First R32 Legally imported to US under exemption rule

[Extreme Dimensions]

Nissan Skyline GT-R s in the USA Blog: First 1989 Nissan Skyline GT-R Imported to the US Under the 25 Year Exemption (http://www.gtrusablog.com/2014/01/first-1989-nissan-skyline-gt-r-imported.html)


Its begun!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JoCSFRvkTIQ/UsSBX3UU_GI/AAAAAAABQm0/HXz0-rRESUo/s640/Trevor.jpg

[simmode1]

Very nice. I love how well the R32 has aged.

[g35gabby]

saw the owner post on facebook as he was crossing the board. very neat. Mine will be here soon enough... though it worked for him, We are waiting till the 25 year law clear's my car's 25th build date birthday....

[exitspeed]

That's cool. So will this actually drive the prices down and make r32's more accessible?

Do you know the cost all said and done?

[simmode1]

Wait... so... Can I go snatch a 2JZ'd Canadian Soarer and bring it back here too?

What are some other hot JDM only cars we should be able to start snagging soon?

Oh... wait... Evos. OMG yes. Lighter, cheaper old school Evos. What else?

[ditchs14]

can't wait! i really want a Laurel

[Extreme Dimensions]

Wait... so... Can I go snatch a 2JZ'd Canadian Soarer and bring it back here too?

What are some other hot JDM only cars we should be able to start snagging soon?

Oh... wait... Evos. OMG yes. Lighter, cheaper old school Evos. What else?

The exemption rule is for vehicles 25 yrs or older. gonna have to wait just a biittt more. A few more years and you're talking R34s!Evos, Soarers, 22B Sti's, Etc.:hyper:

[Extreme Dimensions]

saw the owner post on facebook as he was crossing the board. very neat. Mine will be here soon enough... though it worked for him, We are waiting till the 25 year law clear's my car's 25th build date birthday....

I believe this is the most accurate translation of the exemption. It goes by BUILD DATE.

[g35gabby]

I believe this is the most accurate translation of the exemption. It goes by BUILD DATE.

Yes, but reading that people are bringing them in based on build year is making me a little more anxious by the day... :eek3d:

Can not wait to get my hands on my R32. it is just sitting in J land waiting :(

[jamg]

i doubt it's the first. Rivsu from FB have been importing them for quite some time now.

[g35gabby]

1989 BNR32 Nissan Skyline GT-R - Imgur (http://imgur.com/a/l9JrE#0)

[g35gabby]

i doubt it's the first. Rivsu from FB have been importing them for quite some time now.

first R32 and steve hasn't imported any fed legal under the 25 year law yet. He has R31s and other older stuff.

Steve is handling my car.

[jamg]

they need to get rid of the stupid 25 year rule.

[Extreme Dimensions]

i doubt it's the first. Rivsu from FB have been importing them for quite some time now.

I believe this is the first imported under the 25yrs or older exemption law, as in, no need to modify it to meet US DOT standards, get a US 17 digit VIN replacement, pass state safety and emissions regulations, etc.

[PeaceOnesxWai]

Wait... so... Can I go snatch a 2JZ'd Canadian Soarer and bring it back here too?

What are some other hot JDM only cars we should be able to start snagging soon?

Oh... wait... Evos. OMG yes. Lighter, cheaper old school Evos. What else?

Anything that is older then 25yo.. from the cars vin production date. The OPs car was probably produced Dec/1988-Jan/1989 hence why it got in Jan/2014

[YumGTR]

me and my car are the subject of the article. feel free to ask me any questions you have gents.

[jamg]

me and my car are the subject of the article. feel free to ask me any questions you have gents.

how much was it, out the door?

[YumGTR]

canned response:

By the way guys, I keep getting asked "how much did you pay for it?" and the answer is that it doesn't really matter because there was a HUGE risk factor in buying the car and not knowing if/when it would be able to cross into the US. so I rolled the dice and put all my money in one basket and bet it on the idea that I would be able to get it in on 1/1/14 and not be delayed until 8/1 or later and be forced to pay for 8 more months of storage in Canada while the vehicle sat around collecting dust. The bet happened to go my way, so I'm lucky.

I can also tell you that Sean Morris and Rivsu Imports / Steve McCarty estimates of a decent 1989 R32 GTR costing you $15-20k are pretty spot on though.

[PeaceOnesxWai]

^Base R32s youre looking around $18-20K.. GTRs add $10-15K depending on condition and mileage. Then of course there are Nismos, V-spec, N1s..... mmmmm

[gist864]

me and my car are the subject of the article. feel free to ask me any questions you have gents.

i was under the impression that the car had to be imported from the country of orgin. it says you got yours from Canada

[YumGTR]

lively discussion going on here:

This Is The First R32 Nissan Skyline GT-R Legally Imported To America (http://jalopnik.com/this-is-the-first-r32-nissan-skyline-gt-r-legally-impor-1493127416)

[jamg]

a better question, what was the flat fee you were charged to get the car over?

