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dave2u
11-13-2001, 12:35 PM
I`ve got 3

1.   Sitting in rush hour at big junction in center of town. About 15 cars back from lights. Lights go green. The oncoming traffic starts to pour into our road. I noticed a car coming right for me but figure he`s just overtaking a parked car in his lane. Seconds pass and he`s still heading right for me. Bang!  Hits my wing and slides down the side of car. He had had a blackout brought on by coughing fit.   F**ker got away with it cos he could not have been negligent if he did not know he was going to black out  , out of the blue.   My car was written off.

2. Used to work on a retail park. One morning on way to work 7.30am retail park was dead.   I was in my nissan primera 2.0 litre 16v. ( a few cars ago now)  Torrential rain.   Retail park roads like an ice rink.   I was trying to drift round corners with heavy foot.  Came to one of those flat mini roundabouts you can drive over.  Drifted round that but all wheels completely lost traction.  My heart was in my mouth as the steering wheel had no effect at all.   I slid straight over the r/bout and hit one car into the one beside it.   My bottle went driving round corners for ages after that i dont mind saying.

3. Trucking in 7.5 tonner.  Pulled up having break in lay by.  !!!BUMP!!!  Get out and there`s this tatty old Ford smashed into the back of me with his bonnet over his windscreen.  Apparently he`d had the bonnet TIED down and as he was driving down the motorway at speed it flew up and smashed into the silly f**kers windscreen.

And these silly fu**ers share the same roads as us.

chickenmanq
11-13-2001, 12:50 PM
Only one bad.  Ran right into the back of a Toyota pickup at about 30 mph.  If I would have been in race mode, I would have gotten into the turn lane, instead of hitting him, but didn't think quite that fast.  Totalled the Mazda pickup.  

With the current D21, hit fawn.  Killed it on impact, and it didn't screw up the truck too bad.  Then, hit the fender into the side of the garage while trying to hop up 6" concrete pad.  Made a ramp the day after.

transient
11-13-2001, 12:52 PM
Driving with a friend of mine we were going through a yellow light when a red truck ran his red. We swerved around him and by the time we were through, an old lady had a green and floored it into the side of us (why she did this I will never know, she obviously saw us) So yeah, the freakin fire chief lied and said we had a red light, and my friend got blamed and a few points on his license. Complete and utter BS, but thats what happens when it's a teenager vs an older person.

groundzero
11-13-2001, 01:00 PM
I never got in a accident with my 240, but never say never.  I was in my 1992 Honda Accord driving on a two lane highway, and there was a car right next to me that look so stupid.  It had rims that was smaller than my side mirrors, and the car was lowered to the ground...Me and my friend was laughing so bad that it literally took my mind off the road.  What I didn't know that there was an undercover cop in front of me.  I guess he had an emergency call so what the cop did was he tried to make a U-turn out of nowhere.  I was going like 45mph and wrecked behind him as he was making a turn...I was in shock! The cop got out of the car and ask if I was ok, I couldn't reply because first of all I hit a #### cop!  Till this day I always go through the same highway and get flashbacks.

yenpit
11-13-2001, 01:15 PM
too many to list....id write a book! im surprised me & my friends survived those days.....ditches, trees, rocks, creek beds, sewer covers, cadillacs, dogs, curbs etc etc.

alright! just one.....out in my buddies 69 Opel Kadett Rallye, 3 of us cruisin down near high school, turned into driveway for lower prkg lot, realized gate was locked. no no no....my buddy couldnt just back up, nooooo!!!! he turns left into grass, floors it to get UP the hill to upper prkg lot, starts to slip and spin tires, decides to give up, wips the wheel left to go back down hill. as he starts to go back down hill the car heads steeper and steeper down the hill, he realizes there is a HUGE drainage ditch (concrete!) and tries to brake but the cars slides....down into the ditch, STRAIGHT up and down....BAM!! im in the front seat with my hands holding me away from the dash laughing my ass off. i open the door and it swings open cuz were vertical. we get out, decide to call a buddy to pull us out (by the way it was like 3am), get picked up by him up the street, see 4 cop cars down by car, hit lights, drive into someones backyard to hide, cops go screaming past, "were free!!!", drive down to car to pull out, cops come back and bust us. cop asks what happened, he tells em we were turning around, cop follows tracks in grass with flashlight and laughs "yea, right!" tow truck pulled it out, cops said leave it go home, so we drove off, hid, waited for them to leave, went and got car!! i love tellin that one.....classic!!
sorry...it was a book!

