Strange trans problem. What actually keeps it in gear?

[Tedskiii]

So after many hours of searching, I still havent gotten a straight answer for my problem.

So the problem is that my trans slides out of 2nd gear on my sr20det. It only does this when I do a big clutch kick, or ebrake in. If i hold the shifter in place while doing this it won't slip out. When the car is in gear the shifter feels a little sloppy, aswell as in neutral.

This recently happend after changing out my clutch, never had any problems until now. Usually when your trans im bad won't it show signs?

I'm thinking it could possible be user error from reinstalling my shifter assembly, or something could be old/worn.

I see I can get a solid shifter bushing, or even just an oem replacement. Also found I can get the shifter springs replaced.

So what actually holds/keeps the trans in gear?

I hope for the best, and it's not my trans ! Thanks in advance. Will keep this updated.

[Mikester]

Sounds like a bad pressure plate... Or if you changed the PP when you did the clutch, maybe a pedal adjustment(?)

[Tedskiii]

Sounds like a bad pressure plate... Or if you changed the PP when you did the clutch, maybe a pedal adjustment(?)

When I changed my clutch I also swapped in new pressure plate, flywheel, all hardware, pilot, throwout, fork retaining clips, pivot ball, and slave.

I'm curious as to how it can just happen that fast without any symptoms.

[oni jake]

Assuming that your clutch pedal is adjusted and the pressure plate is clamping properly:

2nd gear is coming out because someone rounded the synchros on that gear. (Most likely from someone smashing it into 2nd)

If you want to fix it, you will need a new synchro, which requires you to completely disassemble the transmission... and you'll need a press. At that point, might as well completely rebuild the transmission.

How much metal, and what color, is coming out of the transmission fluid?

[Tedskiii]

Assuming that your clutch pedal is adjusted and the pressure plate is clamping properly:

2nd gear is coming out because someone rounded the synchros on that gear. (Most likely from someone smashing it into 2nd)

If you want to fix it, you will need a new synchro, which requires you to completely disassemble the transmission... and you'll need a press. At that point, might as well completely rebuild the transmission.

How much metal, and what color, is coming out of the transmission fluid?

Never noticed any shavings from the old fluid. I put royal purple because I couldn't find redline at the time. Question, if the pedal was out of adjustment wouldn't all gears be out of wack? I'm curious about that, I will check my fsm on pedal adjustment.

[cotbu]

Before I bought my Tanabe Transmission Bushing, I had a problem with 4th gear popping out! I'll be in 4th getting ready to switch, just touching the shifter would make it pop out. I realized the problem was sloppy shifting, from worn trans and motor mounts. I installed the shifter bushing and the round shifter thing, I noticed that if i shifted fast, like normal, the popping out was gone. I said F yeah! through the trans bushing on and it was like race car solid, precise and held in tight 2nd and 4th. So yeah, I hated that, removed the round aluminum shifter thing and that's how it's been for 6-7yrs. This might help you with the pop out in 2nd gear, I have the shifter thing if you want it. Overnight shipping or 2.5 Gallons of 93 octane.
http://i2.frsimg.com/images/detailed_images/Tanabe_DB1170_0113288133124f341500461f8.jpg

[Tedskiii]

Before I bought my Tanabe Transmission Bushing, I had a problem with 4th gear popping out! I'll be in 4th getting ready to switch, just touching the shifter would make it pop out. I realized the problem was sloppy shifting, from worn trans and motor mounts. I installed the shifter bushing and the round shifter thing, I noticed that if i shifted fast, like normal, the popping out was gone. I said F yeah! through the trans bushing on and it was like race car solid, precise and held in tight 2nd and 4th. So yeah, I hated that, removed the round aluminum shifter thing and that's how it's been for 6-7yrs. This might help you with the pop out in 2nd gear, I have the shifter thing if you want it. Overnight shipping or 2.5 Gallons of 93 octane.
http://i2.frsimg.com/images/detailed_images/Tanabe_DB1170_0113288133124f341500461f8.jpg



I searched FR, and could only find the circuit sports bushing? Also did this just happen to you out of nowhere? Or did you have problems that led up to it?

[cotbu]

Well, I noticed my failing pretty quickly. Drifting I noticed the fourth gear pop out. Drag racing, I noticed that I missed 2nd way too much. Only lasted about six months before I decide to, try something to fix my sucking. In the back of my mind, I knew where the problem was, because when I dynoed my car I saw the engine twist. Just had to make the time to fix it.

