Kinugawa 20g turbo review

[Tom N]

Couldnt really find any reviews on these turbos on SR motors so I am making one.

After looking into several turbo upgrades for the car I decided I wanted to stick with the factory T2 platform. The GT2871r seems to be the choice that so many go with. I`m sure there a great reason but I didn’t want to do that. Having been a DSM guy for the last 15 some years I contacted Robert from Forced Performance to see if I can get a FP green or even a 20g in a T2 housing. He didn’t have the stuff to do it. I was about to just buy the Tomie M7960 as it is a TD06 SL2 20g in a 8cm housing. Well I am told by a local guy about Kinugawa turbos and that they sell MHI style turbos in a Nissan bolt on turbine housing. So I do some reading into them and learn that Kinugawa is a basically Kamak turbos from Tiawan and are pretty popular over seas and are becoming popular here in the Subaru world. Found many people using them on Subaru boards with lots of positive results.
So after several emails ( which they answered promptly ) one of which was to confirm they do balance these turbos, I decide to give them a try and order their TD06 SL2 20g in 8cm housing with 3in anti surge cover.
It left Tiawan on Oct 2nd and Arrived at my house with signature delivery on Oct 6th.
That’s some fast delivery.


http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/tnoonen/shippinglabel_zps08565c09.png (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/tnoonen/media/shippinglabel_zps08565c09.png.html)


Came packaged well and looks good so far. Comes with coolant and oil lines using banjo fitting for all except oil return (obviously)
Also came with multi layer steel gaskets as well as new studs and bolts for the manifold and turbine housing.
And also a free keychain flashlight. :coold:


http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/tnoonen/Kinugawa_zpsae26babc.jpg (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/tnoonen/media/Kinugawa_zpsae26babc.jpg.html)

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/tnoonen/Kinugawa3_zpsd5eb1875.jpg (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/tnoonen/media/Kinugawa3_zpsd5eb1875.jpg.html)

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/tnoonen/Kinugawa5_zps45253e29.jpg (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/tnoonen/media/Kinugawa5_zps45253e29.jpg.html)

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/tnoonen/Kinugawa7_zps75dacf1b.jpg (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/tnoonen/media/Kinugawa7_zps75dacf1b.jpg.html)

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/tnoonen/Kinugawa1_zps4ee17111.jpg (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/tnoonen/media/Kinugawa1_zps4ee17111.jpg.html)

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/tnoonen/Kinugawa4_zps3a57f15d.jpg (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/tnoonen/media/Kinugawa4_zps3a57f15d.jpg.html)

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/tnoonen/Kinugawa6_zpsd75526ca.jpg (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/tnoonen/media/Kinugawa6_zpsd75526ca.jpg.html)


After removing the stock manifold/turbo/02 housing I got to enjoy dealing with nuts that were hit with a welder on the turbine housing to manifold. :bash:


http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/tnoonen/Kinugawa2_zps294fcf35.jpg (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/tnoonen/media/Kinugawa2_zps294fcf35.jpg.html)


So new turbo is connected to the manifold and 02 housing and going back in the car. Install was not bad. I will say the lines you get are very much so universal in that the oil return pipe is too long and I needed to cut it down, but it worked after shortening it.
Both coolant lines are longer than they need to be and the size of them back the one that bolts to the block a bit difficult as where the lines screws on the the banjo fitting wants to hit against raised areas on the block when tightening the bango bolt down. I had to have the line sitting in this one specific direction to work. But all the lines supplied do work.


http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/tnoonen/turbo1_zps75aeb8b0.jpg (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/tnoonen/media/turbo1_zps75aeb8b0.jpg.html)

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/tnoonen/turbo_zps782ebe0f.jpg (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/tnoonen/media/turbo_zps782ebe0f.jpg.html)


Took the car to the dyno Saturday morning so Martin could reflash the ecu. Car would smoke some at first ( oil smoke ) when going wot but it seemed to start to go away after a few pulls. Only problem we had was the little internal gate cant keep up and when the boost hits it starts to jump up and down especial above 18 psi.
If we turn the gain all the way down then it would smooth out some but we lose the benefit of a electronic boost control. You can see on this picture I took ater a few runs how the HP jumps up and down early on.
So next up is locating a S15 manifold to put a external on.
Car made 346/348 at 18psi


http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/tnoonen/dyno1_zpsd38a7ee7.jpg (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/tnoonen/media/dyno1_zpsd38a7ee7.jpg.html)

I will update this as it goes whether its good or bad.
Planing to hit the track this coming Thursday. Car went 12.48 @ 113 on the stock turbo last week. We`ll see how it does on this new turbo.

