SR build help.. (codyace? Flipray?)

[drgreen]

I just wanted to start by saying thank your for your time and your opinion, I know my post count isn't very high and I might come across as a noob...

Here it goes.

The SR in my 180sx is getting the top end refreshed because when I bought it a year ago I noticed a slow seep coming from timing section (head gasket).

I got it in my head that if head comes off (pun?) I'm doing some cams... I am however keeping bottom end stock at the moment... next time...

I did a lot of research and I still can't decide...
-Do I really need springs? Retainers? Guides? Can I depend on stock stuff 125k motor..

My 2 choices of cams have come down to...
-A friend selling his HKS 256/256 for $200
-or-
-a new set of JWT s3 cams

So I called JWT yesterday (I love their customer service!) and asked some Q's, he told me I didn't need springs if they measure to spec... I wouldn't need cam gears...

I told him I was planning on going ARP studs and Metal gasket (tomei or apexi). He told me to be careful because some of his customers have warped blocks with ARP studs and a metal gasket isn't necessary until you want +500hp...

I am basing my build mainly on this codyace build... I want 325-safe- 400 possible
http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=1809

I was thinking...
Airnx intake -have
elbow, dp and 3 inch exhaust no cat -have
S3 cams or HKS 256/256???
ARP studs - have
Tomei 1.2mm HG
550cc or 740cc deats or MSD w/rail?
255 fuel pump
FPR
T2 GT2871r .63 or 2860rs?
Turbo smart sleeper BOV -have
2.5" FMIC (yonaka) - have
JWT tuned ECU
N62 MAF - have
Innovate LC-1 to keep an eye on AFR - have

How am I doing here?

To whoever took the time and read it all, thank you very much and please let me know what you think.. I know There have been many threads like this but I've searched a lot on head and cams... afte talking to JWT and they told me metal gasket+ARP studs can cause problems I had to ask here...

[onehundredoctane]

How the hell are people "warping" heads with ARP studs and a metal headgasket? I would ask for more clarification on that.

[ultimateirving]

Build seems fine. If you want 325-400 then cams isn't really needed but if you're set on it I have no input on that field.

Go 740 injectors. Will be easy to resell down the line and you will have more headroom to grow.
Personally I would choose the 2871r turbo over the 2860.


Also you didn't address the tune? Rom tune is capable of your goals

[drgreen]

Build seems fine. If you want 325-400 then cams isn't really needed but if you're set on it I have no input on that field.

Go 740 injectors. Will be easy to resell down the line and you will have more headroom to grow.
Personally I would choose the 2871r turbo over the 2860.


Also you didn't address the tune? Rom tune is capable of your goals

Oh sorry, I put JWT tuned ECU in the list, to clarify I plan on sending my ECU to JWT and give them the list of specs. Rom tune I guess.

[drgreen]

How the hell are people "warping" heads with ARP studs and a metal headgasket? I would ask for more clarification on that.

I was thrown a little off as well because all these builds I see have ARP and some sort of metal gasket...? I figure as long as head and block are super clean (razor blade scrape?) it would be ok?

all comments are good here, just please know what you are saying if you have info to give.

:squintd:

[Def]

You need cams to make much over 300-320 rwhp on these engines on pump gas with a reasonably sized turbo. I'd personally go with the HKS cams for the cost savings, as that's a pretty good deal, but they'll be more "response" based and probably give you somewhere in the 360-380 rwhp depending on how hard you want to work your 2871 and get closer to the knock limit of the fuel.

Cody making 400 rwhp on the 2871R is a bit above the norm since he spent a lot of time/money making his engine flow better than the average DET with extrude honing, and I think a minor touchup of the head if I remember? Maybe not on the head, but don't just expect to toss untouched stock parts at it and make 400 rwhp. A lot of power is up to the details in my experience.

If you're buying the turbo new, I'd probably look at something with a billet wheel, and I'd maybe even think about an EFR 6758 instead. That turbo can definitely do over 400 rwhp (I'd guesstimate about 430-450 rwhp max'd out with good components and good head flow). The GT2871R is a bit lazy for the power potential compared to the new stuff, it's definitely 10 year old+ technology at this point. Don't get a GT2860RS, it won't get anywhere even remotely close to 400 rwhp... ever.

[drgreen]

Ah excellent response! I was talking with a guy who owns a machine shop, we sell cars together. We were talking about a port and polish for the head. I don't really need 400... I do want at least 325 wheel with some room for cranking boost up a bit...

So the turbo might need to be switched up eh? Bang for the buck? Response is key because it will be mainly a street car with weekend hot laps. That's why I'm not looking for 272 cams or anything like that. I'm happy topping out at 7500 . ..

[kovert240sx]

If you want to make power, avoid these off the shelf tuned ecus, and invest in something that can be programmed ie aem, nistune, nismotronic or even a powerfc.

Every car is different, and you'll be able to pickup power that is otherwise not available from an off the shelf tune.

Keep in mind, this will also require a reputable tuner and so,e dyno time.

Cams will help pickup top end power, and also give you a flatter, more usable torue curve. But are not a requirement if you have a decent sized turbo. My old 60 trim did just over 400 on stock cams, but it was also not on pump gas.

Gt2871r with a .86 ar will get you decent response and can also produce over 400whp

[jr_ss]

If you want response you need to stay with a .64 2871R. There are better turbos out there now with newer technology that spool faster and have a broader net power band. Contact Def, he has access to some cool stuff and the experience/knowledge to back it up and lead you down the right path.

