Can't wait for the Hate. Suspension question.

[Soilsack]

Alright, the first thing I want to say is that I do not want to start any coilovers vs. shock/spring arguments so please pay attention to what I say.

I have attempted to search but most of the answers I am looking for have not been stated. Let me explain my situation first.

I have a 1998 SE. I got some Infiniti G35 wheels 17x7.5/17x8. I am running 225/45 and 235/45. I am experiencing some rubbing when taking turns but only on the wheel well cover. The tires are making contact with it. I assume that I need some stiffer springs to counteract this but there are a few things I don't want. I do not want to drop my car to be "hellaflush", I do not want to have RUCA and toe rods, and I assume that I do not want coilovers. This car will never see a track, it is a weekend driver at best. I do not need max performance and actually do want some comfort mixed with some looks.

Now for the questions. I see that most of the options out there offer a drop in ride height regardless of spring rate. What is the most drop we can have before having to upgrade RUCA and toe rods?

I don't care about wheel gap but I don't want to tuck either, is there a better option out there to eliminate some of the wheel gap but not all of it? I am happy with a finger or two of clearance.

I am looking to use KYB AGX shocks/struts for the ease of damping adjustment. Where do these shocks max out? I read 50% greater than stock for spring rate but I don't know of ride height.

If anyone actually has input on this shock with a specific spring then please let me know about the reliability with that spring.

I have explored options from NISMO S Tune to Fortune Auto. I don't know if the S Tune will offer enough of a drop and I am actually scared of the minimum drop of 1.8 in on the Fortune Auto. I don't want to have to get smaller tires just because I want suspenstion. I also want to leave my wheel well guards in.

I am looking to improve the car while maintaining a somewhat stock appearance. I don't have anything against all of these flush cars, most look amazing. It just isn't my thing. I know practicality seems to be a foreign concept here but please keep in mind my request.

Thank you

[zooopreme]

I would suggest against lowering springs/shocks. People of this forum and mindset will assume that I mean "don't do it because the car will be so high" but I'm suggesting against a springs and shocks combo because the lack of suspension travel from the lowering springs and the work involved to set them up. Nothing sucks more than a spring compressor and having to get the top hat/spring perch on.

Having a drop of 1.8" isn't bad at all. It's near the height of most lowering springs without the loss of stroke for the dampers. You shouldn't have to remove any fender liners at this height--if they are properly installed. At that height, you will find yourself having natural negative camber from lowering the car. You'll find it hard to gain that back with stock arms. Aftermarket arms that come to mind at SPC. I have a set of their arms for my DD and they don't add stiffness like spherical bearings do and they get the job done with my moderate ride height.

Should you choose to go with a 1.8" drop, you will need aftermarket arms to get it back to stock specs. It's not possible to get back to exactly stock specs with stock arms. It's not THAT noticeable when measuring solely with your eyes but on an alignment machine, you'll notice it.

[Soilsack]

From what I see the NISMO S Tune Coilovers drop 1 inch. The Fortune Autos from an e-mail I sent shows about a 1.8" drop. So is there a happy medium? Or will I more than likely have to go with aftermarket RUCA regardless of drop?

The only reason I am exploring the sprig/shock is because I don't intend to go to a track (don't even know where any are). I don't want to get sideways either. Just want to stiffen up the ride. I did't think coils were needed but what you stated makes sense. More sense than "just save for coils, lol"

I could imagine if I go with the FA's they would be very happy with my intended purpose. Not riding the bumpstops and all.

Anyway, appreciate the help.

[zooopreme]

From what I remember, S-Tunes are hard to find and when you do find em, people want premium for them.

A happy medium between a 1" to 1.8" drop would be Tein S-Techs at 1.5" in the front and 1.2" in the rear. With Tein S-Techs, I could never get my alignment to match stock specs until I got aftermarket arms. I had them on with GR-2's, AGX's, and eventually with Koni Yellows. On each one, I wish I had more shock travel up front.

For the GR-2's, I had them for 2-ish years--slammed on the bumpstops for bad bumps and harsh roads before they blew (results may vary).

