What does VR-4 mean?

[exitspeed]

As in Mitsu 3000gt VR-4. Might be a dumb question but it's driving me crazy. Anyone know?

[AKADriver]

Nothing. Well, the '4' refers to AWD. or maybe 4 wheel steering. Or maybe both.

[Jeff240sx]

Howzabout the Jetta VR-6?
-Jeff

[OptionZero]

VR-4 are AWD Turbo mitsubishi's.

Galant VR-4 = AWD Galant w/ Lancer/Eclipse engine (early 90/late 80s?)

3000GT VR-4= 320hp TT 3.0 V6 AWD monster....that weighs 3800lbs =P

I'm gonna hijack this thread:

How hard are 3000gt's to maintain and work on? Roomy engine bay, logical setups and easy access to get to suspension and other bits?

[aa87]

Yeah, engine bays are a bit crowded, unsure about the rest. You dont really see many high horsepower 3si's, compared to supras or even 300zx's, but they have potential.

[rrobe99999]

My GF has a 3000 GT and it is a PITA to work on, very cramped engine bay and worse then my Z32 'cus FWD. The only things I'll do on that car are oil changes, A/C recharge and other simple maintenance. The power antenna was easy to replace, just like our cars

[AKADriver]

Howzabout the Jetta VR-6?
-Jeff

V = V
R = Reihenmotor = Inline engine
6 = 6 cylinder

It refers to the way the narrow angle engine works sort of like a V6 and sort of like an inline six.

[Mirage]

Viscous Runtime 4, according to the old 91-92 galant vr-4 factory brochures I believe it was in. It listed it like

4 wheel drive
4 wheel steering
4 wheel disc brakes
and I think one other thing.

3000GT guys will tell you it doesn't mean anything usually. Thats what was always said when I use to own '93 VR4

[TheSnail]

My brothers got a VR-2, no bullshi+

[exitspeed]

Viscous Runtime 4, according to the old 91-92 galant vr-4 factory brochures I believe it was in. It listed it like

4 wheel drive
4 wheel steering
4 wheel disc brakes
and I think one other thing.

3000GT guys will tell you it doesn't mean anything usually. Thats what was always said when I use to own '93 VR4


Wow thats pretty odd? :tweak: Almost every other car out there with numers and letters has a meaning. The only other ones I can think of with out a meaning are chevy's. Z28 z24 z71 z34 WTF explain those.

[AKADriver]

The Chevy names are option codes.

[Bliss]

arent those things extremely heavy? anytime i hear arguments for/against 300GTs, one of the main points is weight..

[iyceman]

3sis are pig heavy, which makes them more or less useless. They're also ungodly expensive. Imagine a more portly version of a Supra, and then remember that it's a DSM so it will fall apart more frequently than J-Lo's marriage plans. Still wanna buy one?

[TheSnail]

3000gt is 3800lbs
Galant is 2800lbs

I had a Stealth RT, which is the same weight as the 3000's other then base models.

[TheSnail]

My tranny crapped out on my Stealth, and my brother went through two trannies in 3 months on his galant vr-2. I hate DSM's, motors are fine but the trannies are a pile of shi+.

[iyceman]

The entire car is a pile of shit man...

[Bliss]

[QUOTE=TheSnail]3000gt is 3800lbs
Galant is 2800lbs

QUOTE]

damn, i had no idea they were that heavy. whats a MKIV weigh in at? 300zx?

wtf does 3si mean? i know its for 3000GTs, but wtf?

[TheSnail]

3000gt stealth international

[iyceman]

Supra TT - 3629 lbs
Z32 300ZX TT - 3480 lbs
3000GT VR4 - 3810 lbs :eek2:

[JtWo]

VR-4 = Very Racist FOURiegner?

[iyceman]

You're funny. :down: :hahano:

[Phlip]

VR-4= VeRy fuckin expensive, damn near 4000 pounds

[Agent_S13]

[QUOTE=OptionZero]VR-4 are AWD Turbo mitsubishi's.

Galant VR-4 = AWD Galant w/ Lancer/Eclipse engine (early 90/late 80s?)

3000GT VR-4= 320hp TT 3.0 V6 AWD monster....that weighs 3800lbs =P

[\QUOTE]

I thought the 3000GT offered 2 versions:
1) TT inline 4
2) N/A V6

Dunno HP figures but that was initial research when friends and I testdrove one (the N/A V6 version)

Anyways, carry on :p

-Aaron
'91 240sx coupe

[Ghettokracker71]

I like them b/c they are AWD to they grip well,but the damn engine is transverly mounted and its a 3.0 six with two turbos....no room whatsoever.