240sxspeedracer1
11-13-2001, 01:19 PM
Well, i've gotten into 1 serious one and lil minor ones with my first car, the cavalier

1. It was raining very heavily and I was in my own lane, minding my own business when some taxi driver that was in front of me by only inches decided to cut in front of me very closely, he obviously didn't see me and i was afraid i was gonna crash so i applied the brakes very heavily and swerved to the right.  I had no traction at all and hit right into some car.  Guess what that car was..a nissan sentra.  That car was f...ing strong, only a lil scratch while the front end of my car was pushed all in and the hood was all tore up.  

the minor ones were my stupid lil mistakes like not breaking early enough and sliding into the car in front of me, i did that like 2 or 3 times.  and one time i side swiped this taxi driver.  One other one i remember was one that i did on purpose so i could get 2g.  I learned a lot in my first car, and now with my second car(the 240 of course) i got to look out for drivers like i used to be.  

whateverjames
11-13-2001, 01:25 PM
when i first got my 240sx, i was driving to my friend's house and it got done raining an hour ago. i was doing about 70mph in the slow lane and i was coming up on some cars so i swerved over to the fast lane, as i was straighting out the wheel, the back end kicked out (threads were showing on the tires). i must kicked the back end out about 5 times going from one side of the highway to the other at 70mph. &nbsp;this was a long time ago, thank god for learning the basics on how to drift on gran turismo. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; welll, it wasn't an accident, but i was a foot away from the walls every time i drifted over <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;

i have hit someone before though, there was a hillbilly in a ford pickup blasting 2pac and i couldn't help but kinda stare and laugh, then BOOM ran into the van in front of me at 5mph. i got out and started cussing, in case he wanted to kick my ass he would be a little intimidated. well, the guy never got out of his van, so i went up to the window and he got out and said...uhhh. you ok bud? i said yeah......''#$*&amp;^#*&amp;$#*&quot; &nbsp;looked at my bumper and some paint chips fell off, looked at his van and the whole bumper was caved in, he looked at me and said, &nbsp;uhhhh don't worry about it! jumped in his van and took off, i though hey....ok! i guess he wasn't insured or something. even though it was my fault, if the cops were involved, he'd be screwed. &nbsp;and it turns out i was on my way to get black paint for my boss's truck so the missing paint on my bumper was no big deal, plus it was screwed up anyways.

Gold240se
11-13-2001, 02:52 PM
Thats great, just make sure they don't get your plates and try to play it off like a hit and run later. &nbsp;

dave2u
11-13-2001, 04:11 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from yenpit on 1:15 pm on Nov. 13, 2001
too many to list....id write a book! im surprised me &amp; my friends survived those days.....ditches, trees, rocks, creek beds, sewer covers, cadillacs, dogs, curbs etc etc.

alright! just one.....out in my buddies 69 Opel Kadett Rallye, 3 of us cruisin down near high school, turned into driveway for lower prkg lot, realized gate was locked. no no no....my buddy couldnt just back up, nooooo!!!! he turns left into grass, floors it to get UP the hill to upper prkg lot, starts to slip and spin tires, decides to give up, wips the wheel left to go back down hill. as he starts to go back down hill the car heads steeper and steeper down the hill, he realizes there is a HUGE drainage ditch (concrete!) and tries to brake but the cars slides....down into the ditch, STRAIGHT up and down....BAM!! im in the front seat with my hands holding me away from the dash laughing my ass off. i open the door and it swings open cuz were vertical. we get out, decide to call a buddy to pull us out (by the way it was like 3am), get picked up by him up the street, see 4 cop cars down by car, hit lights, drive into someones backyard to hide, cops go screaming past, &quot;were free!!!&quot;, drive down to car to pull out, cops come back and bust us. cop asks what happened, he tells em we were turning around, cop follows tracks in grass with flashlight and laughs &quot;yea, right!&quot; tow truck pulled it out, cops said leave it go home, so we drove off, hid, waited for them to leave, went and got car!! i love tellin that one.....classic!!
sorry...it was a book!
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HaHa its true you americans ARE nuts!
I watch you on &quot;Cops&quot; and &quot; Police Videos&quot; &nbsp; and &nbsp; &quot;look at us americans we`re nuts videos&quot; &nbsp;almost everynight but i never quite believed it was all true till now <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
The drunk drivers are the funniest , trying to walk the line ha ha...or did anyone see when the drunk guy was trying to make out he was straight and together when asked to walk the line &nbsp;and in his drunken idiocy he tried to do a somersault along the line and landed right on his neck..haha...you`s are nuts... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> ....sh1t... i`ve just insulted everyone now havent i.......DOH!....I`ll get me coat &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