[YumGTR]

there is no legal requirement that the car be imported from the country where it was originally offered for sale. this car was imported to canada from Japan under their 15 year rule in ~2004 where it was until 1/1/14.

1989 model year GT-R's in Japan have been selling on the *LOW* end (high km, body damage, hammered, etc...) for about ~750k JPY. add in the costs of transportation to the port in Japan, export fees and duties, storage, shipping to get the car on a boat to the US, import duties, fees, etc... it adds up quickly.

[YumGTR]

there is no "flat fee." customs duties and tariffs are 3% of the first $1000 value then 2.5% of the balance.

[pablito_s13]

Beautiful car man....must be nice

[acslater9]

That last picture in the first link given was too funny.

Anyways, isn't shipping expensive as shit just to ship it to the states? Let alone spending over 10k+ on the car itself.

[YumGTR]

thanks for the support!

[VegasDrifterS13]

Thats Cool. Too Bad theyre Radiated as F**k now. Watch out for Uranium and Plutonium Dust on any Imported stuff from Japan. Be Careful guys. Super Cool Cars and Engine swaps can cause Cancer now....

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

[tricky_ab]

That's cool. So will this actually drive the prices down and make r32's more accessible?

Do you know the cost all said and done?

BNR32? Nope. The costs are not going down, they are going up (along with the newer models).

GTS models? They are rather cheap...

[S14DB]

Thats Cool. Too Bad theyre Radiated as F**k now. Watch out for Uranium and Plutonium Dust on any Imported stuff from Japan. Be Careful guys. Super Cool Cars and Engine swaps can cause Cancer now....

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
Yeah, don't import anything post 1945...

Low-background steel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel)

[hobbs]

^Base R32s youre looking around $18-20K.. GTRs add $10-15K depending on condition and mileage. Then of course there are Nismos, V-spec, N1s..... mmmmm

35k for a R32, bahahaha....

You're nuts if you think that low mileage BNR32s will go for 30-35k. I'm all for cool cars but they are just 25 year old nissans, might as well go out and buy a built evo/sti for that price, have replacement parts readily available and newer and better technology. All of these people who are running out to grab 1989 R32s seem to forget all of the issues with the early RB26s such as the crank collars, oil pumps and oil flow to the heads. Not to mention replacement items such as the HICAS/AETTSA system, body parts and other hard to find new items.

Thats Cool. Too Bad theyre Radiated as F**k now. Watch out for Uranium and Plutonium Dust on any Imported stuff from Japan. Be Careful guys. Super Cool Cars and Engine swaps can cause Cancer now....

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Really? Some people are just too stupid....

[dudermagee]

^Base R32s youre looking around $18-20K.. GTRs add $10-15K depending on condition and mileage. Then of course there are Nismos, V-spec, N1s..... mmmmm

Really?
Rivsu Imports has 1990 R32 GTR, $14,600 all fees included
with 69,320 miles and light mods
https://www.facebook.com/rivsuimports

February 1990 R32 GTR - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc51Eostgnw)

I've asked around and the going price seems to be somewhere between 15k-20k.

[tricky_ab]

Really?
Rivsu Imports has 1990 R32 GTR, $14,600 all fees included
with 69,320 miles and light mods
https://www.facebook.com/rivsuimports

February 1990 R32 GTR - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc51Eostgnw)

I've asked around and the going price seems to be somewhere between 15k-20k.

That's a fair price for one, but I'd like to see the auction sheet of this model.

[exitspeed]

The story made it to Autoblog. Pretty awesome man.Say hello to the first US-legal 1989 Nissan Skyline GT-R - Autoblog (http://m.autoblog.com/2014/01/03/first-us-legal-nissan-skyline-gtr-registration/?post=1&icid=autoblog_river_article)

[dudermagee]

People have to keep in mind that very few people can afford 28k+ in cash.
Because no bank is going to finance one of these.

Then you have to think of the people that can afford it. How many of them would buy a 25 year old outdated sports car vs a brand new\almost brand new one for the same money.

The best part is that every year that we go forward the amount that are legal stateside jumps dramatically. Also, don't forget that other desirable cars are becoming legal as well.

Cefiro, anyone?

[Dolby109]

I rolled the dice and put all my money in one basket and bet it on the idea that I would be able to get it in on 1/1/14 and not be delayed until 8/1 or later and be forced to pay for 8 more months of storage in Canada while the vehicle sat around collecting dust. The bet happened to go my way, so I'm lucky.
This pretty much answers my first question that I had about weather you are able to buy the car before the 25 year mark and store it until the imort date.

The next question is are there any complications with title, registration, or insurance? Can all of that be done before crossing?
Is a filled out HS-7 the only thing you need to cross the border?


Edit: So is this YumGTR?
http://jalopnik.com/meet-the-man-who-legally-brought-the-first-r32-nissan-g-1493404343

[YumGTR]

have you guys seen this pop up on any other sites or forums? i'd love it if you would post links here. trying to stay on top of it all to prevent any misinformation or inaccuracies from spreading.

[tricky_ab]

People have to keep in mind that very few people can afford 28k+ in cash.
Because no bank is going to finance one of these.