[iyceman]

Honestly, for the price it takes to build a good 3si you can prolly come damn close to building a nice ass WRX, and those are hella cooler IMO.

[Ghettokracker71]

Good point,I never thought about that.I'm sure the scoobie would be alot more reliable too,lol.

[iyceman]

Mmmm.... 2000 Imprezza 2.5 RS w/ an EJ20DET from an '02 Rex. :drool:
I'm still trying to find SOMEONE who can tell me if it's feasible to install the EJ25DET out of an STi into the 2000 2.5 chassis.

[JtWo]

I thought all 3KGT's were v6? None of them are DSM's since they dont got a 4cyl. And in my Kelly Blue Book pricing guide it says its a V6 turbo. 3.0liter

[JtWo]

Supra TT - 3629 lbs
Z32 300ZX TT - 3480 lbs
3000GT VR4 - 3810 lbs :eek2:

MK4 TT's are 3505LBS?

[s13Dr1ft]

wow...Ok, 3kgts, VR-4 V6 3.0 Twin Turbo, Non VR-4 3.0 FWD POS fat pig.

Yes a 3kGT is a DSM, Dimond Star Motors, wich means Chrysler owns Mitsu..Dodge is Chrysler, Dodge Stealth is a 3KGT. get it now? as like teh Eclipse/Talon/Laser are DSM. After 1999 there was no more DSM.

Got it now? Yes they weigh alot, yes you can drop alot of weight too. We had a 98 with 17G turbos and that car was fast as shit..It made me puke alittle.

[hurleyboi514]

V = V
R = Reihenmotor = Inline engine
6 = 6 cylinder

It refers to the way the narrow angle engine works sort of like a V6 and sort of like an inline six.

its not an inline, its a V-6...?

[Bliss]

its not an inline, its a V-6...?

this is what i get from what AKADriver said:

its not an inline engine, but the angle of the V is small, so its similar to being inline

[iyceman]

I thought all 3KGT's were v6? None of them are DSM's since they dont got a 4cyl. And in my Kelly Blue Book pricing guide it says its a V6 turbo. 3.0liter
All of them are DSMs. DSM (Diamond Star Motors) was a collusion between Daimler Chrysler and Mitsubishi. Most people refer to 1G and 2G Eclipses as DSMs, which is fine, but the truth is the Galant VR-4, the 3si, and the 1 ang 2G Eclipses, 1 and 2G Lasers, 1 and 2G Talons, and the Dodge Stealth are ALL DSMs.

[Phlip]

Mmmm.... 2000 Imprezza 2.5 RS w/ an EJ20DET from an '02 Rex. :drool:
I'm still trying to find SOMEONE who can tell me if it's feasible to install the EJ25DET out of an STi into the 2000 2.5 chassis.
It is feasible, it was in SCC in one of the last couple of months, they were doing just that, swapping the EJ25, explaining that it would be possible for the Imprezza and Legacy


this is what i get from what AKADriver said:

its not an inline engine, but the angle of the V is small, so its similar to being inline
That is correct, it is a 15 degree vee, meaning that the cylinders have to be offset, kinda like this: -_-_-_
... Now imagine them being MUCH closer together and you would see how the narrow angle gives it the characteristics of an inline engine, while it is still technically a V6

[JtWo]

wow...Ok, 3kgts, VR-4 V6 3.0 Twin Turbo, Non VR-4 3.0 FWD POS fat pig.

Yes a 3kGT is a DSM, Dimond Star Motors, wich means Chrysler owns Mitsu..Dodge is Chrysler, Dodge Stealth is a 3KGT. get it now? as like teh Eclipse/Talon/Laser are DSM. After 1999 there was no more DSM.

Got it now? Yes they weigh alot, yes you can drop alot of weight too. We had a 98 with 17G turbos and that car was fast as shit..It made me puke alittle.

I always thought DSM's only applied to the cars with the 4G63 series motors...

[iyceman]

It is feasible, it was in SCC in one of the last couple of months, they were doing just that, swapping the EJ25, explaining that it would be possible for the Imprezza and Legacy


I'm pretty sure they took the EJ20DET out of an '02 WRX, I'm talkin' about the brand new 2.5 from an 04' STi, which I believe is a different motor.