Zexel
11-13-2001, 04:32 PM
just over a month ago, was in my friends truck. &nbsp;98 F150...had to stop suddenly, but enough time for the car behind us to stop...clearly enough time. &nbsp;but they weren't paying attention and all I heard was screeching. &nbsp;then WABBO! &nbsp;then screeching again, then WABBO!! &nbsp;hit us twice. &nbsp;it was a lil Kia Sephia, so yeah, it was straight totalled. &nbsp;and what made it hit us twice, was a huge duly hitting them after they hit us. &nbsp;they had about 5 ft. of car. &nbsp;just ruined my friends rear bumper. &nbsp;luckily, it was &nbsp;steel bumper. &nbsp;then my brother rear-ended some girl. &nbsp;did all the harm to his car, and ZERO to hers. &nbsp;none what so ever. &nbsp;but those are just 2 that I've been in.

yenpit
11-13-2001, 04:46 PM
how bout this one dave2u....same car, same friends, cruisin God-knows-where, buddy makes a left and starts bangin the gears, up a slight hill to the left doin 60mph or so, i reach over and grab the bottom of his steering wheel and HOLD it so he cant steer out of turn (yes i was REAL obnoxious back then!), he pulls hard realizing im holding on, he starts laughing and cussin, i let go, cuz hes pullin hard he mistakenly wips the wheel the other way, we start to slide, he overcorrects and slides the other way (still doin 50-60), tail end comes round, he catches it goin backwards but direction of car is too far off road, we jump curb backwards and land in a ditch missing a tree by inches! bent rim, flat tire and bent axle! we walked home approx 5 miles at 2am (after he pounded me), stole my parents station wagon and a big rope, get there and tie up, cop pulls up to see what happened, told her we had a flat lost control and spun, she laughed and left. we towed car to his place and he fixed it next day!
wanna hear how we TOTALED it...???

dave2u
11-13-2001, 04:55 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from yenpit on 4:46 pm on Nov. 13, 2001
how bout this one dave2u....same car, same friends, cruisin God-knows-where, buddy makes a left and starts bangin the gears, up a slight hill to the left doin 60mph or so, i reach over and grab the bottom of his steering wheel and HOLD it so he cant steer out of turn (yes i was REAL obnoxious back then!), he pulls hard realizing im holding on, he starts laughing and cussin, i let go, cuz hes pullin hard he mistakenly wips the wheel the other way, we start to slide, he overcorrects and slides the other way (still doin 50-60), tail end comes round, he catches it goin backwards but direction of car is too far off road, we jump curb backwards and land in a ditch missing a tree by inches! bent rim, flat tire and bent axle! we walked home approx 5 miles at 2am (after he pounded me), stole my parents station wagon and a big rope, get there and tie up, cop pulls up to see what happened, told her we had a flat lost control and spun, she laughed and left. we towed car to his place and he fixed it next day!
wanna hear how we TOTALED it...???</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

No <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

But your going to tell me anyway aren`t ya <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

yenpit
11-13-2001, 04:58 PM
not if u dont wanna hear it.....................:(

transient
11-13-2001, 05:01 PM
heh, you've got some good stories. Btw... dave... I've seen some pretty crazy things over by you too, what about the white van man? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Tuck&Poke
11-13-2001, 05:02 PM
me and my friends were going to diff little hangouts where people show off theyre cars and on the way to one of them my friend crashed. &nbsp;we were racing and we were infront we were in a merge lane so we had to change lanes and my friend behind me tried to pass us but he nicked our bumper on the left rear corner. &nbsp;it sent him spining counterclock wise and his right passenger door hit two royal palm trees (i live in miami) he completely stipped them and his car was on the opposite side of the rode with his side facing oncoming traffic. &nbsp;a white pickup didnt have enough time to stop and hit him at about 60mph. &nbsp;that sent him rolling and he landed on his wheels after abuot 3 flips (im watchin this through the rear view mirror) we quickly made a u-turn and got to his car. &nbsp;he was alive and concious but he couldnt move all that moved were his eyes as he looked at us. &nbsp;we called the ambulance and just started talking to him till he passed away. &nbsp;when the ambulance got here he was dead for like 3min. &nbsp;brings a tear to my eye everytime i remember his face and how much pain he had.

dave2u
11-13-2001, 05:03 PM
hey you`ve gotta tell us now we`re all in suspense!
Dont tell me your mates driving along and you cover his eyes and mouth so he cant breathe or see and you hit a wall <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

yenpit
11-13-2001, 05:06 PM
uuuuhhh, no.

dave2u
11-13-2001, 05:16 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from transient on 5<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>1 pm on Nov. 13, 2001
heh, you've got some good stories. Btw... dave... I've seen some pretty crazy things over by you too, what about the white van man? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
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Aah white van mans no competition. He`s got bad intentions but he`s too slow and cumbersome. &nbsp;I`m all over white van man like a rash.

