Enough Ghosn?

[kingkilburn]

Has Carlos Ghosn overstaid as the CEO of Nissan-Renault? It seems to me that as time goes on Nissan has grown to have the same reputation that is generally reserved for French autos. You see the products and are often left scratching your head. Boring weird cars, missing the mark on tried and true markets(sports coupes and hot hatches) while pushing weird niche markets(Juke and convertible Murano), and just a general wtf on the overall line up.


He did great digging Nissan out of the depths of its collapse after over extending in the 90s but I think it is time for Nissan as a whole to move in a different direction and not the direction of being the new boring Toyota.


What do you guys think?


EDIT
Totally meant to put a "?" in the title.

[zerodameaon]

You know my sentiments, it is time for him to go.

[simmode1]

Has Carlos Ghosn overstaid as the CEO of Nissan-Renault? It seems to me that as time goes on Nissan has grown to have the same reputation that is generally reserved for French autos.
What reputation? Everytime Consumer Reports releases it's findings about least/most favorite auto brands, least/most reliable brands or most recognizable brands... Nissan is NEVER on the list. Neither in the top or bottom 10. It's like the brand is in such a mediocre spot that consumers don't even realize it exists to even put it on a list.

[exitspeed]

What reputation? Everytime Consumer Reports releases it's findings about least/most favorite auto brands, least/most reliable brands or most recognizable brands... Nissan is NEVER on the list. Neither in the top or bottom 10. It's like the brand is in such a mediocre spot that consumers don't even realize it exists to even put it on a list.

Yeah, but they make money and have grown to be one of the largest brands in the world.

Does he need to go IMO? I'm just not sure. Remember he isn't designing the cars. I think if anything they need to look internally at their design teams. I mean look what Kia and Hyundai have been able to do in just 5 years or so. They need a Peter Schreyer s a design head if anything. Not get rid of the CEO all together.

[fyneyoungstunna]

they need to revamp ALL of Nissan.
Then new skyline is the size of an SUV
The new Z is rumored to be a fwd sedan (what the fucking shit)
The Altima is becoming the most sold model
and Datsun is back but only for eco cars over seas?

yeah, punch some dicks and get shit back on track. Nissan is getting so mundane and "grocery getter". There are SOOOO many cars in their lineup that could be revamped. Think of a 510 rwd eco model....thats not ballooned up and bloated. Or, a revamp of the old s130 and s30's as a new sports model. Even bringing the gtir over in awd turbo (and non) would be a smart move.
But the crown jewel for me would be bringing back a diesel motor in a rwd whatever. Most likely to please me it would have to be in a revamp of the 510. I mean fuck. Mini/Bmw, Audi, and even Porsche (911) are slating for turbo diesel engines via VolksWagen.

[kingkilburn]

All valid points that all lead me to think that there is a leadership issue. They think there isn't a demand for a small rwd sports coupe or a V8 in a gt car but they want to push a convertible Murano. They don't seem to have a plan or a direction, they are just meandering through the auto world.

As far as their market share I've been seeing numbers like 1 in 10 new cars is made by Nissan-Renault. That is down right prolific. Now how do you have so many cars on the road that give people a feeling of meh?

[simmode1]

As far as their market share I've been seeing numbers like 1 in 10 new cars is made by Nissan-Renault. That is down right prolific. Now how do you have so many cars on the road that give people a feeling of meh?
That's what I been trying to figure out. But I guess it's a safe place to be. they aren't taking any big risks, so no one is really talking about them except enthusiasts (who sit outside of nor consumer consciousness). They are straddling the line and balancing blah cars with their sports line up but haven't effectively promoted the type of corporate/brand identity that masses will remember.

They just play it safe, fly under the radar and get by on the strength of their volume sellers. Not a bad strategy. But some of us enthusiasts wanted to see them take a risk and beat everybody back to the market with am inexpensive 2+2 RWD coupe. But from a business perspective, it makes perfect sense to let Hyundai and Toyota go first out of the gate, watch their mistakes and successes, then develop a safe response to consumer demand.

Minimizing risk and loss. I can't get mad at it, really. It's what I'd do.

[kingkilburn]

So Nissan of today is the new Toyota of the last 15 years?

[mechanicalmoron]

So Nissan of today is the new Toyota of the last 15 years?

Sort of.

The difference is that if modern nissan disappeared, there would be no real change, except that the roads would be prettier. People love their toyotas. Even accross markets in surprising ways. I'd betcha corolla owners love their cars a lot more than altima owners, for instance.

I would miss toyota if they disappeared. They make practical cars that look fine. There's something less soccer-mom-ish about recent and modern toyota, than modern nissan.

[zerodameaon]

So here is what Nissan is missing out on, if the new Mustang gets IRS then it will kind of be what the S16 should have been, RWD IRS 4cyl Turbo at a decent price.

Toyota pretty? The FRS/86 is ugly as sin, worse then even the 370z.

[exitspeed]

they need to revamp ALL of Nissan.
Then new skyline is the size of an SUV

I assume you mean the GTR. G37's/Skyline's aren't big.

The new Z is rumored to be a fwd sedan (what the fucking shit)


I have literally never heard one single source claim that.

:picardfp:

Anyway...

I know I'm not int eh sam situation as most of the people o here anymore, but Nissan makes great vehicles for people like me. Look, I'm not a 21 year old kid anymore. I have 2 kids and another on the way. My Murano is just too small and will not or barely fit a third car seat so I'm looking at 7 seaters. The Pathfinder is bar far the best bang for your buck out there and it looks good (IMO). No it's not a tough ad rugged body on frame SUV, but fuck that I don't need that shit and I live in the Frozen Tundra of WI. Nissan' tech is still cutting edge. The Around the Vehicle Monitor is many media outlets favorite tech on the market right now.

Sure I'm bummed that Nissan continues to ignore the enthusiast but they just don't care. Think about it in their shoes. Would Ghosn build a car that appeals to my love of the 240 that I may (it's a pretty strong may though) or may not buy for $25k, or ake a great CUV that I am GOING to by for $40?

Nissan i in the business of selling cars. We need to get over it.

[kingkilburn]

You guys that happen to not be in the market for a coupe need to stop acting like no one ever buys smaller cars. Compacts are the bread and butter of nontruck auto manufacturers. A small rwd coupe doesn't have to be a niche thing just like fwd compacts didn't have to be in the late 70s and early 80s.

Do you really think Toyota and Subaru would have made the FRS/BRZ if they thought they couldn't move them and turn a profit? Hell no they wouldn't.

[kingkilburn]

There is a whole generation of people out there looking for their 240Z/240SX.

[word sux]

most auto makers don't give a shit about niche markets. Most of the people bitching about nissan bringing back the silvia couldn't afford one even if they did so why should they bother? From a strictly business Ghosn has done a fantastic job with nissan. Ghosn's revival of nissan is considered one of the greatest corporate turnarounds in history.

[Matej]

Getting worked up over new cars is a fruitless waste of time.
Automakers will make whatever they want, and it will either sell or it will not.

[drift freaq]

Sort of.

The difference is that if modern nissan disappeared, there would be no real change, except that the roads would be prettier. People love their toyotas. Even accross markets in surprising ways. I'd betcha corolla owners love their cars a lot more than altima owners, for instance.

I would miss toyota if they disappeared. They make practical cars that look fine. There's something less soccer-mom-ish about recent and modern toyota, than modern nissan.


So if you love Toyota so much what are you doing on a NIssan forum?

Oh ya you love 240sx's right? Just asking.