[Tom N]

Forgot to mention that the stock S15 turbo at this same boost level and same dyno made 291hp.

[antigravity]

Just curious, do you see any boost in first gear, and what rpm does full boost hit in 2nd? Thanks bro..

[Tom N]

Just curious, do you see any boost in first gear, and what rpm does full boost hit in 2nd? Thanks bro..


Forgot to add that also. Thanks for asking.
I have not paid attention to first gear but it must build boost as it blows the tires away.
In 2nd going wot at 2500 rpms it hits full boost right around 4k. Definitely more laggy than the T28 but lots more top end.

[s13silvia123]

the EVO guys seem to love these turbos in which you can costume them as well. I practically read almost over 3/4 of the thread to understand what was going on.
you can also refer to my link below from the EVO forum

[240sxfan6882]

The is the first review that I see from these turbos so far. Good work and keep us updated!

Kamak sells quite a bit of direct-bolt on turbos for the SR20 in tons of sizes with billet-wheel options and even some t3 flanged ones.

[Tom N]

:redxd:Just curious, do you see any boost in first gear, and what rpm does full boost hit in 2nd? Thanks bro..


I took the car for a drive last night and tested rolling into it in 1st. Couldn't tell you when it hits full boost but boost controller read 18psi peak.

[Tom N]

The oil return pipe that it comes with doesn't really work on a LHD car.
I explained the situation with them and they sent me out a replacement one with a 45 degree angle that should work. They mailed it USPS priority no charge. So far experience with them has been very good.

Unfortunately the next test n tune session at the track isn't for a couple weeks.

[Tom N]

Track finally reopened for test n tunes. Unfortunately it was packed. Only got 3 runs.
I really need a 2 step. Bogged the car all 3 times. Car just doesn't launch like the little fast spooling S15 turbo. Next time out I'm going to try slipping the clutch a lot more.
Any ways with everything the same as with the S15 turbo, same boost level ( 18psi ), timing , fuel etc the 20g ran 5 mph faster in the 1/4 while bogging the launch and is picking up 26mph in the back half.

Swapping out the stock injectors tomorrow and then taking the car to Martin to retune it.

[rwtf]

I feel like i'm about to shit my pants.

[Tom N]

I feel like i'm about to shit my pants.


Thank you for sharing.

[ultimateirving]

That's awesome man good to hear you picked up a lot of top end. What et did you run with you bad launches

[Tom N]

That's awesome man good to hear you picked up a lot of top end. What et did you run with you bad launches

12.603 with 2.210 60ft
12.435 with 2.057 60ft
Can't find the 3rd slip. I think the clutch was slipping a little on the last run.

Need a 2 step and some 1.8 60fts.

[ultimateirving]

12.603 with 2.210 60ft
12.435 with 2.057 60ft
Can't find the 3rd slip. I think the clutch was slipping a little on the last run.

Need a 2 step and some 1.8 60fts.

Wow if you can cut a Better 60' no doubt you be close to 12 flat

[Tom N]

Wow if you can cut a Better 60' no doubt you be close to 12 flat

116 mph on a bogged launch should hit 11's with a good 60ft.
My GVR4 ran 11.4 @ 119 with good 60ft. And that was with a 16g

[ultimateirving]

116 mph on a bogged launch should hit 11's with a good 60ft.
My GVR4 ran 11.4 @ 119 with good 60ft. And that was with a 16g

That's pretty good. I haven't taken mine to the strip in two years since it was stock back the.

I try to be conservative. TO many bench racers out there with rediculous numbers

[Tom N]

I try to be conservative. TO many bench racers out there with rediculous numbers

No doubt about that. Good 60fts are much harder to come by in this platform.
Having raced DSM's for the past 15 years I'm a little spoiled in that department.

[Tom N]

Put the new injectors in the car today and had the ecu reflashed.
25 psi it made 392hp 412 tq.

It really needs a external gate though. As soon as I get a external set up on we will fine tube it. Still a good amount if power in this turbo.