Can't speak too much about the AGX's as I tried to DD them but I kept hitting bumpstops like the GR-2's so I sold them.

For the Koni's, I still have them and they're nice--not the best value but they are decent; but like I said I just wish I had more shock travel.

I remedied my lack of front shock travel by building my fronts with Bilstein shock inserts + coilover sleeves but that's a different story for another time. I eventually plan to convert my Koni Yellows to coilover sleeves as well.

As for maximum drop before having to get aftermarket arms, I would imagine an inch would be the maximum. It only makes sense if Nissan matched S-Tunes along with stock arms.

Double and single tap coilovers on the S-Chassis makes sense, imo, because these cars suck aesthetically at stock height and while driving at stock height. Lowering springs take up much needed suspension travel. So by having a double tap coilover system like Fortune, your ride will benefit from having suspension travel (even if the stroke is shorter) and you'll look better doing it even if you aren't tracking it.

[fliprayzin240sx]

KYB shocks and Eibach sportlines.

[Soilsack]

Now, when you say that the springs take up shock travel, what do you mean exactly? Because the springs are lower the piston of the shock is already more compressed than on stock springs? Just wondering.

If that's the case I think I would be fairly happy with the FA's or any other coilover. PBM looks pretty rough, mixed reviews on Stance, Tein appears to be overpriced for what they are, Apexi and Cusco look about the same. Megans and Isis appear to be solid but I can't find much info on HOW they are made. Not sure though. Never ran a set of coils so I am just going off of research and construction of the damper as well as the spring rates.

I am sort of biased toward FA just because I can actually get a response from them and they valve the dampers according to spring rate selection.

[zooopreme]

Now, when you say that the springs take up shock travel, what do you mean exactly? Because the springs are lower the piston of the shock is already more compressed than on stock springs? Just wondering.

Precisely.

If that's the case I think I would be fairly happy with the FA's or any other coilover.

I wouldn't go with just "any other coilover" but hey, it's your money. I'm putting out suggestions based on the things you wanted in your first post and some assumptions about what you want out of your suspension.

Fortunately, I've owned and/or street tested most of the coilovers you listed in your post:

PBM looks pretty rough

I regret selling my Fortunes for PBM. It was solely to go lower and I don't even run my car that low any more lol. In a lot of coilover threads that I've posted in post-2012, I've said this. PBM dampers just aren't all that great for the street. They can withstand the abuses of drifting and daily driving but ride quality just flies out the window. They're alright.

mixed reviews on Stance

Their new gen stuff (I think they're called SS+ now) is a revamp of their widely used and loved GR+'s. Some people swear by them, I think they're good.


Tein appears to be overpriced for what they are

Glad you've been doing research prior to actually making a thread. Outside of forums, people love Tein and think they're a good value. They're decent coilovers, just would never pay full price for them.

Megans and Isis appear to be solid but I can't find much info on HOW they are made.

Megans should be your absolute last resort. Unless you can buy them used and have them revalved, I would never purchase a brand new set with my money. I was given a used Track coilovers set with not that many miles and I blew them after one good drifting sesh. I think they can hold up to the abuse of daily driving but the ride quality and performance aspect of their dampers are just meh.

They now have a EZ street coilovers that you may want to look into though. According to their description of them, they're close to what you're looking for.

Not sure though. Never ran a set of coils so I am just going off of research and construction of the damper as well as the spring rates.

Ah I see. I've been lucky to have friends and family that share similar interests in what I like so I've been able to drive on different set ups and try things. See if you can ride along in a friend's car with a certain set of coilovers. Take into account ride height, damping settings, suspension bits, any noise, etc.

I am sort of biased toward FA just because I can actually get a response from them and they valve the dampers according to spring rate selection.

You may also like FEAL. They're run by Odi who drives in FD and knows his stuff. They're built in house (in the US) and he can valve them to your specifications as well.

[Soilsack]

Yeah, anything under the car I'm not willing to skimp on, so it certainly isn't a "cheapest route" problem. It's more of a laziest route option. I just don't see the need of 1500+ coilovers if I am not going to use them to their fullest. I think the 1000~ range is fine, of course the spring shock stuff will be less but if it is as bad as you say (and it does make sense) then it probably isn't worth it.