Then you have to think of the people that can afford it. How many of them would buy a 25 year old outdated sports car vs a brand new\almost brand new one for the same money.

The best part is that every year that we go forward the amount that are legal stateside jumps dramatically. Also, don't forget that other desirable cars are becoming legal as well.

Cefiro, anyone?

It funny you mention this. I've been following BNR34 prices in Japan, as I plan to buy one in a few years. I'm a BIG GTR fan in general. There's two cars I REALLY want to own, and I already bought one of them. Even with being a diehard, looking at current auction/market prices, it's still going to be hard to swallow $30-40K for a car that's 15+ years old.

I hope the people who are importing these cars, understand the general maintenance, and operational costs associated with these cars.

There were quite a few people in Canada who got caught up in buying a GTR, then ran out of money with the quickness, once something went south. It's no joke to hear about people who have had cars down for years!

That being said, it's going to be nice seeing what fresh eyes do to some of these cars.

[exitspeed]

have you guys seen this pop up on any other sites or forums? i'd love it if you would post links here. trying to stay on top of it all to prevent any misinformation or inaccuracies from spreading.

I posted the one from Autoblog.

[Rak123]

You guys are exaggerating the prices on BNR32. I bought my Gtr 2 years ago. I paid $8000 it had 106,000 KM on the car all original stock intake/exhaust also. It needed new coil packs, O2 sensors and fuel pump. I was into it for $9000 at that point and it ran mint. 64869
Just come up to canada to buy them so we can all jack our prices up and make back what we have put into our cars.


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[Dolby109]

Yes but that was Canada only. US has a much larger population of people interested in GTR's. The prices have allready gone up for cars now or soon to be legal in the US. They may drop in a year or two when the early birds get thier cars. I can only hope.

[exitspeed]

You guys are exaggerating the prices on BNR32. I bought my Gtr 2 years ago. I paid $8000 it had 106,000 KM on the car all original stock intake/exhaust also. It needed new coil packs, O2 sensors and fuel pump. I was into it for $9000 at that point and it ran mint. 64869
Just come up to canada to buy them so we can all jack our prices up and make back what we have put into our cars.


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Pretty cool. I'm only a hop skip and a jump from Canada and I have a passport.

[S14DB]

This pretty much answers my first question that I had about weather you are able to buy the car before the 25 year mark and store it until the imort date.

As long as it doesn't enter the country you can store it. Just has to cross the border with all the paperwork in order and declared at the border.

[Bigalow311]

Maybe I'll get myself a Pulsar from Canada. :-)

Sent from my SC-03D using Tapatalk

[ShadowDrifter]

still ILLEGAL. To be fully LEGAL it has to go by the build date. They didn't start making r32's until may of 1989. Therefor the car it NOT legal and will sooner or later be sized.

[BossHogg]

still ILLEGAL. To be fully LEGAL it has to go by the build date. They didn't start making r32's until may of 1989. Therefor the car it NOT legal and will sooner or later be sized.

Sounds like August to me.

Nissan Skyline GT-R R32 Production Dates : GTR Forum / Skyline Forum (http://forums.nicoclub.com/nissan-skyline-gt-r-r32-production-dates-t569684.html)

I'm thinking though, as more of them get here "legally". That it will just be easier for all the ones that are already here to run around freely. Could be wrong, but just a thought. I'd rather be safe than sorry though.

[Dolby109]

still ILLEGAL. To be fully LEGAL it has to go by the build date. They didn't start making r32's until may of 1989. Therefor the car it NOT legal and will sooner or later be sized.
He has legal documentation, they cannot seize it. Even if the border inspector made a mistake the government cannot take the car. It would be like getting arrested for stealing because someone at a store accidentally undercharged you. Worst I could imagine them doing is telling him it is illegal to drive until its production month (or August).

[capone240]

The r32s are all used up over here in canada funny how you guys just got them


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[turbronegro]

I'm more excited about importing a diesel Pajero soon!

[K_style]

The r32s are all used up over here in canada funny how you guys just got them


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It's funny how you made 1st post with troll.

[sidewaysil80]

The r32s are all used up over here in canada funny how you guys just got them
I'd rather wait the extra 10 years than live in Canada.

[g35gabby]

I'd rather wait the extra 10 years than live in Canada.

:bowrofl::bowrofl:

He has legal documentation, they cannot seize it. Even if the border inspector made a mistake the government cannot take the car. It would be like getting arrested for stealing because someone at a store accidentally undercharged you. Worst I could imagine them doing is telling him it is illegal to drive until its production month (or August).

ask steve at at skylineownersusa about his R33.... Even if 11 agents and the car has changed hands 23 times, if the 12 agent deems it illegal, it is still illegal. Ever heard of someone being hit with fines, penalties, and interest for taxes they believed they had paid? It is the same thing.