[jr_ss]

Tom, can you throw up your dyno sheet for the kiddies?

Also, just to note, Tom has a Methanol injector system, so he can dip into the higher boost pressures.

[Tom N]

Ill have to see about getting the dyno sheet. I had him print it but I forgot to grab it.

Yes the car is on pump gas with alcohol injection.

Made a pass at the track at 22psi. Turned the boost down a little to start with.
Went 11.905 @ 117.90
Clutch us slipping. Car reeked of burnt clutch when I got back to pits.
So no reason to turn it back up any right now. Very pleased so far.

[Tom N]

Let the car/clutch cool for awhile and made one more pass before they closed.
60ft wasn't as good as the track prep had gone away but I did get a new best mph.
12.004 @ 119.76

[ultimateirving]

Thats bad ass man! great times for that thing.
What clutch you using for those passes?

[Tom N]

Thats bad ass man! great times for that thing.
What clutch you using for those passes?

It's a Silkroad kit that has a full face disk and lightened flywheel.

[RurouniMidnight]

Dang nice numbers and traps! I've been eyeing their 18g 8cm ;)

[Tom N]

Dang nice numbers and traps! I've been eyeing their 18g 8cm ;)

I can't speak for longevity yet but their customer service has been top notch and their 20g performers as good as any MHI 20g I've ever used. Love the hard hit of the 20g.
Going to continue pushing this one a bit then will have them swap their billet wheel onto it and compare the difference.

[s13silvia123]

Tom, this should help you a bit to understand what some inputs people have about the billet wheel.

Kinugawa 25g turbo thread - evolutionm.net (http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-engine-turbo-drivetrain/589403-kinugawa-25g-turbo-thread.html)

[Livinstrong]

After almost buying a 90 GSX, I learned quite a bit about MHI turbos. Nice to see there is a company hat produces them with "our" flange. How muh did the turbo cost if you don't mind me asking?

[Tom N]

After almost buying a 90 GSX, I learned quite a bit about MHI turbos. Nice to see there is a company hat produces them with "our" flange. How muh did the turbo cost if you don't mind me asking?


Turbocharger SR20DET CA180DET S14 S15 3" Anti-Surge TD06SL2-20G 8cm / 5 Bolt / T25 Internal Gate (http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/turbochargersr20detsilvias14s15td05h-18gturbo-3-1-1-2-1-1.aspx)

[Livinstrong]

Turbocharger SR20DET CA180DET S14 S15 3" Anti-Surge TD06SL2-20G 8cm / 5 Bolt / T25 Internal Gate (http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/turbochargersr20detsilvias14s15td05h-18gturbo-3-1-1-2-1-1.aspx)

Interesting. I'm curious how it would perform compared to a BorgWarner of similar size

[new2sr20]

Tom- Wish I would have known you were looking for a 20G. I have a Forced Performance 20G they made for the SR a while back with 3000 miles on the turbo.

[Tom N]

Interesting. I'm curious how it would perform compared to a BorgWarner of similar size

I am not aware of a Borg Warner that is available as a bolt on turbo.

[Tom N]

Tom- Wish I would have known you were looking for a 20G. I have a Forced Performance 20G they made for the SR a while back with 3000 miles on the turbo.

I wish you knew also. Would have definitely been interested.

[Tom N]

Shortly after putting the turbo on I noticed a odd notice when I would shut the car off that sounded like a wheel rubbing. I did some inspecting and could not find any evidence of that. There was no shaft play and I only heard it when the car shut off for a few seconds. Turbo performed like it should and showed no signs of being bad a side from this noise.
Here's a video

http://youtu.be/QHHrWmZ3WAc

I contact Kinugawa with my concern. They send me a new chra 2 day priority with a shipping label to return mine. My experience with them customer service so far has been 100% top notch.
Anyways I get the chra and swap it in. And this is the result

http://youtu.be/QHHrWmZ3WAc

I am a bit baffled now. Well I can believe 2 are making the same exact noise so I start banging my head against the wall trying to figure it and I finally did.
The noise is not the turbo. Anyone care to guess what it is?

[Livinstrong]

I am not aware of a Borg Warner that is available as a bolt on turbo.
I was more curious about similar sized turbos in this price range than interchangeability.