Dare I say it King does have some valid points after his initial post. While I don't agree that Ghosn is the problem at Nissan. If there is actually a problem. Fact is like others have already stated Ghosns turn around of Nissan was incredible.
Fact is though some of us may think Nissan has ignored the enthusiasts under Ghosns tenure fact is he was responsible for bringing the GTR here. While you may not like it there are a lot of GTR enthusiasts that were and are quite happy about that.
He also managed to resurrect the Z car with the 350 which actually again made the Z enthusiasts happy as they sold quite well.
Sure one could call the 370 a miscue its almost there but not quite. Though its not as bad as some would have us believe.
One could say they have produced some damn fugly cars in the last few years. Yet they manage to sell a shit ton.
Consumer reports? Fuck consumer reports. They ripped the new Q50 a new asshole and the car is pretty damn dope for its product segment. Sebastian Vettel had a hand in the road test engineering of it. Though consumer reports painted it out like a pile of shit . I don't always trust consumer reports, I think they have an agenda to tow.
I would take a JD powers rating over consumer reports any day because JD powers actually polls owners , shops and what not.
I honestly think in light of recent developments its a little early to call crap on Nissan's supposed efforts.
Give it a little more time before calling for the head of the man that actually saved Nissan from all out extinction.

[kingkilburn]

I love the stereotyping here. Because the nay sayers are broke bitches not in the market for a new car no one can be.

This thread wasn't even supposed to be about a new coupe but whatever. This place has severe tunnel vision.

[mechanicalmoron]

So if you love Toyota so much what are you doing on a NIssan forum?

Oh ya you love 240sx's right? Just asking.

Dare I say it King does have some valid points after his initial post. While I don't agree that Ghosn is the problem at Nissan. If there is actually a problem. Fact is like others have already stated Ghosns turn around of Nissan was incredible.
Fact is though some of us may think Nissan has ignored the enthusiasts under Ghosns tenure fact is he was responsible for bringing the GTR here. While you may not like it there are a lot of GTR enthusiasts that were and are quite happy about that.
He also managed to resurrect the Z car with the 350 which actually again made the Z enthusiasts happy as they sold quite well.
Sure one could call the 370 a miscue its almost there but not quite. Though its not as bad as some would have us believe.
One could say they have produced some damn fugly cars in the last few years. Yet they manage to sell a shit ton.
Consumer reports? Fuck consumer reports. They ripped the new Q50 a new asshole and the car is pretty damn dope for its product segment. Sebastian Vettel had a hand in the road test engineering of it. Though consumer reports painted it out like a pile of shit . I don't always trust consumer reports, I think they have an agenda to tow.
I would take a JD powers rating over consumer reports any day because JD powers actually polls owners , shops and what not.
I honestly think in light of recent developments its a little early to call crap on Nissan's supposed efforts.
Give it a little more time before calling for the head of the man that actually saved Nissan from all out extinction.

My being here is pretty irellivent to nissan, they've had the money for my car for over 20 years.

And regardless, I'm NOT about to buy a new anything. So what I own is irellivent to this whole thing.

I do like 90's toyotas, too. I think most cars after the turn of this century got really ugly, but toyota beats nissan. I think most 90's japanese cars where really nicely designed, nicely build, and generally spot on what they should be.

I'm just making an observation about how people approach nissans nowadays. I'd admit it doesn't apply to the Z or GTR, but those are cars to be shown off, regardless of sales. Like sure, there's enthusiasts who are excited about a 100k car.... but most of them are sure as hell not buying one. The GTR means nothing to me because it's so distant, price-wise, that I doubt I'll ever even sit in one. Even if I had the money it's beyond frivolous.

[kingkilburn]

That is what a halo car is. You see the full potential of a brand in performance and styling. Even if you wont ever be able to afford it it lends to conclusions about the people making it.

The fact that Nissan can put out a car that out performs cars that cost twice as much while still being a comfortable car to drive/own AND it turns a profit says a ton about what they can do. Toyota tried their hand at it and although it is an amazing car they can't even make their money back on it.


If Nissan can squeeze that performance out of that car imagine what they could do if they didn't have to compete with Renault for motorsports space. An awd turbo Sentra designed from the ground up to be a rally monster. A fullsize sedan that could go toe to toe with anything in DTM. A Z car that absolutely ROCKS the mid price sport coupe category.

And perhaps even an entry level coupe that isn't a bad of blah and compromise that still turns a profit.

[drift freaq]

That is what a halo car is. You see the full potential of a brand in performance and styling. Even if you wont ever be able to afford it it lends to conclusions about the people making it.

The fact that Nissan can put out a car that out performs cars that cost twice as much while still being a comfortable car to drive/own AND it turns a profit says a ton about what they can do. Toyota tried their hand at it and although it is an amazing car they can't even make their money back on it.


If Nissan can squeeze that performance out of that car imagine what they could do if they didn't have to compete with Renault for motorsports space. An awd turbo Sentra designed from the ground up to be a rally monster. A fullsize sedan that could go toe to toe with anything in DTM. A Z car that absolutely ROCKS the mid price sport coupe category.

And perhaps even an entry level coupe that isn't a bad of blah and compromise that still turns a profit.

Again excellent points, I myself have wondered if Nissan might have more of a presence in F1 if it were not for Renault. Fact is it was great to see the amount of presence their engines pulled off at last years Le Mans as well as the Delta wing car even though it was weird. It was also cool when they were supplying engines for Indycar though they are no longer doing that.

[kingkilburn]

Considering that the VH was designed specifically for formula style racing and they spent all that money on the R390 I'd say Nissan has at least a passing interest in serious racing.

[Matej]

Considering that the VH was designed specifically for formula style racing and they spent all that money on the R390 I'd say Nissan has at least a passing interest in serious racing.
Supposedly they dumped an equivalent of 20+ million dollars just into the development of the BTCC SR engines, which is about as 'niche' of a racing series as it gets. :)

[drift freaq]

Considering that the VH was designed specifically for formula style racing and they spent all that money on the R390 I'd say Nissan has at least a passing interest in serious racing.

Nissan indeed always had a pretty good interest in motorsports competition. Though I think Nissan NA kinda fell out of the factory backed stuff starting in the early 90's. Outside of the SCORE off road trucks they really did not support factory backed sports car efforts after that. I think if they do bring out new cars it would be quite wise for them to get them into motorsports with factory backed efforts. It did wonders for the company here in the 70's and 80's.

Outside of the U.S. has always seemed to be a different story. BTCC, GT racing etc... It seems Nissan Japan and Nissan UK are much more in touch with the fact that Motorsports is still important.
In fact I could go as far as making this observation relating to your original post. The problem does not lie in Ghosn the problem does and always has been with Nissan NA since the early 90's. The stateside branch of the company has grown quite timid in this department and thereby pushing a non sports car agenda.
A lot of the design cues ridiculed actually came out of the San Diego based design department.
Perhaps we will see a much more relevant to Z car heritage Z car design because its supposedly coming from Japan this time. As far as the IDX goes I am not sure if that was Japan or San Diego.

[redline racer510]

most auto makers don't give a shit about niche markets. Most of the people bitching about nissan bringing back the silvia couldn't afford one even if they did so why should they bother? From a strictly business Ghosn has done a fantastic job with nissan. Ghosn's revival of nissan is considered one of the greatest corporate turnarounds in history.
Couldn't have said it better myself .

[exitspeed]

You guys that happen to not be in the market for a coupe need to stop acting like no one ever buys smaller cars. Compacts are the bread and butter of nontruck auto manufacturers. A small rwd coupe doesn't have to be a niche thing just like fwd compacts didn't have to be in the late 70s and early 80s.

Do you really think Toyota and Subaru would have made the FRS/BRZ if they thought they couldn't move them and turn a profit? Hell no they wouldn't.

You know how much I want them to build cars for us. I just GET what Ghosn isn't all over it. That's all I'm saying.