There is a reason he is trying to keep the "misinformation" under control, and so that he doesn't have to deal with ICE or any other governing body about if the car is legal. yes it was a 89 car and turns 25 some time this year, but in canada they only care about build year.... so their paperwork only reflects build year. something that turns 25 this year, but was imported last year as a "gray car" won't be "legal" this year either, or there would be more sitting in storage waiting for the 25 year build date for a lot of people. Does the US Gov go by build year or build month? well that is really up for debate.

I want to call it a "gray area" but I don't want to call it a "gray car" just yet. Staying on the safe side and waiting till July to import mine. it is already paid for, just sitting in storage, and lucky before the prices have since jacked way up compared to what they were 6 months ago, or even 2 when I got mine.

For me, I hope they leave him alone and let it be. The car that I bring in in July will still be the same car it is today minus some sun fade. It turning 25 changes nothing to it, but if that is what they expect, then so be it.

Ps what a GTR costs and what a GTST can be hand for a two totally different things. It is why I opted for the more reasonably priced of the two. I never imagined I could afford one, but with a little budgeting and selling my S13 it was nothing. My first advice is instead of reading some of the ridiculous guesses as to what it costs (shipping a car doesn't cost 10k), hit up one of the importers. I used Rivsu, and so far have met every expectation I have had and more and have been a pleasure to deal with. Elvin and some of the other guys out in cali have all been very nice to deal with, but haven't exchanged money with any of them so I can only speak from the great experience I have had with Rivsu.

Congrats trevor and I hope all is well.

[capone240]

It's funny how you made 1st post with troll.

How the fucks that a troll ? Are you retarded or just stupid I simply stated that all the R32s are used up over here in Canada funny how you just got them in the US that's all that's it.. Please explain how this is a troll

[Joedrt]

still ILLEGAL. To be fully LEGAL it has to go by the build date. They didn't start making r32's until may of 1989. Therefor the car it NOT legal and will sooner or later be sized.

I'm pretty sure they made them in 1988 on the first ones built

[g35gabby]

I'm pretty sure they made them in 1988 on the first ones built

prototypes, production started in summer of 89

[coreyh]

I believe this is the most accurate translation of the exemption. It goes by BUILD DATE.

luckily in Canada they only put year, not year AND date like japan. hence why this one was legal.

[tricky_ab]

luckily in Canada they only put year, not year AND date like japan. hence why this one was legal.

Wait what? I bought (and currently imported) a S15 and I couldn't bring it into the country till the official build month (January, 1999), thus next month. It's listed on the release papers (Export Certificate, Translation, Bill of Lading and Bill of Sale) from the importers.

From what I understand, the seller didn't have the original paper work?

Either way, I'm glad he got it in without a hitch, but I hope more people don't get the idea that it's okay to bend the rules. That will ruin it for a lot of people...

[g35gabby]

luckily in Canada they only put year, not year AND date like japan. hence why this one was legal.

Canadian paperwork has build year, they don't change the vin plates and build dates on the door. So it is extremely debatable if it is "legal" or not.

[Moncef]

Canadian paperwork has build year, they don't change the vin plates and build dates on the door. So it is extremely debatable if it is "legal" or not.

Changing any of that on the door jambs/engine bay that was placed there by the manufacturer is illegal, yes.

I'm curious about the mfg date MM/YY instead of just the mfg year. But if he has federal documents with that chassis number qualifying him for 25 year exemption well it is what it is.

[KiLLeR2001]

Just for clarification, the R32 was produced from 05/89 to 11/94. They began producing the R32 GT-R on 08/89.

[coreyh]

Wait what? I bought (and currently imported) a S15 and I couldn't bring it into the country till the official build month (January, 1999), thus next month. It's listed on the release papers (Export Certificate, Translation, Bill of Lading and Bill of Sale) from the importers.

From what I understand, the seller didn't have the original paper work?

Either way, I'm glad he got it in without a hitch, but I hope more people don't get the idea that it's okay to bend the rules. That will ruin it for a lot of people...

if they did it right (and this is just dealing with others importing cars, not personal experience.) when they de-register it in japan, the vin becomes "invisible" so the car technically doesn't exist, then Canadian customs only requires build year, not the date and year. (again just going off friends words who have imported, not my experiences). so if he had the Canadian paperwork and not the Japanese paperwork it could be one big loophole? again this is all speculation, don't quote me.

[tricky_ab]

if they did it right (and this is just dealing with others importing cars, not personal experience.) when they de-register it in japan, the vin becomes "invisible" so the car technically doesn't exist, then Canadian customs only requires build year, not the date and year. (again just going off friends words who have imported, not my experiences). so if he had the Canadian paperwork and not the Japanese paperwork it could be one big loophole? again this is all speculation, don't quote me.

I can't speak on how they do things in the United States, but in Canada the VIN is still intact when it lands. You actually apply for a re assigned VIN number (Though in my province, I believe the Japanese VIN information is valid). They DO in fact go by the month and year in Canada. I know there's a bunch of grey market cars running around. Hell, I've seen a S15 and a BNR34 in Montreal a few years ago.

