Mikester
05-15-2014, 11:18 AM
Hello all,
I'm an old guy, so this will start with a riveting tale of a boy with a dream lol.
As some may know, a good, schedule steel manifold with a lifetime warranty is about as good as it gets... Hence why Full Race is at the top of the food chain... hands down the best manifolds out there; and their goodies are priced accordingly.
Those interested... Be advised that ANY typical, [non-cast] mandrel bent tubular turbine manifold has a service life due to design. If you visit the track regularly and get 4-5 good years out yours, you chose wisely. This is exactly why paying $500-600 or more for a tubular manifold is probably not the smartest choice for the average un-sponsored Joe like myself... because many tubular manifolds... even many of the 'brand name' products do not last that long before cracking. And those of you who don't use the support bracket that accompanies most standard SR tubulars will notice yours will crack even sooner yet.
Moving on- For non-moving parts, I am ALL ABOUT saving a few bucks in the name of similar performance with the same and/or easier form, fit and function. That being said- Forget all about those 'other' [eBay] substitutes (we all know who they are) when it comes to your SR20DET turbine manifold. I ran my XS Power tubular manifold for 9yrs before it finally gave out... Pretty sure that qualifies as 'getting my $120 worth' :) It was the standard 'OEM Replacement' that has very large, 48mm runners & 2.8mm thick walls... the welds were quite nice and the fitment was SPOT-ON. Here is a pic of it during my build... I had beaten on it for 4yrs in Okinawa at that point- and had it Jet-Hot'd prior to putting it back on the motor (why it looks new in the pic):
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7248/8156591193_19ff2c061d_c_d.jpg
Installed:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7400/9121407505_43b23dbf64_z_d.jpg
Fast forward to recently...
Okay, so going back to the fact that the manifold pictured above finally died a couple weeks ago after a long, dutiful life... at a VERY inopportune time I might add lol... it seemed a no-brainer to go right back to ssautochrome.com and order another of the exact same one as it had served me very well.
First thing I will say about SS Autochrome is that their shipping is RIDICULOUSLY fast. I ordered on a Sunday- new manifold was at my door Tuesday when I got home from work.
This time around, there was a mixup in the shipping; and I got the wrong manifold by mistake. I sent them an email asking to return for the OEM replacement... Their email response was very prompt; and instead of a replacement of what I had ordered, they sent me something I would have NEVER expected from SS Autochrome/XS Power:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7452/14004530298_fa484d8c69_d.jpg
^^150 free ponies lol^^
...and this:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2937/14191197135_d5439194a5_z_d.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5559/13947144559_f3ae487855_z_d.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5475/14133814715_0d22081506_z_d.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5559/13947144559_f3ae487855_d.jpg
* Cast schedule steel, back purged, plug & play OEM replacement tubular manifold!!!
PRELIMINARY REVIEW
Knowing little/nothing about metallurgy... I immediately took it over to Andy (my builder/fabricator, whom I consider a qualified expert) for inspection.
According to Andy:
- Weld quality is very good. A couple tight spots missed, but still welded on the inside and will not fail anytime soon
- Surprised this came from XS Power!
- Should last quite a while- large runners, tube walls nearly 1/8" thick
- Although clearly not Full Race, it is definitely well- built
Upon further dialogue with XS, they informed me that this manifold has a lifetime warranty to boot (score!!!)! Quite excited, I hauled ass home to start piecing it together.
I did a test-fit to the manifold studs- Everything lined up nicely.
Went upstairs to clean everything up and start mating it to the turbine. The manifold came with new studs, but I chose to re-use the ones that came with my turbine and use a couple of them on the 5-bolt outlet side to replace some that were in rough shape. Along with some Permatex, the studs screwed in very securely with no play evident when tightened.
The kit also came with decent grafoil 4-bolt and manifold-to-head gaskets & 2 different kinds of nuts (self-locking and standard for those of us who use the locking plates). However, I still had brand new OEM Nissan metal gaskets and MLS manifold gasket, so I opted to use them instead.
The flange to flange support bracket was a very tight fit, and I feel the kit should have come with M8 lockwashers to accompany the M8 x 1.25 bolts. Without lockwashers, they will back out over time (ask me how I learned this lol)... Using High-Temp Permatex here as well, the bracket goes in extremely securely; and has a newer shape to accommodate getting your wrench to the bolt heads.