And like I said if they do make the car we've all been asking for I'd really like to get one. I'm finally at a place where I can afford things like this.

The fact of the matter is the people who "love" 240's right now are still a far younger demographic. Again Nissan/Ghosn would rather concentrate on selling a shitload of $40k vehicles that they are going to sell a shit ton of then a $25k vehicle that they won't sell many just to help their image.

As much as I hate that, it's the reality. :hey:

[SimpleS14]

I have no issues with Ghosn. He's doing what he can right now to keep both companies afloat. I'd like to see them be more competitive in the market, but I just don't see them taking the additional risks.

Remember he isn't designing the cars.

He's not designing them, but I'm sure he does provide some approval on key products. Especially if he's on the stage having the present the product.

The new Z is rumored to be a fwd sedan (what the fucking shit)

This is the first time I'm hearing this. Where did this rumor originate from?

But the crown jewel for me would be bringing back a diesel motor in a rwd whatever. Most likely to please me it would have to be in a revamp of the 510. I mean fuck. Mini/Bmw, Audi, and even Porsche (911) are slating for turbo diesel engines via VolksWagen.

For now they are saving that for Infiniti through the partnership with Mercedes.

[fyneyoungstunna]

For people asking me about the "Z" comment:
I first read it on here in a thread.
But look up nissan "mini-z" concept

@simples14: I would not be mad at nissan infiniti for going to Mercedes for a diesel. I would however be mad if they marketed it as infiniti. That just has underpowered junk written all over it. Ok, or heavy gt sedan ...wich could be admittedly fun.

[kingkilburn]

On November 5, when the Tokyo market opened after a long weekend, Nissan’s stock plunged 10% before recovering slightly. On New York’s OTC, the Nissan ADR closed on November 1 at $18.45, down from an October 31 close of $20.07. The slide continued to a November 5 close of $17.62. The ADR 52 week lo/hi is 17.15-24.15. As I write, the price is $18.51.

Is Nissan Losing Its Soul Under Carlos Ghosn? - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/stephenharner/2013/11/18/is-nissan-losing-its-soul-under-carlos-ghosn/)

[simmode1]

But how far can global Japanese companies go–or be taken–before they lose the Japaneseness that made them great? We may find out.
This. This right here.

This is way Nissan needs the IDX and not any of those S16 concepts that have been flying around for the past 7 years.

[kingkilburn]

And nothing says Japanese car more than entry-mid level rwd sports coupes and teeny tiny FWD sporty hatches.

Nissan need a spriritual Sentra SE-R and 240Z/S-Chassis revival.

[Gnnr]

:(

So many statements hit right on the mark in this thread.

From my US perspective, Nissan has lost its passion. Its soul and character.

You don't have to make sports cars, be into racing and make enthusiast vehicles to have soul and passion. It's not a brand that makes fun vehicles or has fun.

Nissan no longer has a strong presence or identity as it used to. If the identity is trying to take on is that of the other Japanese makers it's not even close. Frankly, reliability seems to be shit compared to the other big 2 in Japan.

I'm in the market for a new car and I'm not even stepping foot in a Nissan dealership, even Infiniti seems to have an overinflated perception of itself with the ridiculous prices they're asking (more than Lexus, Mercedes and BMW in some cases) so they can GTFO.

[BossHogg]

Dare I say it King does have some valid points after his initial post. While I don't agree that Ghosn is the problem at Nissan. If there is actually a problem. Fact is like others have already stated Ghosns turn around of Nissan was incredible.
Fact is though some of us may think Nissan has ignored the enthusiasts under Ghosns tenure fact is he was responsible for bringing the GTR here. While you may not like it there are a lot of GTR enthusiasts that were and are quite happy about that.
He also managed to resurrect the Z car with the 350 which actually again made the Z enthusiasts happy as they sold quite well.
Sure one could call the 370 a miscue its almost there but not quite. Though its not as bad as some would have us believe.
One could say they have produced some damn fugly cars in the last few years. Yet they manage to sell a shit ton.
Consumer reports? Fuck consumer reports. They ripped the new Q50 a new asshole and the car is pretty damn dope for its product segment. Sebastian Vettel had a hand in the road test engineering of it. Though consumer reports painted it out like a pile of shit . I don't always trust consumer reports, I think they have an agenda to tow.
I would take a JD powers rating over consumer reports any day because JD powers actually polls owners , shops and what not.
I honestly think in light of recent developments its a little early to call crap on Nissan's supposed efforts.
Give it a little more time before calling for the head of the man that actually saved Nissan from all out extinction.

Agree, I like all of those cars. They may be bigger and heavier than what we want, but I think they are all pleasing aesthetically and setup wise. But I am talking in a aftermarket kind of way to. As if I bought any of those cars, modifications would for sure be in mind. Less so cosmetically on the GTR, more so with 350/370. I like the q50 to. I remember the first time I saw one I was like damn that thing looks good. Didn't even know what it was till I read the badge. What made it even cooler was a white haired 60-70 year old woman got out of it. Grandma with style, you know she picks up the men at bingo night.


I do like 90's toyotas, too. I think most cars after the turn of this century got really ugly, but toyota beats nissan. I think most 90's japanese cars where really nicely designed, nicely build, and generally spot on what they should be.

I'm just making an observation about how people approach nissans nowadays. I'd admit it doesn't apply to the Z or GTR, but those are cars to be shown off, regardless of sales. Like sure, there's enthusiasts who are excited about a 100k car.... but most of them are sure as hell not buying one. The GTR means nothing to me because it's so distant, price-wise, that I doubt I'll ever even sit in one. Even if I had the money it's beyond frivolous.

Agree totally. The 90's are just great. But I also wonder if some of us in the mid-late 20's and 30's are partial to these cars because that is what we kind of grew up to wanting and seeing high end tuners build on etc. If I won the lottery I would still love a r32 gtr, 22b impreza, sw20 mr2 and FD rx-7. The only car I do not care for would be the supra. I just think it is one ugly car. Like a catfish with a spoiler on the back. Nothing against the car, just not my personal taste.


Nissan indeed always had a pretty good interest in motorsports competition. Though I think Nissan NA kinda fell out of the factory backed stuff starting in the early 90's. Outside of the SCORE off road trucks they really did not support factory backed sports car efforts after that. I think if they do bring out new cars it would be quite wise for them to get them into motorsports with factory backed efforts. It did wonders for the company here in the 70's and 80's.

Outside of the U.S. has always seemed to be a different story. BTCC, GT racing etc... It seems Nissan Japan and Nissan UK are much more in touch with the fact that Motorsports is still important.
In fact I could go as far as making this observation relating to your original post. The problem does not lie in Ghosn the problem does and always has been with Nissan NA since the early 90's. The stateside branch of the company has grown quite timid in this department and thereby pushing a non sports car agenda.
A lot of the design cues ridiculed actually came out of the San Diego based design department.
Perhaps we will see a much more relevant to Z car heritage Z car design because its supposedly coming from Japan this time. As far as the IDX goes I am not sure if that was Japan or San Diego.

Agree. I also wonder if that has something to do with our country being so vast and big. The demographic is just spread way the hell out. We cant just build a few tracks and everyone be able to travel to them. We have to break it down regionally and there has to be tracks in each area. Which is just more money etc.

And nothing says Japanese car more than entry-mid level rwd sports coupes and teeny tiny FWD sporty hatches.

Nissan need a spriritual Sentra SE-R and 240Z/S-Chassis revival.

I like that new nismo sentra concept thing. Probably the first fwd car that got my attention in a sporty way. Looked good.

[kingkilburn]

When it comes to motorsports in America everyone seems to leave the big money to Nascar even though there isn't much of a car buying grassroots for it.

[atom]

This. This right here.

This is way Nissan needs the IDX and not any of those S16 concepts that have been flying around for the past 7 years.

