Failed SMOG again in CA...High NOX count....

[worangejuice]

failed SMOG in CA. 180,000 miles, original everything i think, new spark plugs, stock intake, custom 2.5 piping fart can exhaust, seafoamed 2 years ago..........My NOXX readings are off the charts... Im gonna look at EGR and seafoam it, besides tune-up (distributor, wires,cap, CAT(hope not))can anybody suggest anything else???
http://31.media.tumblr.com/9b7730ab841bfe65266cf93ef0ffa486/tumblr_mxd3a6zi5K1r3box4o1_1280.jpg
*UPDATE*
http://31.media.tumblr.com/60579510c683497b5ca87ca8a08af35a/tumblr_mxmduu7d391r3box4o2_1280.jpg
So my readings are significantly better. SMOG tech said its my BPT Valve. Because its not recirculating emissions back into EGR.
Vaccuum tested BPT also and no pressure at all. I watched him test, he was pretty cool. He said if it was a bad CAT then all the readings would be fairly high across board (all would be effected)
I guess id need to clean the intake runners as well?
I had car running hot also (drove around for hours)
I am down to half a tank and that "guaranteed pass" bottle stated to run tank empty and then put gas in then SMOG test. But Ive been driving all over town and just need to SMOG to sell to a buyer like 4 days ago........F'ng A MAN

[mechanicalmoron]

Seafoam it, directly before taking it for a long highway drive, like 100 miles. And don't be afraid to open 'er up. Get the whole motor, and the cat, really hot.

After you make sure your pair valve isn't crudded up, egr works, etc.

[worangejuice]

Seafoam it, directly before taking it for a long highway drive, like 100 miles. And don't be afraid to open 'er up. Get the whole motor, and the cat, really hot.

After you make sure your pair valve isn't crudded up, egr works, etc.

Thanks, yeah that sounds good, first is first to check that GODDAMN EGR............

[ZenkiKid]

when it doubt, Replace your cat.

[zerodameaon]

Obviously fix your timing and your vacuum lines, that will cause issues, you would not have passed even if your numbers were perfect. Seafoam it, and replace your cat, its 20yo with 180k and it needs to go regardless. They are cheap if you buy the magnaflow that is CA approved for our cars. Also if you figure out how to secure the cat shield back on there they won't even bother to check.

[DALAZ_68]

Run some garuntee passed from Autozone...blue packaging...

[KevinEdgar]

Guarantee pass is bs. Fix the real problems, I had the same high nox problem with mine a few years ago.
Order of most effective :
1 buy brand new magnaflow cat
2 timing must be on point
3 fresh 02 sensor
4 clean out egr
5 put some denatured alcohol in gas tank
6 run car hard before smog and do not turn vehicle off

Good luck dude.

[g35gabby]

"gross polluter" is the funniest thing I have seen in a while.

I don't know much about Cali emissions, but I do have my factory exhaust+cat here sitting around if you need it lmk. shipping the exhaust would be difficult, but the cat should be simple enough.

[KevinEdgar]

"gross polluter" is the funniest thing I have seen in a while.

I don't know much about Cali emissions, but I do have my factory exhaust+cat here sitting around if you need it lmk. shipping the exhaust would be difficult, but the cat should be simple enough.

^x2 I also have stock exhaust + used magnaflow cat laying around you can use. Idk where Weeehooo is though.

[Rich260z]

I'm guessing it's west hollywood.

[koukikat180sx]

Seeing the gross polluter was pretty entertaining... I'm trying not to laugh too hard because karma comes around.

I dropped close to $1k at Gushi auto a couple of months ago just to get my car to pass smog properly. (Mine was not as bad as yours though...) I needed the o rings replaced on my injectors, new spark plugs, changed the spark plug wires, distributor cap and rotor, new CA magnaflow cat, knock sensor... I feel like I'm forgetting something, but yeah... Expensive stuff, but my car is super clean now! :w00t: Good luck.

[mechanicalmoron]

Seeing the gross polluter was pretty entertaining... I'm trying not to laugh too hard because karma comes around.

I dropped close to $1k at Gushi auto a couple of months ago just to get my car to pass smog properly. (Mine was not as bad as yours though...) I needed the o rings replaced on my injectors, new spark plugs, changed the spark plug wires, distributor cap and rotor, new CA magnaflow cat, knock sensor... I feel like I'm forgetting something, but yeah... Expensive stuff, but my car is super clean now! :w00t: Good luck.