Why what have you seen about white van man?
The main thing i thought you would have seen of our brit roads are the Joyrider(car thieves who pinch cars and rag them and burn em when they`re finished) footage. Absolute lunatics !

I was driving home the other month and a joyrider came flying out of a side road in a residential area , no intention of breaking doing about 30+ around the corner with stressed out copper car in close pursuit. He nearly took out the car a few meters in front of me &nbsp;.
You find cars burnt out every night after the little f**kers have finished with them.

dave2u
11-13-2001, 05:23 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from minime686 on 5<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>2 pm on Nov. 13, 2001
me and my friends were going to diff little hangouts where people show off theyre cars and on the way to one of them my friend crashed. we were racing and we were infront we were in a merge lane so we had to change lanes and my friend behind me tried to pass us but he nicked our bumper on the left rear corner. it sent him spining counterclock wise and his right passenger door hit two royal palm trees (i live in miami) he completely stipped them and his car was on the opposite side of the rode with his side facing oncoming traffic. a white pickup didnt have enough time to stop and hit him at about 60mph. that sent him rolling and he landed on his wheels after abuot 3 flips (im watchin this through the rear view mirror) we quickly made a u-turn and got to his car. he was alive and concious but he couldnt move all that moved were his eyes as he looked at us. we called the ambulance and just started talking to him till he passed away. when the ambulance got here he was dead for like 3min. brings a tear to my eye everytime i remember his face and how much pain he had.
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(whistles) Bummer!
Your not going to forget something like that in a hurry!

Tuck&Poke
11-13-2001, 05:29 PM
nope, worst part is i see it every day (old lady's an accident reconstuctionist) &nbsp;you see some freaky ish

yenpit
11-13-2001, 05:34 PM
this story saddens me cuz it was a great car.
we were out cruisin God-knows-where doin lawn jobs and four wheelin in the same car with the same friends....(geez THEY got me in a lot of trouble!!), i was drivin his car back from the bars (kids, dont drink &amp; drive) cuz i was in the best condition, at one point he slurred he wanted to drive, so i let him (kids, dont let ur friends drive drunk) cuz it was his car, he went flyin up this street, at the top of the hill was a long grassy area along the road, doin 30-35 he moves into grass, reaches down to the emergency brake, im thinkin cool were gonna spin out in the grass, but b4 he pulled the handle....BAAAMMMMM!!!!! the car makes a dead stop!
my feet came up cuz the floor pan bent, i saw something fly out over the hood, looked over at him laughing cuz we didnt know what happened, looked back out front, reached out in front of me waving my hands around, realized it was the windshield that popped out of the car and flew 20 ft, he saw me flailin my arms, started laughin hysterically, turned on the windshield wipers....they flopped IN the car movin back &amp; forth, we're laughin, the car is filling up with smoke, our other buddy (who i saw out of corner of my eye bouncing off the front seats when we hit!!) was screaming to get out...&quot;the cars gonna blow up!!&quot; we jumped put rollin in the grass laughin realizing that the smoke was just antifreeze and oil spillin all over the headers and exhaust!!!
what happened u ask..?? when the tow truck pulled the car away (after he laughed at us cuz we always called him to pull us out of ditches!) there was a sewer/manhole cover level with the grass but the ground dipped around it. he had hit the f**kin thing dead center of the front subframe and bent the whole thing back under the car! towed car home and finished it off with a brick on the accelerator pedal until it locked up. what a GREAT car that was. rest in rusty peace!

yenpit
11-13-2001, 05:50 PM
sorry guys. ive got nasty ones too....thought id keep it fun. minime, theres nothin like seein someone in pain, its hard to forget, especially a friend. &nbsp;

ZeroGS14
11-13-2001, 05:51 PM
One I was in was as I was getting onto the highway and the onramp went downhill and just before getting to the highways it banks and goes to the left...well it was night time and was getting on the hightway...haulling ass like an idiot..just as I got to the bank I saw that there was a broken sprinkler that had sprayed water onto the road...so ya know how that goes...hauling ass rwd water sharp turn....endded up into a few 360's hit the side curb chunked out the curb slid up the embankment cracking my side skirts ripping off the molded rear valances cracked the front bumper and tweaked out my entire rear cross member oh and crushed my exhaust and bent the muffler....all I could say was that was expensive =X

11-14-2001, 07:27 PM
None im my 240, but Sentra had 3.