Sent from a Highly Tuned SIII using Tapatalk HD

[Tedskiii]

Well, I noticed my failing pretty quickly. Drifting I noticed the fourth gear pop out. Drag racing, I noticed that I missed 2nd way too much. Only lasted about six months before I decide to, try something to fix my sucking. In the back of my mind, I knew where the problem was, because when I dynoed my car I saw the engine twist. Just had to make the time to fix it.

Sent from a Highly Tuned SIII using Tapatalk HD

So you suggest I start with the shifter bushing first? I may just grab all new Oem hardware, and go with the circuit sports solid bushing. My trans mounts didn't like bad from what I can remember, and my
Motor mounts are solid. I had no signs of this, happened the day I put my trans back in.

[cotbu]

Yeah, bushing then the aluminum clamp thing for sure, it lock it in gear. 2nd and 4th for me. I didn't even know what it was for, at first. Like I said, mine was bad mounts coupled with quick shifts. I don't think I was putting it in all the way. ....That's what she said!

Sent from a Highly Tuned SIII using Tapatalk HD

[Shift n Drift]

Same thing happens to my spare tranny but only in 5th when I mash on it after 90...

[blkvrtswp]

If I am right, you owe me a beer.

I put the lower rubber shifter boot on backwards once, and it kept popping out of 2nd. I switched the boot back around and it totally stopped. I was really surprised.

This was also found to be happening on a few customer cars after trans swap. I hope it is your problem as well.

[racepar1]

Popping out of gear IS one of the early signs of transmission failure. The gears are held in by the design of the synchros. The synchros have little teeth around the outside of them. When engaged in gear those teeth lock into one another due to the opposing taper of the teeth on the synchro ring and the gear. As the teeth on the synchro and gear round off due to normal use and abuse over time they lose their positive lock due to the edges of the tapers rounding off. Once it gets rounded off too much it'll start to pop out of gear. Your tranny needs a rebuild. It is simply a coincidence that you're only noticing it after the clutch job. I'm willing to bet that you knew the clutch was weak before and you drove the car easier to protect it. Now, with the new clutch, you're likely driving it harder and now this issue is appearing. The issue was probably present before, you just didn't notice it. Maybe because you drove it easier, maybe because the new clutch grabs harder.

[S14DB]

Are we talking about the block rings wearing and not the sycnro's? Syncro's help you get into gear the block rings hold the gear.

[racepar1]

Are we talking about the block rings wearing and not the sycnro's? Syncro's help you get into gear the block rings hold the gear.

The synchronizer has teeth on the outside edge it that lock into the gear. Those teeth are what I suspect is worn. The blocking ring moves the synchronizer ring into position. Since the blocking ring and the gear are both steel and the synchronizer is brass that's what wears out first.

[cotbu]

I'm willing to bet that you knew the clutch was weak before and you drove the car easier to protect it. Now, with the new clutch, you're likely driving it harder and now this issue is appearing. The issue was probably present before, you just didn't notice it. Maybe because you drove it easier, maybe because the new clutch grabs harder.
Tedskiii, If this is the case, I'll still trade you the aluminum piece for a few gallons of premium for you to try. That's if the inner shift boot didn't fix your issue?!;)

[Tedskiii]

Update;

Still having the same problem, it happens randomly. Lastnight it slid out of 4th when I was down shifting from 5th.

Also another problem has came up about two weeks ago ..

Whenever I shift above 2.5k I feel a strange feeling, and small noise. It's not a grinding sound at all, it's hard to explain, but something clearly isn't working/engaging right down there. My possibilities/questions.

-Could this have anything to do with my trans fluid? I've read stories of people fixing this with a simple fluid change. (I'm using Royal purple because I couldn't find the Redline in stores)

-Maybe my pilot bushing was put in wrong? (I installed it all the way in. Is it supposed to be flush instead?)

-Maybe I didnt seat the throwout bearing properly?

Everything down there is brand new except my clutch fork.

Any thoughts on this?

[oni jake]

Did you install a new pilot bearing when you did your clutch?

[Tedskiii]

Did you install a new pilot bearing when you did your clutch?

Brand new ! Installed the one that came with my clutch kit.