Here you can see the support bracket installed:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7336/14187894431_e63ce02093_c_d.jpg
Once I got the support bracket in, I moved to the 4-bolt flange. Here I had a little bit of difficulty getting the gasket over the studs- one of them was a hair off. With some very light tapping, I was able to get the gasket planted to the mating surface.
Same thing when mating the turbine to the manifold- the turbine flange is already overbored to accommodate, but the fit was a little too tight IMO. Once I got the studs as lined up as could be, I was able to wrench them together using the nuts to pull everything together. It was BARELY off- no damage to the threads, bent studs or anything- more annoying than anything. At that point, it was typical clockwork- everything came together & seems to have sealed up nice & tightly. Stopped here & emailed XS to tell them they need to measure the 4-bolt stud holes a little more accurately.
Here is the tight spot (right under where #1 runner meets collector at flange) where a bit of the welding was missed:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7373/14004573627_9ae846cc51_c_d.jpg
Tough to get the camera in there lol... From the opposite side (about 3/4 of the way up the manifold side of the flange):
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7350/14004537120_bd81b5c00b_c_d.jpg
More pics:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5478/14187890791_c237939570_z_d.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5151/14191191875_65df95053a_z_d.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5311/14168037266_80ce953959_z_d.jpg
So far, my preliminary comments are as follows:
PROS:
- Schedule 40 stainless steel
- Lifetime Warranty
- Good quality workmanship, back-purged welds
- Thick tube walls
- New support bracket much nicer than old
- Good fitment to cylinder head exhaust manifold studs
- Plugs & plays- no additional mods required
- Aesthetically pleasing
CONS:
- Minor fitment issue at flange
- Missed weld under #1 runner
- Support bracket holes need to be slightly larger diameter
- No lockwashers included for support bracket bolts
That's about all I can say for now- Going home to start the installation in about 4hrs. Very excited. Will continue review with installation, startup etc.
So far, I really like it! SS Autochrome/XS Power has definitely stepped up their game with this thing!
Again, XS was very responsive when I brought up the missed weld, lack of M8 lockwashers & flange stud measurements- Niether of which appear to anything more than annoyances so foar. Be that as it may, the proof is in the pudding- More to come~
--Mike
I'm an old guy, so this will start with a riveting tale of a boy with a dream lol.
As some may know, a good, schedule steel manifold with a lifetime warranty is about as good as it gets... Hence why Full Race is at the top of the food chain... hands down the best manifolds out there; and their goodies are priced accordingly.
Those interested... Be advised that ANY typical, [non-cast] mandrel bent tubular turbine manifold has a service life due to design. If you visit the track regularly and get 4-5 good years out yours, you chose wisely. This is exactly why paying $500-600 or more for a tubular manifold is probably not the smartest choice for the average un-sponsored Joe like myself... because many tubular manifolds... even many of the 'brand name' products do not last that long before cracking. And those of you who don't use the support bracket that accompanies most standard SR tubulars will notice yours will crack even sooner yet.
Moving on- For non-moving parts, I am ALL ABOUT saving a few bucks in the name of similar performance with the same and/or easier form, fit and function. That being said- Forget all about those 'other' [eBay] substitutes (we all know who they are) when it comes to your SR20DET turbine manifold. I ran my XS Power tubular manifold for 9yrs before it finally gave out... Pretty sure that qualifies as 'getting my $120 worth' :) It was the standard 'OEM Replacement' that has very large, 48mm runners & 2.8mm thick walls... the welds were quite nice and the fitment was SPOT-ON. Here is a pic of it during my build... I had beaten on it for 4yrs in Okinawa at that point- and had it Jet-Hot'd prior to putting it back on the motor (why it looks new in the pic):
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7248/8156591193_19ff2c061d_c_d.jpg
Installed:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7400/9121407505_43b23dbf64_z_d.jpg
Fast forward to recently...
Okay, so going back to the fact that the manifold pictured above finally died a couple weeks ago after a long, dutiful life... at a VERY inopportune time I might add lol... it seemed a no-brainer to go right back to ssautochrome.com and order another of the exact same one as it had served me very well.
First thing I will say about SS Autochrome is that their shipping is RIDICULOUSLY fast. I ordered on a Sunday- new manifold was at my door Tuesday when I got home from work.