[HiPSI]

its not an inline, its a V-6...?


i guess you could call it a staggered inline 6? the pistons all travel at nearly the same angle (almost straight up and down). if you've ever seen the head off a VR6 motor it's all one piece due to the close proximity of the cylinder bores, not a pair of heads like a V6 configuration would normally have.

so it's more like an inline than a V.... but due to a slight angle between the cylinders it's still technically a V......

[Ghettokracker71]

I always thought DSM's only applied to the cars with the 4G63 series motors...

Well the nickname for Eclipse/Talon/Laser stuck ,so when you refer to something as a "DSM" people always think you are talking about one of those,regardles if it had the 4G or the TL18(is that right? The chrystler 1.8 from the base model ? ). The 3si still is a Diamond Star Motors car,but its not commonly nicknamed DSM as the other chassis is.

[AKADriver]

"DSM" only refers to cars built under the Diamond-Star joint venture in the Normal, IL plant. This only covers first generation cars, but all engines (4G37 [1.8], 4G63 non-turbo, 4G63 turbo).

The second generation cars were also built at that plant, but control of the plant was given to Mitsubishi and the Diamond-Star company was dissolved.

[NZO]

Mmmm.... 2000 Imprezza 2.5 RS w/ an EJ20DET from an '02 Rex. :drool:
I'm still trying to find SOMEONE who can tell me if it's feasible to install the EJ25DET out of an STi into the 2000 2.5 chassis.

Course its feasable, why wouldnt it be. Same engine as an ej20 just has 500cc more displacement.

[iyceman]

Didn't know, and that sadly is more info than anybody has come up with this far. Now if I can only find an '04 STi engine lying around somewhere for $20.

[TurboFour]

Aww I don't like hearing people calling DSMs crap :( That is such a loaded statement.

Coming from a DSMer, DSMs are specifically any Eclipse, Talon, Laser, or Galant VR-4. That is it. Yes Stealths and 3000GTs were made as a joint venture, but they were not made in the United States at the Normal, Illinois plant. Yes, the Galant VR-4 was not made here either, but it has almost the exact same engine, tranny, drivetrain, and electronics as the T/E/L, and there were only 3,000 imported to the US in 91 and 92. They are close enough.

The term DSM is used simply to categorize those 4 cars. There is nothing more to it.

The only Mitsu cars to get the VR-4 designation are AWD, AWS, and turbocharged. Don't ask me what it stands for.


As for the people bashing DSMs, take a ride in one. I'm betting you won't be singing the same tune. (Well, at least come take a ride in mine. There are a lot of morons out there owning DSMs these days.)

As for designations of the DSMs:

RS: Rally Sport
GS: Gran Sport
GS-T: Gran Sport Turbo
GSX: Gran Sport AWD

ESi: Electronic Sport Injection (this is a rumor, might not be correct)
TSi: Turbo Sport Injection
TSi AWD: Turbo Sport Injection AWD

[Ghettokracker71]

Hey what'dya think got me to look into an S13? ....I loved DSMs so much but my parents said no to 'em

[iyceman]

I owned a 91 TSi, a 96 RS, and a 98 GSX, and I know all their benefits and problems, so I'm allowed to say what I like. The problem w/ DSMs is that the 1G is the only one worth modifying because all the 2G engines are total crap, and honestly I got sick and tired of owning a (at the time) 12 year old car and having to put so much work into it just to keep the damned thing running. They are 12 year old cars, it isn't a flaw in their design, they're just really old cars. To this day I wish I had put the 6-bolt 1G engine out of my TSi into my GSX, but it wasn't worth it to me.

[TurboFour]

Actually the 2g engine is much better designed than the 1g engine :) The components are lighter, the head is designed better and when properly ported, outflows the 1g head. It is just a shame that people rip the 2g engines out because they think they are inferior. My old roommate's automatic 97 tsi awd ran 11.8 at 121mph on a stock 2g engine. Another friend of mine ran 11.2 on his stock (other than headgasket and cams) 2g engine. They are all great engines. People just don't take care of them.

[hurleyboi514]

this is what i get from what AKADriver said:

its not an inline engine, but the angle of the V is small, so its similar to being inline

i see, very intresting...

[msaskin]

Aww I don't like hearing people calling DSMs crap :( That is such a loaded statement.