For the unknown noise, I've heard that before with the spool down on ball bearing turbos, but never with journal bearing turbos. This occurred even after y swapped out CHRA's? Really impressed with their customer support regardless.

[Tom N]

I was more curious about similar sized turbos in this price range than interchangeability.

For the unknown noise, I've heard that before with the spool down on ball bearing turbos, but never with journal bearing turbos. This occurred even after y swapped out CHRA's? Really impressed with their customer support regardless.


The sound turns out to not be coming from the turbo at all.

[ultimateirving]

The sound turns out to not be coming from the turbo at all.

Tom does the sound kinda sound like metal screeching or barely scraping together? I had an issue that i swore was the turbo but i found it only occured after i put the new turbo on because it didnt have a spot to connect the front ofthe T off of the valve cover, so i blocked it instead and thats when the horrible whining started.
After removing the plug and rerouting the lines thru my catch can the sound went away

Could you post a picture of the turbo side, THe whole valve cover and exhaust manifold visible plz

[Tom N]

You can hear the noise in the 2 videos I posted.
The factory line from valve cover to turbo intake pipe is still connected.

[Tom N]

I would bet money on the noise being the throw out bearing.

[Tom N]

Little update to this. I hurt the motor right before Christmas and got a new one built and installed about a month ago. New motor for some reason wasn't feeding oil to the turbo from the factory location. I figured this out after the car had idled for about 20 minutes, changed oil and took it for a drive. I wasn't getting on it, was just bringing up the rpms then letting the engine drag itself down producing vacuum. I noticed the car wasn't really producing any boost when bringing the rpms up. So I tried giving it some throttle and still no real boost. So I went strait home. This totaled 9 miles of driving. I figured out the stolid feed location on the block wasn't putting out oil. So the turbo idled for 20 minutes and drive for 9 miles with no oil going to it. I was sure it would be toast. Well I'm sure it is hurt but not ruined. So far that's not the case. New motor and existing turbo has about 2k miles on it now including a day at the dyno and some track runs. I have to say I'm rather impressed the turbo wasn't ruined.

Onto new dyno results.
On wastegate pressure ( 14psi ) with minimal tuning at that level it made 356/316
At 22psi it made 425 don't remember the TQ. we had to stop there as I started getting valve float. Forgot to get a shot of the dyno graph at the last boost level in my disappointment of having to stop there and back the boost off some.

Wastegate dyno sheet

[TheRealSy90]

Glad to see an update finally, did you ever figure out what blocked the oil feed on your engine?

[Tom N]

Glad to see an update finally, did you ever figure out what blocked the oil feed on your engine?


No I did not. Just kept with feeding the turbo from the oil filter housing.

[Tom N]

Little update to the thread.

I got the new motor back together a few weeks ago. Previous motor had a little mishap and dropped a valve in cylinder 4.

We out the car back on the dyno last week and found two issues. Issue one is the turbine wheel has damage to it. I don't know why I never checked it after the last motor dropped a valve. Obviously motor pieces went through it while leaving the motor via exhaust. Took the whole turbo set up off the old motor when pulling the motor and simply set it aside and forgot about it. Other problem is cylinder 2 is pressurizing the coolant system. Confirmed this with a leak down test that produced bubbling in the radiator on that cylinder.

Anyways. To my surprise the turbo while damaged still produced good numbers. We didn't notice there was a problem with compression getting into the coolant till we turned the boost up.

After pulling the head to fix the issue and taking the turbo apart to look at it I notice the turbine wheel was bent up from motor pieces. Surprising after everything this turbo has been put through it still has no play in it and made 454/441 at 24/25 psi

Should have the head back soon and ordering a new 20g. Going to try a billet one this time and see how it compares tot he standard cast wheel.

[Tom N]

Picture of the turbine wheel. It's seen better days.

[WheelWhore]

Seen these on ebay and always looked away. Glad to see a review!

[TheRealSy90]

Any updates on this setup?

[Tom N]

Any updates on this setup?



Sort of. After the turbine housing was damaged by valve pieces I decied to move on to a billet 20g so I ordered a new chra with the same turbine wheel but a billet 7 blade 20g wheel.

My results of a back to back comparison of a td06sl2 20g with a standard cast compressor wheel vs a billet 7 blade compressor wheel.
The billet wheel is a bit taller but the same exducer/inducer as a standard 20g.
You can see how much taller the 7 blade wheel is in the photos.

