SR20 Operating Temperature

[Kaifd3s]

OK so I searched and came across a TON of different temps. I went through the FSM and couldn't really find anything other than 220F is bad and at 170F is where the thermostat opens.

Cruising around town in South Florida heat, my temps are usually around 185F to 190F. If I turn on the AC that thing shoots up to around 206F.

My question is this normal? I was thinking maybe it should run a little cooler.

Mods:
Mishimoto Rad
Samco hoses
40 coolant 60 water with some water wetter
FAL puller fans
HKS rad cap at about 18psi

[jr_ss]

You're adding additional heat to the cooling system. Of course your temps are going to increase. 205 isn't bad and my car use to be between 195-205 no matter what was on or I was doing. 215 is where my alarm is set so I can get a cool down lap or two in before it spikes. However, even at those temps I have yet to see my factory gauge climb into the red, so who knows how hot that the motor has to get for that to register.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Get rid of the E-fans and go back to stock mechanical fan/shroud. That was the only way I could keep my Silvia from pinging over 100* with the AC on and in stop/go traffic.

[Om1kron]

Get rid of the E-fans and go back to stock mechanical fan/shroud. That was the only way I could keep my Silvia from pinging over 100* with the AC on and in stop/go traffic.

had a taurus e-fan on my radiator and that thing was more trouble than it was worth. I got a G-Teck replacement fan, used fan clutch, and replaced my water pump. Car runs a solid 70c on a normal temp day, and running it hard in sub 100 degree weather at about 80-90c.

Best investment ever.

No more ridiculous electric issues or massive power draws running an e-fan.

[Sileighty_85]

Dont use Autozone type Thermos, Only OEM/Nismo Ones

[KiLLeR2001]

Altima E-Fans here. I like to keep my temps around 185-190, which is what I would consider normal. As long as it doesn't reach 220F, you're fine. But I can imagine you don't want to be sitting in the 200's for extended periods of time either.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Dont use Autozone type Thermos, Only OEM/Nismo Ones

Napa uses made in USA/close to OEM spec thermos, only place I'd get them from outside of the dealer.

[Sileighty_85]

Napa uses made in USA/close to OEM spec thermos, only place I'd get them from outside of the dealer.

Id only trust one if I had a AM temp gauge.in my S14 KA I had a Autozone one and when crusing on the interstate it would go up to 210* on my Defi without A/C...pulled it and installed a Nissan OEM one and temps went down to 183* and stayed

[Kaifd3s]

I still have a Nismo tstat and a new OEM waterpump to put in.

So just to make sure I am reading right, my temps are normal then?

[dorkidori_s13]

i live in las vegas, NV where its 125deg in the shade in the middle of summer. my car normally runs around 165-205 (and thats with a chuki bumper).

get rid of electric fans, get rid of water + coolant... run straight green coolant and reinstall OEM fan + fan shroud. e-fans are garbage in areas of the world where its HOT! the clutch fan spins the speed of the engine and creates a vacuum effect behind the radiator to help cycle air thru the engine bay and to properly pull air into the radiator. there is no other fan for the SR that works like the OEM clutch fan does!

what bumper you run also plays a huge part too. the chuki bumpers have the WORST air flow out of any S13 bumper period! in my last coupe, i switched from a chuki bumper to an OEM kouki bumper... normal operating temp dropped 20+ degrees!

but yeah, in real heat the SR requires clutch fan + shroud! PERIOD!

[zombiewolf513]

Im in AZ, I run only water, 1/2 gallon of 50/50 antifreeze + bottle water wetter, heater core bypassed, mishi e-fans, chuki bumper and stay between 76-82* C.

You run 100% antifreeze dorki?

[dorkidori_s13]

Im in AZ, I run only water, 1/2 gallon of 50/50 antifreeze + bottle water wetter, heater core bypassed, mishi e-fans, chuki bumper and stay between 76-82* C.

You run 100% antifreeze dorki?

yeup, running water in extremely dry conditions (like NV or AZ) causes it to evaporate and rust to form. when coolant boils, all of the water evaporates in dry climates and causes air pockets as well.

[RalliartRsX]

Here is a VERY good article about cooling on the SR. Read it from top to bottom! You will learn a thing or two, even if it may or may not apply to your current situation

Factual Cooling Data for 240SX with Numbers! (http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/Cooling%20Data%20Comparison.html)

[Kaifd3s]

Here is a VERY good article about cooling on the SR. Read it from top to bottom! You will learn a thing or two, even if it may or may not apply to your current situation

Factual Cooling Data for 240SX with Numbers! (http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/Cooling%20Data%20Comparison.html)


Thank bro, I read that a LONG time ago. What the article showed was that ducting is the biggest difference.