No offence, but a lot of that is just paranoia and placebo.

You probably changed one or two things that actually did something. Cap and rotor can't hurt, cat if the last was bad, etc. If your motor was even drivable, the injector o-rings where fine, plug wires probably fine (you can check their resistance with a multimeter, it's .37 ohms.... or uhh, some multiple of ten by that.

OP, seriously, just first clean pair and egr, and then get it really hot, seafoam it, and get it even hotter, for a long time. Go on a weekend drive on a fun twisty highway, or something. Burn the living fuck out of all the deposits in it. Run it wide open. Then, if you still so desire, do plugs and cap/rotor. The italian tune-up.

If that fails, get a cat. But I doubt you need one if you just burn it out.

[milto0n]

Look at your EGR first. IDK why everyone is suggesting for you to buy new things yet when you haven't even began a comprehensive review of your emissions equipment. Before spending any money look behind your engine block and use common sense. Does anything not look normal? Are there cracked/ripped vaccum lines? When you rev the engine, does your EGR valve lift? Me and california Emissions are mortal enemies and I've had my share of experiences failing unfortunately.

I'd say inspect motor first. Look for exhaust leaks (particularly pre cat). Test for vaccum leaks (blow into the IACV port and listen for whistling if you want to do it free lol). If any of those vaccum lines behind the engine block are ripped, you will hear the leak. Run seafoam. Do a tune up (really cheap to do yourself anyways.) Replace o2 sensor. CHECK YOUR TIMING!!! Replace cat as a later resort (and save it for next inspection!)

[zerodameaon]

Replace cat as a later resort (and save it for next inspection!)

You are spot on for what you said above this, but wrong when you say cat last. The fucking thing is 20yo and has 180k mi on it. Yes high NOX is no always a indicator of a bad cat but the damn thing is old and it needs to be replaced regardless.

One thing that affects NOX a lot is timing and yours is way wrong, last time I had a smog I had to have +-3*. Also vac leaks maybe causing your car to lean out could raise your temps causing nox.

Seafoam, change your oil, change your plugs, change your cat, fix what you failed on visual, then go again. Do not rely on denatured alcohol as I have given that a try twice with worse results then before, its not always a fix all.

[JF_OverBoosted]

lol DAM. My dad had the exact problem with his '96 GST Eclipse.
Only problem was his ECU (other ECU was tuned)

Good luck though dude. I spend about $300 total to pass my S13 vert LEGALLY.

[andisan]

My issue was all dirty emission components, so before you start buying new parts, take all your emission parts and clean them real good, take them apart and clean them, I learned the hard way

[yetijeff]

Pop the Allen caps on top of ur intake mani runners. They're clean outs for ur egr ports. 90% of these cars have never been cleaned and are packed solid with carbon not allowing egr gasses to pass through.

[zerodameaon]

Home Depot sells a really good bush for this project, also spray the caps down with PB Blaster for a day or two and then get a good pipe and you should be able to get them off with no effort at all. Then use the seafoam intake spray and some carb cleaner along with the brush. Let it air out a bit then seal it up and start the car, it will stumble and have issues idling for a bit. Then do the other passages if you can get to them and repeat the process after which you should do the main one again. Then its a good idea to do your seafoam after this because you already should change your plugs and oil after spraying all that shit into your cylinders.

[zooopreme]

^That

My issue was all dirty emission components, so before you start buying new parts, take all your emission parts and clean them real good, take them apart and clean them, I learned the hard way

This

Pop the Allen caps on top of ur intake mani runners. They're clean outs for ur egr ports. 90% of these cars have never been cleaned and are packed solid with carbon not allowing egr gasses to pass through.

And this


These posts should be the first things you should try before taking your car back for a smog check. Chances are these parts are backed up and dirty as hell.

Then proceed with the cheaper things on the list and work your way to the more expensive parts if you're still not passing. If you wanted to pass smog with flying colors, you're going to have to do a lot more.

But if that's something you don't want to do, since smog is such a headache when the car runs fine and is relatively stock, get the car to where it barely passes and then proceed to replace/fix.

[worangejuice]

^That



This

Originally Posted by andisan
My issue was all dirty emission components, so before you start buying new parts, take all your emission parts and clean them real good, take them apart and clean them, I learned the hard way

And this

Originally Posted by yetijeff
Pop the Allen caps on top of ur intake mani runners. They're clean outs for ur egr ports. 90% of these cars have never been cleaned and are packed solid with carbon not allowing egr gasses to pass through.