All I was saying is that probably any coil is an improvement over stock and all of them seem to have similar adjustability other than Tein. They seem to offer less for more money. Although I am not 100% certain what would be more road friendly. Twin Tube or Mono Tube. I like the idea of mono tube just because they appear to be a little more durable.

Appreciate the civil conversation btw. It's a lot better than most posts I have seen with people asking for suspension help.

I have to say too, FEAL are certainly less....obnoxious than FA 500s.

[Rayne]

I have a 1998 SE. I got some Infiniti G35 wheels 17x7.5/17x8. I am running 225/45 and 235/45. I am experiencing some rubbing when taking turns but only on the wheel well cover. The tires are making contact with it. I assume that I need some stiffer springs to counteract this but there are a few things I don't want.

Stiffer springs won't keep your tires from rubbing the wheel well cover when you turn a corner.

[Soilsack]

Given that it is from the body roll I assumed it would. It isn't the front or back from the wheel changing the position, it is the top from suspension travel. I can feel the shift of weight and it only occurs when I corner "aggressively". So unless I take every turn at 10 mph it rubs.

[DreamN]

So you're on stock suspension and you're rubbing? Maybe you've got a bit suspension slop due to a failing/failed strut, a bad alignment, or worn out bushings. Maybe a mixture of all.

If body roll seems to be your complaint I'd look into upgrading the sway bars.

[Soilsack]

Well I don't know how worn 16 year old springs are but the shocks/struts were replaced about a year ago and have no complaint with them any other way. It is definitely the weight transfer, i went and tested it. Any time the shock gets compressed hard the wheels scrape for less than a second and then the rebound takes care of itself. It isn't drastic, no crashing.

I found out it happens on dips too. any sudden dip although it did have to be taken pretty fast. (~80)

[Soilsack]

Well damn, I only looked at them briefly at work and didn't realize the FEALs came with swift springs standard. That's a pretty impressive price point. I wish I could find some "reviews" of them but not much info is out there for them on the 240's.

[Rayne]

Does the issue occur with the stock wheels on or did the issue start to occur when you put the G35 wheels on?

[fliprayzin240sx]

He's running 225/45-17s upfront, thats right on point of stock diameter.

[Soilsack]

I didn't notice it with the stock wheels, however, it is on an area that would not normally be threatened because of the width of the wheel. Also, I can now take turns a bit faster having an inch and a half more rubber on the back.

[DreamN]

Do you know where exactly you're rubbing?

[Soilsack]

I'll have to get pictures. Either way, it didn't happen on the stock wheels.

How much do springs degrade over the years, isn't it possible after 16 years these old stock springs have lost the bounce in their step (or the resistance to bounce that is)

[Soilsack]

70465

You can see the slightly darker "fresh" areas.

[Soilsack]

That was on the front right looking toward the back.

[Rayne]

As you had assumed, you can get new springs and or simply remove the fender liner.

If the stock tire on your car was 195/60 15: (Base Model)
http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tirecalc/imagestats/195x60xR15-225x45xR17.png (http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tirecalc.php?tires=195-60r15-225-45r17)

If the stock tire was 205/55 16: (Optional)

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tirecalc/imagestats/205x55xR16-225x45xR17.png (http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tirecalc.php?tires=205-55r16-225-45r17)

[Soilsack]

If the stock tire was 205/55 16: (Optional)

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tirecalc/imagestats/205x55xR16-225x45xR17.png (http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tirecalc.php?tires=205-55r16-225-45r17)

I can't imagine that the difference of only 2mm would be that big a deal. Oh well. It looks like FEAL is the way to go, I contacted Odi today and they maintain near stock ride height, plus swift springs.

Most of the suggestions state that I should go with RUCAs regardless, is there relly any wrong way to go? I have even heard good things about cxracing which I thought were just cheap ebay parts. I was looking at Stance for the RUCA though.

I guess the next question would be, how much toe adjustment is in the stock suspension?