Thinking about running a factory underpanel now. Thoughts?

[KiLLeR2001]

Never will I use a clutch fan again. On my first 240sx, I had a water pump stud snap off and the clutch fan broke free and caused all sorts of havoc underneath my engine bay. Tore up a lot of shit and left me stranded.

The stock clutch fan is bulky, an OEM replacement fan clutch costs about $200, and aftermarket ones are a crapshoot. I'm in Orlando, FL in blazing Florida heat and my Altima fans have never failed me. My current set has been running since 2008 and they haven't missed a beat yet.

Like that article suggests. Ducting is key. A properly arranged set of e-fans will always reign supreme over the clutch fan design. You couldn't pay me enough to re-install a stock clutch fan back into any 240sx I own.

[fliprayzin240sx]

^^^Must have been a shitty autozone water pump. The studs on those are notoriously suspect.

For my situation, clutch fan was the only thing that worked for me in Okinawa. Went from being able to go drift for 5-10 mins to be out there until my brand new tires are dead. Again, I still had AC. I've tried FALs and FD E-fans and even went as far as mounted a larger R33 condenser E-fan that turns on with the AC but temp still crept to 100*.

[az_240]

Factual Cooling Data for 240SX with Numbers! (http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/Cooling%20Data%20Comparison.html)

Nice article... will need to invest in a cooling panel soon.

I know there are dudes that have issues with E-fans here in AZ... who knows how they are setup tho. Most go back to the mechanical fan in the end.

[Ichiban4]

I live in Texas.

Alum Rad
Flexalite e-fans
Nismo Thermo
40/60water
FMIC in front of the rad
Upper cooling panel

My temps avg 160-185. After a couple laps (drifting) on the track it will go up to about 210 and I will let it cool back down.

[KendallH]

Best cooling on SR:

OEM Nissan thermostat (get it, its cheap insurance)
Clutch fan/shroud (do you want 200+ HP cooling your engine or .5 HP?)
Green coolant, mix depending on your region

Period. Provided there are no other issues with your cooling system, properly bled and you're not running some sort of super race engine, this is the best setup.

[ixfxi]

i dont see the big deal here

i ran both, clutch and efans.... i think its all a matter of preference and usage

if you never want to think of a fan, and never want to think of wiring, then a clutch fan is the way to go. i didnt like mine for a multitude of reasons:
1) they can fail, and when they do they tend to howl like a garbage truck
2) they take up so much room and hinder access to the front of the motor

i liked the efan setup.. i ran the slim dual FAL setup. you need to use heavy gauge wiring and twin relays. the main reason people have problems with the efan setup is because of the included thermostat that most fans use- the shitty probes that fit between the radiator fins. these are complete trash.

i used a screw-in thermoswitch that i plumbed into the hot side (output) of the coolant system.... fans turned on at 190 or so.

besides that, i think the biggest problem people have is bleeding their system. people simply dont know how to properly bleed the system. raise the front, use a funnel and let the car idle and bleed itself. done and done. out here in socal i barely used any antifreeze... something like 20% to prevent corrosion.

[dorkidori_s13]

i dont see the big deal here

i ran both, clutch and efans.... i think its all a matter of preference and usage

if you never want to think of a fan, and never want to think of wiring, then a clutch fan is the way to go. i didnt like mine for a multitude of reasons:
1) they can fail, and when they do they tend to howl like a garbage truck
2) they take up so much room and hinder access to the front of the motor

i liked the efan setup.. i ran the slim dual FAL setup. you need to use heavy gauge wiring and twin relays. the main reason people have problems with the efan setup is because of the included thermostat that most fans use- the shitty probes that fit between the radiator fins. these are complete trash.

i used a screw-in thermoswitch that i plumbed into the hot side (output) of the coolant system.... fans turned on at 190 or so.

besides that, i think the biggest problem people have is bleeding their system. people simply dont know how to properly bleed the system. raise the front, use a funnel and let the car idle and bleed itself. done and done. out here in socal i barely used any antifreeze... something like 20% to prevent corrosion.

i will agree with your stance to a point, its just that most people in the 240 scene buy cheaply made parts and thats a huge thing. cheaply made radiators arent produced the same way as name brand ones (the main difference is in the upper and lower tanks, cheap radiators are mostly solid where Koyos are hollow), most e-fans become a huge hindrance after 50+mph simply because they start blocking air thats supposed to be flowing thru the radiator fins and most folks dont take into account the heat vs engine temps needed, even just under daily driving circumstances. Oil viscosity also plays a major role too! those running anything below 10w-40 will have problems... the minimum recommended weight from nissan for the SR is 10w-40 and 10w-50 in the summer with temps above 90deg. 5w-30 and 10w-30 simply dont have the viscosity to properly lubricate internal engine parts without burning after a while. i tend to burn off almost an entire quart of 10w-30 when i use it, with 10w-40 and above, i barely burn off 1/16th of a quart (its usually damn near full when i change oil with 10w-40 or 20w-50). oil viscosity does play a role in your engines general internal temps!

