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blackrms13
03-16-2014, 03:20 PM
So I recently swapped another KA into a hatch I bought non running (non-op)
All stock 91 LE Hatch.

Went to smog it yesterday, failed.
High HC reading at 15mph. Read 90 out of max of 83.
Then I noticed I forgot to plug in the two hoses on the intake tube, going into the intake manifold near the throttle body/upper radiator hose.

Went home did some research, and thought to myself that otta be the problem.
Tech told me to come back the next day, otherwise it seems sketchy if it did pass...
So I did, and today all the reading was good except NOx reading went up from yesterday's 262 to 618 out o the max of 559. I'm not failing horribly, just slightly high nox reading.

Now I'm kinda stumped. To my understanding, unplugged hoses to intake manifold after MAF should cause a leaner reading therefore higher combustion temp --> higher NOx. However, after plugging them back in made the reading higher.

Test 1:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t99/blackrms13/IMG_20140316_140647.jpg

Test 2:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t99/blackrms13/f7ec416c-75a2-4ad8-ab40-a7fd59ecceb3.jpg

I did let the car sit for little more than a year, I did put in some fuel stabilizer after the swap/before starting the car again. But the fuel is definitely still old.

I've gotten new plugs, wires, caps and rotors, O2 sensors prior to smog. I have not clean the MAF or IACV, Seafoam, ran fuel injector cleaner and get new 91 octane gas; all of which I plan on doing...
I dont plan on getting a new cat, as it's the same price to do...um..smog another way :cops:

any other suggestions?

VertTwins
03-17-2014, 06:06 AM
Take a look at your BPT hose under the BPT valve. See if it has a hole burnt through it. The smallest hole will cause it not to close properly under load on the Dyno.

All your readings are higher then average indicating some issue beyond just the egr one. It may be the cat is not hot enough. Make sure your cat is good and hot before you go to smog it. And try not to be sitting around waiting for them to get you in the shop. Because of its location under the car it takes a little longer to get to operating temp. I would expect on your car all the readings to be below the average numbers as both of mine are.

It was never a lean condition on either test, if it had a lean condition there would be a reading of O2 in the sample. This number along with the CO2 reading indicate your cat is probably ok. If the CO2 was lower and the O2 had a percentage above .5% I would suspect the cat for sure.

I have seen a lazy O2 sensor cause a similar failure. I am unclear if you already replaced it or if you plan to replace it.

But start with the BPT hose first and make sure there is no pin hole burnt through it. If that hose is really soft and mushy just replace it.

VertTwins
03-17-2014, 06:17 AM
for reference this is a picture of the valve set up from the firewall. the circled yellow is the BPT and the red arrow points to the hose I am referring to. http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e25/vancouverbc_2008/egr.jpg

blackrms13
03-17-2014, 11:26 AM
Thanks for the good info!
I forgot to state that, while the motor is out I replaced all the cracked vacuum line. That 90 degree bend one was indeed cracked/hole in it, just like my last hatch.

My car is currently non-op, therefore, I can really drive it. The 2nd time I did the smog, I did only rev it for about 10-15min...
I plan on getting a 1 day permit, and drive it a bit further out to get the smog done...so it's not a "cold" car

VertTwins
03-18-2014, 10:23 AM
If the hose was installed when you went to have it tested then you need to test the egr system operation. Reach under the egr valve and manually lift the diaphragm while the car is at idle. The idle should stumble significantly or the engine should die. If ok you need to move on to a vacuum test. If no good then you probably have carbon blockage in the passages and need to clean them.
The vacuum test will involve putting direct vacuum to the egr valve while the car is at idle. 2 ways to do this, either use a hand vacuum pump or unplug a manifold vacuum source and use it. Apply the vacuum to the egr valve vacuum port and apply at least 5Hg vacuum to it. should have the same result as the above test. If ok you need to move on to testing supply vacuum. If No good you need to replace the egr valve since it will no hold vacuum. NOTE: you have to do the manual push up test first to make sure it can stall the engine or drop the rpm more than 100 rpm. If you don't do that before this test you don't know which is causing the no good result of this test.

Testing for source: with the hose you just unplugged from the egr to test it in the above test, hook a vacuum gauge to it. With the engine idling there should be no vacuum available. snap the throttle while watching the gauge. The vacuum should spike up to the 5 to 10Hg maybe more briefly. It will not hold there though as there is not enough back pressure in the exhaust to hold the bpt closed when your not driving it. At this point if the result is ok then something else is wrong causing the NOx and it is most likely not the egr system. If no good then you need to move on to testing for vacuum to the bpt.
Testing source vacuum to the bpt: disconnect your gauge from the hose and reconnect the hose to the egr valve. now remove the hose on the other side of the bpt coming from the egr solenoid. hook your gauge to this hose. perform the same test but hold your rpm at around 2000 to 3000 rpm. it should constantly have above 10Hg vacuum. If ok your bpt is not functioning either due to no back pressure or the valve it self is no good. you would now need to test for exhaust back pressure. If you do not get vacuum on the test it is no good and you need to move to the solenoid which is one of the 2 behind the head.

At this point I am going to stop here and let you do the tests. If you need more of the flow post again if nothing above finds it. I will stress you need to do these tests in that order or you will not come up with accurate test results.