Took the car to the dyno with the 7 blade billet 20g.
On waste gate pressure which is 14.6psi on the Blitz EBC ( shows about 1.5psi less on a autometer boost gauge ) it made 381hp
The previous cast 20g made 356 at the same boost level.

At 24psi on the EBC it made 450hp. It was starting to break up though do to spark blow out so had to stop there. Need to put in new plugs and gap them down some.
Took 27-28psi to make 450 on the cast 20g.

This was done on a S15 SR20DET

Comparison showing height difference between cast 20g and billet 7 blade.

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/tnoonen/imagejpg3_zpsf2ce1b4f.jpg

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/tnoonen/imagejpg1_zpsea24156c.jpg

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/tnoonen/imagejpg2_zpsd6eaacf3.jpg

[Tom N]

Dyno comparisons. Both at 15psi

Cast 20g
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/tnoonen/imagejpg1_zpsc1103b87.jpg

Billet 20g
Pulled strong all the way to 8k rpms
http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr179/tnoonen/imagejpg2_zpsa2ce44a0.jpg

[TheRealSy90]

Looks good and making great numbers, can't wait to get my Greddy 20g kit installed. Also been trying to sell my spare greddy t3 20g lol.

[nissantuner_s13]

I just want to say thanks for keeping updates on this thred! This info has helped me out a lot! Thanks man.

[Member]

Just tuned a friends car last night stock cams with a greddy 20g at 22.4 psi it made 468whp SAE corrected. Not sure if you saw my last post on the 2867 thread either but if I went by STD correction as your graphs show my setup would have made roughly 438whp with a 53.5mm turbine wheel vs. your 60mm turbine. So I wouldn't say there is anything wrong with my setup.

[Tom N]

Just tuned a friends car last night stock cams with a greddy 20g at 22.4 psi it made 468whp SAE corrected. Not sure if you saw my last post on the 2867 thread either but if I went by STD correction as your graphs show my setup would have made roughly 438whp with a 53.5mm turbine wheel vs. your 60mm turbine. So I wouldn't say there is anything wrong with my setup.


Not sure what exactly your comparing but there's more to a turbo than just the inducer of a turbine but my turbo is a 54.1mm.
And it made 460 hp on pump gas with 2 cylinders that were low on compression. One was 110 the other 120. Cylinder 3 and 4 were at proper compression.
i am currently building a new bottom end I guarantee you it will hit 500hp and with out E85.

[Member]

Not sure if you have looked at your turbo's specs. But your turbine inducer is 61mm the exducer is 54mm. And I don't doubt it is capable of 500whp. It should be easily achieved at 25psi. However your turbo is still not comparable to A GTX2867R.

[Tom N]

Not sure if you have looked at your turbo's specs. But your turbine inducer is 61mm the exducer is 54mm. And I don't doubt it is capable of 500whp. It should be easily achieved at 25psi. However your turbo is still not comparable to A GTX2867R.


What matters is what they can flow not just the one end of a turbine diameter.
The two turbos are not very far off in airflow.
Gtx2867r is rated at 48lb/min
What exactly do you think a 20g is rated at?

Yes I tend to forget the inducer is the larger wheel on the tubine which is opposite of compressor.
The gtx2857r has a exducer of 53.9 ( not 53.5 ) and the 20g has a exducer of 54.1 on the turbine.
Huge difference there. A whole .2mm
But again all that really matter is what it will flow and the gtx flows 48lb/min
Go ahead and look up the 20g.

[Member]

I am very aware of the 20g's compressor flow. But the fact that you are missing is that the BIG side of the GTX2867R turbine is sorry 53.9mm. But that is the BIG SIDE! They are very different.

[Tom N]

I am very aware of the 20g's compressor flow. But the fact that you are missing is that the BIG side of the GTX2867R turbine is sorry 53.9mm. But that is the BIG SIDE! They are very different.

From what I found online that's the exducer which is the small side on a turbine.
Measure it for yourself.
Which by the way is what a 20g flows. 47-48lb/min.

Not sure why your so focused on the turbine exducer anyways.
20g flows 47.4lb/min
GTX2867r flows 48lb/min
Explain to me how these turbos are not comparable in performance again???