I guess the irony is the IDX was designed in Europe and it's lead designer was a Brit, so the IDX is not really Japanese at all. It's a European interpretation of what Japanese cars used to be, not necessarily what they are at present. So if Nissan's future hinges on it keeping it's "Japanese-ness" (whatever that term even means), the IDX is probably not that car.


From my US perspective, Nissan has lost its passion. Its soul and character.

You don't have to make sports cars, be into racing and make enthusiast vehicles to have soul and passion. It's not a brand that makes fun vehicles or has fun.

Nissan no longer has a strong presence or identity as it used to.

Nissan hasn't had a unique identity since they were on the brink of failure. And I don't think they really care. It's not exactly like strong brand identity is helping Mazda any. Nissan sold 24k Altima's in November alone. That was more than Mazda's entire product line in the same period.

[Gnnr]

Nissan hasn't had a unique identity since they were on the brink of failure. And I don't think they really care. It's not exactly like strong brand identity is helping Mazda any. Nissan sold 24k Altima's in November alone. That was more than Mazda's entire product line in the same period.

Mazda reinvented itself as a fun brand when they started with the zoom-zoom marketing way back when. The Miata is still a fun roadster to drive. The identity they push is one of fun driver's cars and to me it sticks.

R_tjM8eEqUo

My perception of Mazda is better than that of Nissan's.

[kingkilburn]

Where the designer was born or lives is of little relevance. The style of the design is what is important and the IDx clearly draws heavily from the 60s-70s Nissan designs.

[exitspeed]

Mazda reinvented itself as a fun brand when they started with the zoom-zoom marketing way back when. The Miata is still a fun roadster to drive. The identity they push is one of fun driver's cars and to me it sticks.

R_tjM8eEqUo

My perception of Mazda is better than that of Nissan's.

Mazda also has a fraction of models that Nissan has AND Mazda has been in pretty rough shape financially. Their joint venture with Ford is over and that really hurts them. Also, are you going out and buying $30,000-$40,000 brand new Mazda's? Not a lot of people are. Hell the 6 sells pretty poorly compared to it's competitors. The Optima and Sonota sell far more. The mid size sedan is what keeps companies afloat and as nice and sporty as the 6 appears to be it's not convincing enough buyers.

Compare this to Nissans current state and there's no comparison. The Altima is one of the top selling cars in the US. I could be wrong but I think it's going to beat the Accord this year and did beat it last year. Plus Nissan still has REAL sports cars in their portfolio; GTR, Z, G\Skyline. Mazda had one, that is a shadow of it's former self currently.

[simmode1]

Plus Nissan still has REAL sports cars in their portfolio; GTR, Z, G\Skyline. Mazda had one, that is a shadow of it's former self currently.
R.I.P. RX8... never really lived up to it's pedigree.

They still got the Miata though:hide:

But I think the FRZ is ensuring that it's days are numbered.

[Corbic]

I guess the irony is the IDX was designed in Europe and it's lead designer was a Brit, so the IDX is not really Japanese at all. It's a European interpretation of what Japanese cars used to be, not necessarily what they are at present. So if Nissan's future hinges on it keeping it's "Japanese-ness" (whatever that term even means), the IDX is probably not that car.


That would explain why it looks like a MKII Escort.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Escort_Mk2_Rally.jpg


http://www.speedhunters.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/IMG_9326-Edit_1w2g_1.jpg

http://images.caricos.com/n/nissan/2013_nissan_idx/images/1024x768/2013_nissan_idx_4_1024x768.jpg

[Corbic]

Mazda reinvented itself as a fun brand when they started with the zoom-zoom marketing way back when. The Miata is still a fun roadster to drive. The identity they push is one of fun driver's cars and to me it sticks.

R_tjM8eEqUo

My perception of Mazda is better than that of Nissan's.


If I'm starting with the best street cars to make the race cars, I am not starting with a Mazda.

Their product line today sucks. Of their pedestrian cars, all the Ford counterparts are better. Of their performance cars... all they have is the Miata.

[mechanicalmoron]

*edit* Double post.

[mechanicalmoron]

I guess the irony is the IDX was designed in Europe and it's lead designer was a Brit, so the IDX is not really Japanese at all. It's a European interpretation of what Japanese cars used to be, not necessarily what they are at present. So if Nissan's future hinges on it keeping it's "Japanese-ness" (whatever that term even means), the IDX is probably not that car.



Nissan hasn't had a unique identity since they were on the brink of failure. And I don't think they really care. It's not exactly like strong brand identity is helping Mazda any. Nissan sold 24k Altima's in November alone. That was more than Mazda's entire product line in the same period.

Strong brand identity is what keeps you going in hard times. Nissan is selling cars to people who have more passion (understandably so) for their toasters. Maybe you can make a good toaster, but if people don't also love it, you're going to go under when someone makes a better toaster for a better price.

Nissan probably only survived because of their brand identity. Too bad they'll shit on it so eagerly. But companies don't see any further than the next quarter, and don't see any justification or quantification other than money. Some more than others, but nissan seems to be at the front of that pack.

This stuff about having people love your product and having some stability and reason to your model lines may matter more to small companies that sell smaller volumes of more cult-ish cars like mazda or subaru, but I don't think nissan could currently survive if their sales took a hit to the point that they where that size... because people don't love them. If they don't have volume, what do they have? Everyone bought an altima because it was a good generic car at the time, not because altima is such a beloved car.

Nissan KILLED the beloved high-value line, datsun, and introduced a douchey overpriced marquee instead, effectively the opposite of datsun. And then things fell apart.

[Corbic]

^ I thinks u retarded an not knoe da fuck uza sayan.

[kingkilburn]

That would explain why it looks like a MKII Escort.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vLosIb1Upco/S850GUxJTmI/AAAAAAAAASo/K6PRk5UT0J8/s1600/sstp_1003_04_o%2B1971_nissan_skyline%2Bfront.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GG4gMiIVTuk/UctzJ8uhWaI/AAAAAAAAZ_E/Hx2mBv4xn0I/s1600/1024px-1965_Nissan_Silvia_01.jpg


Or perhaps it looks like Nissan designs that predate that care by a decade.
^ I thinks u retarded an not knoe da fuck uza sayan.

Do we really have to keep dealing with shit like this? :ugh:

[Gnnr]

Mazda also has a fraction of models that Nissan has AND Mazda has been in pretty rough shape financially. Their joint venture with Ford is over and that really hurts them. Also, are you going out and buying $30,000-$40,000 brand new Mazda's? Not a lot of people are. Hell the 6 sells pretty poorly compared to it's competitors. The Optima and Sonota sell far more. The mid size sedan is what keeps companies afloat and as nice and sporty as the 6 appears to be it's not convincing enough buyers.

Compare this to Nissans current state and there's no comparison. The Altima is one of the top selling cars in the US. I could be wrong but I think it's going to beat the Accord this year and did beat it last year. Plus Nissan still has REAL sports cars in their portfolio; GTR, Z, G\Skyline. Mazda had one, that is a shadow of it's former self currently.

What I am arguing here is not who is more successful, my point is to that of who has an identity that is tangible. Nissan NO LONGER has that identity it used to. If they are trying to go against the likes of Honda and Toyota for the the reliable daily driver identity they are failing miserably. Go see any independent rankings such as JD Power, Car and Driver's rankings, etc.

I love Nissan, there's still 2 sitting in my driveway, but even as an enthusiast I'm gonna call it like I see it and I'm not going to defend their failures. All those sports cars you mentioned are decent efforts, but fall short of what the enthusiast really want. As was mentioned earlier, Nissan is stuck in mediocrity. Toyota is the new Nissan. Top Halo car in the LFA, Luxury vehicles on point, superb grocery getters and lightweight rwd sports car.