[coreyh]

I can't speak on how they do things in the United States, but in Canada the VIN is still intact when it lands. You actually apply for a re assigned VIN number (Though in my province, I believe the Japanese VIN information is valid). They DO in fact go by the month and year in Canada. I know there's a bunch of grey market cars running around. Hell, I've seen a S15 and a BNR34 in Montreal a few years ago.

thanks for clearing that up, but im thoroughly confused on how its legal

[nujabe]

I'm curious how you could buy one and reg in California.. can it be done?

[300Zollars]

I like the fact they are legal here in the states now.. but sad that they will lose value. Just as if all the true rhd 240's never came to the states everyone would still die to have one. but now its a matter of searching craigslist for one. Not saying any of this is bad at all. Just a bit sad. Much love for all nissans sport line. :bowdown: !!! NISSAN !!!

[S14DB]

I'm curious how you could buy one and reg in California.. can it be done?
Not a GTR but, Anything 21 yrs or older you could bring in without the engine and drop an eRod kit in it.

[coreyh]

Not a GTR but, Anything 21 yrs or older you could bring in without the engine and drop an eRod kit in it.

since the car came with the engine it can be made smog legal. its oem equipment so its technically legal

[YumGTR]

still ILLEGAL. To be fully LEGAL it has to go by the build date. They didn't start making r32's until may of 1989. Therefor the car it NOT legal and will sooner or later be sized.

le sigh. well this escalated quickly these past few days.

there's a business/legal principle called "good faith" and another called "due dilligence."

customs/cbp/ice/dot/nhtsa, *NONE* of them define in writing *ANYWHERE* how they specifically interpret the words "25 years old." EPA is a branch of the same federal government, and they are the only agency that does define how they define a non-conforming vehicle's age for the purpose of importation into the US.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/imports/documents/420b10027.pdf

Please say page "vi" in the above linked PDF file and all other references to the "OP" age of non-conforming cars. There was some confusion at some point apparently because some countries/states list the year of a vehicle based on the date it was first registered for use. other countries/states use the actual manufacture date. other countries/states use whatever the hell the manufacturer wants to call the car. For example, as far back as June 2013 I remember seeing "2014" model year vehicles for sale. Are you hearing this? Many 2014 model year vehicles were clearly neither sold, or even manufactured in 2014. So to clear up this confusion on determining the age of a non-conforming car, the EPA (speaking for the US Federal Gov't) defined "OP" (original production) age as the one that they (the gov't) will go by. This doc and many others clearly state that to calculate the age of a vehicle you take the current calendar year and subtract the original year of production and that gives you the "OP" age and if it's over X years old, it is exempt from emissions compliance standards for in effect when it was manufactured.

Everyone following so far? Good, let's continue our discussion.

Please see the relevant sections of the *ACTUAL FEDERAL LAW* as recorded in the CFR here:

Determining Vehicle Age From Model Year : 25 Year Old Cars | Vehicle Import and Car Importing FAQ (http://vehicleimport.blogspot.com/2014/01/determining-vehicle-age-from-model-year.html)

so let's get back to good faith. I as the buyer of the 1989 R32 Skline GT-R in question, purchased in summer 2013 and stored in a garage in New Brunswick province, Canada, interpreted the age of my vehicle to be 25 years as of 1/1/14, based on the EPA's definition of a vehicle's age. You will notice that not only does the EPA not mention anything about production month, but Customs/CBP/ICE/DOT/NHTSA/etc... *ALSO* (read again, ****ALSO****) don't define their interpretation of "25 years old" anywhere in writing that I could find, to include the production month or day.

Therefore, according to my interpretation and an absence of any written guidance from the government in ANY part of the CFR or any other publication, or web site, etc... my car was "25 years old" on January 1, 2014. Now, the problem with this prior to the car's importation was that maybe Customs/CBP/ICE/DOT/NHTSA had a different and unpublished interpretation that they had provided guidance for to all of the CBP agents at all of the US ports of entry around the country. I had no way of knowing if this was the case, and I am certainly not going to call and ask a policy question (seek permission) on the Nissan Skyline because I know that to NHTSA those two words when used together in the same sentence are vulgarities.

So I acknowledged to myself and my wife and my friends that I could very well get to the US Border with the car, and have a CBP officer tell me, "No, we have received guidance that we need to wait until the production month to reach the 25 year threshold before a non-conforming vehicle can be imported under this exemption." and turn me away until the actual production month. Or even, "No, I need to call DOT/NHTSA/my boss in the morning when they are open/available and I can't see fit at this moment right now to clear your car because I just don't know if the car is really 25 years old." Or any number of other possibilities all of which might have precluded me from clearing the car with US customs on 1/1/14.

Despite this risk, I went to the border with the car, *IN GOOD FAITH* having filled out my DOT HS-7 and EPA 3520-1 forms listing "1989" as the production date and checking the boxes for an age exempt vehicle, and having literally no other way to document with any more authoritative specificity than that, what the exact production date was. The CBP officer asked me if there was any document that I had or sticker on the car (like US models) listing the month and year of manufacture. I didn't have a document or sticker with that information.