[Member]

I have one right in front of me. It's 53.9 on the big side "inducer". And about 46mm on the small side "exducer". You don't know what you are talking about man. And the Compressor flow has nothing to do with the exhaust or "turbine" side of the turbo. Looks like you need to do a little research.

[Member]

And if you don't understand why I'm focused on the flow of the exhaust housing and wheel then you obviously don't know very much about turbo's. Or why a TD06 20G and a GTX2867R are very different turbos.

[Tom N]

I have one right in front of me. It's 53.9 on the big side "inducer". And about 46mm on the small side "exducer". You don't know what you are talking about man. And the Compressor flow has nothing to do with the exhaust or "turbine" side of the turbo. Looks like you need to do a little research.

I did and saw this. If it's wrong so be. Doesn't change that that they flow the same.
http://realstreetperformance.com/Products/Garrett/Garrett-GTX2867R-Turbocharger-w-o-Turbine-Hsg.html

Not sure why your so hung up on the size of one side of one wheel. More to a turbo than that. You know the right??? You know the gtx2867 has a larger compressor wheel than the 20g right? Which again is meaningless by itself. What matter is what it can flow.

Both flow about the same 48lb/min of air so please once again I ask how are they not comparable performing turbos?
Or do you just not want them to be for personal reasons?

[Tom N]

Don't be mad people are telling you your dyno numbers on E85 are not impressive. If you disagree then thats ok. No need to get all defensive. Not everyone can be fast and build fast cars.

You go ahead and keep telling yourself two turbos that flow almost the same airflow are not comparable at all.

[Member]

Because the limiting factor of a GTX2867R is the amount the turbine side can flow. Which limits top end power. But because of its small size it has a much smaller rotating mass which helps it spool up and build boost much sooner. I am very aware that the compressor side flows very close to the same amount. But like I said you are the one who does not understand how a turbo works. The reason I'm trying to explain this to you is because you are trying to prove an incorrect point. All of the information you need is out there. Search for a while. You will find the answers you are looking for. And until you do stop spreading incorrect info.

[Member]

Don't get mad because you are ignorant. I am not trying to bash on you. Just trying to let you know that you have the wrong information.

[Member]

Also I could care less about peak numbers. You completely failed to notice the flat horsepower and torque curve my car produces. This is what road racers and drifters shoot for with their tunes. So again try to research before you post.

[Tom N]

Because the limiting factor of a GTX2867R is the amount the turbine side can flow. Which limits top end power. But because of its small size it has a much smaller rotating mass which helps it spool up and build boost much sooner. I am very aware that the compressor side flows very close to the same amount. But like I said you are the one who does not understand how a turbo works. The reason I'm trying to explain this to you is because you are trying to prove an incorrect point. All of the information you need is out there. Search for a while. You will find the answers you are looking for. And until you do stop spreading incorrect info.


You keep telling yourself that. I didn't say the gtx should make exactly the same power as a 20g. He se why I don't have the garret turbo on this car. But they are comparable turbos is all I said. And they are.
A tdo5 20g and a tdo6sl2 20g are comparable turbos even though the sl2 20g will peak out a bit more. But not enough to say it's not in the same ball park. You think turbos that are within 20-30 hp of each other are not comparable? That's a joke. I've been building turbo car since you were a little kid I know what I'm talking about and see turbos are 100% comparable performance wise, one is not leaps above the other. I make more power on smaller turbos than most people for a reason. Bring me that car of yours and I'll show you what it can do on E85 with that little turbo.

[Tom N]

Also I could care less about peak numbers. You completely failed to notice the flat horsepower and torque curve my car produces. This is what road racers and drifters shoot for with their tunes. So again try to research before you post.



Please show me one of my dyno graphs that's not flat. My dyno graphs are awesome.
My tq doesn't nose dive like yours either.

[Member]

Haha. Whatever you say man. I'll bring you my car so you can blow it up just like yours. Go ahead and keep thinking they are comparable. I find it funny how misinformed you are but you think you have it all figured out. I'll leave you to your build man. Good luck with this one.

[Member]

And the torque from my Dyno dives off because of the smaller turbine side of my turbo. But you know everything so you already figured that out.