[Corbic]

Or perhaps it looks like Nissan designs that predate that care by a decade.


Looks more like a MKII, which is the stuff of legends, than a 510. No body gives a fuck about the 610.

Also, all 1970's Japanese designs are nothing more than 2/3 rip-offs of American and European cars.



Do we really have to keep dealing with shit like this? :ugh:

Because he is living up to his screen name? Are you seriously supporting this idiocy?


Nissan KILLED the beloved high-value line, datsun, and introduced a douchey overpriced marquee instead, effectively the opposite of datsun. And then things fell apart.

[kingkilburn]

Show me the cars the 510, KC10 Skyline, and 1st gen Silvia ripoff.

[Corbic]

Show me the cars the 510, KC10 Skyline, and 1st gen Silvia ripoff.

Go do you own research. Maybe that way we can have an intelligent conversation.

[kingkilburn]

You made the claim. You back it up or get out of here with that.

[simmode1]

Yet a-fucking-gain... Nissan fails to even exist in terms of brand perception. Doesn't have a good image. Doesn't have a bad image. Just doesn't exist and may as well be ignored by most consumers. Ghosn... WTF are you doing?!

The newest Consumer Report on brand perception:
Yahoo! (http://autos.yahoo.com/news/toyota-tops-consumers-reports--2014-car-brand-perception-survey-021905033.html)

[EchoOfSilence]

I think Carlos Ghosn is doing a solid job overall with lots of improvement. I'm a fan especially since he put the initiative to bring back the GTR. Like with most turn-arounds, it always takes time.

He's also doing something right by leading the charge with the IDx. Nissan & Motor Trend personally invited me to MTHQ to see the IDx pair first hand & let me tell you -- it was AWESOME.

IDx @ MTHQ (http://idxclub.co/t/be-the-first-to-ride-in-an-idx-at-motor-trend-headquarters-in-el-segundo/47/6)

[drift freaq]

Yet a-fucking-gain... Nissan fails to even exist in terms of brand perception. Doesn't have a good image. Doesn't have a bad image. Just doesn't exist and may as well be ignored by most consumers. Ghosn... WTF are you doing?!

The newest Consumer Report on brand perception:
Yahoo! (http://autos.yahoo.com/news/toyota-tops-consumers-reports--2014-car-brand-perception-survey-021905033.html)


Once again Consumer Reports fails. LOL read that story line they did a phone survey of 1500 people and are trying to extrapolate it out to cover a country the size of the U.S.? What complete and utter bullshit. You could have done that survey here IN LA and it would have skewed differently. Stop listening to what has become a hack rag and not the best for gauging anything anymore. lol

[Corbic]

Once again Consumer Reports fails. LOL read that story line they did a phone survey of 1500 people and are trying to extrapolate it out to cover a country the size of the U.S.? What complete and utter bullshit. You could have done that survey here IN LA and it would have skewed differently. Stop listening to what has become a hack rag and not the best for gauging anything anymore. lol

You should see how election polls work. They ask a few thousand people and are able to get a 95% confidence rate on what the other 200 million voted.

[drift freaq]

You should see how election polls work. They ask a few thousand people and are able to get a 95% confidence rate on what the other 200 million voted.
Ya that's why I always take election polls with a grain of salt. Interesting to look it but don't read everything into one single poll. The only way election polls get relevant is when they start doing them on district levels and with certain states at state level. Then you start putting those statistics together. Though any poll that claims 1500 phone calls covers a reasonable cross section of the average U.S. car buyer is smoking something damn good.

[jamanrr]

I bought my iGT 6 over an Altima and own a Miata, I am in the camp of Mazda making exciting cars in boring segments. I like my Bose radios, I like my leather seats and convertibles. To me Mazda and Subaru both do a better job than nissan or Toyota. Is that the case for everyone probably not but I buy what I like not what other buy and like . Always have always will.

[Gnnr]

Yet a-fucking-gain... Nissan fails to even exist in terms of brand perception. Doesn't have a good image. Doesn't have a bad image. Just doesn't exist and may as well be ignored by most consumers. Ghosn... WTF are you doing?!

The newest Consumer Report on brand perception:
Yahoo! (http://autos.yahoo.com/news/toyota-tops-consumers-reports--2014-car-brand-perception-survey-021905033.html)

Wait one fucking minute here! Land Rover, Maserati, Jaguar and Rolls-Royce have a bad overall brand perception!? This survey must have been done in the the middle of nowhere America

[SimpleS14]

Wait one fucking minute here! Land Rover, Maserati, Jaguar and Rolls-Royce have a bad overall brand perception!? This survey must have been done in the the middle of nowhere America


The people voting on the polls are just straight up haters of the brands. They probably think the owners reek of smug and arrogance.

[kingkilburn]

Bump for relevance.

[Bspilner]

Heard that the new CEO is just as bad and heartless like Ghosn, so sadly I doubt we'll see anychange in Nissan's philosophy and direction.

[exitspeed]

Yeah that sucks.

[LarsG35]

Just to clarify here, but is the general desire that Nissan (specifically) reintroduces cars that hearken back to old designs and spirits? Or just that any car manufacturer will do it?

It's unfortunate, but most people just want to "ride" their cars (drive, but not be engaged in the experience at all). They want comfort, cheap, reliable, and not looks. But surely there is enough of a market driven by enthusiasts like us to make an "exciting" car successful.

I've theorized that a boutique car manufacturer could arise by selling limited production runs of a series of cars looking similar to those with niche followings. Although if enthusiasts only ever wanted the specific brand name in the first place, it would fail.

If a venture capitalist asked Nissan for blueprints to the 240z, 510, etc and offered 5% of all profits made while risking no liability for production, what would Nissan have to lose? Reputation? (Use a very different naming scheme?) Brand dilution? (Doubt it...) For extremely old designs do you even need permission as long as trademarks are avoided? As far as I'm aware the engine/design patents should only last 20 years.

Just me thinking out loud,
Lars

[silverarrow27]

^^^Like the DeLorean or the Ford Cobra replicas...I think you're going somewhere with this. But then, we're all too JDM on here. Who here owns replicas of anything?

[Green Arrow]

The end of the pathetic line ups and lack of enthusiast development may soon come to an end! He has been caught under reporting his income and using Nissan for his personal gain!

May we soon see a larger fr chassis development!?

[URL=https://www.foxnews.com/auto/nissan-chairman-carlos-ghosn-removed-over-significant-misconduct [/URL]

[[240sx]]

May we soon see a larger fr chassis development!?
... and their return to near bankruptcy? I'm surprised the Z car is still around.

[jdm_land]

I wonder if bringing the S15 line back and making them in the USA would make a difference.
The s15 could be Nissan’s answer to new cars like the Toyota BRZ and the Foucs RS. Stop the Z line and start up the S line.

[gbaby2089]

Yeah I'm sure introducing a car on a wholly new platform to compete with a sales failure is on every business's to do list.

[Green Arrow]

With all the cars available (mustang, camaro, brz/86, z, stinger) why are they all not bankrupt...regurgitating the arguement made on the future coupe thread from 8years ago doesnt hold water today

[RalliartRsX]

With all the cars available (mustang, camaro, brz/86, z, stinger) why are they all not bankrupt...regurgitating the arguement made on the future coupe thread from 8years ago doesnt hold water today

.......You mean like they weren't bankrupt 10+ years ago before we bailed them out??

You have a very short memory....

Anyways, the reason Ford, Chevy, etc can produce hopped up pony cars, is because they sell an immense amount of trunks and people movers to cover the difference.

None of those cars would be around if it wasn't for the Cruze, the Avalanche or the F150. So please keep that in mind.