[drgreen]

Ok I'll send def a pm and start there. If anyone is selling something on my list or of use to me, let me know :)

Response is key, I don't need a dyno sheet for bragging rights so I was thinking .64. The EFR 6758, Gt2871r or a GTX? Is Precision worth looking at? I want usable power but I don't want to break the bank either.. I sell cars, I don't own the dealership... lol

I'd like to keep the turbo around 1500 or less with waste gate clocked on stock mani, the 2871r is attractive because price... How moar awesome is $300 to $400 on turbo budget? I was thinking 2871r full boost at 3500, how much earlier does boost really come on and what other advantages do they provide?

[ultimateirving]

Ok I'll send def a pm and start there. If anyone is selling something on my list or of use to me, let me know :)

Response is key, I don't need a dyno sheet for bragging rights so I was thinking .64. The EFR 6758, Gt2871r or a GTX? Is Precision worth looking at? I want usable power but I don't want to break the bank either.. I sell cars, I don't own the dealership... lol

I'd like to keep the turbo around 1500 or less with waste gate clocked on stock mani, the 2871r is attractive because price... How moar awesome is $300 to $400 on turbo budget? I was thinking 2871r full boost at 3500, how much earlier does boost really come on and what other advantages do they provide?

I got the 2871r .86(inadvertantly, bought second hand) anyways, it hits hard but i dont think i see full boost before 4k, and im running about 18psi on stock mani, maybe 4200 or so.

[drgreen]

I got the 2871r .86(inadvertantly, bought second hand) anyways, it hits hard but i dont think i see full boost before 4k, and im running about 18psi on stock mani, maybe 4200 or so.


yah I think I'm going to stick with the .64 because of street/track use... I don't want it to feel like the boost button just all of a sudden got pushed on.

Out of curiosity, what is your setup?

[Def]

If you just want 320 and maybe 360ish when turning it up, a used .64 GT2871 is what I'd go for. There are enough out there, and the BB chra is pretty robust.


If buying new I'd get an EFR 6758.

[drgreen]

I did some research on that efr and apparently some clearance issues come up. A manifold would probably need to be purchased and a vband dp. DEF, do you know of a good efr setup that won't leave guessing and customizing a manifold?

I've read that the efr is worth the challenge of fitting it in but budget is probably going up another 1500 to do it proper...

[Def]

It is minor clearance to the manifold. I think welding on another 1/2" t25 flange would probably fix that, but I'm not 100% sure. Then just fab a downpipe.

I think it's worth the effort and minor expense personally.

[fliprayzin240sx]

If I would do it over, I'd go GT2871R .86...I want a bit more power up top. I second the 740cc. I've seen folks max out 550cc around 310-320 hp. If you go rom tune, buy a SAFC to fine tune the fuel map. They're usually rich to be safe. Leaning it out some would do wonders.

As far as the whole gasket thing. The kicker with metal HG is that the oil pump cover is sometimes not flushed with the block. People would slap metal HG without checking to see if they're even and would end up not getting a good seal on #1 cylinder. Stock headgasket will seal better and make up the gap since its pliable compared to a metal HG. If you go metal HG, my recommendation is always Apexi or Tomei and check the block.

[drgreen]

Do you think oem gasket is safe for my goal? I don't mind going oem if it holds? I assume the timing section would need to be shaved a bit to even up?

[jr_ss]

OEM head gasket and ARPs will be just fine for your goals.

[fliprayzin240sx]

You dont have to worry too much about the cover being slightly taller on the OEM gasket.

[drgreen]

See this is why I come here, straight up advice based on experience! All I want to do is buy parts now....

[jr_ss]

In all honesty, you could just purchase new OEM head bolts and be find up to 400hp or so.

[drgreen]

Well I already have the studs but oem gasket will go on.

I'll put the head back on with cams and then I'll attack turbo.fuel.ecu

[MADE]

All this talk about stock HG is making my chinko hard.
Finally people are seeing the light.

[inopsey]

Well I already have the studs but oem gasket will go on.

I'll put the head back on with cams and then I'll attack turbo.fuel.ecu

from your list of parts you are going to open up the engine to replace the oem head gasket with another oem head gasket and head studs but dont plan on building the bottom end or and head work?

[TheRealSy90]

I just have to throw this in, do dual rocker arm guides so you can bang limiter all day.

[drgreen]

from your list of parts you are going to open up the engine to replace the oem head gasket with another oem head gasket and head studs but dont plan on building the bottom end or and head work?

I am not doing the bottom end at this time. The head will most likely get a port and polish and flow tested. I'll get the hks 256 from my friend. If the bottom end lasts a few years I'll be happy with that. If it doesn't, guess I'm doing bottom end.. it's a weekend track car at most...

[inopsey]

you will squeeze more power/response out of a standalone ecu and tuning then mild head work for the extra $$ spent. save the hassle and just drop in the cams no need to remove the head for such small gains. if your going to build the engine build the engine. if not leave it oem factory unopened.

[jr_ss]

I am not doing the bottom end at this time. The head will most likely get a port and polish and flow tested. I'll get the hks 256 from my friend. If the bottom end lasts a few years I'll be happy with that. If it doesn't, guess I'm doing bottom end.. it's a weekend track car at most...

Don't even waste your money on head work other than basic items. If you're adamant about head work, VVL swap it and be done.

[drgreen]

Ah ok... so not worth it eh? I guess I won't see that much unless I go big cams big turbo max top end? Was hoping flow would smoothen out the curve with the cams? So really what should my list look like if you had to edit my list above in original post...

[Kingtal0n]

Use S3 cams and stock springs. Keep the valvetrain as stock as possible.

[drgreen]

well you know what....

It turns out that my friend has HKS step 2 256 cams, not step 1..... So not wanting to do springs.... no go...

Now it's down to JWT S3 cams, I have been looking at Tomei poncams 256 but apparently the JWT cams are the best balanced cam....?