Coming from a DSMer, DSMs are specifically any Eclipse, Talon, Laser, or Galant VR-4. That is it. Yes Stealths and 3000GTs were made as a joint venture, but they were not made in the United States at the Normal, Illinois plant. Yes, the Galant VR-4 was not made here either, but it has almost the exact same engine, tranny, drivetrain, and electronics as the T/E/L, and there were only 3,000 imported to the US in 91 and 92. They are close enough.

The term DSM is used simply to categorize those 4 cars. There is nothing more to it.

The only Mitsu cars to get the VR-4 designation are AWD, AWS, and turbocharged. Don't ask me what it stands for.


As for the people bashing DSMs, take a ride in one. I'm betting you won't be singing the same tune. (Well, at least come take a ride in mine. There are a lot of morons out there owning DSMs these days.)

As for designations of the DSMs:

RS: Rally Sport
GS: Gran Sport
GS-T: Gran Sport Turbo
GSX: Gran Sport AWD

ESi: Electronic Sport Injection (this is a rumor, might not be correct)
TSi: Turbo Sport Injection
TSi AWD: Turbo Sport Injection AWD

Thank god. Up until this post, this thread was rife with misinformation and hearsay.

To add to what TurboFour said:
3000GT/Stealths weighed ~3200lbs give or take for the non-turbos, and 3300-4000+ for the turbos depending on year/make/model.

The heaviest turbos were the '95 and '96 spyders (hardtop convertible), which tip the scale at 4200lbs give or take. The lightest from the factory are the '95 and '96 stealth turbos, which weigh in at around 3400-3500lbs.

The 3/S platform was available in three "trim" levels.
SOHC Non-turbo, FWD, ~170hp
DOHC non-turb, FWD, ~220hp
DOHC turbo, AWD, 300-320hp (depending on year)

~matt

[Phlip]

Actually the 2g engine is much better designed than the 1g engine :) The components are lighter, the head is designed better and when properly ported, outflows the 1g head. It is just a shame that people rip the 2g engines out because they think they are inferior. My old roommate's automatic 97 tsi awd ran 11.8 at 121mph on a stock 2g engine. Another friend of mine ran 11.2 on his stock (other than headgasket and cams) 2g engine. They are all great engines. People just don't take care of them.
The differences and preferences are always, as I have read them to be, are objective and fundamental... The 1g, as I understand, don't have the problem with crank walk and other various forms of "puking their fuckin guts all over" than had been exhibited with the 2g... Furthermore, your argument that 0.6 seconds on a dragstrip when dirven by 2 different non professionals make a difference is just downright assesnine

[msaskin]

To be honest, the 2G heads do flow better, as do the 2g exhaust manifold and o2 housing, not to mention the internal design of the latter two (manifold and o2 housing) is significantly better.

The downside to the 2G engine (as you mentioned) is crankwalk.

Saying one is "stronger" than the other is asinine. They are near identical engines...I know plenty of people with very very fast 2Gs. That said, most of them have about $1500-2000 saved up in a crankwalk fund just in case ;)

Also, how well the engine was taken care of has no bearing on crankwalk what-so-ever. I've seen a bone stock 2g crankwalk, and I've seen a 10 second 2g crankwalk. Both were taken care of meticulously, and the bone stock one was the original owner. No one knows (even now) what causes crankwalk. There are numerous theories floating around, but there has been no proof, and no one has come up with a fix.

That said, the best theory i've read to date is: http://magnusmotorsports.com/crankwalktheory.htm

~matt

[TurboFour]

Furthermore, your argument that 0.6 seconds on a dragstrip when dirven by 2 different non professionals make a difference is just downright assesnine


What does that mean? I was just using those two examples to show that 2g engines are capable of running very fast times reliably. What does the .6 seconds thing have to do with anything?

[iyceman]

I know plenty of people with very very fast 2Gs. That said, most of them have about $1500-2000 saved up in a crankwalk fund just in case ;)

Also, how well the engine was taken care of has no bearing on crankwalk what-so-ever. I've seen a bone stock 2g crankwalk, and I've seen a 10 second 2g crankwalk. Both were taken care of meticulously, and the bone stock one was the original owner. No one knows (even now) what causes crankwalk. There are numerous theories floating around, but there has been no proof, and no one has come up with a fix.

That said, the best theory i've read to date is: http://magnusmotorsports.com/crankwalktheory.htm

~matt
A-fuckin'-men!

[Marty]

i happen to like 3000gt's. three of my friends have one. the one is actually pushing somewhere in the mid 600's in hp right now.

[JtWo]

Don't forget......the EVO's are DSM's too =]