Nissan was on the verge of financial collapse and Ghosn managed to pull them away from the edge with mundane cars that sell (remember, he also oversaw Renault). Like it or not, THAT is what makes money. Silvias, GTRs, etc are NOT money makers, believe it or not.

I hate cars like the drop top Muran, etc. But other shit like the G and Q line sell. That is what allows the GTR, the GT500 and the ZR1.

[jdm_land]

Silvias, GTRs, etc are NOT money makers, believe it or not.




True that.

There were only 67,211 R34s produced world wide. R33 = 180,766 and
R32 = 313,491

American auto manufacturers like Ford and Chevy do get most of there sales from trucks and vans.

[jdm_land]

These company’s like Ford and Chevy also get juicy contracts for government vehicles. Nissan in USA is not supplying all of North Carolina’s police cars.

[RalliartRsX]

^^ Yep and yep.

Now, am I fan of Ghosn?? In all honesty, I do not know him from a hole in the ground. He did what he had to pull Nissan from the brink of collapse. Now, Nissan can shift it's focus to producing something sporty considering they are somewhat stable. The 370Z is a solid platform and the 350Z is now the new drift slut (but no one wants to appreciate it.......). The TT V6 from the Q50 can make 400WHP with (literally) bolt ons. GTRs are now making 2500+ HP. Stock location GTRs' are deep into the 9s and I think 8s.

Are they producing soul less cars like the Nismo Sentra (WTF!?!?!) or drop top Muranos (a face only a......well no one likes that abomination)?? Yes. Is it needed to support GTR, 370Z and hopefully new upcoming platforms?? Yep and I will take shitty soul less cars if I get the chance to drive a GT500R Mustang for instance.

I need to look more into the story to see how I feel about the guy. It seems they asked him to leave prior to this announcement. So we will see....

People just love to swing on the "WTF!?! Dem bitches any producing GTRs, or Silvia!"" When in essence, they all got killed off way before the 08 recession as they were not money makers....or before some of these kids were born. Also, if you have to blame anyone, blame having to deal with NHTSA crash safety and emissions standards that most of those vehicles could never meet. Its 6 or one, half dozen of the other.

[kingkilburn]

Thread from the fucking dead because I WAS MOTHER FUCKING RIGHT.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/11/19/business/carlos-ghosn-nissan-renault/index.html

[crzsteveo]

But should i buy some stock now or no? Thats the good question.

[gbaby2089]

With all the cars available (mustang, camaro, brz/86, z, stinger) why are they all not bankrupt...regurgitating the arguement made on the future coupe thread from 8years ago doesnt hold water today

The Z is a thousand years old in automotive terms.
The 86 is getting old with no update in sight.
The Stinger is not going to be a game changer for Kia and even then it is there to 'elevate' the brand, it is not a 25k sports car, its a 'premium' car.
Mustang/Camaro are similar to the Wrangler in appealing to folks who don't care about cars but think people will find their dime a dozen cars neat.

[TheRealSy90]

Why won't people just accept the ecoboost mustang is the modern day silvia. It literally drives and performs like a lightly modified 240.

[[240sx]]

Why won't people understand that a neutered pony car is NOT the same as a Japanese sports coupe. Even if it drives and performs like a lightly modified 240.
Fixed. I'd take a gt350 tho. :2f2f:

[RalliartRsX]

Why won't people just accept the ecoboost mustang is the modern day silvia. It literally drives and performs like a lightly modified 240.

.....and sounds just as shitty lol. Those Mazda speed engines sound like a hard turd rolling around a cement mixer.....

[dizzariot]

In my own humnle opinion, all of the cars in the Nissan lineup that aren't vans (in Japan) are 'soulless and boring' and that's why they don't make a killing. At least Toyota has nice Corollas to fill the 'boring car' quota. Nissan's cars are all weird, unattractive, and in dire need of a style overhaul. They need a new automotive designer.

[Green Arrow]

F the mustang bandwagon, its a ford.
Big companys making cool cars and theyre all successful in it, no company makes each car with the idea of selling millions and millions. So the arguement that they wont sell is bs, as even the pontiac aztec sold to certain people.

I dont care if another s-chassis is ever made, not my arguement.
Bankruptcy is a mass talking point for any car company. One car out of a 10-15 car line up wont bankrupt a big company.

I agree with dizzariot

[RalliartRsX]

F the mustang bandwagon, its a ford.
Big companys making cool cars and theyre all successful in it, no company makes each car with the idea of selling millions and millions. So the arguement that they wont sell is bs, as even the pontiac aztec sold to certain people.




And that right there is utter ignorance on how real life works lol.

If you think car companies are not in it to sell millions and make $$$$, then I have a bridge to sell you........

If you're argument were true, cars like the Honda Accord or the Corolla wouldn't exist lol..

But let's get back to Ghosn hate hahahahah!

[BOROSUN]

get that fucker outta here.

[dizzariot]

And that right there is utter ignorance on how real life works lol.

If you think car companies are not in it to sell millions and make $$$$, then I have a bridge to sell you........

If you're argument were true, cars like the Honda Accord or the Corolla wouldn't exist lol..

But let's get back to Ghosn hate hahahahah!

I think you guys represent two far ends of the specturm.

He's over here thinking that they make cars out of a passion for motorsport and you're saying it's solely for money.

I think it's in the middle. The ZN6 (I know, talking about it again) is the perfect example: low entry cost, aimed at a younger generation (hopefully to sell in large numbers), and an embodiment of the chassis it borrows its name from. Good mix of passion and profit if you ask me.

You're either an unconditional nerd for the platform you like or you're a fair-weather nerd. The former would settle for a new S-Car that's akin to the ZN6. The latter would only settle for a turbocharged sports car.

It's kind of like the new Civic TypeR: totally cool and has the numbers to back it up...but it's fuck-ugly and turbo. Kind of missing the point for the TypeR pedigree, amirite?

/coffee&whiskeyrant

[Green Arrow]

No they intend to make money, but they make cars that will sell medium numbers and they make cars that will sell millions (impala/crownvic=millions) (prius=hundredsofthousands).

If you think they thought theyd sell millions off of new chassis development vehicles everytime they go out on a limb youre the one with “ignorance”. You choose to see my arguement how you want to see if and shine a light on the highlight you want to see. And then imply im ignorant. You work for cnn?

Anyways, things WILL change with Ghosn gone. Hes no savior either. Has he held back the compmay? No. Has he inproved the company? No....

The lineup has been the same for over 10 years. Altimas/maximas making the rental world go round. Titans dissappointing truck owners looking for a good gas power hauler, Gtrs making fanboys say they are not GTRS. And the z34 helping sell monster energy drinks and tapout shirts.

No one cares about nissan anymore.

[gbaby2089]

F the mustang bandwagon, its a ford.
Big companys making cool cars and theyre all successful in it, no company makes each car with the idea of selling millions and millions. So the arguement that they wont sell is bs, as even the pontiac aztec sold to certain people.

I dont care if another s-chassis is ever made, not my arguement.
Bankruptcy is a mass talking point for any car company. One car out of a 10-15 car line up wont bankrupt a big company.

I agree with dizzariot

Considering Ford is killing every single "car" that isn't the Mustang, yeah........good point.

[TheRealSy90]

I don't understand some people..
"We want a new cheap turbo i4 coupe!"
"fuck the ecoboost mustang cause issa ferd!"
You probably haven't driven or drifted one, they're great.


Hell the 240sx/Silvia in stock form is a pos too so...

[jumpman2334]

not sure if this has been posted here, but it was an interesting read:

https://jalopnik.com/was-carlos-ghosn-whacked-1830569053

[RalliartRsX]

He's over here thinking that they make cars out of a passion for motorsport and you're saying it's solely for money.