[Tom N]

Engine didn't blow up. If that matters.
I certainly don't know everything. But I inow these turbos are not worlds apart, and for the record I never said they were identical I said they were comparable performers and they 100% are, but I'm not sure why you are focused on that? My turbo has nothing to do with why you run so little timing on E85.
e85 needs a good amount of timing. Any good tuner knows this. and I guarantee you I can flatten that tq curve out more. You can blame it on the wheel size all you want but there's more to it than that.

Your car you tune it how ever makes you happy. But don't get upset if you put numbers out there and people, and not just me by the way, point out things to looks at as the number isn't empressive. If you weren't done tuning it or weren't looking to push it then that's fine. Just don't get so offended. But I'm telling you, you can make that same power with less boost if you dial it in better. But I'm done with this. I know what I can do and my numbers and track times have always spoke for themselves.
Have a good night and I do wish your build the best.

[TheRealSy90]

Tom, i've had multiple tuners tell me that I will not be able to make 400whp or more with being limited to 91 pump gas. But you're making a lot more than that on pump gas? They're saying i'm going to max out around 350-380whp with a td0620g on 91 even if I do water methanol injection.

[Tom N]

Tom, i've had multiple tuners tell me that I will not be able to make 400whp or more with being limited to 91 pump gas. But you're making a lot more than that on pump gas? They're saying i'm going to max out around 350-380whp with a td0620g on 91 even if I do water methanol injection.
Most tuners will down play what they can make so if get are any good and make a little more than they said could be done they look like heros. If they tell you what it could really do and they can't get there than hey look like shit.
Your build will also determine how far you can push a turbo. I make more than most on small turbos cause I don't follow the typical cookie cutter build so many tend to. And there's nothing wrong with following a known path you know works it's just not typically the way you will make the most power.

The 20g is not a very big turbo like some want to believe. And around 400hp is typical on one.
What is your full build?

Edit I have mentioned this before but I am running meth injection with pump gas just want to make sure you know that.

[TheRealSy90]

What is your full build?

Edit I have mentioned this before but I am running meth injection with pump gas just want to make sure you know that.


Ah okay that makes sense.

I was going to install the kit on my stock other than cams redtop and maybe do a head gasket and studs and just run it like that until it gives up at whatever a safe power level would be with 91 and probably pick up an AEM water meth kit later on.

And then i've got a spare built long block, CP 86.5/Eagle rods, ARP head studs & rod bolts, and GTIR main bolts, Cosworth 1.5mm headgasket, ACL bearings, ported and valve worked head with the full brian crower catalog except i'll be selling the 272 cams and swapping in my JWT S4's.

Also planning on running a bosch 044 fuel surge tank, with the current walbro 255 feeding the surge tank, stock fuel lines and rail. Currently Sard 550cc injectors on the stock engine, and I have new Sard 850cc injectors for the built engine since it should handle more boost if I can run more with the 91 & water/meth.

[jr_ss]

You'll def need to swap out your injectors if you plan on maxing out your setup as is. 400whp is minimum 750cc territory. Water meth is a great option if you don't plan on running race/E85 all the time. I may switch to a meth injection kit to take full advantage of my setup. I'd love to see what 25-28 psi does on the VET. Should be a 600whp recipe.

[TheRealSy90]

You'll def need to swap out your injectors if you plan on maxing out your setup as is. 400whp is minimum 750cc territory. Water meth is a great option if you don't plan on running race/E85 all the time. I may switch to a meth injection kit to take full advantage of my setup. I'd love to see what 25-28 psi does on the VET. Should be a 600whp recipe.


I've got some brand new Sard 850cc injectors if I need them. I'm guessing the aem water meth kit is the way to go?

[TheRealSy90]

You'll def need to swap out your injectors if you plan on maxing out your setup as is. 400whp is minimum 750cc territory. Water meth is a great option if you don't plan on running race/E85 all the time.


I've got some brand new Sard 850cc injectors if I need them. I'm guessing the aem water meth kit is the way to go?

[Tom N]

I've got some brand new Sard 850cc injectors if I need them. I'm guessing the aem water meth kit is the way to go?

It's an ok kit. I prefer www.alkycontrol.com
You can make 600hp with 850 injectors and meth injection.

[ProjectSQ]

Hey OP! so how's this turbo treating you? I've been saved my up for a new set up on my s13 sr and have put serious consideration into a 20g set up. From your experience what would you recommend from what you learned. I was hoping to run just pump gas, no meth, internal gate.