[Tedskiii]

Heard from a few people that royal purple is rubbish .. Going to get the redline, and replace all shifter hardware.

The 2k+ rev problem never happens until after I drive for a good time. So maybe when the trans fluid heats up somethings going wrong?

[jr_ss]

Amsoil is what you want in your trans...

[oni jake]

Update;

Still having the same problem, it happens randomly. Lastnight it slid out of 4th when I was down shifting from 5th.

Can you explain this in more detail? As in you downshifted into 4th, popped the clutch, gave it some gas, then it popped out? Detail it just to make sure it wasn't some sort of engagement issue.


Also another problem has came up about two weeks ago ..

Whenever I shift above 2.5k I feel a strange feeling, and small noise. It's not a grinding sound at all, it's hard to explain, but something clearly isn't working/engaging right down there. My possibilities/questions.

-Could this have anything to do with my trans fluid? I've read stories of people fixing this with a simple fluid change. (I'm using Royal purple because I couldn't find the Redline in stores)

Changing transmission fluid will only help with lowering overall transmission noise and allow for smoother shifting. It won't help with harmonic induced noise. A possibility for what you're hearing could be from the exhaust. The next time you're at 2.5k and you hear that noise, immediately press the clutch in and keep the same RPM. Tell us what you observe.

-Maybe my pilot bushing was put in wrong? (I installed it all the way in. Is it supposed to be flush instead?)

-Maybe I didnt seat the throwout bearing properly?

Everything down there is brand new except my clutch fork.

Any thoughts on this?

As long as you put a new bushing in and lubed it all up, real nice like, there shouldn't be a problem. Take the clutch slave off, take the shift fork boot out, and remove the inspection plate on the bottom of the oil pan. If you can't see any thing wrong, and there isn't pieces of clutch resting on the bottom of the bell housing, I would assume the clutch is not the cause of your problems.

[Tedskiii]

Can you explain this in more detail? As in you downshifted into 4th, popped the clutch, gave it some gas, then it popped out? Detail it just to make sure it wasn't some sort of engagement issue.




Changing transmission fluid will only help with lowering overall transmission noise and allow for smoother shifting. It won't help with harmonic induced noise. A possibility for what you're hearing could be from the exhaust. The next time you're at 2.5k and you hear that noise, immediately press the clutch in and keep the same RPM. Tell us what you observe.



As long as you put a new bushing in and lubed it all up, real nice like, there shouldn't be a problem. Take the clutch slave off, take the shift fork boot out, and remove the inspection plate on the bottom of the oil pan. If you can't see any thing wrong, and there isn't pieces of clutch resting on the bottom of the bell housing, I would assume the clutch is not the cause of your problems.

Well it mainly slides out when I dump the clutch in second hard to initiate. Would you suggest replacing all my shifter hardware aswell? I'm almost positive the stuff is worn/old. Will check out this inspection plate.

Also nobody has answered my question about the pilot bearing. Are you supposed to press it all the way in, or only flush?

[racepar1]

Well it mainly slides out when I dump the clutch in second hard to initiate. Would you suggest replacing all my shifter hardware aswell? I'm almost positive the stuff is worn/old. Will check out this inspection plate.

Also nobody has answered my question about the pilot bearing. Are you supposed to press it all the way in, or only flush?

You just drive the pilot bushing in flush, you should be fine. If you're going to try a different oil I would suggest a GL4 oil like the Amsoil. I have heard just as much complaints as praise of the redline stuff so I would suggest the Amsoil. The gear oil CAN make the trans shift funny or grind into gear, but it CANNOT make the transmission pop out of gear.

The shift boot idea is ridiculous. If the tension on the shifter from the shift boot being installed incorrectly causes your trans to pop-out then there is something wrong with your trans. I've seen a million shift boots backwards and not one of them popped out of gear.

Installing the clutch and/or throwout bearing incorrectly would also not cause popping out. That would also cause funny shifting/grinding alone.

Make sure that the bushing on the tip of your shifter is installed. I have seen those missing before and that could cause the trans to not go completely into gear, which would cause it to pop-out.

Other than that there is NOTHING external to the transmission that would cause it to pop-out. It could be worn shift linkage internal to the trans, but you would have to tear the trans completely apart to fix that. It could be in the synchros, gears, or blocking rings. BUT those issues would require a full rebuild as well.

You're clutching at straws here, the problem is inside the transmision.