That is not what I am saying at all. I am saying; you want those cool cars, you best be able to convince those bean counters it would either be a hit, or be a very limited run. Nissan was on the verge of bankruptcy several years ago, and I am sure, considering Japanese culture, they would sure as hell NOT want to return to the brink. They had to sell their soles to be sold to Renault.

The fact that Ghosn grew the company from being essentially smaller than Renault to being 60% larger than Renault in a little over 10 years says something and to rebuke him because he isn't producing a car without "passion" is basically taking the whole cool car thing out of context. Porsche, Ferrari, etc do not apply. They make for a very very niche market. Nissan and co are in it to mass produce. Passion cars are just a by product of making the bean counters happy. Simple.

The fact that they produce soul less, ugly cars are just the ends to a means to get them back to a functioning brand.

[dizzariot]

...and the z34 helping sell monster energy drinks and tapout shirts.

DUDE LOFL! You forgot 'Violent Clique' windshield banners hahahaha.

I don't understand some people..
"We want a new cheap turbo i4 coupe!"
"fuck the ecoboost mustang cause issa ferd!"
You probably haven't driven or drifted one, they're great.


Hell the 240sx/Silvia in stock form is a pos too so...


THEYTOOKERRJAHBS!
Yeah I don't think the Ford hate is warranted. On days I dream about selling my S-Chassis cars I end up thinking about the new Mustang or a ZN6. That's if I don't end up with an S15 but i'm talking about walking away from Nissan completely. Ford and Toyota/Subaru have the only interesting RWD cars out right now.




The fact that Ghosn grew the company from being essentially smaller than Renault to being 60% larger than Renault in a little over 10 years says something and to rebuke him because he isn't producing a car without "passion" is basically taking the whole cool car thing out of context. Porsche, Ferrari, etc do not apply. They make for a very very niche market. Nissan and co are in it to mass produce. Passion cars are just a by product of making the bean counters happy. Simple.

The fact that they produce soul less, ugly cars are just the ends to a means to get them back to a functioning brand.

My bad. My argument has always been that a direct competitor to the ZN6 would be Nissan's best bet. Sure a lot of energy-drink-slurping hillbillies would bitch about power (like they do with the ZN6) but at this point I just want the God damned S16. Are you saying that the ZN6 venture didn't make money?

...and we're rebuking him because he fucked up lol. I don't know exactly how it works but I don't think he's the entire design team. They need to be fired because everything in their lineup LOOKS like shit. Altimas aren't even 'attractive'.

[dizzariot]

Does anyone actually know who designs Nissan's cars? Mazda has an actual theme that all cars follow and they update it from time-to-time. There's no denying that Renault makes hideous fucking cars...maybe that's why current Nissans are so bulbous and ugly.


https://www.cars.com/cstatic-images/car-pictures/xl/usc40nis131a021001.png

https://cdn2.carbuyer.co.uk/sites/carbuyer_d7/files/styles/article_main_image/public/car_images/renault-megane-c-c-cabriolet-2014-cut-out.jpg?itok=Dm0oVeRf

[drift freaq]

I wonder if bringing the S15 line back and making them in the USA would make a difference.
The s15 could be Nissan’s answer to new cars like the Toyota BRZ and the Foucs RS. Stop the Z line and start up the S line.

Nissan would never axe the Falirlady Z its right up there with the GTR in the heritage department. The Silvia while loved was always below both of them the one S chassis that stood shoulder to shoulder in Japan was the 180sx. Otherwise worldwide the Z and the GTR have the deepest heritage.

As to speaking of comments about Ford , Ford did not need bailout money in the great recission and did not take it.
Ford builds some awesome cars and while some have been discontinued in the U.S. per Jim Hacketts direction they are stil widely popular in Europe and are still being made and sold over there including new generations of models.

Finally on Ghosn truth be told I am not supriswd by this development. Nissan only partnered with Renault out of economic need when the faced bankruptcy
When Ghosn pushed the merger I am not surprised the board would figure out a way to block it. Japan and Japanese are a proud people in general. They do not kowtow to Foreigners owning and running their business. The French were and are greedy and usually ungrateful. They did Nissan no favors when it came time for Nissan to purchase stock in Renault per the original agreement . In fact they cheated them by only letting them buy 15% which is a non voting amount.
So in Nissans eyes Renault had already insulted them in 2003-2005. Now to add injury to insult Ghosn was pushing a merger that amounted to a leveraged takeover in Renaults favor leaving Nissan the lesser.

This kinda of stuff happens all the time in mergers and one company usually suffers for it. It happened to Bank of America a west coast based bank with great heritage.it was merged with a Smaller bank in South Carolina that raised capital and made a leveraged merger/buyout. Yup BA execs,got payed handsomely to allow it to happen. Becuase the banks founder A.P. Gianni was no longer alive and this being America no loved lost. It went through.

Of course if someone tried this on Ford because the Ford family still owns Ford in part they would have blocked it as well. Just like the Japanese Board of directors of Nissan did in this action.

I am interested to see what comes of this at Nissan in the direction they will take subsequently.

[kingkilburn]

Everything wrong with Nissan's aesthetic and ethos in the last 10ish years is decidedly french. Look at the historically noteworthy ugly and ill convinced Renaults going back decades.

Fucking convertible CVT SUVs. 10000% French.

[gbaby2089]

fReNcH cArS r UgLy

https://assets.catawiki.nl/assets/2016/8/8/c/5/6/c560626e-5d78-11e6-9eac-077195f382b5.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/916/43525489881_e0e2a51d2c_b.jpg
https://mindovermotor.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/bugatti-type-57-aerolithe-amelia-9.jpg?w=672&h=372&crop=1
http://www.simoncars.co.uk/talbot/slides/Talbot-Lago%20T150-C%20SS%201937.jpg

The French have made beautiful & ugly cars.
The Americans have done the same.
Ditto the Germans.
The Italians.
Japanese.
Etc.

Also between the UK, Italy and France...that's pretty much all of racing history covered. Alain Prost, heard of him? Matra? The 24 Hours of Le Mans? The Peugeot 908 (aka the car that ended Audi's dominance)? Didier Pironi (the rightful 1982 F1 champion were it not for an unfortunate injury causing him to miss 1/3 of the season)? Henri Pescarolo? Sebastien Loeb? Renault dominating F1 multiple times over the last few decades? Ligier? Sebastien Ogier? Didier Auriol? Johann Zarco in MotoGP?

France has a ridiculously rich motorsports history. They also still make fun, affordable cars to this day, Renault is not to blame for Nissan sucking in 2018. Nissan is to blame. They were not exactly a boon for car enthusiasts in 1999, were they?

Don't be a dolt.

[kingkilburn]

Nah. Renault has always made butt ugly cars with maybe 5 exceptions prior to piggybacking off Nissan.

Don't be an apologist.

[ronmcdon]

I'm going to agree with gbaby. I like a lot of French auto designs.

I do think many of the designs are taking risks like the 'renault megane trophy', Citroën ds 2, the modern alpine, peugot 308 gti, etc. Lots of polarizing hatchback design cues I'd imagine are love it or hate it. I personally love it, but realize I'm a minority. I think the classic and new alpine a110 are stunningly attractive, and yet it wouldnt surprise me if most people on this site hates it too.

I just don't think the French aesthetic appeals to buyers who prefer cleaner looks like say the vw gti or current mazda 3 (I find them a bit boring). To me its a shame because a lot of these are genuinely good driving cars or so many of the reviews would indicate. I would have no problem if Nissan replaced the stodgy and sad Sentra nismo with the megane rs, and the versa with the clio rs (a fiesta st competitor).

I think there were some fun cars under Ghosn. I'm not sure he had a lot of confidence in the
US market (if not also Japanese and Chinese) market wanted them enough to justify the investment.