These posts should be the first things you should try before taking your car back for a smog check. Chances are these parts are backed up and dirty as hell.

Then proceed with the cheaper things on the list and work your way to the more expensive parts if you're still not passing. If you wanted to pass smog with flying colors, you're going to have to do a lot more.

But if that's something you don't want to do, since smog is such a headache when the car runs fine and is relatively stock, get the car to where it barely passes and then proceed to replace/fix.

prob try this next, just need to sell the damn thing, its been months of registtering, and smog is the last headache, i have buyer ready.......
1.replaced plugs
2.cleaned out egr intake,behind allen bolt above throttle body
3.used that 'guarantee to pass' stuff (1/2 tank now)
4.seafoamed it

took to a korean shop and guy spoke no english
i fixed alot of stuff and took to a english speaking shop.
said visual inspection fail. one hose was off and EGR doesnt have all hoses hooked up. so I have to hook hoses up. guy i got car from said EGR hooked up fucked car up, so imgonna hook it up properly and go back, Car runs amazinly strong!!! but CA emmisions are the devil..........dreading buying a cat, prob go the illegal route at that point......fucking CA

Oh and im in koreatown

[mechanicalmoron]

prob try this next, just need to sell the damn thing, its been months of registtering, and smog is the last headache, i have buyer ready.......
1.replaced plugs
2.cleaned out egr intake,behind allen bolt above throttle body
3.used that 'guarantee to pass' stuff (1/2 tank now)
4.seafoamed it

took to a korean shop and guy spoke no english
i fixed alot of stuff and took to a english speaking shop.
said visual inspection fail. one hose was off and EGR doesnt have all hoses hooked up. so I have to hook hoses up. guy i got car from said EGR hooked up fucked car up, so imgonna hook it up properly and go back, Car runs amazinly strong!!! but CA emmisions are the devil..........dreading buying a cat, prob go the illegal route at that point......fucking CA

Oh and im in koreatown

.....what do you mean, the illegal route... the only route to pass is legal, as far as the cat goes.

OF COURSE not having the egr hooked up, which the guy TOLD YOU ABOUT, would make you fail.... hurrdurr.

Drive it hard for a while, and run it at a high idle as you wait your turn. Like, 2k+.

[zerodameaon]

Drive it hard for a while, and run it at a high idle as you wait your turn. Like, 2k+.

What so he can waste gas? Sitting in line revving your engine does not help and only calls attention to yourself.

Also unless your best friend will hook you up buying a cat is cheaper and well, not illegal.

[mechanicalmoron]

What so he can waste gas? Sitting in line revving your engine does not help and only calls attention to yourself.

Also unless your best friend will hook you up buying a cat is cheaper and well, not illegal.

No, just let it chill at a fast idle, if it's possible and not obvious.. Don't be all fast and the furious.

Nothing to do with wasting gas. If you don't understand why a hot motor is considerably more likely to have good numbers, there's no helping you.... but I'll try.

When your motor is cold (idle is quite cold, even if it's "warmed up") the combustion is not as complete - this is why we have all these systems that kick in at idle to help with emissions. Oil burns and makes gummy stuff that will burn when you do have to get rpms up for the tests - this is why a car that burns oil will sit and idle and not smoke, but when you touch the throttle it makes clouds - hopefully his car's not that bad obviously, but even a perfect engine MUST burn oil, by design, because it's what lubricates the rings. But the gas as well, and everything sitting around moving slowly in the egr passages and such - if the cat's not so good, you don't want it getting cold, that's why we have a pair valve - to keep it "cooking". You want to go in there with a blisteringly hot engine that's had all the crud burnt out of it right up until the last moment, and a cat that's super hot so it's actually converting like it should be.

Basically your motor slowly fills with coal when it runs cold. Coal is dirty. Dirty fails tests. When it's hot it can keep up with it's own waste production, as well as simply producing less of it. This is also what seafoam helps dissolve, so it can be burnt the rest of the way and blasted out.


Now, I'm half expecting something about how that's what valve seals and piston rings take care of, and they should be replaced.... But if you're not volunteering to pay for his oem rebuild, that's irrelevant. This is an old motor that's probably out of tolerances in many ways. We wouldn't be discussing this at all if it was a perfect situation with a car that had no trouble with this test.