Absent an exact documented production month, and armed only with "1989" on the Canadian registration, and on my declarations, the CBP officer had a judgment call to make. The officer I dealt with instead used deductive reasoning and mentioned that 2014 model year vehicles have been on sale for quite some time in the US (starting mid-2013), and that in the absence of any information to the contrary, he had no way of knowing that this "1989" BNR32 GTR wasn't actually made in 1988, and even if it wasn't he contended, 2014 minus 1989 = 25 years. This is also how I happened to interpret the age of the vehicle based on the definition given by the only US Federal gov't agency I could find anywhere.

So remember, in good faith, with no inaccuracies or lies or any kind of deception whatsoever on my part, I declared the car at the border, I supplied the appropriate forms, I answered all of the questions the CBP officer asked me, I paid the tariffs and duties he asked me to, he stamped all of my paperwork and gave me my actual customs entry form, and sent me on my way into the US with the first legally imported 1989 R32 Skyline GT-R.

The difference between my car and my import and my situation and every other car that the feds have ever seized is that the only way that those cars entered the country was through deception or inaccuracies or downright lies printed on their declaration forms, or by being smuggled and not declared to customs at all. For example, a friend bought a 2002 R34 GT-R VSpec II Nur that was imported by Motorex while they were still in business. When we called NHTSA about the car, they informed us that the car (even though imported by Motorex) was classified as "export only" due to the fact that Motorex had declared it as a 1995 model year on its customs paperwork.

I don't know the situation with Steve's car (From SOUSA/Rivsu Imports) or why it got confiscated, but I did read the letter he was sent requesting that he export the vehicle or turn it over, and it was based on the vehicle not conforming to US FMVSS and EPA Clean Air Act emissions standards. I don't know if the car came into the country in bits and pieces and was declared as "car parts" and then re-assembled, or if it was declared as a US market car that was returning, or how it was imported. It doesn't really matter. The bottom line is that based on the vehicle's age, if it had been declared to customs legally and honestly for what it was, it would not have fit under any of the boxes to be allowed entry into the country. So that car, and many others in similar situations, were imported illegally and non-compliant and non-exempt from compliance, and therefore subject to confiscation and export requirements or forfeiture to the federal government.

Let's talk about bad faith. *WHAT KIND OF BAD FAITH* would the US federal gov't under the auspices of Customs/CBP/ICE/DOT/NHTSA have to apply to my situation to retroactively decide that the CBP officer that cleared my car made a mistake, or didn't do his due diligence to find an authoritative answer if he wasn't clear on the matter, forcing me to export the car for what, *SEVEN MORE MONTHS*?? That situation sounds like a broad abuse of power and serious bad faith in response to the legitimate good faith that I exercised in declaring the car for legal importation. They would have to convince a judge to sign a seizure warrant for my car, because the constitution prevents them from depriving me of property without due process of law. Under the 5th and 14th amendments to the US constitution that offer me due process of law as one of my rights as a US citizen, I would have to be given the right to argue the merits of my case before the same judge that the government is asking to sign a seizure warrant. The government would have to demonstrate some willful violation of law on my part in an affidavit to support their request for a warrant.

I'm also pretty sure that the government doesn't want to humiliate a CBP agent who made a judgment call that was within his discretion and authority to make to clear my car after reviewing my docs and educating himself as to the applicable laws and regulations. It would just be terribly poor judgment and leadership on the gov't's part to delegate the authority to their CBP officers to handle situations like this, then come back afterward and micro-manage the situation, and without any documentable written policy or guidance, basically tell the officer he made a mistake.

So there you have it. I acted in good faith. To seize my car, or rescind my import clearance, until August (which I have learned is the build date according to Nissan FAST software), would be acting in extremely bad faith. No judge in their right mind (save for an ex parte motion and hearing) would agree that I deserve to be punished by being deprived my personal property, because I acted in good faith and didn't do anything illegal. Besides, what benefit would the public at large or the country or the government derive in a judge allowing ICE to come and seize my car and force me to export it, or forfeit ownership? Think about that for a minute.

At any point before 1/1/14, if NHTSA didn't want cars coming in that weren't exactly "365 days a year, 12 months a year, 25 years old", they could have done their due diligence and clarified their wishes with formal published guidance in a rule entered into the CFR, or in a publication online somewhere, or even backchannel informally with the appropriate enforcement agencies (Customs/CBP/ICE, etc...). NHTSA could have done their due diligence clarified to Customs via a Memorandum of Understanding that their officers are to perform their own due diligence on cars that are declared for import to verify the exact month and day of production to count toward the "25 years old" requirement. But they didn't.

And think about that also: how on earth is every single CBP officer at every single port of entry into the US going to have the tools to look up and verify the month of production for every single vehicle declared for import under the 25 year rule? Sure, Nissan has the FAST tool that the US Gov't could license for use to look up foreign market Nissan vehicles. But what about Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, BMW, Mercedes, Peugeot, Citroen, etc... etc... and every other vehicle manufacturer out there that has ever sold a car manufactured for sale in a non-US market. The answer is that they can't and they won't. It's hugely impractical. They didn't do their due diligence at any opportunity that they could have taken to do so.