[drift freaq]

I'm going to agree with gbaby. I like a lot of French auto designs.

I do think many of the designs are taking risks like the 'renault megane trophy', Citroën ds 2, the modern alpine, peugot 308 gti, etc. Lots of polarizing hatchback design cues I'd imagine are love it or hate it. I personally love it, but realize I'm a minority. I think the classic and new alpine a110 are stunningly attractive, and yet it wouldnt surprise me if most people on this site hates it too.

I just don't think the French aesthetic appeals to buyers who prefer cleaner looks like say the vw gti or current mazda 3 (I find them a bit boring). To me its a shame because a lot of these are genuinely good driving cars or so many of the reviews would indicate. I would have no problem if Nissan replaced the stodgy and sad Sentra nismo with the megane rs, and the versa with the clio rs (a fiesta st competitor).

I think there were some fun cars under Ghosn. I'm not sure he had a lot of confidence in the
US market (if not also Japanese and Chinese) market wanted them enough to justify the investment.

He was too French to have confidence in the U.S. market its not like the French are particulary enamored to us. Fact is they are too proud to accept the fact that we bailed there asses out in two world wars. They are not the grateful type. They tend to resent that fact too. So it stands to reason he would have little faith in our market we are buffoons in their eyes and even more so now with Trump. Lol

Oh and Truthfully FiST’s own Clio’s lol and Meganes. Plus what makes anyone think a Hot Hatch will do will in U.S. these days anyways. The Hot hatches that are here are some of the best in the world amd their sales are still mediocre in comparision to Trucks and SUV’s. Its a bit embarrassing but true. Between Ford amd VW its not like we are wanting for some good Hot hatches.

[Green Arrow]

yep those are ugly, they look like they also double as boats. Nissan has been the joke for the past 10 years.

[gbaby2089]

He was too French to have confidence in the U.S. market its not like the French are particulary enamored to us. Fact is they are too proud to accept the fact that we bailed there asses out in two world wars. They are not the grateful type. They tend to resent that fact too. So it stands to reason he would have little faith in our market we are buffoons in their eyes and even more so now with Trump. Lol

Oh and Truthfully FiST?€™s own Clio?€™s lol and Meganes. Plus what makes anyone think a Hot Hatch will do will in U.S. these days anyways. The Hot hatches that are here are some of the best in the world amd their sales are still mediocre in comparision to Trucks and SUV?€™s. Its a bit embarrassing but true. Between Ford amd VW its not like we are wanting for some good Hot hatches.

This is an extremely ignorant post about all things.

[kingkilburn]

Here's a shocker for everyone.

I like Nissan because it is Nissan and not Renault. I don't want my Nissan to look like a French design. I want my Nissan to look like a Nissan.

I could probably list 35-40 models of Nissan with spot on styling, styling that new Nissan models should echo rather than some weird ass fish car with intentionally fucked up styling.


If I had the time I'd make a montage of triumph compared to a montage of fishy dogshit.

[drift freaq]

This is an extremely ignorant post about all things.

Also, if you're going to bring up wars........you may want to to realize the colonists would've been C R U S H E D by the british if not for french assistance. So you should be thanking the French for your ability to be a dipshit & worship at the altar of a loosely sentient bag of racist hair gel.

Ah excuse me if you think I like or am a fan of the man in office, you just assumed a lot. I hate that bumbing fool. Lol



The post is not ignorant at all, its true France as a country has and does look down on us . A lot of French look at us im contempt. Truth hurts but its true. Oh and yes they did resent us bailing them out in both wars just look to French politicla comments about us in the 1950’s and 1960’s . Were you even alive in the 60’s?

As far as the revolution comment, yup they helped us out but they did not bail us out. Lol

You throw a lot of insults at me while all I did is write some historical truth. Hmmmm don’t like truth and respond with insults.

Now who does that sound like?

[ronmcdon]

He was too French to have confidence in the U.S. market its not like the French are particulary enamored to us. Fact is they are too proud to accept the fact that we bailed there asses out in two world wars. They are not the grateful type. They tend to resent that fact too. So it stands to reason he would have little faith in our market we are buffoons in their eyes and even more so now with Trump. Lol

Oh and Truthfully FiST’s own Clio’s lol and Meganes. Plus what makes anyone think a Hot Hatch will do will in U.S. these days anyways. The Hot hatches that are here are some of the best in the world amd their sales are still mediocre in comparision to Trucks and SUV’s. Its a bit embarrassing but true. Between Ford amd VW its not like we are wanting for some good Hot hatches.

The megane trophy is more of a ctr & focus rs competitor than fiesta st. You're also not getting Ford hatches in the US pretty soon unless in the unlikely event Ford somehow changes its mind. So hot hatch wise, you're pretty much stuck with the VW gti and golf r, which may or may not come with a manual based how things change in the market. Vw in Australia I think has stopped offering manual GTis. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd like to think having more options isnt a bad thing.

I was tempted to add the CTR and veloster N, but I have a hunch those would not be taken seriously here given Zilvia seems to prioritize a certain aesthic over performance and how the car actually drives.

[dizzariot]

...the aesthetic is ‘not ugly’...and the CTR is. Amazing engineering and accomplishments don’t change the fact that Honda made an ugly fucking car.

At the end of the day we want to be fast and cool, right? That’s what made hot rods what they are and that’s pretty much our end goal now: to be our idea of ‘cool’. Style is an opinion but most people nowadays don’t really like something, we just settle for it. CTR is a good example because on paper it’s amazing but I don’t think anyone REALLY loves the styling 100%. We settle because of what the car offers.

I hope this Nissan shake-up doesn’t force us to settle for ugly, bulbous, decompressing-deepsea-fish-brought-up-in-the-dragnet styling anymore. Here’s to hoping...

[kingkilburn]

I would expect a quick(for a car company) change. They've had so many compelling designs and technologies go nowhere under this asshole that they must be chomping at the bit to break out and style on the auto world again.

Countdown to Nissan finding the cash to not only buy enough of their own stock to negate Renault's stake in the company but also buying majority in Renault.

[kingkilburn]

Ghosn was denied bail(again) and officially resigned today.


Why his resignation was announced by the French finance minister rather than the company is a good fucking question. It shows how deep the problems run and what Nissan has been up against.

[kingkilburn]

Renault is now openly copping to his embezzlement. If this is what they found and we're willing to talk about publicly I wonder what investigators will turn up.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nissan-ghosn-renault-idUSKCN1PW0ON

[kingkilburn]

Ghosn's bail approved. Bond set at $9,000,000. Prosecutors have appealed.

Edit
The release agreement would be house arrest, a gag order, and 24/7 surveillance of the home. I'm sure there's more but that's what's been released.

[kingkilburn]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/business-leaders/carlos-ghosns-accused-escape-plotters-can-be-extradited-to-japan-u-s-judge-says

[exitspeed]

Eventually a movie needs to be made of this.

[ronmcdon]

yes, would love to see it made into a comedy

[kingkilburn]

https://japantoday.com/category/crime/Former-Nissan-executive-Greg-Kelly-pleads-not-guilty-as-trial-begins

[Antihero983]

This was all in the best interests of Nissan," Kelly said, reading from a statement.

Sure, sure. Lmfao

[kingkilburn]

Can you imagine going to real prison for an actual millionaire that fled the country without you?

[kingkilburn]

The guys that smuggled ghosn out are being extradited to Japan.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/michael-taylor-peter-taylor-carlos-ghosn-extradition-japan/

[ixfxi]

Ghosn is innocent and should have cut ties the minute he stepped down.

Japans legal system is for the shits and for the birds.

Without Ghosn, this company is DOOMED.

[kingkilburn]

Dude, you are certifiable. lol