[worangejuice]

*UPDATE*
http://31.media.tumblr.com/60579510c683497b5ca87ca8a08af35a/tumblr_mxmduu7d391r3box4o2_1280.jpg
So my readings are significantly better. SMOG tech said its my BPT Valve. Because its not recirculating emissions back into EGR.
Vaccuum tested BPT also and no pressure at all. I watched him test, he was pretty cool. He said if it was a bad CAT then all the readings would be fairly high across board (all would be effected)
I guess id need to clean the intake runners as well?
I had car running hot also (drove around for hours)
I am down to half a tank and that "guaranteed pass" bottle stated to run tank empty and then put gas in then SMOG test. But Ive been driving all over town and just need to SMOG to sell to a buyer like 4 days ago........F'ng A MAN
NOt "Gross Polluter" on one now, progress? just a 'fail' now ugh.....
INput greatly appreciated........

[mechanicalmoron]

*UPDATE*
http://31.media.tumblr.com/60579510c683497b5ca87ca8a08af35a/tumblr_mxmduu7d391r3box4o2_1280.jpg
So my readings are significantly better. SMOG tech said its my BPT Valve. Because its not recirculating emissions back into EGR.
Vaccuum tested BPT also and no pressure at all. I watched him test, he was pretty cool. He said if it was a bad CAT then all the readings would be fairly high across board (all would be effected)
I guess id need to clean the intake runners as well?
I had car running hot also (drove around for hours)
I am down to half a tank and that "guaranteed pass" bottle stated to run tank empty and then put gas in then SMOG test. But Ive been driving all over town and just need to SMOG to sell to a buyer like 4 days ago........F'ng A MAN
NOt "Gross Polluter" on one now, progress? just a 'fail' now ugh.....
INput greatly appreciated........

Honestly I don't know what a bpt is, but if it's the egr, take whatever you need to off, and clean it by hand.

The test pass stuff, like seafoam, can't really reach the egr, because it's already burnt by that time. Don't waste your time and gas driving through the rest of the tank.

It still says tampered....?

[worangejuice]

Honestly I don't know what a bpt is, but if it's the egr, take whatever you need to off, and clean it by hand.

The test pass stuff, like seafoam, can't really reach the egr, because it's already burnt by that time. Don't waste your time and gas driving through the rest of the tank.

It still says tampered....?
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e25/vancouverbc_2008/egr.jpg
yeah, Im not sure why, these jerks in koreatown are creepin in deep! lights by the firewall. Caught, 1 of 4 tiny hoses under throttle body disconnected and were like "HOLY CRAP". so maybe i should go elsewhere later:Ownedd:. the Egr is directly connected to the BPT *EGR backpressure transducer*
guy vaccuum tested and said it should have pressure/vaccuum, no vaccuum, no EGR working to pull emissions(evaporated gases) back through the system=high nox is what im getting.
EGR is cleanable i read, but the BPT is one of those 'replace only' POS!
so,if I get a new BPT its about $60,im going to be at $170 ;after three failed smog,resmog,smog sessions.
I couldve got a 'hookup' instapass smog for $200ish.,....but i

[zerodameaon]

Check your EGR, with the car running you can hit the throttle with your hand up under the big round part of the EGR. The diaphragm should move up and down as you hit throttle and let up, if it is moving more then a few mm its working. Also doubt you did this but if you put any flashy vac lines on there they can be dicks and flag that as modified.

[worangejuice]

perhaps the O2 sensor????
I seafoamed and just havent replaced that...........this is tiring, just trying to sell this thing........runs AMAZING........just not for CA emissions....

[worangejuice]

Check your EGR, with the car running you can hit the throttle with your hand up under the big round part of the EGR. The diaphragm should move up and down as you hit throttle and let up, if it is moving more then a few mm its working. Also doubt you did this but if you put any flashy vac lines on there they can be dicks and flag that as modified.

cool, Ill check that,I squeezed the egr and it kills engine, but didnt do the 'reverse' action to feel it pull up. Yeah the stupid 4 RED hoses on their from the old owner, sprayed them black, but all this junk has been on for 10 years......

[mechanicalmoron]

perhaps the O2 sensor????
I seafoamed and just havent replaced that...........this is tiring, just trying to sell this thing........runs AMAZING........just not for CA emissions....

You can test the o2 sensor with the CEL.

Turn the diagnostic screw on the ecu like you would to pop the codes, and start the car (maybe you leave it turned, I forget). It blinks to show that it's either rich or lean, and there's a certain number of times per minute it's supposed to fluctuate for a good sensor, at a certain rpm.