if done properly and with the right parts purchase, an e-fan setup can work very well, however, living in the climate i do, i have yet to ever see an e-fan setup work in Vegas. underhood temps in the summer are astronomical, especially for those running tubular manifolds or OEM manifolds with heatcovers on them (add about 30-50 deg easily to your underhood temps this way). part of the clutch fans job is to push air backwards into the engine to help cool the heads, the block and to push unwanted exhaust manifold temps outwards and downwards. this is all fine and good if youre building a track car, though your run time on the course will be heavily hindered when compared to the clutch fan (ive seen SO many cali guys with e-fans pull out only after 2-3 laps AT MOST as their cars start to over heat very quickly).

in climates that are much more tame than vegas (where you dont have 150+ deg heat coming from the blacktop of the streets), e-fans seem to work fairly well, especially when you wire up a dual altima fan setup (which has been tried and test as the best e-fan upgrade for the s chassis). im not sure how well they do with daily driving, but it seems if you spend the money on a good setup (quality fan and radiator), daily driving isnt an issue... especially if you wire up the themostat like you mentioned earlier.

one noticeable thing ive seen with SRs in their general operating temps is the type of gas used. here in vegas we can get 100 octane and E85 at the pumps. both (especially 100) seem to lower the normal operating temp of the engine by at least 10 degs during normal driving and help massively with engine stability and acceleration as the SR was tuned for Japan and European octane ratings... not the shit we have in the US. 91/93 is nice and all, but the SR was made to run on no less than 95 from everything ive learned over the years with friends in Japan. the gas we have here is a joke to be honest.

but yeah, its all in personal preference and you will need to experiment. ive run an OEM clutch fan and shroud with a Koyo 55mm aluminum radiator since i can remember with my SR and have had ZERO cooling issues with it. if you want to get REALLY down and dirty, an oil cooler is the kittens mittens! oil coolers are a HUGE thing on SRs, talk about stabilizing your engines general temps... they are nuts. friend of mine had one on his fully built S14 drift car and the thing NEVER NEVER NEVER got hot!!! i took it for 5-6 full runs around the track at wide open throttle, the coolant temp never budged once! oil temps went up a few degrees, but settled right down once the car idled for a few moments!

[ixfxi]

it should be common sense that people run the proper weight oil for this car, right? I would hope so. All people need to do is read the FSM.

i never had overheating issues, ever. it all just depends on how you configure things. besides, the efans are only used at low speeds - they never activate past what... 15mph? i've never had a situation where the fans turn on at speed.

even at the track, the only problem i had was my turbo coming loose from the manifold - but thats another issue of its own. locking hardware becomes critical if you track your car.

i'll agree though, oil cooler certainly helps things

[corkscrew]

180-195

100% water in the cooling system. stock fan, no shroud. florida heat

[indomiekid1]

I’m running the clutch fan/shroud, 50/50 coolant, and copper radiator – no problems---EVER!

[jamg]

errrrrrr

when you are at cruising speed, the effect of the clutch/E fan becomes minimal, no?

it works best when the car is at a stop light, but air is passes through the car while you are at a higher rate of speed. ducting the air would be a better solution.

[ixfxi]

both efan and/or clutch fan are useless when moving at higher speeds.

whats more important is that you run a quality radiator that is not plugged up inside AND does not have bent fits.

i dont know why anyone would run 100% water as coolant is needed to lubricate the water pump and prevents corrosion

its interesting to see that there is a lot of confusion among the community here.

[KiLLeR2001]

For spring/summer/fall I like to use 100% distilled water + a full bottle of water wetter. During winter I'll usually switch to a 50/50 water/coolant mix.

[TheRealSy90]

After doing what I thought would be a good cooling setup, now I can't get my car to warm up hardly. Cruising around town it sits under 100 F which is as low as my temp gauge reads. I can get it up to 130 F if I pretty much top it out in fifth gear, but then as soon as I slow down it's back to 100F or less. I think I need to go back to an oem thermostat.

Nismo thermostat. Koyorad, oem clutch fan and shroud with the bottom and side add on pieces. NRG cooling panel. Temp sensor is in the lower hose, i'm going to install a defi temp gauge in the upper hose as well. This is with 50/50 mix, I used to run straight distilled water with 1 bottle of water wetter until I did the koyorad.