[Tom N]

Hey OP! so how's this turbo treating you? I've been saved my up for a new set up on my s13 sr and have put serious consideration into a 20g set up. From your experience what would you recommend from what you learned. I was hoping to run just pump gas, no meth, internal gate.


I don't wasted my time on pump gas. Alcohol injection is to simple of a way to utilize a turbo.
Internal gate is ok but external is always the way to go on a turbo that can make 400+hp.
I love the 20g. This car runs 11.2 @ 125 on 19-20psi on the 20g

[ProjectSQ]

850 injectors z32 maf? What ecu? Sorry for all the questions. Not trying to jack your set up just want to get a good idea of where I should invest my money

[Tom N]

850 injectors z32 maf? What ecu? Sorry for all the questions. Not trying to jack your set up just want to get a good idea of where I should invest my money

Never a reason to apologize to me for asking questions. There was I time many moons ago I had lots of questions.

The car is currently on a factory S15 ecu tuned via rom tune software.
It has a z32 maf and 750cc injectors with www.alkycontrol.com progressive alcohol injection kit. If you want a complete mod list of the set up that made the previous number I can give it to you.

There's a new motor going in the car soon. 11:1 bottom end with built up head.
This new set up will hit 500hp on the 20g.

Once e car hits 500hp on a factory style T2 framed bottom mount turbo on the stock ecu, a Haltech will be going into it.

[ProjectSQ]

Thanks for the input man. This seems like great turbo, definitely thinking to do it right the first time and go with the anti-surge and billet wheel. What's the story with the manifold. I've noticed a lot of people sticking with stock, is that primarily to avoid cracking?

[Tom N]

Thanks for the input man. This seems like great turbo, definitely thinking to do it right the first time and go with the anti-surge and billet wheel. What's the story with the manifold. I've noticed a lot of people sticking with stock, is that primarily to avoid cracking?



Well for me it was for two reasons. First was I had a goal I wanted to hit while using a stock intake/exhaust/ecu. Second is for durability on a daily driven car.

[Barabas]

Just be curious.Thank you for your sharing.

[TheRealSy90]

Well for me it was for two reasons. First was I had a goal I wanted to hit while using a stock intake/exhaust/ecu. Second is for durability on a daily driven car.

Tom, do you think a Greddy TD06H 20G 8cm will fit on the stock manifold?
I'm thinking of ditching the T3 manifold setup I've got, getting a T2/5bolt turbine housing for my greddy turbo from Kinugawa, hopefully it fits the turbine wheel, and installing it on a stock sr20 cast manifold with a Tial MVs 38mm gate welded on it.
I don't have a downpipe for my t3 top mount manifold, nor a way to build one. So I'd rather just stuff it on the stock manifold, weld the wastegate flap shut and buy a PBM cobra downpipe for it.
My concern is the compressor housing hitting the engine block or something like that, I know the EFR T2 turbos have this issue?

[Tom N]

I have a td06sl2 20g in a 8cm T2 bolt on housing. Using a factory exhaust manifold. It does not hit the block in any way.

[TheRealSy90]

I have a td06sl2 20g in a 8cm T2 bolt on housing. Using a factory exhaust manifold. It does not hit the block in any way.

Good to hear, you running an external gate on the stock manifold?

[Tom N]

Good to hear, you running an external gate on the stock manifold?



Yes. PTE 39mm gate.

[TheRealSy90]

Yes. PTE 39mm gate.


Does your 20g run water lines? My Greddy 20g doesn't have provisions for any water cooling. Think this would be a concern running it bottom mount close to the engine? I just tell myself i'll let it idle for a bit whenever I've run it hard. The old t3 internal gate 20g I had didn't have them either.


Sorry for rambling just trying to pass time at work haha.

[David48]

No update on the power it made a month or two ago?

[Tom N]

Does your 20g run water lines? My Greddy 20g doesn't have provisions for any water cooling. Think this would be a concern running it bottom mount close to the engine? I just tell myself i'll let it idle for a bit whenever I've run it hard. The old t3 internal gate 20g I had didn't have them either.


Sorry for rambling just trying to pass time at work haha.



I do not use the water lines.

[Tom N]

No update on the power it made a month or two ago?


431hp at 15psi

[Tom N]

520hp @ 22psi
Ran out of fuel had to stop there.