1. &nbsp;Slid on ice into back of an old civic, new headlights and straiten bumper.

2. &nbsp;Before the last one could be fixed someone in a El Camino backed into the left front, put a 2&quot; gash in the fender. &nbsp;No one was in the car and the El Camino took off, gave the police the plates whith many witnesses but the police did nothing.

3. &nbsp;Porshe 924 ran red light and hit the passenger side totalling the car.

my240likenoother
11-14-2001, 07:48 PM
last year the day beforei was taking the car off the road for the winter
i was driveing to my G/F house a honda civic tred to pass me on the back roads and i wouldnt let him so i drop it into 3rd to speed ahead and start to drift over the line to let him know to back off and as i was moving over he was still pushing so he cought the rear weel and spun me 180 f*cked up the drivers side 1/4 and the door
than he took off that bastard i had $1000 wourth of damage

drifterx
11-14-2001, 08:29 PM
i been rear ended too many times........
once was in my boss's lexus SC400... ouch.... was he pissed...... over $7000 in damage and the whole back end was smashed.......

i saw a pretty nasty one...... a car got fishtailed towards the left, hit the wall, bounced back upside down and twirling about 4 feet off the ground, and bounce like a ball across the 4 lanes on highway, get clipped by another car and bounce back the other way........
i was in the car my dad was driving and it happened all infront of us, and the car just missed us when it bounced back......
boy was it scary and soooooo cool.....
i wonder did they die... i was only 15 at the time

11-14-2001, 09:15 PM
when i still had my civic i was going like 1 mph and at a stoplight stop and hitted this car in front of me..it was big ass old junky lookin mofo truck...no damage when i got out i was polite to the guy and likewise...we observed damages...and there was none...so he took down my plates, in which i didn't know...a month later my insurance rates skyrocketed i got into a lot of trouble wiht my insurance company for not reporting this..my insurance company ended up payin this guy 2 grand....man i was so #### piss...i literally cruise the streets of my city found this guy's car and other NICER cars of his and yeah you all know the rest...i had a lil bit of fun.....new paint job, new engine, new tires, and new windows....oh yeah was it sweet....

misnomer
11-15-2001, 02:00 AM
####, I must be a kickass driver, only one accident and it doesn't count <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> Before I got my license, my sister had me start her car and back it out of the garage before she drove me into school. So, I got used to doing this. Once I kinda fergot to look behind me and tapped my other sister's volvo. Scraped some mud off of her bumper <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

I did see a pretty narsty one driving back from LA way back when. A volvo lost control for one reason or another on a busy roard at ~50 MPH, spun 3x, starting in the slow lane and ending up the wrong way against the median barrier. #### lucky it didn't hit another car. Nobody was hurt.

Another one was downright hilarious, a seven car pileup on my way back from lunch at school. Pedestrian crossing the road, not everybody stopped. I noticed the ped way back, so I put some distance, but the truck in front of me didn't. I hear squeeling and see some smoke at his back tires, then he hit the car in front of him into another truck into a police car, into a car in front of that, and another in front of that. Car was rearended in the other lane too. I'd imagine one of the closer cars already hit somebody, 'cause I don't think that truck would have pushed so much mass from 30 MPH. Oh well, at least it didn't take long for a cop to get there <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Today I almost lost the front end of my car to a Caddy when he pulled onto the highway right in front of me. I got within three feet of the side of that car before stopping, and he just sorta freezed. . . I'm glad I'm just that good <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

teamcapsule
11-15-2001, 02:22 AM
Both were in my previous car.

Was driving quite slowly around 50km/h on a rainy day, behind a BMW. Suddenly the beemer stops for a pedestrian, I slam the brakes and slide right into his rearbumper... damage: F-ed hood, F-ed grill

Second accident, 2 weeks later!!!

6 am in the morning, just came back from clubbing, driving my friends home. Rainy again, going about 100km/h (62mph) when the friends suddenly tell me to take a very sharp turn. Me being the idiot, take it at 100km/h, realize it's too fast, slam on the brakes again and start doing a 360° turn. Bump into the guardrails again, front-end totally F-ed up. But still able to drive home.

Result: traumatized by driving in the rain, nowadays I'm driving very very very carefully in the rain, especially with a FR car like the S14

9524tee
11-21-2001, 02:41 AM
got sideways in my previous car it was a 87 celica back shock mysteriously bent throwing me the opposite way into the side of a solid rock cliff at 60 ... it hurt bad...