[RalliartRsX]

TheRealSy90, typically speaking, there should only be a 10 F difference between the inlet and outlet. However, a probe in the outlet of the block (upper water neck) is the appropriate place for readings, so I would move your probe before I do anything else and have a proper baseline.

100F seems extremely low (especially considering your AZ location) and I would be more worried of incorrect readings due to probe placement

[ixfxi]

Temp sensor is in the lower hose

TheRealSy90, typically speaking, there should only be a 10 F difference between the inlet and outlet. However, a probe in the outlet of the block (upper water neck) is the appropriate place for readings, so I would move your probe before I do anything else and have a proper baseline.

your sensor is in the wrong location. you WILL not get useful readings from that sensor location.

the sensor needs to be located pre thermostat, i would suggest the stock location.

[zombiewolf513]

Only 10 degrees difference between inlet and outlet doesnt seem accurate. The cold side of my radiator can be grabbed at operating temp, but the hot side will burn your hand. 100*F IS extremely low for normal driving conditions. But if the sensor is in the lower radiator hose your temp reading is going to be much lower than the upper hose. I suggest the upper hose for a temp reading, so you know the hottest the water is getting, not the coolest.

[KiLLeR2001]

No. You want the sensor in the lower hose so you know what temperature is entering into the motor. Why would you care about whats coming out of the motor when its going to be getting cooled down by the radiator?

[RalliartRsX]

No. You want the sensor in the lower hose so you know what temperature is entering into the motor. Why would you care about whats coming out of the motor when its going to be getting cooled down by the radiator?


Because you need to know just how the engine is heating up the coolant or just how efficiently the cooling system is working.

Think about it: Placing it in the lower hose will tell you absolutely nothing in regards to how much heat is being transferred into your coolant (essentially). Now, with this, since that figure (heat transfer rate. Probably not very linear), given the boost/power level will be fairly consistent for a given coolant flow, if for whatever reason your outlet coolant temps are high, if you lower the first part of the equation, since its proportional, that means your ending temp will be lower by default.

You have to work on what the engine itself is doing in regards to transferring heat to the coolant as that is the object you are focused on cooling and having inlet temperatures give you no reference on heat transfer rate.

Think about it a again. How do you even know how much the radiator itself is cooling (if its even working) if you have no reference inlet temp (outlet of the engine/upper outlet) to begin with ;)

[KiLLeR2001]

I don't really have the time to argue for another few pages so I will just lay it out in order of best to worst locations for your temp sensor.

1. OEM temp sensor location, will accurately tell you the temperature going into the engine, regardless of the thermo's current state (open/close).
2. Lower hose, will be a little less accurate, especially if the thermo hasn't opened yet.
3. Upper hose/outlet, by far the least accurate, will make you think your car is overheating when its not. And because of it you will be cooling the car too much.

I use to think the upper hose area would be the best spot for the temp sensor, and then I graduated from high school.

[corby_baby]

I don't really have the time to argue for another few pages so I will just lay it out in order of best to worst locations for your temp sensor.

1. OEM temp sensor location, will accurately tell you the temperature going into the engine, regardless of the thermo's current state (open/close).
2. Lower hose, will be a little less accurate, especially if the thermo hasn't opened yet.
3. Upper hose/outlet, by far the least accurate, will make you think your car is overheating when its not. And because of it you will be cooling the car too much.

I use to think the upper hose area would be the best spot for the temp sensor, and then I graduated from high school.

wrong. upper hose is the proper place.

[zombiewolf513]

Why do I care if my coolant is 83* C on the cold side if Im boiling it on the hot side because the thermostat is seized?

I'd rather think Im overheating when Im not as opposed to overheating and not knowing it.

Whats up Corby? its white rice :wavey:

[ixfxi]

I don't really have the time to argue for another few pages so I will just lay it out in order of best to worst locations for your temp sensor.


wrong. upper hose is the proper place.

you guys are _fucking_ wrong


first off, i've experimented and have had the sensor mounted in quite possibly, every location known to man. i've had it mounted on the block's coolant passage. i've had it mounted on the outlet after the thermostat. i've had it on the cold side of the radiator.

what you want to monitor is the coolant temp at the head, PRE THERMOSTAT. this means, use the stock location and you'll be just fine.

if for whatever reason that is not an option, the hot side is acceptable. however, it will be dead cold and you wont have any readings until the thermostat opens. the fun thing about this setup is it tells you that your thermostat is working right.

last and worst location is the cold side. your readings will be totally delayed. the values you will get are still usable, but vague. on cold days when the thermostat closes you will have very cold readings.

[e1_griego]

+1.

Had sensor in all spots, stock location is what I prefer. I figure, if Nissan engineers decided that was the right spot for the stock sender, then that's where I should put my sender. I think I put more faith in Nissan r&d than most people, though.