This time around, there was a mixup in the shipping; and I got the wrong manifold by mistake. I sent them an email asking to return for the OEM replacement... Their email response was very prompt; and instead of a replacement of what I had ordered, they sent me something I would have NEVER expected from SS Autochrome/XS Power:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7452/14004530298_fa484d8c69_d.jpg
^^150 free ponies lol^^
...and this:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2937/14191197135_d5439194a5_z_d.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5559/13947144559_f3ae487855_z_d.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5475/14133814715_0d22081506_z_d.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5559/13947144559_f3ae487855_d.jpg
* Cast schedule steel, back purged, plug & play OEM replacement tubular manifold!!!
PRELIMINARY REVIEW
Knowing little/nothing about metallurgy... I immediately took it over to Andy (my builder/fabricator, whom I consider a qualified expert) for inspection.
According to Andy:
- Weld quality is very good. A couple tight spots missed, but still welded on the inside and will not fail anytime soon
- Surprised this came from XS Power!
- Should last quite a while- large runners, tube walls nearly 1/8" thick
- Although clearly not Full Race, it is definitely well- built
Upon further dialogue with XS, they informed me that this manifold has a lifetime warranty to boot (score!!!)! Quite excited, I hauled ass home to start piecing it together.
I did a test-fit to the manifold studs- Everything lined up nicely.
Went upstairs to clean everything up and start mating it to the turbine. The manifold came with new studs, but I chose to re-use the ones that came with my turbine and use a couple of them on the 5-bolt outlet side to replace some that were in rough shape. Along with some Permatex, the studs screwed in very securely with no play evident when tightened.
The kit also came with decent grafoil 4-bolt and manifold-to-head gaskets & 2 different kinds of nuts (self-locking and standard for those of us who use the locking plates). However, I still had brand new OEM Nissan metal gaskets and MLS manifold gasket, so I opted to use them instead.
The flange to flange support bracket was a very tight fit, and I feel the kit should have come with M8 lockwashers to accompany the M8 x 1.25 bolts. Without lockwashers, they will back out over time (ask me how I learned this lol)... Using High-Temp Permatex here as well, the bracket goes in extremely securely; and has a newer shape to accommodate getting your wrench to the bolt heads.
Here you can see the support bracket installed:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7336/14187894431_e63ce02093_c_d.jpg
Once I got the support bracket in, I moved to the 4-bolt flange. Here I had a little bit of difficulty getting the gasket over the studs- one of them was a hair off. With some very light tapping, I was able to get the gasket planted to the mating surface.
Same thing when mating the turbine to the manifold- the turbine flange is already overbored to accommodate, but the fit was a little too tight IMO. Once I got the studs as lined up as could be, I was able to wrench them together using the nuts to pull everything together. It was BARELY off- no damage to the threads, bent studs or anything- more annoying than anything. At that point, it was typical clockwork- everything came together & seems to have sealed up nice & tightly. Stopped here & emailed XS to tell them they need to measure the 4-bolt stud holes a little more accurately.
Here is the tight spot (right under where #1 runner meets collector at flange) where a bit of the welding was missed:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7373/14004573627_9ae846cc51_c_d.jpg
Tough to get the camera in there lol... From the opposite side (about 3/4 of the way up the manifold side of the flange):
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7350/14004537120_bd81b5c00b_c_d.jpg
More pics:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5478/14187890791_c237939570_z_d.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5151/14191191875_65df95053a_z_d.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5311/14168037266_80ce953959_z_d.jpg
So far, my preliminary comments are as follows:
PROS:
- Schedule 40 stainless steel
- Lifetime Warranty
- Good quality workmanship, back-purged welds
- Thick tube walls
- New support bracket much nicer than old
- Good fitment to cylinder head exhaust manifold studs
- Plugs & plays- no additional mods required
- Aesthetically pleasing
CONS:
- Minor fitment issue at flange
- Missed weld under #1 runner
- Support bracket holes need to be slightly larger diameter
- No lockwashers included for support bracket bolts
That's about all I can say for now- Going home to start the installation in about 4hrs. Very excited. Will continue review with installation, startup etc.
So far, I really like it! SS Autochrome/XS Power has definitely stepped up their game with this thing!
Again, XS was very responsive when I brought up the missed weld, lack of M8 lockwashers & flange stud measurements- Niether of which appear to anything more than annoyances so foar. Be that as it may, the proof is in the pudding- More to come~
--Mike