The government (NHTSA) may tell Customs to watch out for 1989 Skylines because manufacturing didn't start on them until August, and because they hate Skylines so much this isn't that much of a stretch. But the possibility of this forthcoming new policy guidance will absolutely not apply retroactively to me or my car.

So I say to all the Skyline haters in the US Gov't that have spent countless millions of tax payer dollars preventing the importation of a single model of a god damn car for so many years: WELCOME TO THE YEAR OF THE NISSAN SKYLINE GT-R.

I would further add to all you perspective importers of 1989 Skylines: GO FOR IT! Take your cars to the border. Write "1989" on your HS-7 and 3520-1 forms. Don't ask for permission or clarification when it may not help you! They say that it's easier to ask for forgiveness sometimes, and I believe that applies here.

Don't believe me? Look me up in a month, two months, three months. See if what I have been said here has been vindicated or if I'm up in the night.

Cheers,

-T

[240boi115]

subbed because this^^^^is shiz i need to know 0.0

[S14DB]

since the car came with the engine it can be made smog legal. its oem equipment so its technically legal
The RB never came complaint in the US. It is much cheaper to drop a US EPA compliant engine in there then to certify a RB.

[yabeet]

:ugh: I feel bad for you guys, just brought in an R34 4 door with an rb26 swap.

[BossHogg]

we feel bad for you because the flames suck and so do 4 door skylines.

[supersayianjim]

^^um no!!!!!

[yabeet]

we feel bad for you because the flames suck and so do 4 door skylines.

Only thing that suck about skylines are rb25s. :)

[BossHogg]

the only thing that sucks about skylines is anything that's not a gtr. You fanboys are in love with the name. Skylines wouldn't be shit if it wasn't for the gtr....... If the supra and rx-7 had a seriously detuned shit ass 4 door version, would you all be humping that to? Get real.

The only 4 door skyline that is cool....was renamed a Stagea

[yabeet]

the only thing that sucks about skylines is anything that's not a gtr. You fanboys are in love with the name. Skylines wouldn't be shit if it wasn't for the gtr....... If the supra and rx-7 had a seriously detuned shit ass 4 door version, would you all be humping that to? Get real.

The only 4 door skyline that is cool....was renamed a Stagea

So if everything non-gtr sucks, why did you choose an rb25 for your build? Oh thats right, its actually relatively decent on a better budget for your pockets. Im just havin a joke and you are flipping your switch.

[Joedrt]

I like the 4 door skylines

[simmode1]

I dunno, man... Everything I've heard says that even if the GTR didn't exist, the RWD Skylines were still really good performers. The RB25 isn't the greatest in the world, but it's still pretty damn solid.

But it just amazes me how Nissan could offer both coupe/sedan Skylines, Z32's and Silvia's all with different RWD chassis and engines. I love the variety, but they was doing too much, man. No wonder they almost went bankrupt.

[coreyh]

The RB never came complaint in the US. It is much cheaper to drop a US EPA compliant engine in there then to certify a RB.

the thing is you don't need to certify an engine the car came with. The same law that applied for non-California cars applies to the rb/sr/ca/any other oem engine. they would just analyze the car (being older than 1995 a 5-gas at idle,1500, and in some cases 2500 rpm is needed) per state minimums, which are surprisingly high. if you filled your rb with premium, drove it for 50 miles, and didn't have a mil light, you'd pass.

I'm 3 classes away from being level 1 certified (test only with STAR cert.) and asked my instructor about this topic exactly.

I thought he was lying, I still do, but he's been doing this since the s12 was in showrooms.

[S14DB]

the thing is you don't need to certify an engine the car came with. The same law that applied for non-California cars applies to the rb/sr/ca/any other oem engine. they would just analyze the car (being older than 1995 a 5-gas at idle,1500, and in some cases 2500 rpm is needed) per state minimums, which are surprisingly high. if you filled your rb with premium, drove it for 50 miles, and didn't have a mil light, you'd pass.

I'm 3 classes away from being level 1 certified (test only with STAR cert.) and asked my instructor about this topic exactly.

I thought he was lying, I still do, but he's been doing this since the s12 was in showrooms.
Wouldn't make it past EPA unless it was over 25yrs. 21 yrs is with a compliant engine.

Post 76 CARB is a bureaucratic nightmare. I'm surprised they wouldn't be all anal about not having EVAP and other ancillary emissions equipment on it.

[coreyh]

Wouldn't make it past EPA unless it was over 25yrs. 21 yrs is with a compliant engine.

Post 76 CARB is a bureaucratic nightmare. I'm surprised they wouldn't be all anal about not having EVAP and other ancillary emissions equipment on it.

and we are dealing with cars that ARE over 25 years. I should have specified that in my original post. Although they are trying to move legislation through thatll raise the exemption law up to '81.

and again out of state cars are easier since they are usdm. when my brother brought his car back with him from Arizona it shouldn't have passed, but since it was originally out of state they issued him a new epa sticker with what was on the car and sent him on his way.

