safc or emanage tuning/ which is easier?

[Mr. Spool]

Basically which is easier to tune? I do not have access to a wideband o2 sensor or a dyno shop, at this time.

I do however have the opportunity to set up a labtop to the emanage and I would get the ignition harness as well.

I am somewhat electronically inclined and I have hooked up an avcr. any imput would help.

[Grandpa]

AFC is easier to tune; emanage is more robust.

Buy a wideband. It's worth it.

-john

[Mr. Spool]

Grandpa, you seem to be the local expert on the emanage, how difficult is it to tune and to set the timing compared to the afc?

It seems to be able to do everything and to be able to upgrade with larger injectors, it also appears to be able to bypass the size of the stock maf, for higher hp aplications.

How long did the emange take to get moderatly tuned?

[RMiller]

Are you just going to fiddle with the fuel controller until the car sounds/runs better?

[Mr. Spool]

I was under the impression that for the time being there were pretty good gestimate settings for the safc to be set at. and the emanage it was kinda like plugging in my information and it would do the calculating.

[Grandpa]

Well, the afc can't adjust timing, so if you plan to go that route and want timing management, you'll need a secondary device such as MSD's boost timing master.

The emanage isn't too bad to tune, although, like I said above, it's not as cut and dry as the afc. This is mostly because there are a lot more options for the emanage. Timing is easy to adjust but difficult to monitor, since the emanage doesn't log overall timing - you'll need a consult or techtom to watch it.

You can swap injectors without a dyno tune or wideband, but the maf swap will require tuning across the board, which means wideband.

Innovate's wideband is under $400, or dyno sessions cost $120/hr. It's up to you mang.

-john

[Mr. Spool]

Is it possible to use a safc instead of the safcII? and which one would tune easier?

with the emanage from my understanding I would not need to swap the maf. Am I correct about this?

[msaskin]

Is it possible to use a safc instead of the safcII? and which one would tune easier?

with the emanage from my understanding I would not need to swap the maf. Am I correct about this?

The SAFC's are real similar, regardless of what version you get (aside from the real old-school 5 knob style one).

As for the e-manage; I'd imagine if you set it up with the pressure sensor option, you could get away without upgrading your MAF. In theory, the pressure sensor allows the e-manage to continue operating on a proper fuel map even with the stock MAF maxes out, but I'm not sure how well it works in practice. I've never tuned an e-manage, but I'd imagine I could figure it out in all of ten minutes.

Once you understand the basics of tuning fuel & timing, and have a way of measuring what you want (logging, wideband o2, egt gauge, etc...), it's really just a matter of learning how to use the system you're working on. I started learning with SAFC and S-AFR (hks), then went on to standalones (haltech). I was able to learn how to use an Electromotive Tec-3 in an afternoon, same with the AEM EMS.

~matt

[Mr. Spool]

Unless you are unusually gifted, I should not have a problem going with the emanage. How indepth is the install process of either of these units? I am guessing that they are relitively similar.

[msaskin]

Unless you are unusually gifted, I should not have a problem going with the emanage. How indepth is the install process of either of these units? I am guessing that they are relitively similar.

I wouldn't say I'm overly gifted, I've just got a passion for cars :)

The install for either (SAFC vs. E-manage) should be pretty similar. The e-manage will be a bit more complicated if you're going to use it to control timing, etc. as well, but not overly so.

~matt

[Mr. Spool]

Hopefully it will go fairly smooth.

can anyone sudjest a good cheap wideband?

[Grandpa]

I'm running a techedge v1.5. If I were to buy one again, I'd go with this one:

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/

-john

[Mr. Spool]

are these fairly accurate? If I am going to do it I want to do it right.


why would you go with this one rather than the one that you have?

[msaskin]

Zeitronix
Innovate Motorsports LM-1
PLX Devices M-300

All are ~$300 give or take, and all are pretty damn accurate.

I'll be running a PLX M-300 myself :)

~matt

[Grandpa]

Techedge is a DIY type wideband, so support is well...almost nonexistent (they may tell you what's wrong, but you're fixing it), and any support that exists, is in Australia.

And v1.5 runs off the NTK sensor ($$$), is not easy to datalog with, and a few other things.

I paid $530 for my wideband w/ sensor. Price alone is a better reason to go with the Innovate, even if you ignore how well it datalogs.

All the 5-wire widebands are accurate. Well, I should say, since you calibrate it, it's as accurate as you make it. :rofl:

-john

[nismofeind]

Use a wide band you can tune your maps under 100% throttle.

[Grandpa]

Thank you. With a wideband, you can also tune at less than WOT.

-john