[zombiewolf513]

Whats the thread pitch on both sensor ports?

[RalliartRsX]

+1.

Had sensor in all spots, stock location is what I prefer. I figure, if Nissan engineers decided that was the right spot for the stock sender, then that's where I should put my sender. I think I put more faith in Nissan r&d than most people, though.

+2

I actually data log both ports (upper and stock Nissan location) as Nissan engineers get it right about 99% of the time of anyone else I speak to and the aftermarket :bigok: .

One thing I did notice however is in the upper radiator hose, the temperature reading in comparison to the ECU was about 10 degrees higher (with a standard deviation of +/- 2 degrees F) than what the ecu was reading from the stock location

[TheRealSy90]

your sensor is in the wrong location. you WILL not get useful readings from that sensor location.

the sensor needs to be located pre thermostat, i would suggest the stock location.

Ahem, isn't the lower hose PRE themostat? And I want to retain the oem temp gauge so i'd rather not remove the oem temp sensor... I can't see there being much of a difference in temps wether it's in the oem spot, or 8 inches away in the lower hose right before the thermostat housing...

[RalliartRsX]

I will just leave this image here. If you look at the coolant track (and I am thinking about this right), the coolant the temp sensor seas should be the same (or close) by the thermostat as it is by the upper outlet?? I am assuming the two nipples at top are coolant sensor port for both ECU and gauge cluster

http://www.nissanroadracing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=233&d=1304495175

[ixfxi]

Ahem, isn't the lower hose PRE themostat? And I want to retain the oem temp gauge so i'd rather not remove the oem temp sensor... I can't see there being much of a difference in temps wether it's in the oem spot, or 8 inches away in the lower hose right before the thermostat housing...

thank you - you ask me, excellent, excellent question. you are one of the all intelligent users on zilvia

it depends on which motor we're talking about. thermostats simply control the flow and can be installed on either the cold side or hot side. whats important is that the thermostat is in the engine coolant stream. this way it actuates accurately based on coolant temp.

the way i did it on my sr20det is that i trashed the oem sending unit and installed my vdo sender there. you can either re-thread the port or in my case, re-thread the sending unit and use a crush washer. remember, the oem sending unit and gauge are totally inaccurate. scan tools, FC commander, etc.. get their readings from the ECU temp sending unit (3 wire sensor) that is mounted directly next to the gauge sending unit.


Whats the thread pitch on both sensor ports?

http://www.frsport.com/images/detailed_images/FAE_3158_004%20copy_12757.jpg
^ m10x1.0 - gauge sending unit


http://www.enjukuracing.com/product_images/b/942/oemsrcoolanttemp_full__16215_zoom.jpg
^ m12x1.5 - ecu sending unit

i'm going by memory here, so dont hold me to these measurements

[KiLLeR2001]

scan tools, FC commander, etc.. get their readings from the ECU temp sending unit (3 wire sensor) that is mounted directly next to the gauge sending unit.

Coolant temp sensor on the KA/SR is definitely two wire. I think the unit itself is grounded and the two wires coming out of the sensor are power and signal. The temperature switch for the gauge cluster is one wire.

Let's not forget that from the factory cars with A/C have a temperature sensor in the lower hose.

[RalliartRsX]

the way i did it on my sr20det is that i trashed the oem sending unit and installed my vdo sender there. you can either re-thread the port or in my case, re-thread the sending unit and use a crush washer. remember, the oem sending unit and gauge are totally inaccurate.........

So I was under that same impression for a while, but this is somewhat inaccurate (escuse the pun). It's not that they are inaccurate, the range of motion of the stock cluster sending unit is not entirely linear. So, it will mostly show in the "middle" for a temp range of say 180-220. Outside of that range, the range of motion is different.

A friend of mine did this test recently (probes in both upper/lower hose as well as stock probe) and the temp gauge itself was shown to be fairly accurate in it's calibrated range. Now, is this range useful for a non-stock engine?? That is left up to interpretation :o

[RalliartRsX]

I don't really have the time to argue for another few pages so I will just lay it out in order of best to worst locations for your temp sensor.

1. OEM temp sensor location, will accurately tell you the temperature going into the engine, regardless of the thermo's current state (open/close).
2. Lower hose, will be a little less accurate, especially if the thermo hasn't opened yet.
3. Upper hose/outlet, by far the least accurate, will make you think your car is overheating when its not. And because of it you will be cooling the car too much.

I use to think the upper hose area would be the best spot for the temp sensor, and then I graduated from high school.



And this right here proves nothing about location........

I refuse to follow the advice of someone who ends a debate with ".......and then I graduated high school", especially with widely general and blanket opinions and statements throughout your argument.........