[Matej]

The more attention this gets, the more likely the government will be to make up some excuse to keep Skylines illegal. :)

[Vandrel]

I don't know the situation with Steve's car (From SOUSA/Rivsu Imports) or why it got confiscated, but I did read the letter he was sent requesting that he export the vehicle or turn it over, and it was based on the vehicle not conforming to US FMVSS and EPA Clean Air Act emissions standards. I don't know if the car came into the country in bits and pieces and was declared as "car parts" and then re-assembled, or if it was declared as a US market car that was returning, or how it was imported. It doesn't really matter. The bottom line is that based on the vehicle's age, if it had been declared to customs legally and honestly for what it was, it would not have fit under any of the boxes to be allowed entry into the country. So that car, and many others in similar situations, were imported illegally and non-compliant and non-exempt from compliance, and therefore subject to confiscation and export requirements or forfeiture to the federal government.

Just for the record, that R33 was introduced into the U.S. back in 2004 by a guy in the Air Force rotating back from Okinawa, not by myself or Rivsu Imports. It was seized because DHS was unable to locate any documentation for it's entry into the U.S. despite the vehicle being titled in Utah in 2004 and later Ohio, Missouri, New Jersey, New Hampshire and at one point even owned by a guy named Scotty who won the X Games. Despite 7 years of paper trails from each state titling it for each owner, passing state inspections, etc. it still wasn't enough to prevent the car from being seized in 2011. All that goes to show is no matter how long a car is in the country it can always be taken if there's any question about if it's legal or not. What I do know is that the government will say it's up to the owner to prove the vehicle is legal if DHS has no record to support it and if the owner is unable to do so then it's as good as gone. Burden of proof is on the government to say it's illegal but later falls to the owner after the government says they can't prove it's legal due to a administrative error or whatever the case may be.

Regardless, I don't think Trevor has anything to worry about. If the government were to make use of FY2014 funds just to seize a vehicle that is later exempt and legal in less then 12 months at the end of FY2014 then I think we'd see some other issues coming about. DHS and ICE have all been under the microscope for the past 3 years over fraud, waste and abuse scandals as well as conduct unbecoming cases at the senior leadership level. Make no mistake, the objective of seizing a vehicle is to justify a budget each year but certain people have to also justify the use of funds within the budget. With the government slimming down and budgets being cut I don't see any of this making progress on their side before they can have a chance to make a difference prior to the flood gates opening in 8-9 months.

[hOngsterr]

hopefully the wheels will be cheaper lol

[BossHogg]

So if everything non-gtr sucks, why did you choose an rb25 for your build? Oh thats right, its actually relatively decent on a better budget for your pockets. Im just havin a joke and you are flipping your switch.

Are you retarded? I have a 240sx not a skyline. Comparing a skyline to a s13 lol. That's like importing a silvia J's. Nobody in their right mind is waiting 25 years for a damn 4 door skyline lol. I could just have easily bought a rb26. But when you plan on rb28 or going rb30....the intial choice doesn't matter. Keep going, your posts are funny. Please show what switch I have flipped? You're just mad i'm not praising your car after you came in trying to feel cool. But I guess Canadians need to capitalize on those rare, rare moments.

[Kingtal0n]

I was told by someone working for the DHS, who had just seized an R34 and RX-7, that if you wanted to bring an R33 with a OBD-II engine it would be fine. And this was 7 years ago. I am not sure how that could happen, but its just FWIW. I remember an S14 silvia being seized, and the owner contacted Nissan in Japan and got a letter about the chassis being similar the one here in the USA, to try and keep the car here. But then the problem was the Emissions compliance, something about OBD-II and by then the cost of keeping the car (storage?) was so high it was auctioned off.

The same DHS employee also told me that our engine swaps (SR20 etc...) are also illegal. She said technically the 240sx could be seized with that engine installed.

[S14DB]

I was told by someone working for the DHS, who had just seized an R34 and RX-7, that if you wanted to bring an R33 with a OBD-II engine it would be fine. And this was 7 years ago. I am not sure how that could happen, but its just FWIW. I remember an S14 silvia being seized, and the owner contacted Nissan in Japan and got a letter about the chassis being similar the one here in the USA, to try and keep the car here. But then the problem was the Emissions compliance, something about OBD-II and by then the cost of keeping the car (storage?) was so high it was auctioned off.

The same DHS employee also told me that our engine swaps (SR20 etc...) are also illegal. She said technically the 240sx could be seized with that engine installed.
OBD-II is a US standard. I would think a Z32 OBDII ECU would be your only option.

1993 and older 240sx's can't be touched by the EPA. Your state millage may vary.

[Vandrel]

The same DHS employee also told me that our engine swaps (SR20 etc...) are also illegal. She said technically the 240sx could be seized with that engine installed.

There's a deeper side to this topic here which is correct. The clean air act is pretty clear in it's wording but you won't find the government wasting it's time to deal with the countless motor swapped cars in the country.