD was an option on 240's, so swapping a VLSD would still make it "stock." That would be the same as just selling a car with an open diff and buying a car with VLSD just so you can have a limited slip.
I still run stock class with an HLSD. It doesn't give me that much of an advantage since most of the surfaces I race on are really rough in some places and I still get wheelspin. Oh well, I just autox for fun and it's not like I'll ever win my region because there are some badass drivers around here.

[240 OR DIE]

Under STS rules if you upgrade the open diff to vlsd you have to swap in the same make and model as your car. So that says only a differential out of a 240 can be used. And of course the gear ratios are different so that is another reason. STX allows for any differential so you can go ahead and throw in that 1.5 cusco unit you allways wanted to get.

[nocomedown]

I wouldn't think that would make a difference. VLSD was an option on 240's, so swapping a VLSD would still make it "stock." That would be the same as just selling a car with an open diff and buying a car with VLSD just so you can have a limited slip.
I still run stock class with an HLSD. It doesn't give me that much of an advantage since most of the surfaces I race on are really rough in some places and I still get wheelspin. Oh well, I just autox for fun and it's not like I'll ever win my region because there are some badass drivers around here.
what part of IN are you in? im gonna be in west lafayette for the next 4 (or so) years, and as soon as im able to have my 240 up at school with me (fall 2005), i want to start Auto-Xing, and up until that point, i'm gonna want to just attend as many events as a spectator as possible to get to know the people. if youve got any good info on the different events and organizations that run them in the area, please drop me a PM or email ([email protected]).

[019]

I still run stock class with an HLSD

if you have an hlsd, then you should be in stx

[thelinja]

Yeah, but I don't have any other mods to back up the diff so I'm staying in stock. Also, that's a stupid rule about swapping in a viscous from a J30, it's the same thing as swapping in a vlsd from another 240. The unit is the same. I got a hell of a deal on the HLSD, so I'm not going to move up just so I can get spanked by heavily modded WRX's and smaller compacts such as civics and integras.

[jmauld]

I think the swaybar and spring rule is stupid too. So, I'll just run my car in stock.

Seriously, if you're going to play, play by the rules. If your local competiters find out that you're not playing by the rules, they'll dislike you for it. And they'll remember it for a really long time.

FYI: VLSD does not equal HLSD. Sorry to break the news to you.

[Replicant_S14]

Under STS rules if you upgrade the open diff to vlsd you have to swap in the same make and model as your car. So that says only a differential out of a 240 can be used. And of course the gear ratios are different so that is another reason. STX allows for any differential so you can go ahead and throw in that 1.5 cusco unit you allways wanted to get.

Yeah, for STS the J30 rear wouldn't be legal period and even if you found a 240sx rear to put in, you'd need to also put in ABS since the two options were a package on north american cars. Goofy huh?

....or, just rock it STX. 2wd cars can use any diff in STX.



I'm not going to move up just so I can get spanked by heavily modded WRX's and smaller compacts such as civics and integras.

So you get spanked, So what?

[240 OR DIE]

Not to brag but Im usually ahead of stx drivers by 1 to 2sec. At Houston Nat Tour the top SM times were still beat by STS(pesky civics).These guys are badass drivers, and extremely lightweight cars. Anyways jump in your beater get spanked or spank somebody or whatever just go have fun kicking somebodies ass. Later

[MovinUp-1]

Justin, what are you smoking today? Leftover welding slag from trying to fix your subframe? STS was not faster than SM at the Houston Tour.

[240 OR DIE]

Thats what I get for listening to Brians overactive imgination. Shoulda know better, and no its medical grade opium.

[mikespeed95]

OK, after reading a lot of this let me express 2 known facts i have learned in my 2 years of auto-xing


1) more than 50% of people cheat about classes.
2) more than 30% of the peopel i have talked to / almost 90% of the n00bs get stuck in the wrong class.


STS rules state, that a 240sx is allowed iwth open diff or vlsd, straight from scca. does your punkin say j30t on it? no, run sts. is it giving you any DISTINCT advantage? NO. RUN STS

I will be running a 2way lsd in sts probably, do i care? no, does anyone else? probably not. otehr than the fact that i should be able to outdrift them i am not seeing any distinct advantage warrantying me to run SM or STX and get pwned by cars on slicks.

strut bars / apc intake / one piece non adjustable racing seat vs reclinable / c/f hood, crap like that can alter your class. Is anyone gonig to contest it if you win? probably not, why? because the people who know the rules dont care about little stuff like that, most peopel understand that people modify their cars before they get into auto-x and are not going to penalize them for that.

My civic was illegal due to a DX motorswap in my EX ( shop blew up my motor, i am poor ) , which was totally illegal. to run in sts/dsp/hs IIRC i would have to remove my sunroof, power windows/locks, make my car a dx. Did anyone care enough to contest me? NO, was i cheating? yes.

nobody cares about little stuff, you can get away with it. same with internal modifications for drag racing, do they give you a huge advantage? no. do you ahve to tell people you have forged pistons /rods at stock compression so you can spray at the track? no.

same with motorswaps. if you have a LS in your civic i think you should be allowed to run sts, besides haveing a lto more torque , therefore wheelspin i dont see any advantage to it.