[KiLLeR2001]

I refuse to follow the advice of someone who ends a debate with ".......and then I graduated high school", especially with widely general and blanket opinions and statements throughout your argument.........

Very well, but I refuse to follow the advice of someone who's online forum name is the combination of a shitty car company's performance division and a Honda chick car, the Acura RSX.

[RalliartRsX]

Very well, but I refuse to follow the advice of someone who's online forum name is the combination of a shitty car company's performance division and a Honda chick car, the Acura RSX.

Incorrect on both fronts..........

Back on topic:
I am not saying I am right. But please prove me wrong. I also posted the coolant flow path which explains what flow path of coolant behind the thermostat, upper/lower inlet, etc is. If you want to have a discussion, can you tell me if the two "nipples" in my picture from the FSM are for temp probes? If so, then, as my assumption, the temp behind the thermostat is the same that is exiting the head (read: upper radiator hose or close to the temp of the coolant temp exit on the upper hose), which in turn, means your lower hose placement of the probe is incorrect as the temp pre thermostat (lower hose) would be different as temp post thermostat (exit of head).

Meaning: your probe location would be incorrect........But again, prove me wrong as I am trying to convery correct information here and not just throwing around blanket statements

[KiLLeR2001]

Back on topic:
I am not saying I am right. But please prove me wrong. I also posted the coolant flow path which explains what flow path of coolant behind the thermostat, upper/lower inlet, etc is. If you want to have a discussion, can you tell me if the two "nipples" in my picture from the FSM are for temp probes? If so, then, as my assumption, the temp behind the thermostat is the same that is exiting the head (read: upper radiator hose or close to the temp of the coolant temp exit on the upper hose), which in turn, means your lower hose placement of the probe is incorrect as the temp pre thermostat would be different as temp post thermostat.

Meaning: your probe location would be incorrect........But again, prove me wrong as I am trying to convery correct information here

The picture you posted doesn't work, so start off by fixing that.

I am simply going off the fact of OEM locations where temperature is read.

Coolant temp sensor and temperature switch are in the waterneck after thermostat.

A/C temp sensor is in the lower hose.

There is no temp sensor in the outlet / upper hose. And I don't know of any make/model that takes a temperature reading coming out of the outlet for the main ECU temperature sensor (most accurate temps) from the factory. Not saying they don't exist, but I don't know of one.

I swear this argument is like the goddamn cold vs hot side BOV location.

[RalliartRsX]

What I am saying is, go look up the FSM and the coolant track (the picture is directly from there). If you are assuming directly behind the thermostat is what is leaving the radiatoras opposed to what is leaving the head, then there is an issue.

Just go look up the FSM and come back to me as unless you have the correct flow path, you have no idea what is directly behind the thermostat..........

The image has been redirected to below. Look at the FSM image below and tell me what flow path is right behind the thermostat?? Also, are the two "prings" above the thermostat the temp probes?? Because if so, that shows its the coolant leaving the head the probes are measuring.......

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r298/Forenz/CoolantCircuitSR20det.jpg

[KiLLeR2001]

I guess the only thing left to do is put a temperature sensor in the inlet and put one in the outlet. If the temperatures read the same, then you would be correct. If they are any different, even 1 degree, you are wrong. Confident enough to conduct this experiment? Willing to move your ECU temp sensor from the stock location to the outlet and see how differently your car runs?

Sorry buddy, but there are a lot more factors involved than just flow pattern.

[RalliartRsX]

Sorry, I must have edited when you posted.

And my question regarding the two "prongs" in the picture?? If those two elements are indeed probes, then they are reading outlet temps.

[unijabnx2000]

Dont use Autozone type Thermos, Only OEM/Nismo Ones

x2 only OEM

[zombiewolf513]

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r298/Forenz/CoolantCircuitSR20det.jpg

If that's accurate, there would be no difference between having the sensor in the stock location and in the outlet.

[RalliartRsX]

Thank you zombie. I would personally follow the FSM as compared to following "opinion". Now, this is assuming the FSM "prongs" are indeed probes (which I am 90% sure they are).

[ixfxi]

A/C temp sensor is in the lower hose.

calm down killer, thats not a temp sensor - thats a thermoswitch.

the thing you guys are missing is: what coolant flow is effecting the thermostat?
answer: the coolant that flows through the head and block.

this is the coolant that you want to monitor when it comes to temperature. this is where the stock sensors are located, regardless if they are 1 wire, 2 wire or 3 wire, etc... all the sensors are located there.

as for the OEM gauge, they serve little to no purpose as they do not have markings and cannot provide accurate readings. you're better off acquiring your readings from an obd2 port or via fc commander, etc... OR, a proper coolant temp gauge that reads from the stock location.


killer, the only purpose to mounting a sensor on the hot pipe or cold pipe (to and from the radiator) would be to monitor the radiator's performance. i've already done both and can tell you that the reading from the cold side is the least accurate. the reading from the hot side is better. but the best sensor location should be in the coolant flow path (block or head) behind the thermostat.