Google it, or it's somewhere in the fsm.

[worangejuice]

You can test the o2 sensor with the CEL.

Turn the diagnostic screw on the ecu like you would to pop the codes, and start the car (maybe you leave it turned, I forget). It blinks to show that it's either rich or lean, and there's a certain number of times per minute it's supposed to fluctuate for a good sensor, at a certain rpm.

Google it, or it's somewhere in the fsm.

I dont have any CEL on......googling.....nothing.....what
NVM found it..........thanks
http://forums.nicoclub.com/1991-1994-240sx-reading-computer-ecu-codes-t253912.html

[worangejuice]

tried to test my O2 sensor last night by using the self check II method, and the red light in the ecu was not on at all and the CEL wasn’t blinking…did multiple tries, rotate,2 sec.,rotate…..
strange

[LovetoSlide]

Seriously smogging it under the table would be so much easier....

[worangejuice]

so i gave it some throttle and the egr doesnt lift, is this cause the egr-bpt is dead?

[milto0n]

You might have to rip the throttle a little bit but to my knowledge it should lift. Check your vacuum hoses to make sure they are corrected. Look at these diagrams and then look at them again. Get really familiar with these pictures, hell bring your computer outside and make sure they are all there and are going where they should be. Remove hoses from underneath the throttle body and blow in them to see whats going where.

If possible, manually apply vacuum to the EGR valve and see if that causes it to lift. If it doesn't then the valve is your problem. However by the sound of your missing components I am willing to bet that these vacuum hoses are not going where they are supposed to.

240sx EGR tutorial : 240SX Technical Forum (http://forums.nicoclub.com/240sx-egr-tutorial-t427162.html)

[milto0n]

Here's a better link. I used this one when I removed my turbo set up to pass smog.

1991-1993 240sx: Vacuum line identifying pictures : 240sx General Discussion (http://forums.nicoclub.com/1991-1993-240sx-vacuum-line-identifying-pictures-t481398.html)

[worangejuice]

You might have to rip the throttle a little bit but to my knowledge it should lift. Check your vacuum hoses to make sure they are corrected. Look at these diagrams and then look at them again. Get really familiar with these pictures, hell bring your computer outside and make sure they are all there and are going where they should be. Remove hoses from underneath the throttle body and blow in them to see whats going where.

If possible, manually apply vacuum to the EGR valve and see if that causes it to lift. If it doesn't then the valve is your problem. However by the sound of your missing components I am willing to bet that these vacuum hoses are not going where they are supposed to.

240sx EGR tutorial : 240SX Technical Forum (http://forums.nicoclub.com/240sx-egr-tutorial-t427162.html)

Thanks man, Im thinking its the BPT at this point,
1. not being hooked up
2. hooked up,nox goes down
3. get a good working one in to work with EGR
4. NOX has gone down each time with seafoaming and maintenance cleaning

dreading another part purchased on BPT valve and no pass..........guh

[lethanh93]

Hi sorry that this is late but I have the same problem, did your solution work for you?

Sent from my Sony Tablet S using Tapatalk

[VertTwins]

You guys crack me up with the cat thing.."its old, its got lots of miles on it. replace it"...lol

I have 2 of these cars 92 and 93, one has 210k and the other has 199k miles on it. both have the original cats and both pass as clean if not a bit cleaner then a lot of the 2005 cars I have smogged. Its about proper maint. Cat convertors have no moving parts, they are just metal. they go bad when a car is poorly maintained either run too lean and over heat the cat till it melts or the car is running super rich and plugs it up with carbon deposits. the later may be able to be cleaned up.

First off dude you needed to address the modified item (tamper) listed on the inspection sheet. Using a lambda calculator at 15mph your are running at 15.5:1 air fuel ratio. This is too lean. looking at your oxygen content sampled in the stream it is not surprising. you very likely have a vacuum leak somewhere. best way to find it is hook a volt meter up to your o2 sensor and use a can of brake clean to spray around the intake area and watch the voltage reading from the o2 sensor. Do it a little bit at a time. when the voltage spikes you hit the leak. fix the leak and whatever the shop noted on your customer copy that was tampered. The egr bpt issue sounds like it is the whole deal. probably the modified vacuum lines are causing all your problems because at 25mph your lambda ratio changes but your nox are still very high. the 25mph numbers indicate simply a egr issue. If you have not resolved this yet focus all your effort and making sure the vacuum lines going to the egr and bpt are absolutely correct.