Auto-x is 90% driver, 5% car, 5% luck. little stuff in the rules can be overlooked. i am not saying though blatant rules violoations shoudl be allowed ( R compounds in STS is a serious NO NO , whats worse is when they still get beat )

im done ranting. little stuff nobody cares about can be overlooked. I am not a fan of cheating but if there is something little i want to do ( i.e. cams ) that is not legal for my class (STS) i am not going to skip over a mod i wanted to do to stay in my class. its 10whp, not enough to matter at an auto-x.

[MovinUp-1]

So you feel that "little" mods like adding more power and having more available grip out of a corner with a better differential shouldn't make you move to the class you actually belong in.

Wow.

I can't argue with you on this. Because you are just flat out wrong.

[jmauld]

So you feel that "little" mods like adding more power and having more available grip out of a corner with a better differential shouldn't make you move to the class you actually belong in.

Wow.

I can't argue with you on this. Because you are just flat out wrong.

agreed! With that attitude, if I knew that you were cheating, I'd protest you regardless of if we were even in the same class as me.

If you did more digging, you'd find that A LOT less then 50% of people who take autocross seriously, will cheat. They may push the rules, but they won't flat out cheat.

I just can't get over that you think swapping an engine, changing cams, and who knows what else is "okay". :loco:

[ryan hagen]

damnn, i swapped a 1995 s14 ka24de into my 1991 s13 when my motor blew.
i guess that makes my car illegal, i even put my s13 cams into it... i better see about making it into a s14, this sucks, i was gonna be in my first autocross this weekend in mi, but i guess i ll opt out..........

[LanceS13]

Opt out? Why?!? Do you think you're gonna be competitive at your FIRST autocross anyway? Go! Have fun!

Bottom Line: Rules are neccessary, even if they seem unreasonable in a particular case. The very nature of a rule makes it impossible for a specific exception to be made w/o opening the door for other LARGER exceptions...that is without severely complicating what is, in some cases, an already complicated rule set. Sorry, but that's the way it is. In your case ryan, I wouldn't protest you b/c I don't know the visual difference between an S13 and S14 KA...and I certainly wouldn't be able to pickup on the almost nill performance difference. Not that I condone this, but you could run GS until somebody is desparate enough to protest you...you still get the seat time. If they do, just move to SM at the next event...you'll get slaughtered, but you can still have fun and improve yourself until you can get yourself into a more competitive car.

A buddy of mine drives a turbo FC RX-7 with 15 year old worn out stock suspension, solid rear toe bushings, and a boost controller...and that's about it. He has to run SM2 and is really never a contender. But one event, he co-drove a Prizm in HS and trophied b/c of what he had learned while driving his way-non-competitive RX-7. I fear the day he can afford to put a good suspension and big R compounds on that car.

[ryan hagen]

i did my first autocross, they put me in dsp, and raced some little VW's with roll cages that also run the northern michagan rally races, i got beat pretty good, i ran a 120.21 +1- cone as my best time, the cars in other classes were a vw something brand new, that ran a 106.?? as the fastest time, it killed a vette zo6, and a viper, the course was so tight that the viper got cone penalties alot cause he had to almost stop to get through, the v-dubs that were so short killed us. all the top times were rally cars and VW's actaully all the rally cars were VW's also. my friend who was in a differnt class got a 120.71 no cones with lowering springs and gr2's. it was hella fun, but now i know next time to show up with azenis sports, and some more suspension tuning.
so i d have to say raceing against other 240's is fun, and other rear wheel cars, but the little V-dub's have a huge advantage over us.

[LanceS13]

120? As in 2 minutes? Damn that musta been a long course.
You may have been way behind the front runners, but how much did you improve your times from your first run...as a novice, that is much more important. Anyway, glad to hear you had fun.

But I was looking at your other mods just now...just fyi, you should be in SM anyway with the Z brakes and aftermarket control arms.

[Replicant_S14]

so i d have to say raceing against other 240's is fun, and other rear wheel cars, but the little V-dub's have a huge advantage over us.

Nah, it's just because it's your first auto-x. The only new vw that might be ok is the R32. It's neat, but it's also pretty heavy. The older vws do ok but I have a '01 GTI and mod for mod, the 240 will eat it's lunch......unless it's a drag race :cry:

[ryan hagen]

the corners were tight, like really tight, the 240's(2) the vette zo6(1) and viper(1) got beat and had alot of cones. a yellow r32 got a 106 and that was the best time. the shorter cars had a huge advantage, like a mini cooper would have anihlated all at this, a clown car could have. but the best time didnt count, it was this guy in a dune buggy looking thing that he had built, i heard his time was better than the r32 but this thing was not street legal in like any way. it had a Vw motor, out of a old bug, and had like huge negative camber, probally weighed 1500lb or less with driver.
my first run was a 125.?? off course, missed 1 gate