[TheRealSy90]

Hmm, I wonder if either my autometer temp sensor or my Defi temp sensor will thread into the oem gauge sensor location? It's just going to bug the shit out of me having the factory guage not doing anything regardless if it's accurate or not...

[ixfxi]

sometimes the resistance value of the aftermarket sending unit will crossover and give the OE gauge a usable value so that it works like stock

basically, worse comes to worse - install the aftermarket sending unit in the stock location. install the stock sending unit somewhere else where accuracy is not a concern.

[TheRealSy90]

But there isn't anywhere else to put a temp sensor according to this thread lol.

[ixfxi]

of course there is. the debate we were all having solely had to do with one thing: accuracy

when used with the stock gauge, the oem sending unit is not accurate - so its not as critical. simply install it on the hot side (upper hose) and be done with.

come on man, gotta use your noggin

[RalliartRsX]

But there isn't anywhere else to put a temp sensor according to this thread lol.


I highly recommend you read the thread over again, as if the temp probe is indeed reading what is coming out of the head, you can place the probe in the outlet.

OR, you can do below (drill and tap the stock housing)

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o20/2Fass240us/Project_240/CoolantSender_04.jpg

There is more than one way to skin a cat ;)

[Kingtal0n]

I swear this argument is like the goddamn cold vs hot side BOV location.

Oh, you mean the one where a manufacturer of turbochargers "GARRET" Recommends that they be placed as close as possible to the compressor outlet, and still 51% of people still blindly insist it goes on the cold side?

couldnt resist. :D

I like the water temp reading coming out of the engine. I want to know if my new timing settings are heating up the water, as a tuning technique, one can see that a 30 second 5th gear pull with 12* of timing vs 6* of timing there is a difference of 20*C final temperature rise after 30 seconds of boosting in 5th.

[jamg]

Oh, you mean the one where a manufacturer of turbochargers "GARRET" Recommends that they be placed as close as possible to the compressor outlet, and still 51% of people still blindly insist it goes on the cold side?

couldnt resist. :D

I like the water temp reading coming out of the engine. I want to know if my new timing settings are heating up the water, as a tuning technique, one can see that a 30 second 5th gear pull with 12* of timing vs 6* of timing there is a difference of 20*C final temperature rise after 30 seconds of boosting in 5th.

my IC piping had it on the cold side... you're telling me it's on the wrong side?

wat.

[jr_ss]

My Defi sensor is in the upper coolant neck, which is also the coolant out to the radiator from the head. I have a slightly different engine configuration being that I have a VVL setup. My temp readout on the Haltech(which is in the "factory" position) reads 1-2degrees different from the Defi sensor. The upper outlet gives you a better indication of what your engine temps are. Why would you want to know how cool the coolant is going back into the motor, other than to see how efficient your radiator/fan setup is?

[ixfxi]

Oh, you mean the one where a manufacturer of turbochargers "GARRET" Recommends that they be placed as close as possible to the compressor outlet, and still 51% of people still blindly insist it goes on the cold side?


The Blow-Off valve (BOV) is a pressure relief device on the intake tract to prevent the turbo’s compressor from going into surge. The BOV should be installed between the compressor discharge and the throttle body, preferably downstream of the charge air cooler (if equipped). When the throttle is closed rapidly, the airflow is quickly reduced, causing flow instability and pressure fluctuations. These rapidly cycling pressure fluctuations are the audible evidence of surge. Surge can eventually lead to thrust bearing failure due to the high loads associated with it.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/blow_off_valves

downstream of the cooler = near the TB

[jr_ss]

Why Mike, must you add fuel to the fire?

He read it in a book, so it must be true. I'm sure he'll come in here with some math equations, that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand or anything in general, proving you are wrong if you calculate them.

But it is funny...

[ixfxi]

My Defi sensor is in the upper coolant neck, which is also the coolant out to the radiator from the head. I have a slightly different engine configuration being that I have a VVL setup. My temp readout on the Haltech(which is in the "factory" position) reads 1-2degrees different from the Defi sensor. The upper outlet gives you a better indication of what your engine temps are. Why would you want to know how cool the coolant is going back into the motor, other than to see how efficient your radiator/fan setup is?

well, you gotta leave some room for variance as no sensor gives you 100% accuracy. its always +/- a certain amount


Why Mike, must you add fuel to the fire?

He read it in a book, so it must be true. I'm sure he'll come in here with some math equations, that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand or anything in general, proving you are wrong if you calculate them.

But it is funny...

well, since that last thread ive written him off as the village idiot

[jr_ss]

well, you gotta leave some room for variance as no sensor gives you 100% accuracy. its always +/- a certain amount

I agree, you'll always have a variance, even with the same sensors. I was simply making the point that it is in fact the same "coolant" as what the factory temp sensor sees.

well, since that last thread ive written him off as the village idiot

He's a character that's for sure.

[Kaifd3s]

Update, threw in the Nismo thermo and a new OEM waterpump. I put in around 30% coolant and 70% distilled water with a bottle of Water Wetter. This car in normal driving barely sees over 85C, its usually between 75C-85C. When I throw on the A/C the car gets around 90-95C.

Is that around the normal temps for when the air conditioning is on? Was wondering if that was too high.



http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm184/REsuperg2/10352197_4320705712194_5457627426649636652_n.jpg

My girl even surprised me with a gift. (For all you gamers out there)

[TheRealSy90]

If I don't want to remove my stock sensors from the housing, isn't the lower hose as close as I can get to it? Installed my yashio factory water pump pulley, 110 outside on the way home from work about a 40 minute drive, temps stayed around 165-170 in the lower hose cruising at 60mph.

[RalliartRsX]

If I don't want to remove my stock sensors from the housing, isn't the lower hose as close as I can get to it? Installed my yashio factory water pump pulley, 110 outside on the way home from work about a 40 minute drive, temps stayed around 165-170 in the lower hose cruising at 60mph.

Please read the thread again. All the information is listed.

Short of the answer: NO, the lower hose is the incorrect placement for the sensor (which has been said several times over and I posted a coolant path diagram from the FSM...................)

[TheRealSy90]

Oh well. I don't want to remove my factory sensors. Guess i'll live with it.

[RalliartRsX]

Oh well. I don't want to remove my factory sensors. Guess i'll live with it.

Dude, read the thread! Placing it in the top hose has nothing to do with removing factory sensors (and placing it in your current location gives you inaccurate readings)...........:facepalm:

However, its your car and you can do as you please...........

[livelovesole]

I live in New York

- Chuki frontend ( Cut )
- Isis Radiator w/ dual e-fans
- Samco hoses
- Nismo thermostat
- Stance oversized water pump pulley
- Radiator cooling panel

Driving from home to work and around I average about 158-170. I do plan on running a breather tank in the near future so that it constantly bleeds the radiator, deffitnitly a good investment.

[RalliartRsX]

In all honesty, daily running temps mean have little meaning if your coolant temps in boost is through the roof.............

[zombiewolf513]

>Upper waterneck.<

In all honesty, daily running temps mean have little meaning if your coolant temps in boost is through the roof.............

Having accurate temp readings at all times is important.


Zilvians have now gone from 'Cannot search for a topic' to 'Cannot draw conclusion from thread'

[TheRealSy90]

Dude, read the thread! Placing it in the top hose has nothing to do with removing factory sensors (and placing it in your current location gives you inaccurate readings)...........:facepalm:

However, its your car and you can do as you please...........

Top hose? My temp sensor is in the bottom hose. I was referencing the picture you posted of the temp sensor replacing the gauge cluster sensor in the thermostat housing. Which is what I don't want to remove.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o20/2Fass240us/Project_240/CoolantSender_04.jpg

[zombiewolf513]

Then put it in the upper hose.

[aga]

interesting thread. i am switching back to clutch fan and shroud myself, with gktech's fan blades. i was impressed by that article , what it said about ducting. i guess it's time to get the measuring tape out and do some work!

[RalliartRsX]

>Upper waterneck.<



Having accurate temp readings at all times is important.


Zilvians have now gone from 'Cannot search for a topic' to 'Cannot draw conclusion from thread'

Agreed with bolded statement. What I am getting at is all these posts about running this and that mod, they have no baseline, no in boost runs (even so no flow data), etc but yet, they are stating all these mods work and all and have no clue what the hell is doing what :duh:

The biggest difference I see as far as temps are concerned (be it in boost or regular driving) is DUCT WORK! Not a Nismo thermo, upper panel, etc.

Lower engine panel
Ducting intercooler
Ducting the sides between the opening on the bumper and the condenser/radiator (big gaping gaps on both sides)
etc.

Not many people here are willing to take a few hours and some thinking to do it however........even though its the cheapest most effective mod for aiding in cooling (the panel I made cost me about $30. The aftermarket upper cooling panel is on average 50-100........and it does nothing without the other duct work)

[ixfxi]

Top hose? My temp sensor is in the bottom hose.

dude, quit being a fucking moron. stop for a second and think about the way the system works.

I've attached some retard-spec photos for you. You really shouldnt have any questions after this.